#47: She's Been Kidnapped
This week on Girl, Undrunk, Heather and Zoe share honest mental health check-ins, reflect on navigating bad days in sobriety, and unpack the emotional realities of staying sober when the world feels chaotic. They discuss Natasha Lyonne's relapse, Kanye West's apology and mental health claims, and the cultural impact of Heated Rivalry alongside hockey's complicated legacy.
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She's Been Kidnapped: Transcript
Heather: [00:00:00] This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening.
Welcome back to Girl Undrunk. I'm Heather.
Zoe: I'm Zoe.
Heather: And oh, I had nothing to say.
Zoe: Oh.
Heather: Oh wow.
Zoe: And that's it. Just us today.
Heather: It's just us today as it often is. Do you like the sound that you're hearing from me?
Zoe: I am. Okay. I am like, yes, sir. Yes. Yes sir. Yes sir. Thank you, sir. Just chugged my coffee so I might just be a little bit wired.
What the fuck are we talking about today?
Heather: Um,
Zoe: how's your mental health, I guess?
Heather: Oh my god. You know what? My mental health is good. Okay.
Zoe: Whoa. [00:01:00] That was going.
Heather: My mental health is actually feeling good. I woke up this morning feeling very positive.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Um. I think that's for like a multitude of reasons I feel really good about just like the way that this week has gone.
Mm-hmm. There's like some transitions, some changes. Tabitha's episode was so good and inspiring and I've just gotten so much, we've gotten so much good feedback on it already. Yeah. And I'm like, damn, I love talking to people I love. Listening to us talk to people. It's cool.
Zoe: Yeah. It's, by the way, if you haven't liked or subscribed to the episode, like our podcast, yeah.
Please do that now.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Do that so that it could reach more people. Thank you very much.
Heather: I know it is annoying that we have to like, it's so annoying. Ask listeners to do that, but like that is the only way. Yeah. And we love this. And we love you and
Zoe: like, don't you want more people to hear it and like be inspired to get sober?
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Right.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: So then you should like and subscribe.
Heather: If you're not liking and subscribing, like, are you even sober?
Zoe: Probably [00:02:00] not.
Heather: No. Like literally, probably not.
Zoe: No, I love you. Either way, please keep listening,
Heather: but more so if you like and subscribe.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Um, I, my mental health is good. I, I feel. What was I, I was gonna say something.
I don't know. There's been a lot of crazy shit going on recently that obviously when more than one crazy thing happens.
Mm-hmm.
Heather: My brain feels like it's exploding, but I've been handling shit like
Zoe: you really have.
Heather: I know. Mm-hmm. Like a soldier. Thank you so much for agreeing with that. 'cause I know how I perceive myself, but also I know that I look crazy all the time.
We have this, like my family has this little. I wanna bring this up just because it was like, there's been a lot of like ROI on this, but my family has this like little property that we like help whatever, and my sister and I are managing it essentially. Mm-hmm. Like we take care of it. And there was a major flood.
Zoe: Yep.
Heather: And we went wmp.
Zoe: Wmp,
Heather: truly wmp wm. There was a major flood. We went out there and when we got there, there was six men standing in the house and [00:03:00] I was like, oh, this is the worst.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: I also, so almost made like a. Porn joke.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I'm like, oh my God, we're on set. But I didn't. Yeah. 'cause these are working men and I, um,
Zoe: I took you everything in you to not make that joke though.
Heather: Oh.
Zoe: Like, I am proud of you for dying.
Heather: Oh my God. I couldn't, I was dying. But essentially the point of this is that I. I've never, and my sister has never dealt with tradesmen before. Mm-hmm. We have never really dealt with like a contractor, a plumber, anything like that on our own. Yeah. It's usually been like our dad or just like never.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: So these men were so negative
Zoe: mm-hmm.
Heather: From the get go.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And I don't know that, like I am, I'm, well, I'm hardly around men. And the men I'm around are very curated to my lifestyle.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: So this like this carpentry, this type of like. Handsy man. Mm-hmm. Handy, pansy, handyman.
Zoe: Probably handsy as well.
Heather: Yeah, well probably. But it's just like I realized at some [00:04:00] point the way that they were talking that, oh, this is really bad. This is gonna be a big job.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: And I don't know shit about fuck. But I'm like, okay, but what if it's not that bad?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: They were being so negative. At some point I realized, I'm like, oh, this is a culture of.
You.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: This is a culture of men that like get together and like love to complain about how hard their work is. Mm-hmm.
Zoe: And
Heather: I was like, oh, they need to feel like they're important.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: So I was like very positive the whole time. I was like, I put on my tap shoes essentially, and I was like, don't worry guys.
It's gonna be fine step by step, day by day. Don't take it all, you won't finish your food. Like, and then we got a call like you're
Zoe: like throwing aa quotes at them. Like, no, truly One day at a time.
Heather: I know. I was like, what brought you all to your knees?
Zoe: Yeah,
Heather: but I, uh, I. Karen called me. My sister called me the other day and was like, yeah.
So they went in there and they were like, oh, the plumbing really isn't that bad. And then one of the guys who never smiles was like, oh, maybe it's the positive little one that's making this go [00:05:00] so smoothly.
Zoe: Honestly,
Heather: like, and
Zoe: that's why you stay positive.
Heather: Yeah. And you know what? I am not necessarily a positive person.
When things happen to me, I'm like, fuck, like my world, like someone is against me. Mm-hmm. They always have been. Mm-hmm. But my sister was really upset and I think me and her have like a really, like you and me. Yeah. We have a really good like support.
Zoe: Support. Any relationship should be that, by the way.
Yeah. Because I feel like that's what happens with me and my boyfriend too. Mm-hmm. Like when I get like really anxious and snippy, he has to be like more calm and vice versa.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um, but yeah, I think it's just like a. Healthy relationship sign that that happens when the dynamics change?
Heather: Well, yeah. And like my sister has like every right to be like panicked and stressed, but I'm like, well, that's not my role then.
Yeah. Why it's useless.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: So it just, it really showed me like, okay, you know what, if you do put positivity out there, it can return.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Like, and I'm just not that way usually, but I think because my sister was so. Stressed. I'm like, well,
Zoe: [00:06:00] yeah,
Heather: it's time for me to shine baby. Here we go. And
Zoe: you fucking shine.
And I
Heather: did. Yeah, you did. So I think, I think it's interesting to like go into other people's homes and situations and be like, oh, this is how you behave.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: And this is the culture around it. How do I, how do I, how do I work within this?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And make you all laugh and smile and give me a discount.
Yeah.
Zoe: Well, I'm so happy it's not as bad as they thought it was, but like
Heather: I know.
Zoe: Yeah. I wonder because my boyfriend is. The union and the trades, whatever. But he is so not that type of guy.
Heather: Mm-hmm. Well he's a
Zoe: city boy now,
Heather: which
Zoe: he's a city boy now, but he could like start working back with the union. Yeah. Like if he doesn't get another job in a couple months.
And it's just funny to me 'cause. I wonder if a part of, because he hates working as a laborer, union, whatever.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, and I wonder if a part of him hating that job is because how negative these men are. Like, I
Heather: mean, yeah,
Zoe: because my boyfriend is not like that at all. He's not like a man, [00:07:00] man. And he is. Like he's a pretty like
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Prissy boy, which we love. No,
Heather: we loves,
Zoe: we love. And he, yeah. He doesn't belong working with those other men. No, it's crazy. To me. It doesn't, it's never made sense to me why he's been working there.
Heather: I wonder what it's like for men who don't fit into that.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Crowd. Like straight men who don't fit into the working, like mm-hmm.
Negativity, like, uh. Yeah. I'm like, I guess you have to go work retail or something.
Zoe: Yeah, I know. I,
Heather: it's so weird.
Zoe: I will talk to him about that. Yeah. To be honest, because I bet that is a factor of why he doesn't like working
Heather: mm-hmm.
Zoe: There anymore. Because
Heather: I wonder if he even knows, like if he even has put that together, like I'm sure he has, but like the whole culture of it.
Yeah. Like
Zoe: it feels a little bit like.
Heather: They get off a little on like, this is a really bad thing that happened. This is a bad flood. This is gonna, it's, it's like the drama.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: When I worked in luxury retail as an assistant, part of the job was to go in and complain in [00:08:00] the staff room. Yeah. And complain about clients.
Complain about our bosses. Complain about like how much money people are spending when people are dying. It's part of it. Yeah. And it's so negative and it's so bad and someone has to realize it eventually to be like, oh my God, every time I come here, I'm like. Angry when I leave. Yeah. You know?
Zoe: Well, going back they wouldn't have been being that negative and like putting you guys down like that if you were men.
Like you were two young women. Yeah. And they were like, I think they got off on like making you guys feel bad about what happened.
Heather: Yeah. I think, I think it's like a weird power dynamic thing and mm-hmm. We're also like from this city, like, I don't know, I don't know what it is, but I do.
Zoe: We know your positivity works
Heather: well, right?
It's like I, I we are the exact opposite people.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: And so I'm just gonna do my thing over here and be happy and like, talk to you about your job and like. Hopefully learn stuff from you and you can mansplain whatever the fuck you want to me. Mm-hmm. And then we'll all get along and be best. I did tell them all.
I said at the end of this, we're gonna be best friends and no one [00:09:00] smiled. And I said,
Zoe: no, but honestly you might. My
Heather: work is cut out for me. I'm like, don't worry guys.
Zoe: Yeah. She's on it.
Heather: Yeah, I'm
Zoe: a little psycho. We'll report back in a couple months when it's all done and by that time, maybe they'll like, I'll love you and be telling you their trauma and why they act like that.
Heather: Oh my God.
Zoe: We're gonna get to the bottom of this guys.
Heather: I'm gonna ask every single one of them about their dads.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I have to.
Zoe: You have to. It's part of you.
Heather: I'm so excited. It is part of me. How is your mental
Zoe: health? What's your mental health?
Heather: Oh, I think like a 7.5.
Zoe: Ooh, we're doing a point today.
Heather: I feel good because I'm, I don't feel like I'm an eight.
I'm afraid to say eight for some reason. Yeah. I don't know why, but I'm like, I'm a 7.5. Okay. There's a lot of stuff going on, but my mental health feels pretty neutral. Maybe a little manic.
Zoe: I don't think so. I think you've been like really calm the past couple weeks. I think
Heather: so.
Nice.
Zoe: I've been really proud of you, how you're handling everything.
Like we did get some like news about how like the podcast is gonna shift in a few months, but you handled that information like really well.
Heather: Thank you. [00:10:00]
Zoe: And I was really, I don't wanna say surprised, but I was like really proud and I, I, I guess I was kind of surprised Yeah. That you took it that well,
Heather: to be honest.
Yeah. Yeah. Was, I was surprised too, honestly.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Like when I was. When I was telling you, I was like, it's fine.
Zoe: Yeah,
Heather: you're gonna be fine. Everything is fine. But yeah, I think that's kind of the goal. Right. And I think thinking back to rehab, they would tell us, don't react right away. Yeah. Like your first, and you say this, your first reaction is like a sober re or a addict addict.
An addict reaction. An addict response. Yeah. And that's okay, but just try not to act on it. Yeah. Like think about it first and it's like, yeah, what were we talking about?
Zoe: That was so crazy, um, how your first response isn't
Heather: Yeah, but
Zoe: the best response when you got the information about the podcast.
Heather: Oh my God.
I'm so sorry. That just left me, left
Zoe: you.
Heather: I'm like, I'm talking. I have no
Zoe: idea. I know you were really going and then it just Whew.
Heather: I was hoping it was gonna come back in all the chatter. Yeah. Oh, rehab. I think you like receive the information, try to stay neutral [00:11:00] and then respond accordingly. And I think that's something that I need to implement more.
Now that I see that I did it well, I'm like, okay, how do we keep doing that?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And journal about it and just stay niche. You
Zoe: said on a couple episodes ago that you wanted to reopen your rehab binder and like just go over a few things, have you?
Heather: No, no. I have been thinking about it. Okay. And this is like one of the things that have come up and some things that Tabitha was saying too.
Mm-hmm. I was like, oh yeah, I should. I'm talking around things a lot.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I'm not doing them.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: You know, but something like staying neutral in a situation I probably shouldn't
have.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I'm like, this is
Zoe: good. That's like a good step.
Heather: It's a good
Zoe: step. Really good step.
Heather: But I gotta keep it moving.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: How's your mental,
Zoe: I mean, I didn't have a great week.
Heather: Oh my God, I'm so sorry.
Zoe: Yeah. It was kind of like bad.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: I just feel like some days one thing goes wrong and I try to move forward, but then like. Shit keeps happening. Yeah. Like on Wednesday everything was just going wrong. Mm-hmm. And it was very [00:12:00] frustrating.
Like four things happened and I was like, okay. Like it's fine. Mm-hmm. But then when like the fifth thing happened, like I almost cried to Maddie.
Heather: Yeah. Oh, something happened at work.
Zoe: Yeah. Okay. And I almost like I. Was gonna cry, but I was like, I can't fucking cry. Yeah. And then I just left work. I left like a couple minutes early and I just like stormed out of there because I knew if I stayed there and talked to Maddie, I would just like end up bawling my eyes out.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: So. That was crazy. But
Heather: sometimes it's like the law of attraction. Like when something bad happens, it's like there's negative negativity around you. Yeah. And then you're feeling negative and then you over, you don't see things clearly. And then you forget your gym bag somewhere and you like,
Zoe: yeah.
Yeah. And then in like, I. I don't know. I think when stuff happens to me like that now, it's very easy to be like, oh, the world's out to get me. Totally. Like, oh my God, like the world just wants me to fucking drink
Heather: sometimes.
Zoe: But I think [00:13:00] that's the first reaction, right? Yeah. The second reaction is like they always say in AA is like.
You're having bad days, whatever God's like testing you and testing like how much you can handle. Yeah. So when I think about my bad day like that, it's like, okay, God's testing me. Like I can handle this. Mm-hmm. Like the world's not, this is, the world isn't out to get me, it's just testing me and I can literally handle anything if I've overcome alcohol.
So
Heather: totally
Zoe: when I think about it like that, it's easier for me to like. Move on.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And move forward, but
Heather: like widen the perspective a little bit.
Zoe: Yeah, it does rough. It does take a second to do that though.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, but
Heather: how are you feeling now?
Zoe: I just know that I have to have a conversation on Sunday, and I'm kind of, I don't know.
I'm not an, I guess I'm anxious about it
Heather: with family or work
Zoe: family.
Heather: Oh
Zoe: yeah.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: Anyways. Mm-hmm. I, um. A bad day was just a bad day. And then like yesterday was fine. Today's fine. I do feel [00:14:00] better. Um, it just, it does suck. 'cause I'm usually at like a 8, 7, 8.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And then something like that happens and I'm, I hate a bad day.
I
Heather: know.
Zoe: It frustrates me.
Heather: I know. You hate a bad day. You hate a plan change. Yeah. And it is, yeah. It is hard for you. I think sometimes it's hard for me, but I'm so up and down all the time. Yeah. That I'm like, there she goes again. Yeah. But it is like you're so neutral and you're very chill with things.
Mm-hmm. And so like I get shocked when you're like, I'm having a bad day. I am like, who did what?
Zoe: Who did what? Kill them.
Heather: Literally like what's happening, but. No, you handled that well too. And it's honestly, I think the best thing was just like talking about it all day. Yeah. And just kind of like saying your feelings as they're happening.
Yeah. And you're like, I have like stood downstairs in my living room after like a fucking bad day. I like threw a plate. It shattered. And I was like, I'm not gonna drink, so just fucking stop. Yeah. Like so like what do you want from me? Literally like go to somebody else. It's not gonna be me.
Zoe: Yeah. But all in all.
It [00:15:00] was like lessons are learned and like moving forward. Yeah. I will set boundaries and
Heather: yeah. That's great.
Zoe: You know, that's all you can do.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: So
Heather: I think what's also really good and really important is not judging how you feel.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Because you're, you're mad, you're allowed to be mad. Mm-hmm. I just had this conversation with my therapist where I'm like, yeah, I'm kind of annoyed, but like, and she's like, okay, well let's talk about you being annoyed.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: You can feel it. Feel it.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: So that you can. Figure out what you wanna do and get over it.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: You know?
Zoe: Well, and you said something to me after boxing, you were like, you almost don't like validate yourself like you have to. What did you say?
Heather: Oh, I, I feel like,
Zoe: I don't feel like I deserve to like be mad sometimes.
Heather: Yeah, yeah. Or you don't feel like you deserve to be mad. You don't feel like you deserve to ask for things that you want.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Because you're an addict. Yeah. Because you've put your family through hell. We all have, but at some. Point, like you have to look out for number one.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And you, you know, you [00:16:00] fucked up.
You had an addiction, you got over it. You're doing so well, you're helping other people.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: There are certain things you are allowed to ask for as an adult. Yeah. Regardless, you know, and actually you can ask for whatever you want.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: You've always needed stuff.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And it hasn't been given to you.
And then you turn to alcohol. So if you don't ask for things, then you're gonna smoke crack.
Zoe: Yeah. So that's why I'm gonna have some difficult conversations moving forward that are needed. Um,
Heather: yeah.
Zoe: But I think I am, I'm moving on from that right now. I'm still not my best, but I'll give myself a six.
Heather: Okay.
Okay. A six is over a five. It's not bad. We don't have to call.
Zoe: I'm not crazy. We don't
Heather: have to call Cam h or anything.
Zoe: Not yet.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: Well, not yet.
Heather: They're on.
Zoe: She done. She's fine.
Heather: I went to Camm h the other day. I went to, um, moer. Moer Coffee.
Zoe: Yes.
Heather: Yeah. Attached to Cam. MHI went with Arian. You like
Zoe: it?
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Birthplace of coffee.
Zoe: Oh.
Heather: But I, Ethiopia.
Zoe: Oh yes.
Heather: But I went in there and Anne was like, Hey, we're meeting here. Mm-hmm. I go, [00:17:00] I get there. I'm like, oh, this is Camm H Yeah. I'm like, you guys just fully brought me to Camm h you weirdos. She's like, I didn't even know. I'm like, this is a weird sign.
Zoe: That's funny.
Heather: Do you wanna talk about some sober news?
Zoe: Yeah. Sober news. Pow, pow, pow.
Heather: No, I'm not a Kanye girl. I'm not a yay girl.
Zoe: Yeah, I mean, I used to back in high school, I was like, fuck, this shit's a shit.
Heather: No, truly the shit was the shit. The shit's a shit that, that, that don't kill me, can only make me stronger.
Zoe: Stronger.
Heather: Um, yeah. That's Kanye, right?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: That's Kanye.
Heather: Um, I, he. Came out and apologized for essentially all of his bullshit and blamed it on, blamed it on he, he shared mm-hmm. That he has been quite mentally ill.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: And that pushed him towards antisemitism and the right and saying all this racist bullshit for years.
And I listened to the apology and I said, great, great apology. [00:18:00] Show us some action now.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I don't. Okay. We haven't heard from you.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Other than being with Bianca and things are weird and you've kind of been out so long, we all think you're crazy.
Zoe: Yeah. Well it's like the thing that we've always said happened, right?
Yeah. Like when a crazy alcoholic or a mentally ill person that's like done horrible things.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um, apologizes and blames it on.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Using asterisk, their addiction or mental health. And yes. Great. I'm glad you're getting help, but now what? Now
Heather: what? Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And then what? It's, it is very much, and I, I, I don't wanna get too much into Kanye 'cause it is so much, and honestly, I don't really care.
Zoe: I don't really care either. Like, do you listen, like, would you listen to Kanye West? Like if a bar was playing Kanye West, would you be like, oh fuck.
Heather: Um. No. Yeah. But I do that with r Kelly. Yeah. Because every now and then I'm in a bar and R Kelly comes on. Yeah. And I'm like, who [00:19:00] is the 19-year-old hipster managing this fucking place?
Yeah. This is insane. Yeah. Absolutely not.
Zoe: I know, like I don't put Kanye, I used to like play Kanye a lot, but now I don't.
Heather: Kanye West comes out with this apology beep, beep, beep. It's my mental health. Great. If true, great. If this is real and you're feeling it and you wanna apologize, times are crazy. This is a good time for you to come out and apologize.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: And then he talks about his album, his new album release.
Zoe: Oh, he did? So I didn't listen to any of
Heather: this apology. This was later, two days later, he's like, I'm dropping an album. And that makes me feel like. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Yeah. None of that mattered.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: It's what's going on.
Zoe: No.
Heather: Like, I,
Zoe: I don't like that.
Heather: No. So I think this is where we get weary around people and why sometimes, especially me, I'm very like, hesitant to believe, I not believe, but I'm just hesitant to get right back on someone's bandwagon before they like, show us if they're,
Zoe: well, I don't think you're not, you're [00:20:00] not supposed to forgive right away.
Like you're not, it's not. You don't need to forgive right away. A lot of people feel pressured to forgive people right away, and like that's not Yeah. What should happen. Mm-hmm. If you don't wanna forgive someone right away, take your time. Like it can be months. Yeah. It can be years.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um, if you choose to do that.
But I think it is important to like, have all the facts and know, be in your heart, ready to forgive someone.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Because if you're like, oh yeah, it's okay, and then you just become friends with that person or like. Accept the apology,
Heather: you're gonna
Zoe: get hurt, then you still have resentment and then it's gonna lash out in different ways if you actually So true.
Haven't fully forgiven them.
Heather: Yeah, that's so true. And I just, I was like on board, I was like, okay, this is good. I like apologies. I like, I like realizations, I like all this stuff. I'm okay with a repenting.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: But then you're gonna drop an album, so I'm like, ah, I don't
Zoe: care.
Heather: Yeah, I don't care. You know?
Zoe: I know.
Like if you're actually like getting help, then you need to stay away for at least a year. Like work on yourself [00:21:00] properly?
Heather: Yeah. Yeah.
Zoe: Get off Media gone for like a year. Like when? Last time we've
Heather: heard of him. I don't even know. I don't even know. He was like all Maga maga and then he is just like not
Zoe: Okay.
Why is Nicki Minaj up? Donald Trump's asshole?
Heather: Probably money.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I'm not really sure. I think she's gone crazy.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: People say the older you get, the more conservative you become.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And I'm like, the older you get, the higher risk you are for dementia.
Zoe: Mm.
Heather: So I'm not. Placing moral neutrality on someone with dementia.
Zoe: Yeah, fuck off. Just because you're older than me. You don't know more.
Heather: Oh my God. It's crazy. Anyway,
Zoe: yeah. That's weird. I,
Heather: that is,
Zoe: I watched it and it made me feel really uncomfy. Like
Heather: what
Zoe: ni the Nicky thing.
Heather: It's very uncomfortable.
It's
Zoe: very uncomfy.
Heather: She has been kidnapped.
Zoe: She has,
Heather: she's been kidnapped in 2018.
She tweeted about, she wrote a tweet about what was going on under Trump's regime. Mm-hmm. And she was like, I'm an immigrant. I came over here at five years old.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: [00:22:00] Um, undocumented and I can't imagine what it would feel like for my parents to be ripped from me at five years old in this strange country I don't know anything about.
And,
Zoe: and then now, yeah. Did a full 180
Heather: cognitive dissonance is very strange. The
Zoe: fuck. No, I think she's been kidnapped. She's, there's,
Heather: maybe she's been kidnapped,
Zoe: she's been killed, and there's a new Nikki out there
Heather: like Avil Levine.
Zoe: Yep.
Heather: I hope no one kills us and then replaces our bodies.
Zoe: That would be crazy.
It
Heather: would be crazy.
Zoe: But then like someone would wanna be us. So that like, kind of makes me feel good that someone like wants to be me.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Um, other sober news.
Zoe: In other sober news, I'm blanking on her name. What's her name? Natasha
Heather: Leon?
Zoe: Yes. Natasha Leone.
Heather: So Natasha Leone, we love her from Orange is a new black.
Kind of made a, to me it was a little cryptic her, her post on X. Yeah. The [00:23:00] first one said,
Zoe: I'm relapsing more to come or something.
Heather: I've relapsed. Yeah. More to come. And then the second one said.
Zoe: It was like a paragraph.
Heather: Yeah. It was very much like recovery, like is a journey. Mm-hmm. Like we need to take the shame out of it.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: If you're, if you're struggling right now, you're not alone.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Which was amazing. But I'm also like, Ooh, I feel so, first of all, I always feel like, oh, what's going on with you when you are tweeting things? Yeah. Like, holy shit. And I guess maybe it just got too big and she needed to say it out loud.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But. I don't really even know what to say about it.
Zoe: I think, well, I hope she's like getting the help that she needs, and I hope that she's back on her sobriety journey. But those texts, like those tweets also, I'm like, I was skeptical, like, oh, is she still high right now?
Heather: Well, I would assume so.
Zoe: Yeah. I would assume so.
Right.
Heather: Yeah. I, I, I, she said in [00:24:00] like a later statement, like, she. Hopes to get her shit back together, essentially.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: So that she can film this bio. Is it a biopic? She's writing a movie. Mm-hmm. And she, I think she's starring in it, and it's essentially about her and her dad.
Zoe: Okay.
Heather: Um, growing up. But she's like, yeah, I wanna be, I wanna be good for that, sober for that.
And I'm like. Has anyone ever, has any addict ever
Zoe: sobered up for something?
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah. No.
Heather: Like, no. Right. Yeah. And that thing of like, oh, I'll do it next week. I'll do it tomorrow. I'll start, start today. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, I've all, I've done that, and I feel like when you have something that you have to be sober for,
Zoe: mm-hmm.
Heather: You're like more likely to die. Yeah. Before that event even takes place.
Zoe: Yeah. You're more likely to get so fucked up before that event that you don't make it to that event.
Heather: Why is that? Why is it always before something like that is the most dangerous time to be an addict,
Zoe: I guess. There's too much pressure.
Heather: Too much pressure. You're like trying to stop all the time and you feel shame that you're not stopping. You drink more. Yeah. You end up binging. It's Then you wanna last hurrah. Yeah. Ends up not being a last hurrah.
Zoe: Yeah. [00:25:00] But I think like her telling everybody that she has relapsed does take the shame out of it.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um, I think it's, she was saying something about how she hasn't been honest
Heather: mm-hmm.
Zoe: And that like was a part of the relapse. So like her being honest with the world
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Is like a step forward and like, that's why honesty is number one.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Like being honest with yourself, how you're feeling, being honest with everybody around you.
Um, even Tabitha was saying that last episode too.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: But I think, yeah, relapse is part of sobriety, you know?
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: It's very normal and I feel like a fraud to say that as someone who is three years sober and never relapsed. But I think we both know like it is. Something that could easily happen to both of us.
Heather: Yeah. It really is part of it. And I mean like people who don't drink, it's like you can go home at the end of the day and have a glass of wine. Not only [00:26:00] can we not do that mm-hmm. We often really want to do that.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: And have nowhere to put those emotions or those feelings. I don't know how difficult it is living in New York right now and how.
The political spectrum is affecting them.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I mean I always assume the girls on Orange is the New Black. Like they are so politically inclined. Yeah. And they're such like social justice warriors. Yeah. And I just, I imagine that this is a lot for them. You know,
Zoe: I honestly wanna watch Orange Is The New Black again.
'cause I think I was just so young when I watched it the first time.
Heather: Oh my God. Yeah. 'cause I was in college when it came out.
Zoe: Yeah. I think I was like in high school then. Yeah. Yeah. That's
Heather: so weird.
Zoe: I know.
Heather: Ugh.
Zoe: I need to re-watch it.
Heather: I, um.
Zoe: I think I, I, she has been like very vocal about like her political beliefs and like what she stands up for on the red carpet.
She wore like an iso um, pin and. I did like read a Reddit thread about how she relapsed.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: And everyone on the Reddit thread was like, yeah, of course. Like I would relapse too. Like, what's going on in the [00:27:00] world right now?
Heather: Yeah. I, I think that's an interesting point to bring up because at what point does sobriety just fucking not matter?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: You know, sometimes I sit here and we're on our little sobriety podcast and there's. Horrible things. Horrible things being done to people and children. Yeah. And all over the world and like very quite close to where we are.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: And I'm like, well let's talk about sobriety today.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: And it's like, how does that compare?
Or like, what are we doing?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But I think that's also like part of it. Yeah. A addiction is really hard. Yeah, it's hard all the time. And so when things like this come up, it's like, yeah. Do you wanna just. Uh, kill yourself. Yeah. Do you wanna just die and say, okay, I'm giving up. Yeah. Like, none of this matters?
Or do you stay sober and hope for a better future? I don't know.
Zoe: Staying sober in really hard situations. Mm-hmm. Like what's happening in the states right now is hard. Yeah. But again, it's like the [00:28:00] god testing you thing. Mm-hmm. It's like what you can handle anything like. Anything that is thrown your way.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: You can handle it. It's just how are you going to handle it, is the question
Heather: I, yeah. I also think like drinking is, it's that thing. We learned this in rehab too. It's like drinking poison and hope the other person gets sick.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: It's like you're not gonna give up drink alcohol and a genocide is gonna be over.
Zoe: Yeah. Well, and also you can do more to help the country if you stay sober. Mm-hmm. If you start, if you relapse. And go back to your old ways, that's not going to help the country in any way.
Heather: You know, a big thing about like getting sober is day by day.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Step by step, focusing on everything and how can you not.
Mm-hmm. Especially if you are into politics and you are living somewhere where there's corruption and your aunt or
Zoe: something happened
Heather: like
Zoe: that. Someone you
Heather: know
Zoe: on social media at all.
Heather: Yeah. [00:29:00] I think, um. Everything is so overwhelming. Yeah. All the time. There's so much information. There's so much bullshit out there.
And it's like we taking it all in at the same time is so overwhelming.
Zoe: Mm-hmm. And
Heather: I think being sober, being an addict, it's like, I can't, you can't do that ever. It's like, yeah, I'm never gonna be able to drink again. That's crazy. Right? It's like, oh, you're just not drinking today.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And tomorrow.
Zoe: Yes.
Heather: And I think it's the same for like. Social media and what's happening in the world. It's just like we can't take it all in.
You
Zoe: can't take it all in.
Heather: Yeah. If you take it all in, you're gonna go crazy. Yeah. And so people who are taking it all in like me
Zoe: mm-hmm.
Heather: I feel crazy.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And that's okay. And I think some people have to take it all in.
They wanna be informed.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: But at the same time, it is affecting your mental health. It's affecting all of our mental health.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: I would say take a break sometimes if you can.
Zoe: Yeah. But I liked that analogy because yeah, you look at the grand scope of it and you're like, oh my God, I can't do anything.
Or you look at the grand scope of. Not drinking forever. Yeah. And you're like, I can't do it. But if you [00:30:00] just focus on today, like what can you do today? Yeah. To like better your community.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Better yourself. That's something you can, that's a simple thing that you can do every day. Yeah. And there, I'm sure there's lots to be done in like the community that you're in, in the states to help out, to feel like you're doing something.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And so I would. I would say to do that and to like be as vocal as you can and stand up for what you believe in, um, because there are things that you can do, small things. Mm-hmm. Um, and drinking is not going to help in any way.
Heather: No.
Zoe: Being active in your community and staying sober for your community will help.
Um, I was saying to you, I can't imagine living in like. Somewhere in the States and going to meetings. Yeah. And how politics could be like a very big thing in
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Meetings, because I've never been in a meeting where someone really talks about politics. Like sometimes I [00:31:00] guess they say like a gay joke or like what?
I don't know. Like they, someone has said like, I forget. But sometimes they, someone says something that is like inappropriate and not correct.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: And then they had correct themselves after, and everyone's like, oh, okay.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: You know, like make a side comment.
Heather: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Zoe: So like think not all right.
Things have been said in AA for sure. Of course. Like the meetings, like there's some things that are said that I'm like, oh, well that was fucking sexist or racist or homophobic.
Heather: Yeah,
Zoe: it's bound to happen anywhere.
Heather: You know, it's also a place where you're, you go there to like work through your,
Zoe: yeah.
Heather: Your feelings and your emotions and your addiction and so it's kind of a safe space, right?
Yeah. To be able to say what you need to say
Zoe: Exactly. Makes
Heather: sense.
Zoe: So I can't imagine like going through, so like living in the states right now, whatever you're feeling and talking about that in AA or ca, whatever, and then. What if the people there don't align with the same political beliefs as you, and then [00:32:00] fights start, and then you feel like you can't speak your own truth.
Yeah. Or feel how you wanna feel and get it out.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And then like, I can only imagine like, like fights that could happen in those meetings
Heather: or, I know, and I was saying this yesterday to you that I was like, I, it's baffling in my brain.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: To think of anyone who's been an addict and got sober that they would be anything but on the left.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: And I said it out loud and I was like, well that's the dumbest fucking thing in the world. Like of course people are like still gonna have their same political beliefs, but I went through some not My political beliefs have. Always been the left. Of course they have, but I went through like a life transition rehab.
Mm-hmm. Where I was like, oh, okay. I can't be mean to every man that walks by me. Mm-hmm. Empathy first. What happened to him? Why does he probably have to talk over women? Like mm-hmm. What was his family life like?
Zoe: I think that's the naive thing of like when we, when I'm sure you feel the same way, like when I first got sober, I was like, oh, everyone that's sober is a good person.
Heather: Yes. Oh my God. Yes. And this is [00:33:00] a really good point because, yeah. I would be fucking shocked if I went into an AA meeting and I was like, I'm really sad that people are getting torn out of their homes. Yeah. And someone was like, yeah. Get rid of 'em.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: You know?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I would be very confused. I would be like, no, now we all have to sit down and talk about what recovery actually means.
Mm-hmm. And if you have those views, I think you need to go to rehab. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Like, I, I don't know, I don't know how v how you can work on yourself be, because I think people get sober
Zoe: mm-hmm.
Heather: But they don't do the work.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: You know?
Zoe: I think so too. And they, they act like they are, but they're not.
And they just want a power thing, whatever.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: But if you're not feeling safe at the meetings that you go to, I'm sure you have like other friends in the meeting that have same beliefs as you just meet up with them like once a week. Yeah. Until the meetings go back to normal.
Heather: That's a good point too, because you have to like, sobriety is yours, like you conduct it, how you act, how you behave, how you feel.
Yeah, maybe if AA in your city, your [00:34:00] town isn't working, find the girlfriends or the boyfriends that you have and just go to coffee with them on Wednesdays instead and like talk about things. Yeah. You don't have to be somewhere, you don't have to stay with your sponsor. You don't have to,
Zoe: you
Heather: know?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But that is scary because that's people's. Place of home.
Zoe: Yeah. That's where they felt the safest. And now I look, we don't know if any of this is true. I don't know how meetings are in the States right now, but this is just what I'm imagining that could be happening.
Heather: Well, apparently ICE has been raid AA meetings.
Zoe: Right. I forgot that we learned that.
Heather: Yeah. Which is,
Zoe: I just like literally got chill chills over my body. Well,
Heather: the thing about. Aa
Zoe: mm-hmm.
Heather: Is like, you're going there because you're hurt. Yeah. And you're traumatized and you have an addiction, assuming obviously not everybody
Zoe: and ICE is going there because like addicts are more inclined to be No,
Heather: I think there's just d there's, they're going into the specific parts of town.
Where there's like a, a higher population of
Zoe: immigrants.
Heather: Immigrants,
Zoe: yes.
Heather: Or [00:35:00] just like non-whites.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: So that's really scary. That's, um, God, this is such a depressing episode.
Zoe: I know it,
Heather: but it's fine.
Zoe: There's hope in this. I, I promise.
Heather: Yeah. We can talk about heated rivalry.
Zoe: No, I'm just kidding. But.
Heather: I think for sober people, this whole thing, this, this whole, I mean the past two years have just been rough, but AA is so sacred and you're going somewhere because you're hurt, because you've done bad things and you want to get better and you want to be healthy and make the world a better place and now your place is not safe.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And it's in a church no less. Yeah. Like very confusing, but
Zoe: I don't know. I think, yeah, if. If you're in that situation, find your own people and mm-hmm. Um, meet up separately. 'cause it's just, it's not, you can't tell any of these people that you're wrong and it's not, it's not safe for your own sobriety to like fight, you know?
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: So,
Heather: yeah, that's true too.
Zoe: I don't think fighting people is the right solution either. It's [00:36:00] just gonna cause more drama. Keep to yourself, you know, what you believe and again, you can do things in your community that.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Are like impactful.
Heather: You know, I think my, I said my mental health is at a 7.5. I actually don't think that's true.
I think I'm really sad.
Zoe: I think like this has got me lower too.
Heather: Well, I think I've been sad. Yeah. And I've been angry recently. Mm-hmm. And I just like. We kind of tried to talk about heated rivalry a few weeks ago and I couldn't because I was just so mad mm-hmm. At men in general and like,
Zoe: do you wanna talk about that?
Because I think your
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: Your take is a good take. Yes. Like, even though it is a crazy take Oh, and like it is filled with like, hatred towards men. Yeah. It is. Like, no one's really talking about that aspect of it. And I think you're a little bit calmer now to have that conversation.
Heather: I'm calmer now.
Zoe: Anyways.
Heather: Heated rivalry.
Zoe: Our fans in the states, though we love you and um, I hope you're okay. Yeah. And we're thinking of you.
Heather: We are thinking about you literally all the time. Yeah. Stay sober, stay safe, and honestly, throw a rock if you have [00:37:00] to.
Zoe: Yeah,
Heather: I shouldn't have said
Zoe: that.
Heather: Or a brick, whatever you got. I got a lot of tripods in here that have no use.
I could chuck them over. Um, heated rivalry. Now I'm coming to you as a mental health advocate here with heated rivalry. I have an issue with it. I'm getting very close to the mic because I'm very conflicted.
Zoe: She's conflicted. I loved it,
Heather: Zoe
Zoe: loved it. And, um,
Heather: Zoe loves skate hockey.
Zoe: I love, I I just was like, it's really, it was really inspiring.
Heather: Yeah. What was inspiring about it to you?
Zoe: I don't know, like. Being in a group full of men who are so like
Heather: gay,
Zoe: well they're just like being gay in a group full of men like that and like coming out is very powerful. You know?
Heather: Totally.
Zoe: It's, I'm sure you've been bullied your whole life or like been trying to.
Keep it in your whole life and like to come out [00:38:00] in a sport like hockey, which is so straight and masculine. Mm-hmm. And like, Ugh, you gotta be tough. You gotta be like this. Yeah. And also they were saying like they are. Like being gay doesn't mean you're not tough. You know? Like you're fucking, you're of
Heather: course
Zoe: you're a tough boy.
Heather: You're a big, tough boy
Zoe: and you can like handle it in the ass like that.
Heather: Yeah. Listen, as somebody who is getting into anal, not easy. Yeah,
Zoe: it's not easy.
Heather: I'm doing a really good job though, everyone, just in case you're wondering,
Zoe: my only gripe about it was
Heather: you're using a lot of interesting words today, and I also like today because we have some listeners just in on their ears and not on YouTube.
You said you did this with your fingers and you went. In asterisk and I was like, oh my God, Zoe appealing to the entire audience. That was great.
Zoe: Did you like it?
Heather: Yes. You're so smart.
Zoe: Well, I've been like thinking of, um, like when I listen to Arm Track Expert, they do say things for the listener and I'm like, ah, we gotta do that.
Heather: We gotta do. Zoe is currently taking off her trousers
Zoe: and, but [00:39:00] if I take off my trousers, I have my leggings on.
Heather: Are you sweating?
Zoe: I'm getting hot.
Heather: You're wearing a fleece and heat tech leggings. This is out
Zoe: of control. I'm getting a little bit hot. My back is starting to sweat.
Heather: This will be a shorter one.
Zoe: Anyways, my, um, my only gripe was everyone was like, oh my God, there's so much sex in it. There's so much sex in it. There wasn't that much sex in it. No. Like it's just because it's gay sex. I guess everyone was like having a fucking fit
Heather: over it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Zoe: And also the sex that they portrayed wasn't like.
Realistic at all. Yeah. There was no lu being shown.
Heather: It was so hard and fast in the immediacy.
Zoe: Immediacy. And there was like condoms shown once, so I think they could,
Heather: could have, I don't remember the condoms.
Zoe: I think it was in like the first or second episode.
Heather: Wow. Save
Zoe: it. But yeah, I think that was my only gripe about it.
You're a gripe.
Heather: I wanna preface by saying love gays, love gay hockey.
Zoe: Of course.
Heather: I've no s all like, whatever. I [00:40:00] think it's really great for every single person to be able to zone out and watch a show that feels like representation, that feels sexy. I watch a lot of dumb fucking shit that's not real. Mm-hmm.
And I like it and I like to watch it and get horny about things. Okay. I have multiple gripes. Did you know that balsamic vinegarette is grapes?
Zoe: No
Heather: balsamic is grapes.
Zoe: Really?
Heather: Yeah. You said gripes. I said gripes. That got me thinking about grapes. I learned this morning that balsamic is grapes.
Zoe: Interesting. I don't know what I thought it was.
Heather: Never thought about it before.
Zoe: Never.
Heather: I didn't think. If you said, what do you think balsamic is? I'd say probably a root from the ground.
Zoe: They have just vinegar, like malted.
Heather: I don't even know what malted means.
Zoe: Me neither. Anyways, your grapee grape gripe
Heather: my grape with the, my gripe with the grape gr crispy crunchy creamy crackers.
Zoe: Hmm.
Heather: He rivalry. Here's the thing, I don't want anything to do with [00:41:00] the NHL, and I understand that this is a personal problem.
Zoe: Yes,
Heather: I understand that this is a feminist problem and I've taken it all on. Yes, I do get that. I watched the whole show and I, I got a little teary. Mm-hmm. At some points when the Russian said, I love you and Russian, I went, oh, no.
Like, I was so happy. Mm-hmm. Because you know, I'm a girl and I like that shit.
Zoe: He's so hot.
Heather: I mean, yeah, they're all just
Zoe: like, he's literally like a perfect specimen of a person.
Heather: When I heard the
Zoe: Russian, I think he's by like, we might have a chance.
Heather: Well, they have just been doing like underwear shoots now.
They're leaning in.
Zoe: Yeah, they're leaning in.
Heather: Um, I, uh. The Russian, when I heard the Russian on an interview speaking not Russian.
Zoe: Not Russian.
Heather: Not in a Russian accent. No. I said, who? Dis impostor?
Zoe: No. Literally. I said,
Heather: how did you do that so well?
Zoe: And he did it in like six months.
Heather: Okay. Someone was like, they didn't even know how to skate before filming.
And I was like, baby, that's so fucking clear to all of us.
Zoe: Yeah. But like, this is another [00:42:00] thing I was gonna, I said last time about it. They didn't really show any hockey.
Heather: No hockey,
Zoe: no hockey was shown, which I loved. Marty Supreme showed too much ping pong for it. Not supposed to be ping pong. Gonna use asterisk again, not a ping pong movie.
Mm-hmm. It was all fucking ping pong. It was like 30 minutes of ping pong. At least he did. Rivalry, showed like maybe five minutes of hockey and that's just how it's supposed to be done.
Heather: I agree. Just like children referred to and not seen. Um. That's how I feel about hockey. Literally referred to Not seen.
Not seen.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And not supported. And not buying 50, 50 tickets. It's just crazy. But anyway, um, the show got, I was nervous to watch the show in general because I don't like hockey and anything that takes hockey in a direction that's just so fantastical and not true.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: And kind and sweet and loving.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I don't care. And I [00:43:00] feel, to me, and maybe other people feel like this, I don't know.
Zoe: Can you explain why? Like, just in case they don't know, like you're gripe about the NHL.
Heather: Okay. Well, my gripe about the NHL started when I was five years old. No, but I, the NHL, we've talked about this. If you're, oh, if you're new here also.
Hi.
Zoe: Yeah. If you're new or hi, hello. We're
Heather: usually not this depressive, but the world is crazy. But. The NHL. The OHL had a big scandal at the beginning of the year, or in the summer. It was a trial. It was like a brutal gang rape is what it was. Mm-hmm. And all of the guys got off scot free.
Zoe: Yeah,
Heather: scot free. No one's talked about them.
The NHL hasn't made a statement. Nothing's come of it.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I don't know one single man in this world who is like on social media who has said a single thing about it.
Zoe: No.
Heather: I have men who I know listen to this podcast that are hockey boys that I grew up with.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: They won't say shit about it.
Zoe: Well, I think it's just like hockey men in general in both of our lives.
Like they've been praised so much. Mm-hmm. Like in high school, they were [00:44:00] like. They had their own fucking hallway. Yeah, they were, they didn't have to like hand in shit on time because they had their hockey games to go to. Oh,
Heather: one time Braden Clancy just walked. Oh, he was in 12th grade. I was in 10th grade.
He walked over to me and just sneezed in my hair for no reason.
Zoe: And that's why we hate the other,
Heather: keep that name in by the way.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And the reason we bring that all up is because I have a hard time with this show because I get, it's not necessarily the NHL, but it's hockey. Yeah. And hockey is the NHL.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Any kind of mm, storyline or narrative that has to do with hockey that is so far from any truth where the truth is actually violent and dangerous and terrifying and oppressive, it, uh. Fuck you.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Literally.
Zoe: Fuck. Fuck you. Well, I think a good thing that you said was like, it's, it's a great coverup for like what the NHL like actually does.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: You know?
Heather: That's what it feels like
Zoe: to me. Yeah. It is like a fantastical like imaginary [00:45:00] world where like, yeah, people are gay and hockey and they're like having the best time. Yeah. And whatever.
Heather: And let's have empathy. Empathy for these men, empathy for these boys, because some of them are gay.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Yeah. Duh. Have empathy. It's up to you to change the culture of hockey. Yeah. It's up to the hockey boys. It's up to their dads, it's up to the coaches, it's up to their moms. Like, change the culture of hockey.
Zoe: Yeah. No, and I agree. And they should be talking about that more in the press.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um, because I don't think like either of them have mentioned what the culture of hockey is and how it does affect boys who are gay or like.
Boys who should be like doing right things as a man. So
Heather: I, I know I shouldn't be this heated about it, but it does what you did. He just said he, oh, but it does, what you just said was like, um,
Zoe: yeah, there's not all people are liking it the way that I like it. Some people, men that I know have not watched it because it disrespects their sport.
I using asterisks a lot today.
Heather: I know guys, she's a new [00:46:00] woman.
Zoe: I'm a new woman. Who am I?
Heather: But it does to me feel like.
Zoe: It seems like it could divide people too. You know, like the people who like human, the people who are like, I would never fucking watch that.
Heather: Yeah. But it's not like the people who are never gonna fucking watch that are actually gonna talk about it because then they would have to talk about h hockey culture in general and being gay, and they're literally afraid of that word.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: They're, except when they say it to the kids that are just trying to like survive in school, you know? Yeah. To me a little bit, it was. Good timing. It like comes out when the world is in shambles. People have kind of forgotten about the OHL situation, fucking criminal situation.
Zoe: Yeah. It is funny because the OHL is Canadian and they did shoot the show in
Heather: Canada.
Zoe: Yeah. The whole thing is Canadian. Yeah.
Heather: But anyway, um, the like, main point I think for me and why I got so triggered is because. This coming out and like this narrative around gay hockey and like how exciting. We've never seen it before. It feels like, yeah, what you said, it covers up [00:47:00] every single. Trial or accusation.
It just like, just bulldozes, any woman who's ever come forward and it's like, oh, well actually we have empathy for hockey guys now. So fuck you girls. Yeah. Try again next time. You know?
Zoe: Yeah, no,
Heather: so I think it shouldn't affect me this much, but it does, and I'm working on it in. Therapy.
Zoe: Yeah. But it is a very interesting take and like I do agree with you that like, okay, great, we have like the gay representation now in hockey.
Like what about the women who have been abused and assaulted for years by these hockey boys? Yeah. What about them?
Heather: And explain to the people why, as a hockey boy you can't come out. Explain what will happen to you. Yeah, they should explain what happens if you're even remotely a little bit, not masculine, a little bit.
Say what happens to you.
Zoe: I am. Yeah. They should be talking about more in that, more of that in the press. Who knows if they even like met Many met any of the hockey boys
Heather: met.
Zoe: Um.
Heather: Carney though. Did you [00:48:00] see that yesterday they were at, yeah,
Zoe: I did see that. They
Heather: gave a little hug to each other.
Zoe: Madison sent me that.
Heather: I said this is giving Justin Trudeau and Katy Perry. I see a new love on the rise
Zoe: sexual
Heather: Holland and Carney.
Zoe: But yeah, I think I do appreciate that take and I do understand where you're coming from and I like how you can. Look at it that way, like as well, like I think
Heather: just misery, absolute misery, negativity.
Zoe: This was a very, um, sad podcast,
but
Heather: you know what?
Zoe: It's needed sometimes to like talk things through, you know, like sad doesn't mean negative, like we're informing. It's not saying we're negative about what's happening.
Heather: No, I think it's just real. It's
Zoe: real. And I
Heather: think sometimes I get annoyed with other podcasts when they like don't talk about shit.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But I think for us specifically, like this is mental health sobriety and like we are affected by it. So coming in here and just being like, yay, gay hockey. Yay. Costa Rica is gonna be like,
Zoe: yeah.
Heather: It's just not how I feel.
Zoe: By the way, we're gonna go to Costa Rica,
Heather: Bing bong, bang.
Zoe: We're gonna book it today.
Hey, [00:49:00] this is gonna be our first trip together. How are you? Feeling? Are you
Heather: scared? I'm feeling so excited.
Zoe: Okay.
Heather: And. We do know somebody Madeline.
Zoe: Mm.
Heather: From Happiest Sober. That's her. Okay.
Zoe: Yes.
Heather: We'll link it here. She does. I was going through your Instagram. She does like a sober trip to where, do you know places?
Zoe: She goes in Costa
Heather: Rica. She's going to Costa Rica.
Zoe: What?
Heather: Um, I don't know, but I said, come on the pod. Oh my God. We can talk about Costa Rica, but um. That's like her thing, like sober travel and stuff, but I don't know
Zoe: where she's going. Well, maybe the next one we can go with her. That would be amazing,
Heather: right?
Zoe: I am really excited. Um, I'm going to be the man in this romantic relationship to Costa Rica. I'm going to take care of you.
Heather: Doesn't
Zoe: much. I'm going to protect you from the monkeys. I'm going to protect you from the waters. And I am going to the water plural.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: We'll probably go to like a waterfall.
Heather: I would love to go to a waterfall.
As long as nothing touches my feet, I will be wearing [00:50:00] UV gloves and socks the whole time. I'm gonna be a nerd, a white, white, white kid at the beach because I do have an allergy.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And this is just gonna open right back up, so
Zoe: I think you'll be shocked at how much like I lay out in the sun.
Heather: I am shocked by it.
Yeah. I am shocked by it. Yeah. I am shocked by it. And I'll tell you exactly why.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: When we were at your pool in the summer, I said. This is an addict.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I said this person is unwell. This person is coping by sizzling away.
Zoe: I like to sizzle, which is interesting because I do work at a medical clinic and I do wear sunscreen.
Your
Heather: face is often covered, I feel.
Zoe: No, I would say my face is covered like 50% of the time, but yeah, as long as I wear my sunscreen, like I like to cook out there. So
Heather: yeah, I'll be in and out. I'll be up and down, in and out. Yeah.
Zoe: I think it's good because where we're staying is covered by trees, so it shouldn't be like too hot.
Heather: I'm gonna get a monkey right in the head
Zoe: and we might get a monkey in the head. The content from that vacation will be so fun.
Heather: I know. Tell us what you guys want us to do.
Zoe: Yeah. What [00:51:00] should we do?
Heather: What should we do?
Zoe: What should we do?
Heather: But I'm excited. I'm excited. We haven't gone on a trip together. We'll see.
Maybe at the end of this, we will no longer be friends. It'll be girl, girl and drunk with two new characters.
Zoe: It's, uh, they'll, they'll murder us and then the new ones will come in.
Heather: True crime sobriety podcast,
Zoe: true crime like we've always wanted. But I think it will, our relationship will be even like fucking stronger.
Maybe we will have a fight. Maybe we'll have to work through some things. I thought you weren't safe.
Heather: Maybe we'll have sex. Maybe we'll peg each other.
Zoe: Maybe we will. Whatever happens in Costa Rica stays in cost.
Heather: Rica. It would be crazy if you and me had sex and like the one sexual act we did was peg each other in the asshole,
Zoe: like share one.
Heather: Ew. I wasn't thinking that. Okay. I don't know why that's more Ew.
Zoe: That's just like, so the brain went, okay, I think we need to end this pod. Um, we got crazy near there.
Heather: What do you mean? Um, do we need to say anything?
Zoe: Um, do we need to say anything?
Heather: Oh, we will say again, thank you guys so [00:52:00] much for writing in our.
Type forum.
Zoe: Yeah, keep writing.
Heather: It's an anonymous forum on our, it's linked on our Instagram and our TikTok on our website. If you wanna check out our website.
Zoe: You got a website?
Heather: We got a website. But, um, what did I just say? Yeah, just keep asking us questions,
Zoe: right? Keep writing us stories. Whatever you wanna tell us.
Literally, whatever to us, like literally whatever I think we. Answered a few last time, and like if you wanna follow up on the advice we gave you, that would be fun too.
Heather: That's exactly right. 'cause I believe there was somebody who we wanted them to break up with. No. Yeah, they did break up with their boyfriend.
They
Zoe: did boyfriend break up with a broken and we wanted to know why. I think
Heather: we still wanna know why.
Zoe: Yeah, but we're gonna be doing like an episode, a question episode at the end of every month.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: So in a couple weeks we'll do another one. So just keep writing.
Heather: Just keep writing.
Zoe: Just keep writing.
Heather: Never stop. Never stop carpal tunnel. Never stop.
Zoe: And just keep being sober too. Keep
Heather: being
Zoe: sober. If you can, try your best.
Heather: And you know what? That's all you can do. Yeah. Okay. Proud of you.
Zoe: [00:53:00] I'm proud of you, and I'm proud of you. Proud of
Heather: you.
Zoe: We love you. Love
Heather: you. Bye
Zoe: bye.
Heather: Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Undrunk podcast and or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com.
