#31: The Girls Are Fighting
Heather and Zoe are finally back together and catching up on everything. From Zoe's sober trip to Portugal (and a public cry she did not plan for) to the internet's latest feud, the girls talk jealousy, growing pains, and why women in media deserve better. They also get real about what it means to level up in sobriety, handle criticism without spiraling, and stay grounded during the holiday season.
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The Girls Are Fighting Transcript
Heather: [00:00:00] This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening
Hi guys. Hello, I'm back. Welcome back to Girl Undrunk. I'm Heather. And I'm Zoe. And Zoe's back. I'm back. We're back together again. Thank God. That was a long time. Yeah. How are you? It just seems like my hands are wet. It's okay.
Zoe: I feel like I wasn't even there. Like, you know, it feels like it was a dream. It was long, but
Heather: now that I'm back, I'm like, oh, did that even happen?
Yeah. You know, I know it's, it's like getting on a plane, like being able to just be in two different places in the same day. Mm-hmm. Feels simmy. It feels not real. That's my phone. [00:01:00] How dare you have your phone on. I'm so sorry. How dare you. I'm sorry. Um, okay. How is, I mean, it's been, we have been kind of texting, but not super much.
I super much, yeah. I wanted to just let you like have your vacation. Mm-hmm. And like I figured if there was information you wanted to share, you'd share it with me, but Yeah. And I also wanted to like, hear all about it here with everybody else. I know I told you like some things without
Zoe: any,
Heather: um, detail details about what the fuck actually happens.
And I didn't like, I didn't like pry. Yeah. Because I was like, she'll tell me when she wants to. Mm-hmm. And it's probably enough to tell it on the podcast. So let's do that. Yeah. How is your mental health?
Zoe: How is my mental health? I mean, it's so weird coming back from a vacation. Yeah. Especially one that you did sober.
Um, I think it's obviously bittersweet to come back. Mm-hmm. Because I'm happy to see you. I'm happy to have so much going on with the podcast. Yeah. And obviously I missed my friends, but. [00:02:00] God, that was so nice. Yeah. Like being away and just not having anything to do. Yeah. Except for like explore and you're like was so much fun.
Heather: You're like, when you go on vacation, you're like up and going every day. Right?
Zoe: I was up and going. Yeah. Every single day, which is kind of crazy. Like next time I think I'll have to plan more of a chill day throughout. Yeah. My vacation, well if you vacation with me, there will be at least three like pool days.
Yeah. Which I water days I think will be more mandatory, but since I was like in Portugal and Italy, I needed to see all the little pockets. But yeah, it was worth it. But definitely didn't really chill much. No. Um, but that's okay. That's okay. You sleep when you're dead. I was thinking when I was on vacation, I was like.
Eating an ice cream with my boyfriend. I was just thinking to myself like, if I could just drop everything and stay here, would I?
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And at first I was like, fuck yeah, I would. Yeah. But then I thought about it and I was like, no, I wouldn't. Because that's what a vacation is, right? Like you get to [00:03:00] appreciate the vacation so that
Heather: you have something to go and vacation for, you know?
Yeah, that's true. You like wanna be longing for something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna go somewhere. I got a little bit jealousy. Fomo. Yeah. Actually I got a little jealousy. Fomo. Just before you left. Mm-hmm. Like when I left the clinic. Mm-hmm. And we were like saying goodbye. I was like, Ugh. Like I wanna go.
Mm-hmm. On a trip with my boyfriend, but then like immediately I was like, it's fine. It's fine. Yeah. Like everyone's on their own timeline. Yeah. Like it literally is fine and whatever. But no, it looked really fun. Yeah.
Zoe: I guess like coming back. I feel still in like a vacation haze. So I think everything's still like really good.
Like going to my meeting mm-hmm. On Wednesday was so awesome. I just felt like on cloud nine coming. Yeah. Like home from that meeting, I was like, ah,
Heather: I'm amazing. Yeah. Sobriety's amazing. Yeah. Oh, you had the best time you can remember at all? Yeah, it's
Zoe: the best. And I think just going back to the meeting after not being there for like [00:04:00] two or three weeks was just like, I didn't realize that I missed it.
Okay. Did you miss it when you were there? No. Okay. But then like when I went on Wednesday, I was like, oh, thank God I am back. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that was crazy. Back to your people. Yeah. It's
Heather: so nice. It's nice that it's like a tether you can come back to. Mm-hmm. Um, what about your boyfriend? Did he feel at all like he was Oh, he doesn't go to, does he go to meetings?
Zoe: No. Okay. Well, he
Heather: does go to some
Zoe: in. Where he's living.
Heather: Yeah,
Zoe: but they're not, do you think he's gonna start coming to your meetings or do you want that to be separate? I want it to be separate. Yeah. I think he can come to my meetings if he wants to. Mm-hmm. But he's gonna have to find like his own meeting as well.
Heather: Okay. I guess I wonder that like yeah, if, 'cause a lot of addicts are dating each other. Yeah. Is that kind of a thing that they suggest? Like go to different meetings?
Zoe: Yeah, they suggest that, but a lot of people end up going to the same fucking meeting. Yeah. Because they don't wanna separate but codependent.
That's, you go to, you
Heather: go to AA and then you go to Copa. No. Coda. Coda. Coda. Codependence Anonymous. Which is
Zoe: funny because, have you been to the club called Coda?
Heather: No.
Zoe: [00:05:00] No. I like that club. Is it a K? No, it's CODA. Oh, where is it? Where is it? It's
Heather: Bath. I don't, I went to Bathurst. I don't think I went to any clubs in Toronto to be honest with you.
Except for apartment
Zoe: Bathurst and Bloor. I think anyways. I think my mental health is still at a eight. Okay. What was it in Portugal? Portugal 10. It was a 10 or 10. 10 every day. Like, that's okay. Except
Heather: for the day that someone
Zoe: made
Heather: me cry.
Zoe: Yeah. But we'll get to that. We'll get into it. Yeah.
Heather: Oh, I'm so glad you're back.
I am. I My mental's good. Yeah. I've been like, you've
Zoe: been doing good without me. And I'm moving around. Really, really proud of you. Like when I was in the bathroom downstairs, I was like, Ugh, Heather just seems so happy and like confident and put together. You've like,
Heather: you've been leveling up. Thank you.
While I've been gone and I'm really happy. Well, I think that's what happens when like, one of your lifelines goes away. Mm-hmm. You're like, and now I just have to pick it up a little bit. Mm-hmm. And not crumble. Mm-hmm. But no, [00:06:00] it's been, it's been good. It's like it's, I feel like it's been good to have a, uh, not that I ever want separation from you, but it's been like since you've been gone mm-hmm.
To see how much has happened. Mm-hmm. Coming back into it is so nice. Mm-hmm. It's crazy. Is really cool. It's getting crazy. Yeah. I love you guys. I love you on Drunkies. I know. I had a moment last week I was in, I was at hail after, um, Pilates. Mm-hmm. And someone messaged me this thing. And it was about like their parent or like being, growing up with like a parent with an addiction and like, just like they love us talking about it.
Mm-hmm. And I was just like sitting in this coffee shop having such a good manic morning. Mm-hmm. And I like started to cry. Mm-hmm. Like in the, I'm like, oh my God. Like mm-hmm. I, this is all I've ever wanted. I just want people to feel like they can share their story when they need to. 'cause it's always so intense.
Yeah. Anytime we get a message, it's like, this is what happened to me. And you're like,
Zoe: fuck.
Heather: You're like, okay, God, are you
Zoe: sure you wanna tell people that? Yeah. I know. I don't realize that how open we are. Oh my God. 'cause like, [00:07:00] I think I'm so used to now talking about my life in such detail. Yeah. Vulgar that it doesn't even register.
No. That it's intense that we're saying all this stuff, but,
Heather: well, Anne was here yesterday or the day before or whatever the fuck. And we were talking about the Cody episode. Mm-hmm. And Cody and his meth addiction and. Ian's partner. Mm-hmm. Was walking through and like hearing little bits and pieces and they were both saying like, it's interesting how casual they're talking about meth.
And it kind of took me aback a bit and I was like, is that wrong? Is it encouraging people to do drugs? Then I was like, no, I think it's just like a really accessible way. Mm-hmm. To talk about drugs and addiction. Yeah. Yeah. Like meth is fucking crazy, but like I'm sitting in front of you and you did it.
And you did it. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't look like you did it either. That's the other thing. And that's
Zoe: the crazy part. And I think, like I was talking to my sponsee yesterday about like crazy shit I would've done that I did in the past. And she was like, I can't picture you doing anything like that. I know, because you're [00:08:00] just like, so put together now.
Yeah. And I'm like, no, that's. Kind of the whole point. Yeah. Like,
Heather: yeah,
Zoe: being sober, you don't look like you were, or people don't think that you could have done half the shit you did. No,
Heather: but it really, like we say this all the time, like addiction just really doesn't discriminate. No. Like it comes from all of us.
Any one of us. Any one of us. What are we drinking? Okay, this is, what did we call this? We called this the, we called this the autumn lemon bal. The almond Lemon balm. Thank you. Autumn. What did I say? Almond? I said almond. I think you did. Sorry, I'm drunk. Obviously this is the autumn lemon balm. It's starting to look a little weird.
Well, it's the apple. There's an apple slice in here that's slice in
Zoe: it.
Heather: That's dried.
Zoe: That's dried. And it looks like an uncircumcised penis.
Heather: It does. Or like the circumcised part. Yeah, that's what it looks like. My friend circumcised her baby on her kitchen table. What is that legal? She didn't do it. The rabbi did it, but Oh, okay.
I was like.
Zoe: Are we circumcising our kids anymore? So, and then do [00:09:00] they like cook after that on kids? Yeah. They like, they like
Heather: eat dinner at the table. That seems so crazy. After, after like, doing surgery on your baby. Now listen, I don't have a baby. If I did have a baby and it was a boy, I don't think I'm circumcising my boy.
Interestings. Cheers. Oh, we stop sucker. Sorry. Yeah, this is good. This is just sweetened with organic maple, sap. Mm-hmm. Sap. Yeah. Gives it sap something. Um, I used to love to like, um, walk around at recess and like find the sappy trees and then like, touch, honestly I did that too. I, and then like make it into a little ball.
Yeah. I did that too. Ooh, I like that. Did you put it on your tongue? No.
Zoe: Why
Heather: didn't I do that? I feel like I did that. I feel like I used to put everything in my mouth. Yeah. And I don't know why I used to like, put my tongue on the, the, when we'd go skiing when I was little. Mm-hmm. I'd put the butt on the, of the chair lift and my dad would,
Zoe: yeah.
No, I did that too. It's nice. I did that too.
Heather: God. Um, did we talk about my mental health? Yeah. Yeah. It's fine. Well,
Zoe: what's
Heather: your number? [00:10:00] Uh, okay. I, this is the only way I'm gonna describe it. I feel Okay. I feel like I have a really good grip on the edge of the canyon that I'm hanging onto. Like, I'm good. Like, I feel like, oh, she's dangling, but it's like, it's okay.
Like I have a really good grip. So it's like, the situation is a little crazy. Yeah. But I feel fine.
Zoe: What do you think is like crazy to you? Like just like all the Mm. All the work you have to do now or like,
Heather: no, I think it's start, I think, I think because things are going so well. Yeah. I'm just like, you're scared.
Yeah. I'm scared. Yeah. And I'm like. I'm usually one to, well, I have been historically one to ruin everything. Mm-hmm. Or to bail or to like, have someone get mad at me. That's why like when we have meetings and random cri, tiny criticisms or notes come up in our meetings mm-hmm. I'm like, I want everyone at the end to be like, okay Heather, we all still like you.
Yeah. Because I am just like, is a criticism bad or do you hate me? Like, I get very [00:11:00] weird about it. Yeah.
Zoe: But I think, yeah, communication is all that Yeah. Matters at the end of the day. Yeah. And all we have. Um, that's interesting how you think you're going to sabotage your life though. 'cause I feel like that's a very relatable thing.
Heather: Yeah. I don't know. 'cause I know I'm not drinking. Mm-hmm. I know I'm not doing anything like precarious. Mm-hmm. I'm just like actually working hard. Mm-hmm. But I think because I'm not historically good at stuff, good at projects, good at following through, like I am. I, I'm kind of like, who the fuck let me do this?
Yeah. And not that I'm on my own. Like I have you irian, I have everybody, but I'm, I'm dj, but I'm like, are you guys sure this is Oh, we're sure baby. This is stupid. Like, I'm just a dumb, dumb dummy. Yeah. But, but no, I think, um, I think I'm just like falling into that. Yeah. And I think it's, I think it feels okay, but it's very weird to come from never having responsibility Yeah.
And being a total fucking loser to [00:12:00] now people like. Ask me questions about things. Yeah. And come to me
Zoe: and I'm like, I think it's only gonna get weirder because we're only gonna get more people like commenting on our stuff. That's true. And coming to us for That's true. Opinions and, yeah. Yeah. This is only the beginning, but I think it's gonna become way more natural for us as well.
Yeah. And I feel like I resonate with like, wanting to blow up my life, but I feel like I did that so much when I was drinking. Yeah. That maybe now that I'm sober, I don't go to that. Yeah. Because that was something I used to do when I'm drunk, so I don't wanna do that when I'm sober now.
Heather: Yeah. It's like
Zoe: making that switch, like, oh, I don't do that anymore because I'm sober now.
I used to do that Sure. Yeah. When I was drinking. But this is the switch now that I'm gonna make.
Heather: Yeah. I, it's, it is. The switch, like you said that to me when I would say like, I'm a bad friend, I'm a bad friend. Mm-hmm. You're like, you're not a bad friend. You were a bad friend. Yeah. But like, not anymore. Oh, right.
Okay. The way I conduct my life isn't like I'm a secret addict. Mm-hmm. Like I'm, I'm this person now, but I don't know this [00:13:00] person. This person is so new to me. Mm-hmm. So I'm like, does she get things done? Like, what does she do? But she can
Zoe: literally do whatever you want, you know? Like the world is your fucking oyster.
How cliche is that? And cheesy,
Heather: but I know, but I literally went to Pilates, boxing and like had two meetings in one day the other day. So remember
Zoe: when you said you couldn't do more than one thing a day? Like that was only last year.
Heather: I know you've come so far. And also while I'm doing the second thing.
Yeah. I'm like, oh no. But I'm like, okay, I guess we're just going, yeah. But like, this
Zoe: is crazy. Yeah. I know.
Heather: I think, yeah, it
Zoe: just, it's, it's new obviously. Yeah, but you're doing it. People can do it.
Heather: Dang.
Zoe: You got it.
Heather: Yeah. So I guess let's, nothing really has, well, I think the other thing too that stresses me out, actually we can talk about this, is like the fighting on social media.
Yeah. Between some people and like these celebrities, these podcasters and they're girls. Yeah. The women are fighting. Why is it always
Zoe: like the women podcasters
Heather: that fight? Okay, well let's talk, we, I guess we can just really talk about this. We can [00:14:00] talk
Zoe: about it.
Heather: The, the Alex Cooper, Alex Earl drama and before that
Zoe: it was Alex Cooper and whatever her name was.
Who was her original co-ho Oh, sorry. Sophia Franklin. Sophia. Sophia Franklin. Yeah. I wanted to call her Paige, but No,
Heather: yeah, that would make sense too. Yeah. She looks like a Paige. Yeah, she does. Well she looks like Paige disorder. Yeah, she does. Um, Sophia got engaged. Oh, did
Zoe: she? Like in the summer, I randomly saw it on TikTok.
Thrilling. Yeah, everyone's engaged. Everyone's pregnant. It's happening. Not me, but we're entering breakup season guys. I'm kind of really excited.
Heather: Well, okay, so it, this is cuffing season, but it's also breakup break season, right? Yeah. So it is both can happen both things. Yeah. I think cuffing season it's like, yay, I am gonna cuddle with my boyfriend and you're my boyfriend is like, oh, I don't like her anymore.
Zoe: I think a lot of the time people expect to be cuffed around this time, but it never actually happens. No.
Heather: You know, I feel like this is like the most uncuffing time. Yeah. 'cause it also goes from summer crazy to cold so quickly. Mm-hmm. So I feel like there's no time. No. Do you want a little dating update for me?
Yes. There are [00:15:00] none. I told a guy on Hinge the other day to ask me out. For next week, because he was like, whatcha are doing today? And I was like, today? Yeah. I said, today's crazy. Yeah. I said, today's crazy, but you can take me out next week. Yeah. And then he hasn't responded. And then there was another guy that I was talking to last week, I was at the cottage and we kind of went back and forth for a day and I was like, he was like, what are you looking for on these apps?
And I was like, honestly, like being cool girl. And honestly how I feel, I'm like, I'm not looking for anything super serious or super committed. I kind of just wanna like have fun and date and see what happens. Mm-hmm. And that's a great way of saying like, I'll date and then if we like each other we can be committed.
Whatever. Yeah. But then he said, thank you for your honesty, and then unmatched me immediately.
Zoe: And
Heather: like that's so confusing to me. Yeah. Because I feel like most guys love that. Well, I
Zoe: response,
Heather: I think I'm just like under the assumption that all guys wanna have sex all the time. And so I'm like, are you okay?
Maybe the guys are wanting to date you for marriage, Heather? I mean, I think he was, he was.
Zoe: [00:16:00] So,
Heather: I think he was probably like 34. And I'm like, okay, you know what? At first I was like, Ugh, annoying. And then I was like. This guy's looking for his wife. That's a good prerogative. That's fine. That is good on him.
Yeah. But like, that's not
Zoe: what you're looking for. That's not what I'm looking for. And that's fine. That's fine. Um, we'll have more dating updates, hopefully next time. Yeah. I've changed my hinge. I'll go through the apps with you tonight. Thank you. Yeah, let's do that. Thank you. Maybe we can make a TikTok about that.
Heather: Yeah. Zoe does find me dates. I do. We were gonna talk about Alex. Alex, yeah. Uh, the Alex's. Mm-hmm. I, um, I, I watch Dancing With the Stars, so obviously Alex, you watch Dancing With the Stars. Yeah, I do. I watch it. I'm watching it this season. Yeah. I, I like took a big break from it, but it's, it's so good. I mean, I just love it and I love Whitney from Yeah.
Mormons,
Zoe: my grandma and I used to watch Dancing With the Stars and I'm gonna go to Oakville tomorrow. Are you gonna watch it? And I think I'm gonna watch a little bit with her. Yeah,
Heather: you'll
Zoe: love it. It's a great season. I'm sure she loves Robert Irwin. She does, yeah. There was another one she mentioned, a boy or a girl, a, I think it was two boys that she likes.[00:17:00]
Interesting.
Heather: Two men.
Zoe: But no, she was saying that Robert looks very handsome. Oh. And doesn't look like he's 21.
Heather: No, he is so cute. Yeah, he's really, I mean, he's got like the perfect like sad story. Yeah. He is just like a legacy. Yeah. I love him. But Whitney, better winner. I'm gonna throw the TV right out the window.
So Whitney and her husband are still together. Did they ever break up? No, no, no. They're in a very gorgeous lavender marriage and it's one that I aspire to. You don't think they have sex? I think they do have sex. Oh, you think they do have sex? They have a thousand children. I think they have like three kids.
Oh shit. But yeah, I think they have sex. I also don't, I don't think he's gay. I think I get your jokes after the fact
Zoe: because you, you say the joke. What did I say so fast? They have a million kids. They have like three kids. Yeah, they have
Heather: three
Zoe: kids. They're
Mormon.
Heather: Yeah. He was like, you ain't really be gay if you're Mormon.
Like you have to make the choice. I think he must be bi though, right? His mannerisms.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But that's like what I'm attracted to.
Zoe: Yes. And that's another thing, like we are [00:18:00] attracted to bi men.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. Like a lot. Because they're not so scary. They are not scary. That's why I used to only watch like lesbian porn because it was like, not scary.
Mind you, I would like pray to Jesus that I wasn't gay at like 11 years old lying in my bed after watching lesbian porn. So funny. But now I know. It was just more accessible to me. Like our podcast, um, I, um, the Alex's, Alex's, sorry, everybody. So I'm watching Dancing with Stars. Alex Earl's first dance was to Britney Spear as a circus.
Yes. Yeah. I saw
Zoe: that on TikTok. 'cause it was the first one and I wanted to see how she did.
Heather: And then she had like posted something about like, I don't know, there was like a comment about why the Alexes weren't doing whatever. And I feel like Alex Earl gave like a pretty political answer. Mm-hmm. Like a pretty like PR.
Something and then Alex Cooper went back and like said the same thing or like made a comment on her thing about that. Mm-hmm. But then just did a TikTok I'm assuming, for what? What were they doing?
Zoe: They were in like Vegas for some [00:19:00] sort of probably brand event. Yeah. For unwell. And then they made like a music video to the song circus.
Yeah. And I just think like, I don't know what happened. I really do wanna know. I think one day we will find out. Yeah. Someone will write an expose. Yeah. But I, from what I would assume is Alex Cooper is maybe upset that Alex Earl's whole brand is what Alex Cooper was. Mm. Like she stole Alex Cooper's whole thing was like the party girl.
Like Alex Earl is basically the younger version of Alex Cooper. Yeah, you. Hundred percent. And I can see that that's maybe why Alex. Cooper wanted to grab her. Yeah. And take her under her belt so that she could profit from her as well.
Heather: Yeah, I do think that. And then
Zoe: something must have happened.
Heather: Yeah.
Probably something like Alex Cooper
Zoe: definitely like just shuts people out as we know from Sophia.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Alex Cooper has such like male energy that it doesn't, what she's doing [00:20:00] now doesn't seem genuine as to like what she used to do a couple years ago. I only watch her podcast now if Yeah. Big celebrities are on it.
Yeah. Like I watched the Cardi B and I just watched the Kim k Kardashian. Oh. I
Heather: didn't watch it. Is it good?
Zoe: Honestly, nothing really is said. Yeah. Like I saw a TikTok being like, oh, like of course this is Kim k only did this podcast to stay relevant. Mm-hmm. And Alex Earl or Alex Cooper only got her on to stay relevant as well.
Yeah. You'll, they both use each other. Nothing really was said throughout the whole podcast,
Heather: I think. I feel like, okay. Alex Earl is really young. Yeah. She's like 23 or something, right? Yeah. She's a child. I it like, feels like, obviously we don't know exactly what happened, but it does feel like jealousy.
Yeah. It feels like jealousy. It feels to me like there is not enough space Yeah. For women and there's so much fucking space. Yes. But Alex Cooper is like the one, she's like the one female who's like [00:21:00] done this on her own. Like she's just a renegade. And I think especially as a woman mm-hmm. When you get something.
Mm-hmm. Because you've worked your fucking ass off for it. And then other women start to get it too. I think you can go one of two ways. You can either be like, that's amazing, all women, there's room for everyone, like Amy Poer. Mm-hmm. Or you're like, wait, fuck, stop. I'm the best. It's taken me so long to get here in this sea of men, by the way.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like she's had to like. I don't know what the fuck she's been through. Yeah. But she's had to work with these men. Mm-hmm. Starting with Dave Portnoy her whole fucking career. Yeah. So I don't think it's as easy as just being like, yeah, this is great. There's so much room for everyone. I think it probably feels quite threatening in a real way, but also she, like, her whole
Zoe: brand is like, I go to therapy all the time.
I'm such an evolved person. I am. So for the girls. Yeah. And then this is happening and I'm like, what? I know, I, I texted you last night 'cause I was like, no, you texted me saying, promise me we'll [00:22:00] never fight each other like that,
Heather: Alex. Like, treat each other like that because. Whew. It's so scary. Like it really, I'm like, I don't want to ever
Zoe: be, and again, like they, this happened with Alex and Sophia.
Yeah. And now this is happening again with Alex and Alex. Yeah. So who's the problem? It has to be Alex Cooper. Yeah. Come on.
Heather: The common denominator. The common denominator. I do wonder what happens though, when you start to get like famous and you feel like everything can go away in the blink of an eye.
'cause we see that, like Hawk two O is in here for two seconds. Like Yeah. But Alex Cooper is not just gonna go away. Totally. But I bet you as a woman, you do feel like you're always replaceable. There's always someone younger, like, men can do this shit until they're literally old grandpas in the White House.
Yeah. Women, we've always had this rhetoric that like, you know, you hit 35 and then you're done. Mm-hmm. And like, I, I bet you that does, and listen, I'm only giving her empathy just to kind of look at the whole scope, but it, it, it makes sense to me. At the end of the day, she's a woman. Yeah. And [00:23:00] like men aren't really here to support her.
Yeah. And they're the ones who make the rules. Yeah. So it's scary. I get it. I am. I
Zoe: just, I really wanna know what the fuck happened.
Heather: Yeah. And I'm really not happy when the girls are fighting. Me neither. And Charlie X, CX and Taylor Swift are having a thing. And I don't love that. It's just
Zoe: like so confusing because Charlie was clearly not saying anything mean.
Yeah. About Taylor Swift. Charlie was just like, I don't feel great around Taylor Swift. Yeah. 'cause she's such a big person. Yeah. And they're so different that obviously No, they're not gonna be friends. Yeah. Why would Charlie XCX be friends with Taylor Swift? Why would Taylor Swift be friends with Charlie Xtx?
It doesn't make any sense. She's like, you're a cokehead. And everyone's like, what? Like obviously we know that that's not a dis at all. Yeah. You know, also like.
Heather: Are you living under a rock? Yeah. Cocaine is like a major problem. Yeah. Like that's not something to call
Zoe: out. Yeah.
Heather: Weirdo. It's
Zoe: so weird. Either way, it's not even like she called her out because there's so many videos of Charlie at a DJ booth [00:24:00] and just like going underneath the DJ booth to do a line like everyone knows Charlie does drugs like, come on.
Heather: Yeah. It's just juvenile to punch down. Yeah. It's so weird. You're the richest woman in the world and you're like mm-hmm. Other artists, Coke Head. You're like, yeah. If you had said nothing, everyone would've just been like, yeah, no one can touch Taylor Swift. You can say whatever you want about her. And she's like, whatever.
I'll just get another Grammy. Yeah.
Zoe: It's. It seems very immature. Yeah. And yeah. I hate when the girls are fighting. There's enough room for everybody. Charlie and Taylor are such opposite music artists. People are gonna listen to both. Yeah. You know, people don't need to choose which one's better.
Heather: Listen, if there's enough room for the men, there's definitely enough room for the women.
Yeah. Because the things that we're doing are actually like important and relevant. Yeah. And impactful. For sure. So there's room. Um, let's talk about your vacation. Okay. So I guess like, obviously I wanna know all of it, all about it all the time. So I guess like the big things I wanna talk about are like how you were feeling Yeah.
Sober. And were there any [00:25:00] triggers, were there any fights? Were there any kind of like crying moments, moments that we as addicts would be like, you know what, I'm gonna fucking drink about that. Well, so
Zoe: I'll tell you the crying story. Yes. Um, okay. So I sent you a picture of myself crying. Did I do that? Yeah.
Heather: And you posted it on Instagram too, and I was like, did
Zoe: I post it on Instagram? I think the
Heather: next day you were like, I cried yesterday. I'm fine. Oh yeah, I did. Yeah. Story of my
Zoe: life. So we were at the beach, me and my boyfriend, and we saw like a lighthouse on like a cliff at like a lookout point,
Heather: gorgeous
Zoe: from the beach.
And we were like, okay, let's go walk up to this lighthouse. Yeah. So we're walking up and then we see that there's a fortress before the lighthouse that we have to enter into. Mm-hmm. So we're like, okay, let's go into this fortress. Cool. Like amazing. Yeah. I'm wearing my bathing suit and I have a little coverup covering my boobs and I'm walking in and there's [00:26:00] this woman who just looks at me and she's like.
You can't enter in like that. Like you can put some clothes on. Something along the lines of that was said. And I was like, oh, totally. Of course. Okay, no problem. Because I thought that she worked there. Yeah. And I was like, totally, I'm, that's so fair. I go outside, I'm figuring out what I should do with my outfit if I can like put my cover up on over my ass instead.
Yeah, yeah. You know, like Cover my ass maybe is better than my tits. I don't know. I think so. In
Heather: the eyes of God. I think.
Zoe: So. We'll see. And it's not, it's not a church, right? It's just like a fortress. It's a church. The lighthouse. They used to do war there I guess, you know, whatever.
Heather: No, literally like they used to do war there.
They can't handle my ass. What the hell? And like it's a beach
Zoe: town. Like, come on. I
Heather: know.
Zoe: Anyways, I'm trying to figure out what I'm gonna do with my outfit and my boyfriend's looking up if there's a dress code for this place. And he's like, Zoe, there's no dress code. And then I look at her and she's fully a part of like this tour.
She doesn't work there at all. Oh. She's just a person. She's just. [00:27:00] Person. She's like a 50-year-old Portuguese woman. Mm-hmm. And I then at that moment, I get like really mad, I guess. Mm-hmm. Like, oh, she doesn't even fucking work here. Yeah. And she's telling me how to dress. I think the first reaction was like, I'm mad.
Yeah. But then like, I think I got really sad because I felt like I was doing something wrong.
Heather: Mm-hmm. And
Zoe: I don't like being in the wrong, and I don't like being told what to do, I guess. Yeah. Either. Um, so we were gonna go back into the fortress. I was like, fuck it, she isn't work here. Whatever. I changed my, um, cover up, cover up into covering my ass instead of my tits and like, whatever, this is fine.
I go in and then I see that $16 euro. Ah. And I'm like, oh, I don't wanna pay this. I'm like fucking upset. Anyways. Yeah. And so we walk back out. And I'm just like not talking to my boyfriend because I know if I'm [00:28:00] gonna talk to him, I will cry. Yeah. But then eventually he's like, try makes me say something and then I just start bawling and I can't, at that point, I literally can't get over it.
Yeah. You know, I literally can't. I made him pull over to a restroom. Mm-hmm. So that I could cry in a bathroom stall by myself because I knew I couldn't get it fully out with him. Yeah. I needed to like have my moment alone. Yeah. You need to solo girl cry solo, get it out. Yeah. And really reflect on what just happened.
But I think the main triggers were that I don't like being told what to do. I don't like being in the wrong.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: And I don't like when women comment on each other's bodies. Yeah. And what they're fucking wearing. No.
Heather: Women,
Zoe: women, women, women, women. No. I. I, yeah. But throughout all of that, there was not one time that I even thought about drinking.
That didn't even [00:29:00] go through my mind until I was telling someone about this story at the mating. Mm-hmm. And he was like, oh, did you think about drinking at all? And I said, oh, actually, no, no, not at
Heather: all. You're like, I thought about slamming her fucking head into the ground.
Zoe: I didn't even think about that. I was just.
Upset that this is like the world I guess we're living in.
Heather: You know? It's like, yes. It's like the concept of it. Yeah. You're like, I'm mad at literally everybody. Yeah. Yeah. All of you fucking suck. Like I was just trying to enjoy my day mm-hmm. With my boyfriend and look at this fucking thing that doesn't even matter.
Yeah. And you decided to like, insert yourself into my life and say something about the way I was dressed because of what your mm-hmm. Godly opinions like fuck off.
Zoe: And I think it's another thing of like, you never know what someone's going through and you never know how Yeah. Your comment is going to affect that person.
Yeah. So you have to be so mindful what you're saying to strangers. Like, the first thing someone's gonna say to me is commenting on what I'm wearing.
Heather: I know
Zoe: when we're at a beach town, I
Heather: know. So like what also you're commenting on like someone's body too. Yeah. And I know you're [00:30:00] like good with your body.
You don't have body issues, but to me yeah. That would immediately make me so self-conscious. So weird. Like, yeah. 'cause then you're like, yeah. Am I a fucking dumb ass for wearing a bathing suit into this thing? Then you're like, I think that's, it was, I
Zoe: was like, I feel dumb.
Heather: Yeah. That I did this, but then you're like, no, I'm not.
Yeah. Everyone like this is fine. Yeah. Yeah. It's so much, I, I do, I literally just had this whole fucking conversation with Arianne and then with my therapist that like, I do that too. Like I will cry. Yeah. If someone tells me that I've done something wrong or they wanna bring up something to me, I'm like, how fucking dare you.
Yeah. Even have access to me. Talk to me, say anything to me. You don't know what I'm doing. Like you don't know how fuck, like, this is where I go. Yeah. I'm like, I'm working so hard on this. Yeah. I'm not drinking. Do you have like it It goes Yeah. Everywhere. And then I'm like the audacity. Yeah. I think like for an outside listener, just being like told to put some clothes on.
Isn't that upsetting?
Zoe: No. It's really not that big of a deal. But now, but it feels, it [00:31:00] felt so hard. Yeah. Like I was trying to get over it. Yeah. To just enjoy the rest of my day with my boyfriend. Yeah. But I lit that literally ruined the day for at least three hours, which like
Heather: shamed you. Yeah. So it's like that feeling for us, like the shame and the Yeah.
The being told what we can and can't do. Yeah. Is very difficult. Yeah. Like I'm not a fucking baby.
Zoe: Yeah. It was, I knew, well, it was actually really hard because in that moment I did think that I was doing something wrong. Mm-hmm. Very similar I think with the whole family stuff that happened with me. Yeah.
Like that I felt like I did something wrong, but it took me a while to realize like, no, I, I am not in the wrong here. Mm-hmm. This is not my fault. Yeah. This is no one's fault. Actually. This is just a mean comment that a woman said to me and I. Obviously didn't like her reaction. Yeah. And I'm gonna cry about it.
Heather: My therapist said that it takes your nervous system time to catch up to your brain. Mm-hmm. So that like, when you objectively, or like logically think like, I did nothing wrong. Yeah. And this isn't a big deal. Your nervous system doesn't know [00:32:00] that. Yeah. 'cause it was so immediately triggered. Yeah. And then it's scared and it's embarrassed.
Mm-hmm. So even I think I
Zoe: was also embarrassed because like, I don't Yeah. I, me too don't, I don't wanna, like this happened and my boyfriend's sitting right there. Yeah. You know, like, obviously he's not, he doesn't feel a certain way that mm-hmm. I did that. But No, of course not. I'm still gonna feel embarrassed.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. It's like your first trip together. It's just also like when you texted me that I didn't know what happened, but I was like, honestly babe, you've been gone for so long. Mm-hmm. I'm surprised you haven't cried yet. Yeah. Like traveling is so overwhelming. Yeah. Sober or not mind you being sober on a vacation.
It is a lot. Yeah, it is. Because everyone is drinking around you. Yeah. You like know, you're like, I'm in a different place. Could I drink? Like, it's a lot. Well, I think
Zoe: like if I was drunk and that woman said that to me, I would've definitely went off on her and maybe even like, fucking hit her. Who knows?
Yeah. But like, thank God, thank God. But that's another thing someone brought up to me at the meeting. He, she was like, oh, well how did you react to her? Like, what did you say to her? Yeah. And I was like, honestly, I was fine because I'm sober and I don't go [00:33:00] off at people anymore. Yeah. But I'm sure if I was drinking it would've been a totally different story.
Yeah. Um,
Heather: yeah, I know. Uh, it's just, it's really, really hard when, like, I don't know if this is just an addict thing, but. Think addicts who get sober, we really are trying our best.
Zoe: I am trying my best at all times all the time, and I am just when someone tells me. Yeah. Especially I think if it was a man, it probably wouldn't have affected me that hard because like the fact that a woman said that to me is like, Ugh.
Like come on. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah. Ugh. I'm sorry. That would ruin my whole day too. And I'm sure everyone listening is like, yeah, that would fucking ruin my day too. But
Zoe: then like we had dinner plans to celebrate our six month anniversary at this like Michelin guided restaurant. Ooh. So I'm like, is this gonna ruin like the whole fucking dinner too?
Did you do it? We went, okay. Yeah. How was it? Honestly, the restaurant we went to two days prior was better than the Michelin guided spot.
Heather: Is Michelin guided weird if you don't drink?
Zoe: No. Okay. It makes it so much more cheap. [00:34:00] So much cheaper. Oh, sorry. I'm thinking a set menu. I guess we got a set menu, but that you can pay more if you wanted the wine pairing with it.
Okay, okay, okay, okay. Okay.
Heather: Yeah. 'cause I'm like, those are like the things that like we can't go to like wine and food pairings. Yeah. Because they're gonna be like, well just taste the food then. But
Zoe: we, I had that yuzu mocktail that I posted. That's what I posted on Instagram. Okay. Was the yuzu mocktail. And that was like, best thing.
I think that was the best thing. I drank all trip, honestly. It was really fucking good.
Heather: Okay. That's good.
Zoe: Um, that was in Port Portugal. That was in Lagos. What's yuzu? No idea. Okay. I know. I have no idea what yuzu is. Yeah. But it's in multiple things.
Heather: Okays alcohol.
Zoe: Fuck. I imagine. Look, had a great time in Portugal.
Great time. I was in a great mood. That was the best thing I drank. Oh God. Um, yeah. So that was that. Yeah. I cried my boyfriend, we were going outside of the Airbnb. This is in Lisbon. How does he handle your crying? Was he good? So he was good. He understood why I was crying, but I think he just wanted to like.[00:35:00]
The crying. Yeah. And was just trying to get it over with. Yeah. Like, come on girl. Like, okay, you cried. Let's move on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, no, you don't understand. I literally can't move on until something switches in my body. Yeah. To my nervous system. It's probably the nervous system thing. Yeah.
So I think he was pretty patient with me, but throughout the whole rest of the trip, whenever something went wrong, he was like, are you gonna cry about it?
Heather: You're like, you know what, bitch? Yeah. I am in the street in front of all these people and then I'm gonna tell them, you hit me. You listening. See that you listening.
That's what's gonna happen next. But you're a very good sport. Because if someone said that to me, depending on my mood, I might be like, are you fucking kidding? Well, that's the thing. I was like, I knew he was joking about
Zoe: it. Yeah. But I was like, babe, I'm not ready. Yeah. For this comment yet. Yeah. You can say this later.
Yeah. Like, not
Heather: yet. Not yet. Please. That is the worst when someone says something to you and everyone laughs and you're like, God, I know that. That would be funny. Yeah. Tomorrow. Yeah. Like, I can't handle it today. I can't. Okay. But that's really good. And then something else happened.
Zoe: Well, I was gonna say, so my [00:36:00] boy, some of my boyfriend fucked up and closed the Airbnb door not knowing that it locked.
Mm-hmm. So it's not his fault that he didn't know that. And he didn't mean to close the door all the way. He's just a boy. He's just a boy and just a little boy. Airbnb host didn't tell us that it locked automatically either. And we had just gotten in also a boy, probably and a boy, Frederico. He saved us.
He saved us. So he closed the door and didn't realize it locked. And I'm supposed to be getting ready for a bachelorette in like two hours. So obviously I'm pissed. Yeah. But my boyfriend starts screaming, fuck so loudly and multiple times.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: And I realize that that's his way of coping. Yeah. And my way of coping is crying.
Yeah. Which is better. I think it's better. Yeah. Crying is always better than like saying fuck a hundred times and so loudly. I'm like, babe, rage. That's not gonna help.
Heather: Feeling crying and embarrassed like that sucks internally. [00:37:00] Yeah. But rage is really hard to come down from. Yeah. Especially for addicts.
Like it's very hard Yeah. To then regulate yourself in that way. Yeah.
Zoe: Well, I think, and that I, I wanted to be pissed too, but then I saw him being pissed and I was like, fuck, I can't be pissed if he's already pissed. Yeah. So I had to be the chill one being like, okay, it's fine. Like we're gonna get this solved and thank God our Airbnb hosts came and rescued us.
Yeah.
Heather: Thank goodness. I feel like I've given you a lot of practice with that. Well,
Zoe: and
Heather: that's
Zoe: the exact, that's exactly right. When I am frustrated, you calm me down. Do I? Yeah. Oh my God, that's, there was only one instance I think when that happened. Yeah. You're what hap always fine. I. There was one time when I got, I don't remember.
I feel like it wasn't a big deal at all. No. But I get mad over stupid Chis. We just No, no. I don't
Heather: mean, I didn't mean to dismiss that. Yeah. But it was like, yeah.
Zoe: I don't remember
Heather: what that was. Me neither.
Zoe: Me neither. But anyways, yeah. But usually it's the other way around. Usually it's the other way around.
And I have to be very calm. Yeah. And so I feel like me and my [00:38:00] boyfriend did that very well throughout the trip. That's fun. Which is good. Which I think is healthy. Definitely healthy. Um, yin and yang. But yeah, when my, when I arrived in Portugal, let's go back. Mm-hmm. My boyfriend had been there for like five hours.
Okay. And he picked me up from the airport. And he was like, to be honest, Zoe, it's been really hard not drinking. Oh, okay. Because he's also an addict. Yeah. And he was acting a little bit weird in the car and I was like, oh God, this did this man drink.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: It took me everything to not ask him. Yeah. That, because I think I knew in the bottom of my heart that he didn't drink.
Yeah. But you never know. I was like, you never know. And I don't wanna be an idiot who just like, yeah. Doesn't know that he just drank, you know?
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um, but he ended up like being fine after, I think he was just like nervous and stressed because manic, he was feeling triggered throughout like five hours.
Yeah. He didn't even go in to any restaurants for the five hours. He didn't eat any food because Why? He was scared. He was scared [00:39:00] to go in. Aw. Because he was scared he was gonna order something.
Heather: That's really
Zoe: sweet. Such a sweet boy. And then obviously when I had my bachelorette. The bachelorette party to go to.
He was all by himself, but he was fine. He just like went for a run. That's what he does when I leave him. He just runs. Yeah, I
Heather: figured. And then he posted on Instagram, so we all know where he is. It's great. Did you like that one story? Story with the cone on his head? The cone on his head? What's wrong with him?
What is wrong with him? I don't so many things. He's so cute. Did you have any, 'cause this is, well, there's a bunch of things. I was gonna say, this was also his first big trip after getting sober, right?
Zoe: Yeah. Like without his family, I guess. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah. Had he been to Europe since getting sober? No, that was his
Zoe: first Europe trip back.
It's huge though, drinking.
Heather: I knew you guys were gonna be fine, but I was like, oh God, I knew you were gonna be fine. I'm never, and not that I'm worried about him, I just know him less. But I'm like, there's two of you addicts in Portugal. Yeah. Like away for a while. Yeah. Like it's stressful and I fight on vacation.
Yeah. So I'm like, I hope you don't fight. [00:40:00] Yeah. I think
Zoe: like the fights that we had were just. Exhausting based on travel shit. Yeah. You know? Yeah. You have to like, I didn't know where the one kayak spot was. Oh, yeah. And like, oops. Oh my God, you figured it out.
Heather: Well, that's like going to Italy with my sister.
And she's like, okay, so we're getting on the ferry and there's 50,000 ferry companies. Yeah. And you're like, pick one, I guess. Yeah. We're going to Malta. I don't know where Malta is.
Zoe: It's a little island off of some country. Yeah. Must be. We're not good with geography. Remember?
Heather: Remember,
Zoe: remember? Um, yeah. I didn't feel the, okay.
The only time where I was like ooh
Heather: mm-hmm.
Zoe: Was when we were sitting down at the wedding and we have like, everyone has like a wine glass. Yeah. And the servers just come and they're pouring wine into everyone's glasses. Yeah. And she's about to pour wine into mine. And I almost am like, I kind of like. Yeah.
I have to fucking tell her to not Yeah.
Heather: You know, there's like a slight fantasy of like, I'll just, no, I'll just [00:41:00] watch her
Zoe: pour it. And I was like, Ugh, I gotta tell her. Yeah. And then I tell her, and yeah.
Heather: Did you say I'm a sober?
Zoe: I was like, we're not me. We're not gonna be drinking all night. So
Heather: when I went to Italy, you can take
Zoe: away the wine glass.
Heather: Yeah. When I went to Italy with Karen. Oh, that's good. Take it away. Um, we were on the ferry or on like a little boat to get to wherever the fuck we were going. Positano. Mm-hmm. And they were like bumping the YMCA, I guess. 'cause they knew they were Americans everywhere. Oh God. Like this is the song, which literally the worst.
Sure. But anytime it does come on, I'm like, oh, hey, hey. I'm like, this is the song of my people. Really, you know? Yeah. Just gay construction workers, but also they were pouring drinks. Yeah. And I, and he came over to me and he's like, and I was like, oh, I'm sober. Mm-hmm. I'm like, it's gotta be the same word.
Yeah. And he was like, what? And I'm like. I don't drink. Yeah. I tried to say in Spanish and then he like looked at me like disgusted. Yeah. Yeah. And then there was this couple that was beside us and she looked at [00:42:00] her boyfriend or husband or whatever and was like, oh my God. I'm like, really? Yeah. I'm like, it's okay.
Yeah. It's a I know where we're going. Yeah. It's okay. You don't have to drink there. Yeah. But yeah, it's very, um, it's just so common. It's just what we do. It
Zoe: is so common. I think maybe, I don't know. It was nice because a lot of people at the wedding know that I'm sober. Mm-hmm. Like I knew a lot of the people that were there.
Yeah. And a lot of people talk to me about the podcast and are really like, proud of us really, and really love what we're doing. That's good. Um, which was really nice to just talk about the podcast for a little bit and like hype you up too. Aw. And hype us up.
Heather: Yeah. It's really nice. Yeah. I'm like getting better at talking about the podcast.
I know. I feel like I'm like. Kind of get
Zoe: shy when people bring it up. I do too. And they're like, oh yeah, I guess I'm doing this thing. Yeah,
Heather: I know. I do too. And I'm like, I think it's because I don't want anyone to think that I think that I'm the best ever or something. Yeah. Like
Zoe: yeah, we we're. But I [00:43:00] think it's also like we're not doing this to like be famous.
We're doing this to help people. Yeah. So I think it's like a different avenue of going about talking about it.
Heather: Yeah. It's really about like people like us. Yeah. And what we went through. Yeah. But it is like people, like what's it about? I'm like, oh, it's a sobriety podcast. Mm-hmm. This is what mental health.
But I'm like, no, it's my best friend. Zoe and I talk on a podcast about our experiences with alcohol and addiction and other people write in or they come on the pod and tell us their stories. It's like very important. Mm-hmm. To I think like, say it with. Confidence. Confidence. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Because we are confident about it, but it's like, oh, just kidding.
Look, I'm just an addict. I'm an idiot. Don't look at anything I do.
Zoe: Yeah. We gotta, that's an old narrative. More confident about it and be talking about it more, I guess, to get the word out to help more people, right? Yeah. Is what it is. Yeah. I think like the Bachelorette even. Was. Mm-hmm. So much fun. Yeah.
Like,
Heather: [00:44:00] so did you know all those people on the Bachelorette?
Zoe: I knew probably like 25% of them. Oh, they're gonna say 25 people. I'm like, that's too many people. Yeah. There was like 25 people there. So I knew like, probably I knew maybe like 10 to 15,
Heather: maybe. I knew like half of them. Honestly, I feel like the time I'd wanna drink would be like getting ready for the Bachelorette.
Well, and then like right when I get to The Bachelorette and then after that I'm, I don't wanna drink anymore. I'm good.
Zoe: Yeah. My boyfriend was like, so are you nervous for tonight? And I was like, no, I'm not nervous for tonight. Like, what? Dare heck, dare you. Heck like, no. And then we're walking there, he's gonna drop me off and I'm like, babe, I'm nervous.
Yeah. Oh. Like, oh no, I'm scared now. Like, I've been so cool before. Yeah. I didn't know I was gonna be nervous for this. Yeah. I was more, I wasn't nervous because of the drinking of it all. I was more so nervous because I hadn't seen a lot of these people in a while. Yeah. Um. But it was honestly so nice and I think like I forget how capable and how strong I am Yeah.
To like make these conversations and have [00:45:00] these interactions. And then when I get there and I'm like doing the thing of like the small talk and the mm-hmm. Whatever. I'm like, oh yeah. Like I got this. Yeah. You know?
Heather: Yeah. It's nice. It's like you prove to yourself every day Yeah. Almost. That you're like, oh my God, I can do this sober.
Yeah. I'm incredible. Like,
Zoe: yeah. It's nice. And like the thing of I'm sober so I can do anything. Yeah. Like, it doesn't matter that this is gonna be a little bit difficult, like, I can do this. Yeah. Because I'm sober on even, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I think all in all, I'm just very grateful that I could do this trip because I could have never done it if I was drinking.
Never. Yeah. You wouldn't have been allowed on the plane. No, I wouldn't have. And. Even after the wedding, like getting up the next morning. 'cause we ended up going out on Pink Street till 4:00 AM after the wedding. Mm-hmm. I woke up the next morning and I felt hung over and I didn't even drink, you know?
Yeah. Like I was exhausted.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: [00:46:00] And we still got up and like did a whole day. But I was like, I can't, I can't imagine doing this actually hungover. Like I feel hungover because I'm so tired and my feet hurt and like I was partying so much. My way of partying, just dancing and like talking to so many people is exhausting.
Yeah. So it
Heather: really is
Zoe: that
Heather: social battery
Zoe: is very depleted. Yeah. So I was just like, yeah, I could have never. Done it if I was drinking. Mm-hmm. And I'm so happy that I didn't even think about drinking that whole time. And I feel very lucky.
Heather: Yeah. And you got to like hang out and be in Portugal and enjoy it.
Mm-hmm. And not just like go somewhere else to drink where you could literally be anywhere. And
Zoe: I think the thing is too, like traveling with someone who doesn't drink. Mm-hmm. Like my boyfriend is super nice. Like I was even thinking if I did this trip with my family, uh, we would've been at a bar Yeah.
For like at least two to three hours every day. Yeah. And like not doing the things that I wanted to do. Yeah. [00:47:00] So that's even another aspect of like, okay, like I like traveling with sober people who wanna do the same thing that I wanna do. Yeah. Yeah. My parents like to adventure and go out like that as well.
Yeah. But at the end of the day, they wanna be drinking. Yeah. All night long. Yeah. Which just isn't how I live my life.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: So it's so nice to have a sober companion to go with. It's so nice, Andrew,
Heather: you can have sex with. That's so nice. So I didn't,
Zoe: I thought we were gonna have way more sex than we did.
Yeah. Honestly, we had sex once a day and two times when you, for two days we didn't have
Heather: sex. When you said that to me when you were like, we only had sex one, I was like, you only had sex once and then you're like once a day. I'm like, that's plenty. That's good and plenty. Yeah. But like, I just thought like vacations,
Zoe: like so much sex, you know?
I think that's a lot of sex, but I, I guess that is a lot of sex. Yeah. And also. We were there to see stuff. We can have sex whenever we want to. Oh my God.
Heather: A hundred percent. You have sex in the plane [00:48:00] home?
Zoe: We were both waiting for the bathroom and the plane. Yes. And I was like, are you gonna come in with me?
But he didn't.
Heather: That would be the, that getting caught fucking in an in a airplane bathroom. Yeah. Would be so humiliating. I'd rather shit my pants on the plane.
Zoe: I know. It really would be. Yeah. And like I hate that I would be so humiliated. Yeah.
Heather: I think But like I would. No, but I think a little humiliation is good.
'cause I think some things we just shouldn't be doing. I don't know. Why can't we be fucking on a plane? Because then you're gonna have just like any man they want. Yeah. Any man is gonna be fucking on a plane and it's not, the rules are not the same. And one day we will have a private jet and we will be fucking on that plane.
I know that's really exciting. It's really exciting. Exciting. That's my north star. We have to write that down. Throw it into the
Zoe: universe. Yeah. That's how things happen.
Heather: They're gonna be like, oh. Do you feel like the mics are good changed over here? Heather's still whacking the fuck outta it. Sorry,
Zoe: Heather just loves to whack 'em
Heather: all.
I do. Sure. I, um, I don't know what that was. We got a [00:49:00] dm, uh, from this girl and she was talking about the holiday season. Mm-hmm. And she's like, what are we doing? Like, what are we doing? It's Thanksgiving, it's Halloween, it's Christmas. You just went on vacation. It's like all of these vacationy holiday times.
Yeah. And it's getting colder. This is my bread and butter for drinking. I'm like, oh, great. My day ends at three. Mm-hmm. And I just sit on the couch and drink for the rest of the day. Mm. Thanksgiving just happened. Yeah, that was actually really nice. How did
Zoe: you feel about that? Because I didn't really have a Thanksgiving.
I was coming back from my trip on Thanksgiving.
Heather: I, Thanksgiving was a little weird this year with my family. There's just like a lot of emotions going on. Mm-hmm. I think mostly with me, I'm like the most emotional person in the whole world. Mm-hmm. And like, not having something to fall back on, not having like something to drink about.
Mm-hmm. Or something to drink is hard. It it, like I find the family stuff just because
Zoe: family is so much harder than friend stuff. Like it is, it just is.
Heather: And that's kind of like we all come together and [00:50:00] regardless of our like political differences or like our thoughts and like whatever, it's like we can drink together and have fun and watch a movie.
Yeah. And like, not having that, I'm fine. I wasn't craving alcohol, but I'm very aware that it's not. Here because Yeah, my sister and my dad don't drink either. Yeah. Like my dad showed up to the cottage with like, yeah. Two po sport, non-alcoholic wines. Did he buy those? Yeah. I love that. He buys everything.
Everything we talk about. He's like, oh, I got curious. Likers. Like, he loves it. He's our number one fan. I know. He really, he like tasted and he's like, oh, that's really great. That's really nice. I can bring this to a party. It's like, yeah, you're good. But Thanksgiving was good. It is like, it is, I don't know, it's just so easy to like have a coffee in the morning and then rinse that cup out and then put wine into it and then just like have the whole day.
It's interesting
Zoe: that this is like feeling like a bad time for you. Mm-hmm. Like the holiday season, but. In the rooms. This is the busiest time of the year. Like
Heather: [00:51:00] really?
Zoe: Yeah. After summer. Okay. Like this time is when so many people start coming into the rooms to get sober. Okay. This is our busiest season.
This is our busiest season. We've got a come in
Heather: addicts. We've got
Zoe: a lot of welcome stuff. We all
Heather: wear t-shirts. You know where to go. Come on in. Standing room in the back. Get sober. Bring your own lawn chair. Um, yeah, I, uh, that makes sense actually, I guess 'cause it is. Well 'cause
Zoe: I got sober around this time, like, I think what I'm so, my sober date's next week.
Crazy. Yeah. So crazy around this time. Yeah. I was getting, sorry guys. It's insane to me that you got sober before Halloween. Yeah, well, on Halloween in rehab, three years ago on Halloween, I was in rehab. Mm-hmm. Sick as a dog.
Heather: I think
Zoe: I had like a fever or cold or something.
Heather: Were you detoxing or were
Zoe: you I had already detoxed.
Oh, okay. This was like a week maybe into it or maybe two weeks into rehab. Yeah. And I was just like, you were stealing bullshit. Feeling really bad. And I [00:52:00] spent Halloween in my room by myself 'cause I didn't wanna get anyone sick. And people, all of my rehab friends brought me candy to my door and like signed my door on a piece of paper or something.
It was really cute. I
Heather: was about to say, I wish that my building had more kids so we could do Halloween, but then I immediately thought like, oh God. Yeah. Like, thank God. Also, what am I gonna do? Have knocks on my door all night. That's insane. No. And like you're going to bed at seven 30. Yeah. I can't just have the children.
Yeah. Tropes, traip. Sing around the the hallways. No, it's un unsafe. Unsafe. It's noise pollution.
Zoe: Well, on Halloween we're gonna go to a house party.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna get crazy. Gonna get crazy. It's like trying to think about Halloween. Mm-hmm. As a first time sober person. Mm-hmm. Imagine trying to do Halloween sober, I think.
Like you do Halloween sober. I do. I do too, but I don't go out. But we're gonna go out this year. Yeah. Yes, you are. Fine, [00:53:00] fine, fine, fine, fine.
Zoe: There was a really hot guy at this last Halloween party that, that's all I need to know. I was, that we're gonna go to. Okay. That's all I need. I never found his Instagram though.
Maybe he doesn't have it, but Guy was really hot. Do think he was a ghost? Honestly, maybe because Halloween
Heather: theme,
Zoe: he was really cute and I never saw him again, but maybe he's gonna be there. Okay. And maybe this will be another one that I hand off.
Heather: Well, when I was drinking and I would go to a party and I would see someone that was hot, I would just be like, oh, I'm gonna have sex with that person and then do it.
Mm-hmm. And I wonder if I can do that sober. I wonder
Zoe: if you want to do that sober is the thing. I think I do. I'm very horny. Yeah. Yeah. I think getting pushed. Well, we're gonna go to a head massage spot. I, uh, and Heather texted me saying, what if I have an orgasm while they're touching my head?
Heather: Yeah.
Because I think that there are like erogenous zones on my body that could make me come. Yeah. Like I do think that if you play played with my nipples enough mm-hmm. I [00:54:00] could. Yeah. And nipples are one my, my favorite. Yeah. Yeah. Uh,
Zoe: yeah. So good. Mm. Halloween. Halloween. I think that if you're nervous about Halloween mm-hmm.
Just literally have one of your girlfriends over. Or if you don't have a sober girl Yeah. You can literally just watch movies and eat candy by yourself and have.
Heather: The best night ever. I think that's the other thing. It's like, it, it feels like the option is to not go out then. Yeah. And, and for some people it really might be.
Yeah. Like being first year sober, you're young. If
Zoe: you're, if you're nervous about going out, you should not go out. Okay. Yeah. Okay. You should stay in. Yeah. There's, if you're nervous about drinking, there's so many more Halloweens in your lifetime that you can go out.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: But if you go out this Halloween and you at a risk to relapse if you go out.
Yeah. Don't go out. Save it for next year. Yeah. Babe.
Heather: I'll be honest with you, every single Halloween party I've gone to in my whole [00:55:00] life mm-hmm. Boston, New York, everywhere. Themed parties, huge parties, I could take or leave every single one of them. There's not, I know one Halloween party that I'm like. Yo.
Yeah, I think about that all the time. I'm so glad. Yeah. It's literally nothing.
Zoe: None of your friends are gonna remember. 'cause usually you have to like spend so much money too. Yeah. To get in. Yeah. And the drinks are so fucking expensive. Yeah. And the Ubers are insane.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: The party that I go to though is really fun.
And that that one is a rager. Yeah. What is it? It's
Heather: all right. Well, I guess we'll see what happens. Yeah. I think, um, I think it's really normal. Like the holiday months are very, like, you're not alone. If you're like, fuck, I'm struggling this month, it's like, yeah, of course. Yeah. Because from now until Easter, there's always a holiday and it's fucking cold.
Yeah. So you're like, what else am I gonna do? I think it's also just like.
Zoe: You can flip it, right? And just be like, Ugh, this is cozy season. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm gonna bundle up and watch so many movies [00:56:00] this season. Yeah. And like get to know myself. Read some books. Yeah. Have
Heather: lots of baths. Like baths. Oh my God.
Yeah. Watch a Halloween movie in the bath. Literally, that's like the greatest night you'll ever have. Also, Halloween is depending on where you live, is so cold.
Zoe: It's so cold. Like you're gonna wanna stay in anyways, babe.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I think that it's like totally fair. Like you were saying to be nervous. Mm-hmm.
But I don't know, like if you're nervous, just stay in, have one of your girls over, have a girl's have a girl's night at your house and just watch movies. I
Heather: know. I don't even wanna say like, no, you can do it. Persevere. Yeah. You all have to go out sometime. It's like, yeah, eventually. But it does not have to be now.
Doesn't have to be this year, babe. And like it's fine. It really is fine. And maybe change the narrative of it a little bit and be like, I've outgrown Halloween. Yeah. There's a girl that I went to college with Taylor. She's so cool. And I remember the first Halloween, everyone in the dorm was like getting ready and taking pictures and partying and drinking and she wasn't, I [00:57:00] just like saw her doing her laundry and I was like, oh, are you not?
Yeah. Coming out. And she was like, oh, I just think Halloween is tacky. And I was like, okay, fuck you. Yeah. But then I was like, that is so cool. Like that girl is so cool to be like, no, I'm good. I actually don't need to like get fucked up and put on a costume. Yeah. And like, that's us now. Yeah. Um, well yeah, that's definitely me.
I, yeah, I think the holidays are hard. Family is hard. Politics is hard. And you just kind of have to push. Yeah. And you can take breaks. You can say, listen, family, this is too much for my nervous system. I'm going to my room. Well, I think that's the thing. I think if you're going to family
Zoe: events mm-hmm. You can tell people like, Hey, I'm gonna be there just for a couple hours.
Yeah. Like, it's not good for me to stay all night. Yeah. I'll see you for dinner, but then I have to like leave. Yeah. Or else I'm scared about my like sobriety or mm-hmm. For my mental health, like I can only do a couple hours. You can like apologize in advance or just like tell them upfront that you're not gonna be there all night.
Mm-hmm. [00:58:00] Because, yeah. Family is so difficult. You can make an appearance, eat the free food and dip. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.
Heather: And that's the same if you're going out too. Yeah. You can like go out with your friends for a second, get the pictures and get the fuck out. That's also true. And pre-gaming, literally just have a ginger ale with you all times.
Yeah. Like make sure your fridge has stuff in it. Yeah. So like if people are drinking, you're drinking something else. Yeah. Have something in your hand at all times. Yeah. And if you don't wanna be there, like people are, I saw this person talking about like, God, I just feel like my life is so boring now that I'm not drinking.
And I'm like, whew, that's a dangerous thing to say on the internet. But I was like, I think that. Your life isn't boring, but the things you used to do are only fun when you drink. Yeah. So you're just not doing the things you like to do. Mm-hmm. Like if going out with your friends, if going out to a club is boring to you.
Yeah. Maybe you thrown it. Liked it. Yeah. Yeah. You never liked it. It's not for you. Yeah. Get into needle point.
Zoe: Get into, that'll
Heather: be so much
Zoe: more [00:59:00] exciting.
Heather: Get into Pilates. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, it's just good to know that like you're not alone in your struggle of holiday drinking. 'cause it sucks. It does suck.
Mm-hmm. I
Zoe: feel like this year, not to be a big bitch, but like I'm excited to spend the holidays with my boyfriend. Totally. I know. I'm such a cunt.
Heather: Oh wait, why? Because you're not, you don't wanna spend 'em with your family or you're just more excited to spend 'em with your boyfriend. I'm just more excited '
Zoe: cause I have a boyfriend this season.
Yeah. No, it's exciting. Yeah. Excited. It's so exciting. I know. It's nice
Heather: to
Zoe: have a
Heather: boyfriend.
Zoe: Yeah. Like obviously I loved him before this trip, but like. I'm just like, wow, what a great guy. Aw, that's really good. Yeah. That's
Heather: really good. We're all very happy for you. No, we really are. No,
Zoe: but he loves you so much too.
Well,
Heather: yeah. He's also my boyfriend. He's also a boyfriend. He has a lot of responsibilities in that department. Drop it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But yeah, it is always a hard one. I do, honestly, the poor sport was so good to have like a non-alcoholic wine to pour into a wine glass. Mm-hmm. If you like that. Yeah. Oh my God.
This is what I wanted [01:00:00] to bring up. Somebody recently came up to me Okay. And was like, I wanna talk about you being sober. And I said, great. Mm-hmm. Asking me. 'cause I guess they're going through their own thing and they're like, I saw you drinking on your Instagram. Mm-hmm. And I was like, first of all, watch the whole video.
Yeah. 'cause it's non-alcoholic wine. Yeah. Do you think that's triggering non-alcoholic wine?
Zoe: I feel like for some people they maybe don't understand it.
Heather: Yeah. You know, I guess so. I think it's just never been a thing for me to have to understand. Yeah. I'm just like, this is wine. That doesn't get me fucked up.
Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't trigger me.
Zoe: It doesn't trigger me. Yeah. It's just like not my, I'm not gonna choose a non-alcoholic wine for the most part. Yeah. Um, just 'cause it's not your fave. Just because it's not my fave. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I like the more like, um, like fruity drinks, like.
Things that are not imitations. I did drink a lot of non-alcoholic beer though, in Portugal. Oh, you [01:01:00] did? Was it good? It was good. Um, I think I came to the conclusion that it's okay for me to drink those because at least they're not like a non-alcoholic Bud Light or like a brand that I used to drink. Okay.
You know? Okay. So
Heather: it's not,
Zoe: so I think
Heather: I,
Zoe: I told
Heather: myself it's fine because of that. Yeah. Um, I get a little bit, um, stressed sometimes when like the rules of AA meet what I'm doing. Yeah. And I'm
Zoe: like, I don't, it's not even a rule of AA though, to not drink, not alcoholic stuff. Not, I thought you're not supposed to.
Yeah. But people say you're not supposed to date in the meetings and people date in the meetings. So these rules are very loose, you know? Yeah. Well it's also addicts
Heather: running the meeting. Yeah. So whatcha are gonna do? Whatcha gonna do enforce? We're not enforcing. No, we're just, we're just little.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah.
So it's not like a rule. Yeah. It's um. I don't think I even got told it in a meeting. Maybe my sponsor told me it once, but I only got told it in rehab and that's when I was so vulnerable and like, I [01:02:00] remember this big fucking man who used to be like a big drug pen of Toronto. Yeah. Was like, you are gonna die.
Die. If you drink non-alcoholic beer, wine, you'll relapse. You can't fucking do it. No. Like, this guy was crazy. He imprinted that shit in my mind. Okay. Like, he was yelling at us Okay. Saying that we can't do it.
Heather: Okay. So that never happened to me. So maybe that what I did, what I actually did was this woman, she ca she was talking to us.
I still talk to her sometimes and she was older and she's a retread and she, which is like you've relapsed a bunch of times. Mm-hmm. And she was saying, um, I, when I stopped. Drinking. Like I would stop drinking, but I never stopped smoking weed. Mm-hmm. And she's like, that is always the thing that brought me back into drinking.
Yeah. I'm like, yeah, of course. Yeah. Like that's an addiction. It's like taking you out of your mm-hmm. Anything to separate you from your body. Mm-hmm. It doesn't matter if it's alcohol or fucking meth. Yeah. Or [01:03:00] cool whip. It's like, it's all the same feeling. Yeah. Yeah. It's all the same reason.
Zoe: Yeah. And I think now that like I am so solid in my sobriety mm-hmm.
I am able to drink a non-alcoholic wine with you. Yeah. And have a non-alcoholic beer on vacation. I'm so solid. And I know I'm not gonna drink just because I have a non-alcoholic beer and I'm gonna have a non-alcoholic beer because it's hot outside and like, I wanna like, enjoy it. Yeah. It's not for any other reason.
Um. I think it's just like you have to know what you're capable of. Yeah. And if you're questioning what you're capable of, don't fucking do it.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. Because you are the most important thing in the world. Yeah. You really are. You are. And like meeting with your friends, having one night when you're 21.
Mm-hmm. Going out to Halloween to drink and Yeah. It's not in the grand scheme of everything, it's not worth it. I would much rather be in my bath watching a scary movie. Yeah. That's just true.
Zoe: My God, that would be so terrifying to watch a scary movie in the bathroom. I used
Heather: to do that all the time.
Zoe: I was watching, I [01:04:00] watched, oh, well obviously I watched the whole Ed Gaines thing.
Did you watch it? No. Is that on Netflix?
Heather: Yeah. Honestly, I'm gonna
Zoe: watch a lot this weekend because I, Zoe I'm just working tomorrow guys.
Heather: Zoe just got Netflix. I just got Netflix. I'm a big girl. This is about to get crazy. Oh shit. I um, you're gonna like totally understand why I never go outside.
Zoe: Yeah. Well I also, I'm gonna watch Wayward, I think with my grandma tomorrow.
Heather: Um, you have to watch. Yeah. You have to watch. The Ed Geen Monster thing.
Zoe: Okay. Because it, I'll watch it. Maybe we can talk about it next week.
Heather: Yeah. Because it's a big mental health situation. Yeah. And what I, I, I'm a murder girl, so like I love these stories. Yeah. I knew about Ed Geen, but actually watching it and understanding the, like cognitive dissonance, like he doesn't know what he's doing.
Is this what Hannah and Paige were talking about on Giggly Squad? I, like last week, I haven't been keeping up. Probably. You haven't been keeping up with the giggles, but it, he's like skins people and makes them into bulls. Yeah. No, he would, they were talking about that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. Um, I think the farm life is [01:05:00] really hard.
That's all I'll say. I say if you have any sort of mental illness or any kind of affliction and you're on the farm, it gets creepy out there. I think it gets crazy out there. Yeah. It's hard work. It's cold. Your mom is mean. Yeah.
Zoe: People always say like, oh, cities are so dangerous. No. Living in rural, rural.
But fuck nowhere is, it's so fucking dangerous. I know.
Heather: There's like nobody around. Yeah. You have to be near people. I mean, there are have been a lot of stabbings here recently. Yeah. I don't wanna get stabbed, especially in the winter. No, I always think about that. I'm like, this is the worst time to get hit by a car in the cold.
God, this is going off the rails. I thought I was pregnant in college once. Did you even have sex? Yeah, I did. That time. I did. And um, I, uh, I told my, that girl Taylor, I told her, I was like, I'm just, what the fuck am I gonna do if I'm pregnant? I was not at all. And she was like, well, you're probably not, but if you are, we just have a little bit of work to do and then you'll be fine.
And I was like, and that's
Zoe: exactly right. That's nice. That was helpful if you're drinking. Yeah. We just have to a little bit of [01:06:00] work to do a little bit of
Heather: work and then we'll be fine. You're gonna be okay. It's gonna be totally fine.
Zoe: Totally fine.
Heather: Yeah. Ooh, what I wanted to say is, if you have any. Stories.
Oh yeah. Halloween related stories. Scary stories. Scary stories. I think scary stories in general, right? Like doesn't need to be Halloween. Doesn't have to be Halloween. Yeah. We love a scary story. We love a ghost story. If there's sobriety involved or drinking involved, we like that too. Mm-hmm. So if you want to submit a story or anything like that, email me.
Email us at heather@girlundrunk.com or DM s DM S actually is way better. It's easier, whatever's easier for you guys. Yeah, let us know 'cause we wanna do a little
Zoe: Halloween episode, a little spooky episode, and we're gonna dress up and you can guess what we're gonna dress up as.
Heather: Yeah, take a guess. We'll make a little thing.
Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, I'm so proud of you and I'm so glad you're back. I'm so proud of you too. I'm so happy to be back. Let's in your arms. Oh, thank God. Thank God. I'm on this sofa. Butt to butt. Mm-hmm. Okay. Proud of you. Proud of you. Bye.[01:07:00]
Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Undrunk podcast and or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com. Oh, back in action, baby.
Back in it. That felt good. Yeah, that felt pretty good. That felt like we're back.
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