#33: We Love A Rimmer
Three years sober, baby! 🎉 This week, Heather and Zoe celebrate Zoe's three-year sober birthday with cake, mocktails, and some real conversations about what life looks like three years into recovery. They talk about the unexpected emotions that come with sober milestones, learning to trust your body again, and why intimacy hits different when you're actually present for it. They also get into sober news — from Love Is Blind and everyday drinking red flags to the internet discourse around Dax Shepard.
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We Love A Rimmer: Transcript
Heather: [00:00:00] This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening. Welcome back to Girl Undrunk. Hi everybody. I'm Heather. And I'm Zoe. And we're back. Just the two of us. Just the two of us. It feels so good.
Zoe: Amazing.
Heather: I miss just the two of us last week. I did too.
I love our guests, but love our guests. I love you. I'm so excited for our upcoming guests, but I think this is gonna be a really nice time to just like decompress this with us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because now I feel like I have so much to talk to you about. Like I know we really have all day. I'm like, we should just sit up here all day and chat and that's what we're kind gonna do all day.
Yeah. Like Joe Rogan, you guys into a six hour sobriety podcast. Jesus. And we just, I would
Zoe: be so stressed if we did a six hour podcast. Yeah. After like the anxiety I get after this podcast. Oh my God. And then like if it was 2, 3, 6 hours,
Heather: like no way. I know, but like, what else could I talk about for six hours?
I feel like I could always find something.
Zoe: I feel like I'm not, I run out. You don't run out. [00:01:00] That's the difference between us two.
Heather: I know. I was, well, we'll get into this, but mm-hmm. There's a, there's this person that's slept over at my house recently and he told me she's dating, she found somebody. Well, we're, you know, we're just, it's a date we're dating.
Yeah, you're dating. Um, but he told me that I'm a robot. He's like, you literally wake up and you're like, good morning. How are you? What are you thinking? Blowjob great. Like, I'm just like on it, but, oh fuck, I forgot to do something. You stay right there.
Zoe: Okay. Oh my goodness.
[00:02:00] Nike's so excited. That's the cutest cake I've ever seen. Nike. Get the fuck down for my cake. Moving. Come here. Come here.
Heather: Dear sober Zoe. Happy birthday. Yay. You gotta chill out. You can't have this. Okay. Do I get to make a,
Zoe: I get to make a wish. Sober, hotter, sober hotter and wiser. Everybody. Okay. Do you wanna make
Heather: a wish and blow out your candies?
Zoe: Yeah, I do. Okay. You come to
me. Yay. All in one. Well, that was two. No, that was two blows. Well, yummy. Okay, well that's gonna be my lunch. 100%. Okay. Ah,
Heather: okay. Zza birthday cake. It all three years. We made a little birthday mocktail. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mine looks a little crazy right now, but I promise I will post it. Day of. Yeah, the podcast.
Perfect. Okay. So we made a little, little sprinkle [00:03:00] birthday. I love it. Yeah, it's good, eh? Mm-hmm. With some Red Bull in it. It's 10:00 AM Cheers though. And that's why I love it. Sorry, I've been like
Zoe: tugging
Heather: this down.
Zoe: Okay. Birthday. We love a
Heather: rimmer. We love a rimmer. We love a rimmer. How are, how's your mental health? Three years? Yes. Three whole years. Three whole years. How do you feel?
Zoe: Honestly, it feels like it's been three years. Everything seems right.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: I feel so solid in my sobriety. Probably like the most solid I've ever been.
Um, like I'm sponsoring a girl finally, and at the meeting last week. There was a few girls from like a rehab and they came up to me and they were like kind of interviewing me about sobriety. Mm-hmm. And like just asking like how life is now and what I did when I was first getting sober and like advice and whatever.
And I was like, oh my God, I love this. Yeah. Like, yeah. Interview me all you want, like, this is the whole point. [00:04:00] Um,
Heather: does it feel like a different, like are you like when people are coming up to you like that? Like can you see yourself in them and being like, this is so crazy that we're here now? Yes.
Zoe: I can definitely see myself in them.
I don't think, I was like, I wasn't that brave when I first started though. Like, to go up to people and like just ask 'em a bunch of questions. Mm-hmm. Like I wasn't that brave. I was like hiding behind my rehab boyfriend at most of these meetings. Yeah. Until he relapsed. But. And then you had to go out on your own.
And then I, then I went out on my own and found my sponsor. But I think, yeah, it's like, that's the whole point. And I feel so good that I can do that. Mm-hmm. And I am so good in my sobriety, but of course, stuff still happens in my life. Mm-hmm. Like, that doesn't mean that everything's perfect now,
Heather: you know?
No, but it does mean that, like, when things do come up mm-hmm. You just have a better, a better handle on not [00:05:00] only just like, sobriety Yeah. But your mental health as well. Yeah. Right. Like, that's like the whole thing. Like the more you stay sober, the more you have to deal with things sober. Yeah. And then your mental is always gonna get better.
And
Zoe: that's the thing, like when things come into my life now and like I get frustrated and upset, there's not ever a thought of like, oh, let me drink, you know? Yeah. Like, it's always like, Hey, like what am I gonna do to like, not like to feel better and to get over this?
Heather: Isn't that funny feeling? I, I do remember like.
There was a time when I was actually, I know exactly what it was. Mm-hmm. I was dating my rehab boyfriend and I had just like gone for a wax and he had like texted me and I parked my car right outside the, the liquor store just 'cause I was in Blue Village and it, that's just where parking was. Mm-hmm. And I had probably been a year sober and he broke up with me on the phone in my car.
Mm. And I was mm-hmm. Remember when I went on one date with that one guy a few months ago? Yeah. And then I cried Yeah. When he like texted me and was like, I don't wanna see you anymore. Yeah. [00:06:00] In a nice way. And I was like, that broke
Zoe: me. Well this is the thing, like you going out on dates and like having these experience like they are.
Good for you. Yeah. 'cause you're figuring out Yeah. That you can be okay when someone breaks up with you. Yeah. That you can be okay when a situationship or a relationship doesn't work out. Like it's not the end of the world. Yeah. And I think that's the point.
Heather: But all that to say, when I was sitting in my car scream, crying 'cause my mm-hmm.
Rehab boyfriend was breaking up with me. I was parked right beside the liquor store and it was almost like a joke to me. Yeah. Because I was like, oh, what a perfect thing. Mm-hmm. Like the li and I did not want it. Like, I almost was like annoyed by how ironic that was. Yeah. I was like, Ugh, I don't even want that.
Yeah. Like, that's not even gonna help me right now. Yeah. Like my heart is broken. Yeah. But
Zoe: damn. I know there's little like tests like that though. Mm-hmm. You know, it's like the universe just like tested you with like situating you in front of the LCO. Yeah. When you were getting broken up with like Yeah.
Are you strong enough to not go in and you were.
Heather: I know. Isn't that weird? I like it. It's so weird. I like when that
Zoe: [00:07:00] happens.
Heather: I know. Me too. Every now and then I like really can listen to the universe and I. Which I feel like that's what I've been doing. I feel like that's what you've been doing. Yeah.
Especially with this situation. Yeah. Just like trusting and following
Zoe: and going and like Exactly. Just like having faith that everything's working out the way it's supposed to be and yeah. Like how ironic is it that like all the girls were coming, like talking to me after the meeting and like I was feeling so good coming home and then something happened when I got home and I was tested to like how I'm gonna handle the situation.
Yeah. You know? Yeah. So it's like both I can have an amazing feeling and then two hours later feel like complete garbage.
Heather: I know. So
Zoe: it's dealing with both of those emotions together.
Heather: That's the thing. Like I feel like sobriety, and I'm sure there's other things, but sobriety in gen in definitely sobriety gives you clear.
Mm-hmm. Signs sometimes like that. Mm-hmm. Like parking outside an LCBO or having like Yeah. The best day ever and then coming home and it's like, oh, this didn't happen, but it's like, oh, your friend relapsed. Yeah. And you're like. I'm so secure in [00:08:00] my sobriety. And then that's happening and it's just so like you, you can see it where you're like, oh my God, I have two options here.
It's so clear. It's so clear. It's so clear. Yeah. Well, yeah, I think that's like what happens when you spend your entire life just like drinking or bust and then it's like everything is an option to drink or not. Yeah. You
Zoe: know, I think overall I'm obviously feeling really grateful and proud of myself and just like I try to do a lot of like reflecting on like my three year birthday.
Mm-hmm. And just how miserable I was three years ago and like how amazing I'm feeling now. It's so, it's really like sobriety. Saved my life in so many ways, and I'm a completely different person now. Mm-hmm. And I'm feeling amazing.
Heather: It's really cool. When we were in boxing and we were talking about like, it was your sober birthday.
Yeah. And it was like 9:00 AM Like, what would you, what were you doing at 9:00 AM three years ago [00:09:00] today?
Zoe: I
Heather: think
Zoe: I was probably like laying on my couch, waiting for my parents to pick me up, or I was on route to my rehab.
Heather: Yeah. Did you drink in that, that morning?
Zoe: I didn't. Okay. Did you have anything? Maybe not.
I think I was just like, I had been drinking midnight before and like, I just got home from the hospital probably, probably six hours ago.
Heather: I'm like, I'm good. I, I can't handle anything else. Yeah. That, yeah. Probably would've killed you. Honestly.
Zoe: I am, I don't know. Like, I know I didn't have my phone, maybe I didn't even have a credit card or anything to like, because I couldn't, I didn't have my phone, so I couldn't Uber eats wine or liquor.
So that was probably an aspect of why I wasn't drinking. Since I didn't have my phone. Maybe I lost my wallet at that time too. Did you ever get your phone
Heather: back?
Zoe: No. Okay. Yeah. No, that's gone. I definitely threw it out the window on my way to rehab, being like, I don't need it. I'm gonna rehab your phone. I think I did that.
Oh. Like the day before I actually went, when I got the Uber to rehab, when I was in like my drunk manic state, I was like, I'm going. Yeah. And [00:10:00] they didn't let me in 'cause I was so drunk. I think that at that Uber, I think I like threw it out the window or like threw it when I was walking on like in a bush or something.
Such weird man. Nce, I don't need it. Yeah. Rehab,
Heather: I'm gonna be fine. This is my old life.
Zoe: Damn. I must have done that. I don't remember doing that, but I feel like that's probably something that I would've done. So psychotic, so crazy.
Heather: Sometimes there's things where I look back at my drinking and my behaviors and I'm like.
Yeah. Yeah. No, you're drunk but something's happening here. Like something is like, like you know how like if you have schizophrenia in your family and then you do cocaine, that's like a big trigger for schizophrenia. And I'm like, that's something's happening here. I think with my brain. Well I think,
Zoe: yeah, we were just like, our brains were just filled with boo and like our brain cells were diminishing.
I know. I think it was, it was definitely taking a toll. 'cause I would switch to a completely different person. Yeah. Like it wasn't me when I was drinking. Yeah. Something was chemically happening in my brain to cause [00:11:00] that. And when we do have a professional on, they'll be able to like tell us everything, which I'm really excited for.
I know. Me too. Did you see that? I sent you this like guy who just got his nursing degree and he's sober and he's like dedicating his practice to sobriety. My God, I sent you it this morning. We should get him on, I don't know his
Heather: name, but shout out, you know me in the morning. I'm always just manically running around in here trying to get everything together.
Um, my mental. Let's see. My mental is probably
a five. Okay. This is interesting. Yeah. Right. But that, I think that's a really good testament to, it's like it's your sober birthday, you think you'd be a 10. Yeah. But it's like, yeah, I'm sober. I'm three years sober. And again, you said it the other day, you're like, it is just another day. Yeah. And things are going to happen.
Zoe: Like I agree that you should celebrate. Your milestones. Yes. Mm-hmm. But I think at the same time, you do just have to treat it like another day as well. Like it's good to celebrate, but it's good to just acknowledge like this Yeah. Isn't [00:12:00] like an end goal. Yeah. You know, it's not like, oh, I made it three years now.
Like, you know. Yeah. It's like, okay, let's keep going. Yeah. Let's keep, um, getting like better for next year. Yeah. You know, there's keep leveling up. Yeah. You don't just ever stay stagnant. Stagnant is scary. 'cause then you go down.
Heather: Yeah. It's very like, yes. And yeah. Like I'm three years sober and Yeah.
Tomorrow I'll be three years in one day. Like it's Exactly. Yeah. But it is. It is. Yeah. You're right. No, it is good to be like, fuck three years. That's Yeah. Crazy. 'cause it is an insane Yeah. Impossible feat that
Zoe: you did. Yeah. I think there, like obviously I'm justified because there's some mother shit going on in my life, but yeah, it's gonna be fine.
Heather: You
Zoe: wanna
Heather: share it with the class?
Zoe: I don't wanna share it with the class. I'm not gonna share that one with the class. I'm gonna share it with the class, like probably like soon. Yeah. You know, like, yeah. When. It's all figured out.
Heather: Yeah. 'cause it's important, but it's also, it's important, also important as addicts and anybody to like, keep some things to the chest until you're like, you figured shit out.
For sure. Right.
Zoe: Nike. Right [00:13:00] Nike. Tell me about your mental
Heather: health. How does it feel to have a friend who's three years sober? Oh my God, I've been so proud of you all week. I've been like, nervous, excited. Not nervous, but just like excited and proud and like, and also anytime any other person hits a milestone in sobriety, it makes me look at mine.
Mm-hmm. So I think I've just been like really proud of both of us. Yeah. I agree. And like, yeah. I just, it's so funny when I, I think about you. Well, I've been thinking about you a lot, but when I think about you, it's hot. I, I don't know you as a drunk person. Yeah. I only know you sober and I'm like, whatever.
That was hap whatever was happening to you in your demonic state, like. I'm so glad it, Ugh. It's hard to say obviously, 'cause I wasn't there with you. Mm-hmm. But like, I'm glad it happened because then I wouldn't have, selfishly, I wouldn't have like this version of Zoe in front of me and it's like the greatest fucking friendship of my life.
Mm-hmm. I'm so like, grateful. It's like you're, we're doing the same thing and you're like [00:14:00] motivating me every day.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: And it's amazing. And I just feel like you're a really good role, role model. You're a really good role model. Like you are for me, for Yeah. Younger girls, for older girls, for men, for anybody.
Like, you're just living your life in such a impressive way, honestly. And so that's really nice. Yeah. No, I just, I'm really proud of you and I'm really proud of everything and just throwing yourself into shit. It's very cool. And it makes me throw my myself into shit.
Zoe: Yeah. It's scary. I think scary. Like we definitely like feed off each other.
Mm-hmm. And like that's what a good friendship relationship is, you know? Mm-hmm.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: How do you think about the article that says having a boyfriend is not cool? Have you been seeing that?
Heather: Yeah, so I, I, I didn't wanna bring it up 'cause I was like, soy has a boyfriend and
Zoe: No, but I don't really talk about him.
Heather: Yeah. No, no, no. It's kind of like
Zoe: Hannah Burner, like doesn't talk about her husband. Yeah. Like, well, like I think I wanna be like that. I don't wanna talk.
Heather: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unless we
Zoe: like, unless we have to. [00:15:00]
Heather: Yeah. Um, I, I think our outward entire world is fucking Okay. I have like two opinions. Oh yeah. I have a direct opinion and then I have a grand scheme opinion.
Okay. My grand scheme opinion is that the entire world is against each other. Mm-hmm. And when it comes to women, any trend like that mm-hmm. Where women are pitted against each other based on your like, values and love and success. I'm like, fuck off, I don't give a shit. Yeah. I'm like, you can be. Yeah, I know.
Some really fucking lame. In my opinion, lame trad wives. Mm-hmm. And then I know some really fucking cool people who like had kids young and are married and like do a lot of fucking in vacations. Yeah. And like, so yes, there's studies of course, like women live longer when they're single. Yeah. Rather be single than like have someone who isn't fully committed or doesn't like me.
A shitty, shitty boyfriend. Yeah. Yeah. If, if I'm not like experiencing joy or growth from the person I'm with mm-hmm. [00:16:00] Then like, yeah, then yeah, you're not gonna be as cool because you're just not reaching your potential.
Zoe: I think the point is is just like for women who are in relationships, to look at their relationships.
Totally. Maybe after that article comes out like, oh, it's, I think it's cool because yeah, when we used to only have value if we were in a relationship. So it's good that it's flipping the script. Yeah. But. Is it going too far that way? You know, like it needs to be equal.
Heather: Yeah. I think like my grand scheme opinion is like all girls are cool and all girls are trying their best, honestly.
Mm-hmm. Even the shitty ones. So it's like, and to me, I am a single girl and I even think that that statement or that idea is like bitchy. Mm. Like I'm cooler 'cause I don't have a boyfriend. Yeah. Mind you. Yeah. Like people who don't have boyfriends. Yeah. We have Or partners. It's like, yeah, yeah. There's going to be a sense of loneliness that I have.
Mm-hmm. [00:17:00] But then for me to be like, yeah, but you're so much cooler when you don't have a boyfriend. It's like, okay. Yeah. Like you're just okay. Like you're just trying to do a thing. Yeah. And like, I get it. I fucking hate men. So yeah. I think you're coiler probably if you're not with a man, but like mm-hmm.
It is interesting. I. I, I don't know. I want more
Zoe: men to come out and be like, responding to it. Yeah. You know, like, how does it make the men feel?
Heather: Yeah. It would be interesting, but I think that men don't think about women. Yeah. So I don't know that they would think any other way. They'd be like, oh, well yeah, if she's married, then she's like a fucking, yeah.
It's fine if she's not, she's probably fat. It's a perfect man voice. Yeah. So, I don't know it, that's an interesting thing. I, I just wanted to ask you how you were thinking about it, but I think that's, I know. 'cause I have been thinking about it because I do that where I, I walk around single and I'm lonely.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And when I'm lonely and I'm really feeling it, then I get this like adrenaline where I, like, I, I journal and I'm like, [00:18:00] what are the best things about being alone? Mm-hmm. And like, what would my life look like if I am alone? Mm-hmm. And I'm like, yeah, I can create a really fucking solid cool person out of that.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: But also we're all looking for love. So if I find love,
Zoe: yeah.
Heather: I'm still cool.
Zoe: Yeah. I think like the point is maybe that like. Some women now aren't only looking for love, you know, like some women are like putting that literally on like the loss of their list of things to do, you know? Yeah. And
Heather: I, I kind of feel that now, like I'm 31 Yeah.
And I'm like, I'm not close to mind you, I don't want that, but like, I'm not anywhere close to being a mom. Yeah. Or a a wife. Wife. Yeah. Like, it's just not, but I, I do, I, I do go back and forth too where I'm like, no, I'm cool. I'm strong. I love what I'm doing. I love my friendships. And I'm like, but what happens when all of my friendships have partners?
Mm-hmm. And I'm alone. You know, it is like a weird thing. But then I'm like, wait, but that's [00:19:00] still okay. Mm-hmm. But I think, I think it, it's a, it's difficult for women, I think. Yeah. It, it is. We're trying to figure out how to be successful and cool and live a full life and knowing that when we do get with a partner.
If it be a man, our life is never gonna be as amazing as it would be if you're alone. Yeah. You know what I mean? Which isn't also necessarily true,
Zoe: but
Heather: it's not.
Zoe: But like, yeah. Coming home like as a, like I'm not, I was gonna say as a single woman. Right, right. But you live alone. So it's nice. I live alone for now, but like coming home and like doing whatever I wanna do and having my own say in everything is amazing.
Oh my God. And like I hope that I keep that even when my boyfriend moves in with me. Yes. Even when like I am eventually married. You know, like I think it's keeping, and that's when it's like cool to have a boyfriend when you are still your own fucking person. Yeah. When you're morphing into someone else.
Yeah. That's not fucking cool. No. This is [00:20:00] how I feel about Taylor Swift.
Heather: Yeah. Mind you, Taylor Swift didn't have a childhood, so I kind of like understand having like borderline personality disorder and just chameleon, chameleon to whoever you're with. I did that. Like dress differently. I would like act differently.
Just like, well are the, all the Kardashians dressed differently with all of
Zoe: their boyfriends? You know, like it's so fucking weird.
Heather: Well, they want a photo op, you know? It like makes sense to like
Zoe: look like even Kylie now she's switched her whole like dress code whatever. Is she still with Tisha? She's still with my husband and I dang don't like to talk about it, Tim Mote.
Shela May. But I see people like comparing like Kylie's, like dressing, just like how Lily Rose Depp is dressing. Oh, because Timothy used to date Lily Rose and honestly like their relationship was iconic. I would much rather him date Lily Rose. Yeah. She's so cool. She's so cool. But now Lily Rose is dating that girl and their relationship's so cute.
[00:21:00] I love them together. I know. I love
Heather: them too. They're like little.
Zoe: I think I had a dream about Timothy. She, me last night. Now that we're talking about this.
Heather: Fantastic. I haven't had a dream in a while.
Zoe: Oh, I, I dream when I'm
Heather: like, not that tired. Anyways, we're getting off track. No, I don't think we're, I feel like we're good.
Um, my mental health is good. I think I, I even sitting here, I have this like buzzing going on in my stomach, like I'm anxious. Like really anxious. Um, and I think that's like everything. I think that that's also just me. Do you think it's
Zoe: because of this new guy that you're seeing?
Heather: Yeah. I like, honestly, I told him I was gonna, he was like, am I gonna come up on the pod?
And I was like, yeah, this is just content babe. This is an inevitable. I, uh, yeah, I like met this person and like, actually, you know what, the reason I'll talk about this is to talk about the sex, because obviously I had sex. Okay. Yeah. Um. He knew I was sober. Mm-hmm. He also like, works at the fucking our favorite fucking restaurant.
So I'm like, this is [00:22:00] crazy. We
Zoe: went to this restaurant, we went to this restaurant for my three year birthday. Mm-hmm. And you were messaging this guy Yeah. That you had just matched with. Yeah. And we were like coming up with things to text him
Heather: back, whatever. Well, at first I was like showing the girls it was, and I, I was like, okay, these are the people, whatever, whatever.
And I like, every time I show you, you like, get me a date with someone. So Yeah. I like showed Zoe and she was like, oh, I think I've matched with this guy on field. Yeah. Yeah. Go out with him. Yeah. You guys had never like met up or anything, which I was like a bummer. But that you always want, like, when you like go out with someone, you're like, it's nice if like, you know someone you know.
Exactly. Exactly. And not that you know him, but I'm like, okay. Same vibe. I know. In proxy. I guess. Proxy in the universe's. You woulda,
Zoe: I woulda.
Heather: Yeah. Um, but he asked me. Yeah. Anyway, we were like, yeah, he, he was like, he found out that we were at this restaurant and he was like, oh, I work there. Yeah. And I was like, how We're there literally all the time.
Yeah. [00:23:00] But I guess we're outside a lot. Anyway, that was creepy. So he better, I just, I can't lose that restaurant
Zoe: and I don't think you will. Like, this is, I love it. This is gonna be good. I know. Even it's know, but even if it's
Heather: not, we can't lose that restaurant.
Zoe: We now own that restaurant. We own it. We have to buy that restaurant.
Heather: I own 51% of this company. Um, I, uh, yeah. And, and anyway, he came over, he ta he asked me about sober sex and like how it's been. Mm-hmm. And I was like, honestly not great. As you all know, I do a lot of vomiting. Mm-hmm. And, you know, we, I was like, you know, ICE sometimes helps my panic attacks if I like put it in my armpits, like vagus nerve shit.
And he was like, well just try that. Mm-hmm. So then when we did hook up, I had like a cup of ice and just kind of like kept switching it out. And I did stop. A few times. Yeah. 'cause I was like getting nauseous. And I think what that is, I was having this conversation with my therapist yesterday that like, I don't know what it's coming from.
I don't know a specific moment. I don't know when Yeah. This why this started happening. [00:24:00] But what I do know is like my body is fucking terrified. Mm-hmm. So scared. And it's scared to be touched. It's scared to be like intimate. And the nausea, I need to just stop. Yeah. Like the second it starts, I have to stop because I just have to tell my body like, oh, I trust you.
I believe you. I'm listening. Yeah. And I'll, I'm gonna keep you safe. And then maybe the more I do that, the further I can go. I
Zoe: think that's probably right. Yeah. So before you would try to push yourself a little bit. Yeah. Like last a little bit longer. Yeah.
Heather: And then when I would have, you would throw to stop throw.
I would, I would throw up or I would like shake and like mm-hmm. It's so crazy and it's, it's weird 'cause I'm like, yeah, like you're hooking up with me and I'm like, I really wanna fuck. Mm-hmm. And also this is not that easy for me. So like, unfortunately I have to find someone who's like down to be, um, down.
Yeah. Be patient with you and give you ice. And give me ice. Yeah. But [00:25:00] you, mind you, my blood dogs are a 10, outta 10, so
Zoe: it's kind of like, yeah. She doesn't throw up when she gives blowjob because Uhuh. But when you were hooking up with your ex Yeah. Like, it wasn't, he, like this new guy has made you a little bit more comfortable with like how he sees you and how he portrays you.
Right. Well, you know what I
Heather: told him, I was like my ex mm-hmm. Took it really fucking personally. Yeah. And I, I do get it. Yeah. My ex was struggling with things that I But that, but that didn't help you? It didn't help. Like, but I told him because. During sex, if you're, if someone is starting to panic or get nauseous mm-hmm.
You're in like a fuck brain, you're not really thinking. Mm-hmm. So I am like, I need you to not take it personally. Yeah. 'cause I wouldn't be here. Yeah. If I wasn't into you. Yeah. Like, I'm very wet right now. Exactly. So, and, and that was really good. 'cause I was like, I can't handle your emotions when I'm having an anxiety attack.
Yeah. And he was great. He just kinda like backed up. He asked me, he's like, do you need me to like bear hug you? Do you want me to touch you? Not touch you? And I'm like, I think just like, don't touch me. Yeah. My body needs to be alone. Yeah. [00:26:00] And he was great. And then we just like would go back in and then stop and then, and then, and then, and then,
Zoe: and then damn.
Um, damn. But yeah. That's good. That's good that you're like exploring new things and Yeah. Figuring out the sex. And I think it is just like you, yeah. You wanna hook up, you wanna have fun, but like your body, you have listen to your body first and you need to, you're, you can't just have a fucking no one night stand like everybody else.
That's just not. How you are. That's not how you operate. Your body is literally telling you that. Yeah. So just listen to that. Yeah. Like one nightstands aren't that all, aren't all that cool?
Heather: Yeah. No. First of all, they're not. Yeah. And I, I, I mean, I was thinking about this in the shower where I have all my best thoughts and I was like, I've been so mean to my body.
Mm-hmm. My whole life. Yeah. Since I was like probably four years old, being like, your feet aren't as pointed as Karen's, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, I've, I've said horrible things to myself [00:27:00] and I need to, I need to be nice to myself now, you know, I'm sober, I'm like, healthier. But it's like, yeah. And also like, take care of yourself.
Yeah. Like, enough with the fucking, like, you know, I have to like, I have to repair, make amends to my body, honestly. Like, I am so sorry that I fucking starved you and like, made you bleed out of your throat and like all this crazy shit. And like, yeah. It's like, it is okay for me to take time. And you're right, I, I am just not the person who's gonna have a one night stand.
And that's literally fine. It's
Zoe: literally
Heather: fine. We don't
Zoe: all have to have it. No, but, but I used to like literally like just text someone for like a few hours, have them come over. Mm-hmm. Fuck me. They'll leave within like an hour and a half.
Heather: Oh. That's the other thing I was thinking. I was
Zoe: like, I literally fucked like a man.
Like that literally sounds like a gay man's grinder situation, you know? Yeah. And man, you
Heather: should have just been on Grindr. I should've
Zoe: been on Grindr this point. I think they would've accepted you. I think they
Heather: would've
Zoe: too. Yeah. They've been
Heather: like, okay, she, you're one of us. Yeah. Yeah. [00:28:00] And she's drunk. So whatever.
I, uh, that was when I was sober. That was last year. I used to do that. Damn. Yeah. Okay. So you went the other way. You like got sober and then you were like, oh no, now I'm good and I'm gonna take this power back. Yeah. I was like, yeah. I think that's how I. That's maybe why I did it.
Zoe: Maybe, I don't know. Totally.
It makes sense. I was sense was like, I don't need to go. Like some of the guys that I went on dates with, sure. I would want to go out with them, but some of them I was just like, I literally just wanna fuck you right now. Yeah. Come over.
Heather: I, uh, I was thinking about this, that I would have sex with these men and I like viscerally remember my face, like slammed into the pillow.
Mm-hmm. And thinking to myself like, damn, thank God I'm fucked up. Yeah. Like, thank God I can't really feel this. Not that it was like too violent, but I was like, this is not for me. You knew that you didn't like it. Yes. And that's the point. Yeah. Yes. The first person I hooked up with after my ex who broke up with me in New York.
Mm-hmm. I was just doing that to feel something. Mm-hmm. I couldn't feel anything and I hated it, but I was like, well, at least I'm feeling
Zoe: something.
Heather: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm useful, [00:29:00] but sex is different now. Sex is like a whole thing. It's very intimate. Yeah. It's like you're in someone's body. So it's like, yeah.
That Give me a second.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Um, but other than that, I feel like my mental is like. I think I'm like riding around a seven.
Zoe: I'm anxious. Okay. That's
Heather: good.
Zoe: Yeah. That's honestly better than I was expecting you to be.
Heather: Yeah. Oh, I'm
Zoe: Barry's rising.
Heather: Yeah. I don't know. I think, I think I feel, yeah. You seem solid. I like my hair today I think.
Okay. Except sometimes I start to look like Paul Revere, which I don't love, but, um, yeah. Cool. Seven. Seven A seven. Um, yeah. Cool. Okay. Well we have a lot to talk about news, sober news. Okay. We have two sober news, as should we talk about Love is Blind a little bit since it's sober. Yeah. Did you watch the reunion?
I didn't watch the reunion. Okay. But I watched Chad Colchen watch the finale. Yeah. I didn't even know the reunion was out yet. Did they talk about the drinking?
Zoe: They didn't really talk about the drinking that much. Okay. Like they talked about Anton's drinking. Yeah. But Anton didn't really say [00:30:00] much, honestly.
The reunion was kind of underwhelming, which I feel like all it's an underwhelming are. Yeah. I thought there was gonna be more tea, but yeah. Basically, should we talk about Annie and Anton Ally and Anton Ally? Yes. I always wanna say her name's Annie.
Heather: I don't know. There is an Annie. Is there an Annie? Yeah, the homophobic one.
Oh, the homophobic. And her gay homophobic husband. He's definitely gay. Yeah, of course. You don't like hate people that much. Yeah. And like bring up, if my kid is gay, is that gonna be okay? I'm not gay because I'm not gay, so I wouldn't even know how to like have a gay kid. You're like,
Zoe: whoa. Mm-hmm. Relax baby.
Um, but yeah, I think it's just like Anton got so defensive when Ali brought up his drinking. Yeah, yeah. That's his, her name, right?
Heather: Well she was saying that like he, 'cause whatever he works like night shifts or
Zoe: something so he can Yeah. Well they both work night shifts. Oh. So they would both come home together in the morning and then he would like drink [00:31:00] a couple beers, like two beers.
Yeah. And she would not.
Heather: Yeah. And I think that, I think the concept of that is like. Yeah, that's a little crazy. Come home in the morning and drink two beers, but you're on a different rhythm. Yeah. So it it's the same as coming home. It just is at night. Yeah. It, it is.
Zoe: And she was just like frustrated that he was drinking, I guess, every single day.
Yeah. And it's fair to say that because not everyone wants to come home to someone who's drinking Yeah. Every single day. Even if it is two
Heather: beers. Yeah. Some people really, it, it's not, well, you know what it is, it's like if drinking, who was I just talking to? Doesn't matter. But drinking is not in everybody's family.
Zoe: Yeah. Like, not, yeah. You mentioned this, I think, on the podcast.
Heather: Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. With Alana. Yeah. And it was like, I, uh, I, I grew up with drinking in the house all the time. Yeah. So it's weird to me if I went to like a, a friend's house for dinner and their parents weren't drinking or like, it just wasn't a thing.
I'm like, oh.
Zoe: But I [00:32:00] thought they were weird. It would be weird to me though, as well, like if I had a partner and he would be drinking every single day, like I wouldn't like
Heather: that either. No, totally. But I think for Allie, yeah, above that is probably like, she doesn't come from a drinking family. Who knows?
Maybe she did if she was
Zoe: Brazilian. I think it was just more like she was like switching her life to be like more healthy and wellness. Yeah, and like she said that she like went back into religion and all this shit and just didn't know that he was gonna be like, like that. Yeah. I guess.
Heather: And I'm assuming he probably drinks more than we saw.
Mind you, those edit, those producers are fucking assholes. Like Yeah. They would just show him drinking. Mm-hmm. At every occasion I'm like, we don't know what's in there. Yeah, it's whiskey, but we don't know
Zoe: who was saying Did. Was that with you? Someone told us why they have the glasses. Like the, yeah. Ian was saying that, that
Heather: like, the, the glasses are gold so that we can't see what they're drinking, what they're, how much they've had.
So if they like say something fucking nuts, it's like they didn't just get there. Yeah. They've been here for two hours and they're hammered. Yeah. For the edits. I, um, what I will say is I think that Ally just [00:33:00] doesn't like Anton. Yeah. And never did. Yeah. I think like she liked the idea of having a rich partner, which great.
She
Zoe: probably thought he was richer in the pods and met him and was like, oh,
Heather: well, yeah. And then it's just like a, you're not as rich as I thought, and b, that's literally not fucking enough, you know? Yeah. And then I think with the drinking, maybe it bothered her. I think she didn't like him and she was just Yeah.
Eventually using the drinking to be like, mm-hmm. I just can't. Yeah. Because that's like valid. Yeah. So it's like I don't have to just say, I don't like you. Yeah. It's like the drinking is too much for me. Well, then he, she also blamed it on like the strip club
Zoe: thing. Right. How do you feel about that? I think that.
I'm fine with my man going to a strip club. Yeah, but not, okay. Yes, but he was, he was saying that he doesn't, he's like a frequenter.
Heather: Yeah. Well, he told her that he doesn't go, but then his friend's girlfriend was like, yeah, they literal went last week, like all the
Zoe: time, I think, which isn't probably true. I think that friend was [00:34:00] probably like being,
Heather: I don't know.
Zoe: I
Heather: don't know either. I don't know. What does she have to gain sex and drinking sex and cocaine? Those things go hand in hand, so I, I don't know. Mm-hmm. I don't, I'm not like, if my partner was like, yeah, I really like to go to strip clubs, I'd be like, oh
Zoe: yeah. If my partner, like if we were dating and he would go to the strip club, I'd be like, okay.
No. Yeah. Unless like it's a bachelorette. That's fine. Yeah. A bachelorette a b, what's this? What's the guy's version? A bachelor party.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Unless it's the bachelor
Heather: party. Bachelor parties should all go to Magic Mike. I think that's fun. If the men Oh yeah, men. The men
Zoe: watched the men, yeah. And then the men
Heather: picked up the men.
I think it would be good for everyone. I think that's just my fantasy, to be honest
Zoe: with you. I think that'd be hot. I know. We really, I wanna go to a Magic
Heather: Mike show. I know we have to go to Vegas Girl Undrunk in Vegas. Undrunk in Vegas. God, I love
Zoe: that. Perfect. Um, I think I would get so fucking like red in the face if a man was dancing on me in front of everybody.
I'd be like, oh my God. I don't know how I would respond. It would be, I crazy think I would just
Heather: be [00:35:00] like,
Zoe: mouth open. Just like
Heather: frozen. I think I'd be confused as to like, what's the act? But because I'm such a narcissist, I'd be like, do you love me? You would like, do you wanna fuck
Zoe: me?
Heather: You'd be like,
Zoe: oh my God.
He's like, excuse my number. I've never had
Heather: sex with a woman, but, sure. Um, I, uh, men, men, men, men. Men. Men. Men. What? Talking about men? Men. Men. Men. Oh, Anton. Yeah. Ali didn't like him. I think she was using his drinking as like an excuse. Yes. And she probably didn't like it. Yeah. What I did you catch this? Mm.
When. I mean, this is also a girl I think, who's coming home and checking the fridge and seeing how many beers are in there. So you're gonna get caught. There is no, mm-hmm. You have to start making excuses. Yeah. I was feeling for him a lot. Yeah. And, um, he was like, she was like, there was like more in there and whatever.
I know. And then he was like, oh, whoever, one of the guys like came over and we had some beers. Yeah. And like that whole thing was like, well, she wasn't comfortable with him coming up to the apartment. Like, did he actually come up? Did they stay in the lobby? What did they do? Yeah. And I was like, he's lying about something.
[00:36:00] Nobody came over. Yeah. He drank that himself. Oh, you think? Yes. Yeah, of course. Holy shit. That's like the most basic, it's like, oh, that's not mine. It's someone else's. Yeah. Oh, I didn't drink all that. Zoe came over. Yeah. Like. It's true. You got it's right from the get go. Yeah. They're like trying to figure out what the lie is of like when he was in the apartment, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
This is really, he was never there. Yeah. I was like, you've manipulated the situation to now the fight is, isn't even about whether you drank all of it. Mm-hmm. It was about something else. You're a great fucking addict. Yeah. I, I just, I just, it's just fun to like, I mean, it's not fun, but it is interesting when you like see addicts playing a little game.
I don't know if he's an addict, but he is hiding his drinking and that's similar. Yeah. It's, it's just like a similar habit. Yeah.
Zoe: And yeah, it's just interesting, like, I like the fact that. She was standing up for herself with not wanting a partner that drinks every day. Yeah. And like showing that that isn't what some people want.
Yeah. 'cause I think people just [00:37:00] assume that that's normal. Yeah. But for her saying that she doesn't want someone to come home and drink after work every day is kind of like powerful for like people to see that not everyone fucking wants that. And that shouldn't be the norm. A hundred percent. Yeah.
Heather: A hundred percent.
I think. I think it's a valid, I mean it goes back like it is a valid thing to ask your partner. Mm-hmm. Or to look for a partner who isn't drinking. Yeah. Like that. 'cause yeah. It you, you actually really don't have to put up with it. Even if you're like, oh yeah, he comes home, he has like three beers and then he just passes out.
It's like, well that's really fucking annoying. So like you actually, that's really fucking annoying. Yeah. When you come
Zoe: home from work, you should be having like conversations with your partner and like gossip missing them. And gossip about the day, like whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Come home
Heather: and gossip with me.
Zoe: Okay. Um, okay. Our boy, our boy. Our boy's going through it right now, and I'm very, I was very like confused to why. And it's just because the caption that she posted for her [00:38:00] birthday, or was it his birthday? I think it was, was it an anniversary? Honestly, when I first saw the picture, I just was shocked about the picture because I didn't know if it was, I thought it was her, Kristen or the kid, because she's so fucking tiny.
She's so tiny. I know. And he, she's so tiny and he's so big's so big. So big. Yeah. Honestly, their sex is probably amazing.
Heather: Yeah. Well, let's talk about it because I, it was brought up yesterday in our meeting and I was like, ah, I'm scared. Yeah. I'm scared to talk about this because essentially what's going on is there was, Kristen posted a picture of her hugging Dax mm-hmm.
For a, and it was the 12 year anniversary of like their marriage and being together and. Her caption was like a stupid joke. It was like to the like, happy anniversary to the man who said he would never kill me. A lot of husbands kill their wives. Yeah. Even though, like he said that he is inclined to
Zoe: or something like that.
Yeah. He has, he has like the
Heather: inclination. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like the, like he, he, it would be basically like if she died, he'd get all her money. Yeah. Like, I have reason to [00:39:00] do it. Mm-hmm. But I won't kill you. Yeah. To me, it, it was a joke to me. That's also my humor. Yeah. Like, I literally am always like, oh my God, I'm gonna, I love you.
I'm gonna rip your head off and stick it on my wall. Yeah. Um, and also like, it's funny to be like, at weddings to be like, the person that you just married is the person that's most likely to kill you. Yeah. Like, that's a joke because it's fucking real. Yeah. And like obviously he was joking and people took that.
I think people have been trying to take down Dax Strep. Yes. Did we even say Dax Strapper? Yeah. We've been trying to, they've been trying to take him down for a while. And I, I have a lot to say about it, but I, it makes me nervous because putting trust in any man mm-hmm. And looking up to them in a way is so scary I find for women because they are like one sexual assault away from like, fucking it all up.
Zoe: Yeah. You know? [00:40:00] Well, it always made me a little bit cringe. Like when, like, 'cause he's still really close with Austin. What, what's his name? Mila Kune is Oh, Ashton Kucher. Ashton Kutcher. It makes me nervous too. That makes me nervous. Yeah. I didn't wanna ever talk about that, but now when this is all coming about,
Heather: yeah.
It makes me fucking nervous. That makes me nervous. Someone was saying that, um, Kristen Bell played the cool girl role in order to get into this marriage, and essentially what that means, they were saying like nineties girls. Mm-hmm. You had to be everything. Like you had to be hot, Megan, Fox, all that shit.
Like you had to be athletic. Be so fucking sexy, be cool. Like we thought guys wanted to like play video games. Like it's really weird. And like now she's like with this guy and people are like, well now she's just brainwashed because he's like such a dick. And I'm like, Hey, I don't, I don't think she's like a weak bitch.
Zoe: Like I think
Heather: she knows exactly what she's doing. I think [00:41:00] she's very
Zoe: strong. Yeah. Like to be with an addict is very strong. Oh my God. Yeah. Like, you know, like he is a crazy person in an addict way. Not in a bad, horrible, like man way. Yeah. If anyone listens to his podcast, they would've read that caption and be like, oh my God, that's so funny.
Like, you know, like no one would think twice about it. It's these people that don't understand who Dax is, who's taking this comment and running with it. Yeah. I would've never thought twice about that comment. Mm-hmm. Um. I think Dax is an open book, and I think like the, everyone's like running with that and like making it like a bad thing about him.
Mm-hmm. Because he is so open with like saying he's always so, um, like safe in his relationships. Like he thinks he's so great in relationships. Yeah. And he's so down on himself about everything else in his life. Mm-hmm. But like, I don't know, he's just such an open book that everyone can clip these things and make it seem like he's a horrible person.
Yeah. [00:42:00] But he's not, because he talks about these things in such an open way and he knows what his faults are and he speaks about them. He knows what he needs to work on and he speaks about them.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Anyone who listens to the podcast knows that. Yeah. Um, mind you, he's also not perfect. He says that he's not perfect all the time.
Yeah. And
Heather: it's like, I think because I like him and because I obviously have more empathy for him, I'm like. He's not supposed to be perfect. I don't want him to be perfect. I'm interested in him making mistakes and watching him go through them in like a really real way mm-hmm. That we never get to see.
Yeah. You know, like, we don't really like the day seven episode or Damn. Yeah. I mean, the day seven episode got me sober. Yeah. It ch like, I would, I would not be sitting here Yeah. Without Dax and Monica in day seven and him being open about his Yeah. Addiction and his relationships and his sex and all of this shit.
It's like, it's so important to me specifically. Yeah. I'm like, and it's
Zoe: so important for so many people. Like Yeah. Everyone who is an arm [00:43:00] cherry like, knows that about him. Yeah. And it's just like, the internet is such a wild beast and like Yeah. The men, like men do get mm-hmm. Like, they take one thing and run with it.
I get it. Like, we should be weary of all men, but I think he knows that he's not a perfect person. Mm-hmm. And that's the whole point of like him.
Heather: Yeah. I'm gonna maybe try and flip the script on it a little bit because. There's this thing going around. There's um, where he just, all these comments he makes about Kristen and listen, listening to armchair expert, I, I'm a day one armchair.
Every time he brings up Kristen, it's always made me, I don't dunno if it's made me uncomfortable, but there's not. But it's the thing, he builds her up so much. He puts her on, puts her on a pedestal. Putal. Yeah. She's beautiful. She's crazy fucking talented. She can do all these things. No one is like her. No one is like her.
And I, which is true. It is true. And I think she [00:44:00] knows that that
Zoe: is true. Well,
Heather: that's the thing. Yeah. I'm like, I think I want a man to hype me up that much too. No, I think I do too. I think when I listen, and maybe that's what it is, right? Yeah. Like I have never had someone hype me up like that. Yeah. Like a man in my corner.
Yeah. But also sometimes when he says it, I'm kind of like. Wait, we know. Yeah. Don't wait. Why are you saying like, we know that she's amazing. She's amazing way without you telling us like we fucking mm-hmm. I don't know. Sometimes I'm like, what is this? Like, why are you being so gushy? But then I'm like, I don't know.
She's fucking amazing. Mm-hmm. So maybe that's why they're putting on some sort of show. Mm-hmm. And what I know about being an addict and what I know about addicts is that there is a facade. Mm-hmm. And I can see it. And so when he's talking about Kristen in these like big ways, I'm either like, he's a, trying to be super generous and make sure that people know that like he [00:45:00] appreciates his wife.
Mm-hmm. I don't really think that's what's going on. Maybe. Okay. Follow me. Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna really pay attention. I think I did this yesterday and I almost texted you about it, but I didn't. Okay. I'm sitting here, I'm trying to rearrange all of this because I fucking hate my background and I'm looking at your shot and I'm getting a perfect shot.
Every time I sit there I'm like, this is gorgeous. This is so easy. And I we're also coming off two weeks where everyone on our team meetings and this is fine, has been like, Zoe, you looked so fucking pretty. Yeah. We come off of two weeks of that and so I'm fine. I know you're pretty. Mm-hmm. I know. I'm pretty, it's okay, but it's, it's eating at me a little bit.
Yeah. And so yesterday I was going to text you 'cause I was in a good mood and I was doing all this shit and I was gonna text you and be like, I swear to God, Zoe, like, you're just gonna be one of these people who always gets a good shot. Mm-hmm. It's not gonna be an issue. Anytime a camera's on you, it's gonna be perfect.
As I'm texting [00:46:00] this to you, you're gonna be one of those people that always has a good shot. I know exactly what the fuck I'm doing. Mm-hmm. I'm protecting myself for when. So that everyone just knows that like, Zoe's prettier than me because of something. Mm. I don't look as good as Zoe because of the shot, because of something.
Yeah. I'm like early on setting everybody up to know that, like, oh, I know, I know that Zoe looks better than me, but like, it's fine. Yeah. 'cause she has a perfect shot. Yeah. It's like I knew what I was doing and I was going into this whole thing. I had to stop myself to be like, no, no, this is fine. Mm-hmm.
Like, I'm just, I, I think I'm trying to be relevant and make sure that, like, I also, 'cause obviously if someone gives you a compliment, it feels to me like it's taking away from me. Mm-hmm. Like, Zoe, you look so pretty that Heather, you look like shit. Which is like, which is not what they're saying at all.
Not what everyone said. They probably like, oh, Heather looked pretty and like, she [00:47:00] didn't need to hear that, that sweater I was doing or, or I didn't or whatever. But it was, it's just so. I know what Dax is doing because he's like putting Kristen on a pedestal, always talking about, I can't believe I'm with her.
She's with me. I'm a piece of shit. I'm a piece of shit. Yeah. So that people, people know that he knows that he doesn't like
Zoe: deserve her Yes. Or anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I
Heather: think he's trying to get ahead of the game with it. Yeah.
Zoe: Like
Heather: no one ever is gonna be like that guy's with Kristen. It's like, because he
Zoe: already knows because he already fucking knows he doesn't deserve her.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. And it is really interesting to watch him do that. 'cause that's what I think he's doing.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And that's a very addict
Zoe: behavior though, right? It's so, that is very like relatable to us because like we think in the most outrageous ways possible. Oh my God. Exotics. So, yeah. Yeah.
Heather: It's like watching him talk about Kristen is like the like pins with like the red string and I'm like, you are just coming back to why you're not good enough.
Mm-hmm. And it's like. [00:48:00] It's okay, sweetie. Mm-hmm. We love you. You're amazing. Kristen's amazing. Mm-hmm. We like you both the same. Yeah. To me in my head, you're the same level of fame. You're the same level of niceness. Like I don't really care.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But I would urge people to look at the things that Dax is saying a little more earnestly.
Yeah. Because I really think he loves her and I think, I believe that he not only loves her, but I think he likes women. Yeah. I think he appreciates women and he listens to them from listening him to him for the past, whatever. That's the thing. Over a decade, I'm like, I, I've seen so much. Safety from him in the way that he's able to talk about being a piece of shit.
Yeah. You know,
Zoe: I think the people that are like running with this and saying all this crazy stuff about mm-hmm. Him aren't people that listen to the podcast Yeah. Are people that just like read one line things and go with it. Which I get it. That's what the internet does. Yeah. You know, like whatever. Um, and
Heather: mind you, I'm usually the fir one of the first people [00:49:00] to be like, yeah, fuck that guy.
Yeah. I don't even give a shit if Het didn't do it. Collateral. I don't care. Get him outta here, put him in jail.
Zoe: But like, we love Jack Shepherd and like, we also love him because he's not, because he has helped mm-hmm. Get sober and he's just like, I think he's a really amazing person for sober people.
Heather: Yes, I do too.
Zoe: Um,
Heather: and I don't even think it's this thing of like, he's a bad guy, but he helps people who are sober. Like, no, I Don's think he's a bad
Zoe: guy at all. No, I think
Heather: he's a good guy. Yeah. I think he has isms. I think he like, yeah. Overspeak sometimes or like really put drive, tries to drive a point home. But it's like.
Wait, but then the other guy? Mm-hmm. David, David Arbor. Har Arbor. Yeah. Arbor Harbor.
Zoe: Arbor. Arbor, okay. I don't age is silent. I don't know as much about this one. I don't either. I know that he is an addict as well. Yeah. And he's been sober since 24. That's all I really know about him. Yeah. I did that research yesterday.
He basically has cheated on Lily Allen. Um, made her like, want an open relationship, [00:50:00] whatever. I think that's like the most I know about that. Oh. But then I went down a rabbit hole last night. Perfect. Thank you. And, um, apparently Lily Allen is also not a good person at all. Oh, great. Yeah.
Heather: What'd she do?
Zoe: I think she, um, slept with a guy who was married and like, fully knew and acted like she didn't know.
Heather: Oh,
Zoe: yeah.
Heather: Whoops.
Zoe: Whoops. Who would do that? Like
Heather: who? In their right mind would do that. Don't know anyone who would do that personally. I wouldn't even look at a man if I knew he was in a relationship. But those are just my morals. She
Zoe: did like other, like, just like other weird little things I think that aren't this, TikTok was just saying that she's also not a good person either.
Mm-hmm. Like the two of them were just like not good, but that doesn't, obviously he shouldn't have fucking cheated on her. Yeah. So many times. Addicts. Addicts, he was apparently being [00:51:00] weird around like Millie when they were filming Stranger Things. No, and like acting like his dad. Her dad like, I don't know.
And also apparently he was like housing some sober person, a woman in his, A woman, a young woman. A young woman at his house years ago and he wasn't there and then she jumped from his balcony and died. Which like what the fuck happened there? Which also, but I'm, at the same time, I'm like, okay, well at least he was trying to help sober people.
No,
Heather: I'm sorry. I'm gonna stop that thought right now. I know sometimes you have empathy or you like want and this isn't attacking you. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm seeing where you're going. I know. And this is my dead stop. Yeah. Where I'm like, fuck you. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. You are a man. You're sober.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: You're helping, you're in aa.
Yeah. You know?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: That you should not have a young vulnerable, just off [00:52:00] fucking drugs girl. Yeah. Living in your house. Mm-hmm. Fuck you. Yeah. Because you're gonna have sex with her. That's, sorry. My one of the counselors at my fucking rehab did that. Yeah. And like kept taking girls home and then would keep catching these sexual assault charges.
Yeah. 'cause he was fucking them. 'cause they were on drugs living in their home. And then he would like eventually get them to go get drugs for him.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: What reason? Mm-hmm. Would a man have to let a young woman, even if she's like on the street mm-hmm. Live in his home?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Give her a fucking, buy her a hotel room for a month.
Yeah. Like no help
Zoe: in other ways and bringing her to your house.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. We're not doing savior, we're not doing hero. We're not doing young girls living in our homes. Yeah. So I think he was a little bit of that,
Zoe: you know, so sick of that shit. I don't know much else about him, but I hate that they're comparing Dax to him because that's a whole other fucking ball game.
Yeah. You know, that's nothing what [00:53:00] Dax is doing. No. Um, Dax has never cheated on Kristen. No. But he also fuck
Heather: openly talks about like, there is a world in which they both cheat on each other. Yeah. Or like, they don't stay together. Like they're very, he's very open about all of it. Open. Yeah. Like. Maybe people just don't wanna hear it.
Like maybe that's, I mean, there's also people are being triggered by different things. Yeah. And if you're in a relationship with someone who you think is a narcissist, like that's obviously hurtful, but I, yeah. Yeah. But it does show that like sober people, but sober men. Mm-hmm. Just be fucking careful.
Yeah. Like, yeah. They're not God, just 'cause they're sober, you know? No, I think I obviously, but we listened to Dax a lot. Yeah. I don't think Dax is
Zoe: God, but I do
Heather: really love him.
Zoe: Wow. So this is like the first time that you have supported a man, the one and only man that you will support that shepherd. Yeah,
Heather: that's true.
And I will admit my bias towards him because [00:54:00] he got me sober. Yeah. Um, but at the same time, like I. I'm not gonna ever die on a hill for any man. Yeah, I won't. So like if, if it turns out that, yeah, no, I really don't like the way that you treat women then, shit. Yeah. But like, I like that you get people sober and I like that you talk about it 'cause it's literally inspired this whole fucking thing.
Yeah. So I think what I'm gonna do, I was gonna do this at the end, but I think what I wanna do is like really re just like reset the pod now. Okay. I'm gonna change it up, switching it. I'm gonna be say, say some really nice things to you. Oh wow. Okay. So I put out a little thing on Insta to, for all of you to message me and tell me what you like about Zoe.
So, oh, I'm just gonna read some little ones. Okay. This is for your third birthday.
Zoe: Okay. Some of these are
Heather: cute.
Zoe: Oh my God.
Heather: Um, speaking of your laugh, congrats Zoe. Proud of you. You have an infectious laugh. It's lovely. Bye [00:55:00] Ian. Friend of the pod. Bye is crazy. Bye is crazy, by the way. Bye. Is crazy. He's in Love you, Ian.
He's, I've only met
Zoe: you once, but I love you.
Heather: Congratulations on three years, Zoe. I hope you take a moment to recognize what an accomplishment this is. I'm so proud of you and how far you've come. You're an inspiration to young women showing them what self-love, courage, and authenticity look like.
Zoe: Fuck.
Yeah.
Heather: That's from Mia. Who? I don't think you know.
Zoe: Mia. Is that my, um, counselor in rehab? Oh, maybe Mia. Mia, Mia. Let me see. I don't know. Oh, I just didn't, oh, I'll show you later.
Heather: I think that is my counselor from rehab. That's nice. I know. Oh, my counselor from rehab is like a predator. Damn. She, it would be interesting to have her on.
Zoe: Mia. Would you wanna come on? You wanna come on the pod? Like come on the pod. Oh my God. Yeah. I haven't seen her like, I think I did like maybe three Zoom calls with her after rehab. Yeah. Like one a month. [00:56:00] So I haven't seen her in That's so nice. Probably two and a half years. Thanks
Heather: Mia.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Um, this one is, this one.
I, I, I don't know why. I just like, I'm always cry when I think about you. So proud of the woman you are. Love watching you shine and chase your dreams. Can't wait to see what you make this next year. Everything is possible from your response. Christy.
Zoe: Aw Chris. So cute.
Heather: And then of course, of course anything is
Zoe: possible.
That's only anything is only possible because of you, Christie.
Heather: I know.
Zoe: Isn't that nice? It's so nice.
Heather: Congratulations on three years to our favorite girl. Zoe, you seem to handle sobriety with such grace and ease. What would you say at the three year mark is something you still struggle with and how do you manage that in awe of you always?
Alexia?
Zoe: Oh, Alexia. Coming in with the question. Coming in with the question. Okay. What is something I still struggle with control, I think. In what aspect? In the aspect of like when plans flop. I don't have like, control of that. So you hate the change of [00:57:00] plans? I hate a change of plans so much. Mm-hmm. I literally, like when plans change, I just go home and just like rot in bed and like I, if I had a plan to do something and it cancels, like, okay, well just do something else.
Then Zoe like, make another plan. But there's, I, I was like, oh, okay. That sucks. Yeah. Rot in bed. Yeah. It's hard for me to get out and to like do something else then if a plan changes. I don't know. Like, I hate that. Well, I wonder what that
Heather: is because I used to feel like after I'd throw parties in Boston and everyone would leave, I'd get really fucking sad.
I'm like, all my friends are going home. But now if people cancel plans, I'm like, oh, fuck yeah. Yeah. Like, I love it and I wonder what that is. Like, if you're just so like, ready to go Yeah. You love to do shit and then it's like, oh, now I'm delayed.
Zoe: Maybe it's because like I know I need to like, I like having a full day.
Mm-hmm. I like. Not like having too much time, like alone at home with my thoughts. Yeah. Like I know I can go [00:58:00] stir crazy.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I think that might be a part of it, but I think I just like knowing what my day is gonna look like. Yeah. And having everything set up and being like ready for the day.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And then when things start to crumble, I'm like, oh, well I have no control in anything, so I'm gonna seclude in my house.
Like a plan changed two weekends ago and I literally just spent all day in bed. Mm-hmm. Get up and do something else, then you fucking bitch. Like, I dunno, but in my mind, can't, I can't, can't do it. I literally can't. I'm like, okay, well this stays
Heather: a write off then whatever. Oh, that is how I feel about cleaning the house.
Yeah. I'm like, no, you can't. It's like some things are just like really hard. Mm-hmm. You get triggered and you're like, yeah, but like, I wonder what that is. I know. Well, now that we're in questions, I have more questions for you. Okay? Okay. Um. Okay. Tell me three ways these can be like short. Mm-hmm. Or you can go into it, whatever you want.
Three ways that your relationship with yourself has changed.
Zoe: I feel like I'm being [00:59:00] interviewed. You are. I love it. Mm-hmm. All about me today. Mm-hmm. That's how it should be. Um, as it is being a little brat,
Heather: they're gonna be like, both of your knees are up knees. Damn it.
Zoe: We are twins.
Heather: We are twins.
Zoe: Okay. Three things that I
Heather: love about that,
Zoe: ways that changed about myself, sorry.
Yeah.
Heather: Three ways your relationship with yourself has changed. Okay.
Zoe: Well, obviously I hated myself before and I think that comes with like, I thought I was depressed. Mm-hmm. Um. I just like hated being alone with myself. So obviously I hated myself if I hated, if I didn't like being alone
Heather: a hundred percent.
My counselor at rehab, he said, if you can't be sober and sit alone with yourself and be bored mm-hmm. We've got a big fat problem because that's the person you're gonna be with for the rest of your life. Yeah. So that
Zoe: has definitely changed. Like I do love being by myself now. Mm-hmm. Um, I do love coming home [01:00:00] and just like doing my fucking routine and having alone time.
I love that. I love that I'm not scared to be alone. Mm. You know, because I think that was a big fear of mine before, but now it's completely changed and I love so good who I am and I love being alone and like the depressed like self. 'cause I like hated that I was depressed all the time. I was never actually fucking depressed.
I was just a drunk, you know? Yeah. Well, like you're chemically depressing. I was chemically depressed. I was causing myself to be depressed. It was all a makeshift of. My fucking drinking that I was feeling, the way that I was feeling. So I guess like, I like that I'm not like a depressed person unless like plans change, obviously, then I get a little bit sad.
Yeah. But those like come like I am, when I'm laying there in bed, knowing that I'm like not feeling great. I know I'm gonna snap out of it the next day. Yeah. It's just like an episode. It's just like a little thing and whatever. Mm-hmm. I'm, it's not that big of a deal. Yeah. [01:01:00] But I guess I like those two things.
And another thing about myself that I've like three ways your relationship with yourself has changed. Yeah. Okay. So you like yourself? I like myself. I like, I'm not depressed. Mm-hmm. Not a depressed little girl. And I guess I like that I am capable of doing anything. Mm-hmm. You know, like, yeah. Going on runs even like I was never, I never thought I could be a fucking runner.
I was hoping you'd never be. I know. I was hoping I would never be too, but it's great. I love that I can do hard things. Totally. I think, I think that's what it is. I like that I can push myself and make myself uncomfortable in these like situations and these runs, whatever, but I can trust myself that I like.
Got it. Yeah. Trusting myself is big and just like knowing I can do hard things is huge. Like, 'cause none of these things are [01:02:00] easy. Mm-hmm. It's just like I pushed myself. Yeah. I truly, my truly God. Yeah. Push myself.
Heather: Yeah. Even like boxing, like mm-hmm. It's easier than running, but the going to boxing, like making a decision to like do something new.
Mm-hmm. Or like, put yourself out there. Be vulnerable is so
Zoe: fucking scary. But it's not easier than running. It's a, I think it's the same hardness. You can run it if you want. I
Heather: think. But the mental for me, okay. For me, the mental running, I can't boxing. That's true. Like I move around a lot. Yeah. You know, there's different things.
Zoe: And like to motivate yourself to run is a huge thing. Oh my God. Mind you,
Heather: the other day in boxing, I, you weren't there. I was. Mm-hmm. It was my 7:00 AM and we were learning this fucking 49 punch combo, which is just boxing, punching. Is it 44? Is it 44? I think it's 44. Oh, who knows. You're right. For sure. It's never gonna be me.
That's right. With numbers, but it's basically like punching choreography. Yeah. And I kept fucking it up. Like I was having a mental [01:03:00] delay every time before Woodpecker. I just kept like forgetting. I love Woodpecker. Woodpecker, my favorite. I don't it. Oh, I don't like it. Yeah. You hop out, hop in in a nice casual way.
The way I do it is like, like everyone knows what punch is coming next. Yeah. I don't like that, but I, I. I kept fucking it up and I felt my body start to like go. Mm-hmm. And I, at some point Rachel was like, do you need a break? And I was like, yes. And also I need to tell you that I'm going to hell. Like my body is being sucked, sucked into hell.
This isn't a thing where it's like, like, I'm an addict. This isn't a thing where it's like, oh, do it again. Or like, oh, I fucked up. It's like, I'm such a fucking piece of shit. Why did I ever get sober? I can't do fucking anything. My brain is so scrambled. I'm literally so dumb. Why have a podcast if you like, can't keep your shit?
It goes
Zoe: everywhere.
Heather: Yeah. And so fast and hard that like, I was saying it to her because I was like, I'm just gonna say this out loud so I can like crawl back up.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: But it's, my brain just goes, you know, and Rachel is probably like, okay, Rachel was [01:04:00] actually Rachel. I was like, I'm gonna to hell. And she was like, all right, well I'm right here with you.
I was like,
Zoe: I love that. I
Heather: know I love her, Rachel. But, um, but yeah, I, I think like the mental, yeah, it's, it is so much. And like coming from being an addict, doing nothing, not trusting yourself into like. You're fucking running 10 Ks. I'm like, whatcha
Zoe: you doing? I know. It's amazing. What am I doing, by the way?
But I think it's just, maybe it is me, like just trying to keep pushing myself. Yeah. And seeing what else I can fucking do. Like, I don't know. The world is yet wasy. Yeah, it is. Thanks to
Heather: Kristy. Thanks to Kristy. Thanks. Christy. Gimme three rapid fire answers. One word. Okay. Okay. Three things that are better.
Sober. Well, sex.
Zoe: Sex. Honestly going out. Mm. Going out. It's better. You think it's better? I think so. Okay. Why? Because I remember the whole goddamn night. Yeah. And I can wake up and have a day still.
Heather: Do you, are you [01:05:00] ever nervous when you go out? Are you ever like, Ooh, like do you get that like panic before you see your friends like, oh God, I'm going into a social situation.
Zoe: No, no, you're fine. Okay. No, now no. But like on, obviously in the early days, yes. Mm-hmm. Um, but now, no. Okay. I think, yeah, sex going out. Honestly, I'm having a way better time going out and partying now. Like, fuck Yeah. Sleeping.
Heather: I was gonna say sleeping too.
Zoe: Sleeping.
Heather: Just the
Zoe: mere fact that you are sleeping Yeah.
Is like so helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Like I just couldn't ever get to sleep when I was drinking unless I was in a blackout. Mm-hmm. And then I would wake up and piss. So, and then if I wasn't blackout when I was trying to sleep, I always would have to have, um, a show on, on my laptop to fall asleep too, because I didn't feel safe to go to sleep with nothing on.
And now I think I can't go to sleep with anything on in the background because I'm triggered to how fucking miserable I would be trying to sleep with the TV on. You know what I mean?
Heather: I totally know what you mean. And you're [01:06:00] like always kind of awake and then you wake back up in superstores still on and you're like, oh my God, oh my god, my life.
And you're like, I can't even really move around in my bed 'cause there's so garbage everywhere. Yeah. I would wake up at like. 3, 5, 6 am in withdrawal. Mm-hmm. And then, thank God I always had my under the pillow wine. Yeah. Did you do that? Were you waking up in the middle of the and have to drink?
Zoe: Well, I don't know if I could save booze for the next day.
Like I always went. Oh, it's a, it's a crafty little system. I had, I always went in to like, to get my liquor for the day in hopes that it would last till the next morning, so I didn't have to like, go back the next morning. Yeah. But it just, it wouldn't last. I would always wake up like maybe with like one swing left.
Mm-hmm. You know, that I would obviously drink in the morning, but it wasn't ever enough. Yeah.
Heather: I was pretty much like three to four bottles a day every day. And then I remember like, there would be mornings where I would wake up and I'd be like, there are six empty bottles of wine on the, I'm like, I get, I guess because if I, I guess I [01:07:00] ordered more.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I drank more in the morning than I thought I did, but I'm like, damn. Like you are just, you are just outta your fucking mind. But yeah, like sometimes I wouldn't save it. Mm-hmm. And then sometimes I would, yeah.
Zoe: It, it's all, it was always a nice surprise to wake up. And there would still be boos.
Yes. But then sometimes I would like hide my booze around the house. So then I would like be searching for it for hours at like 7:00 AM Just like, where the
Heather: fuck did thing? It's like a tampon. You're like, I, I know there's always a tampon in the house. Yeah. Like
Zoe: my booze
Heather: is somewhere even like a drop.
Zoe: Ugh.
I know. Well, and I saw this TikTok of this girl saying like, I'm the type of alcoholic that when I threw a party, I would, when I was cleaning up, I would drink everyone's leftover drinks. I would never pull them down the drain and throw it out. I would sip everyone's drinks. I was that type of drunk too. I would go to bars and like if I saw a drink just laying out, I would drink it.
I did something worse. Oh my God. What did you do? [01:08:00]
Heather: Oh my God. Tell me, I just remembered this. This is in New York and we had a party at our apartment and apparently there's a lot of things that I was told I did last night. I don't know. Everyone was drinking, smoking, whatever I was doing that. I was just picking up cups and drinking them and I drank us cup of cigarettes.
Oh, cigarette butts. Like in beer. And I just did, you know? No, no. I didn't know. Yeah. 'cause I guess I, I was just fucked. Yeah. And I did it and I was like, it was so scary and I can like fully taste it. Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: The shock of having, oh yeah. Oh,
Zoe: I mean, I'm sure I did something like that too when I was in a blackout, so I don't remember.
But like, yeah, just
Heather: a warm room, temp wine. Everything is gross. Okay. Did you give me three? Yeah, I did. Going out sleeping and sex. Yeah. I love sex. I love sex too. Okay. Now, this past year. It's been quite the fucking year. It really has. Tell me [01:09:00] three things that you are
Zoe: Mm.
Heather: I would say grateful, but also like three things that you're just like, when you look back at this year, you're like, damn.
Three. Yeah. Those are good. Three,
Zoe: a good three things. Mm-hmm. Starting this podcast with you, obviously. Mm-hmm. Like, we are only doing this because we're both sober. Yeah. So like, this would never be able to happen if we were still drinking. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. This podcast like, has given me like a reason to be here too, you know?
Like it is giving me such fulfillment, um, which is great. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. Um, obviously like getting my boyfriend, getting him. I picked him up, getting him, choosing him. Come here, my little boy. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, I think. This relationship has obviously, like he's taught me, like I told him this.
I [01:10:00] was like, I kind of saved your life in a way that like, I helped you become sober. Like Yeah. To help him through sobriety, because he was pretty newly sober when I first met him. Like, I've saved you to stop being a fucking addict and you saved me from not being a fucking whore.
Heather: Yeah. Oh my God. It is so true.
It is
Zoe: so true. Like, I never thought I was capable of really like loving someone or maybe being loved. Um, so like, I think like having this relationship has taught me a lot about like patience and love. Mm-hmm. And like sacrifices I guess too. Like Yeah. It is a, it is a partnership. Um, yeah. It's your like
Heather: first real sober It's my,
Zoe: yeah.
Relationship. Yeah. So I think I am like growing a lot with him. I think. I'm so happy that I'm sober. I could never like, have a relationship with someone. Mm-hmm. This good and solid. Yeah. And stable and healthy [01:11:00] if I was drinking. Mm-hmm. Um, so that's just like a testament of being so like I could never have this relationship if I was drinking either.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Pod relationship, like, I've made a lot of really good sober friends this year too. Like I've become way closer with Alexia.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, Carly, like I You have a sponsee. I have a sponsee now. Like, I think just the sober women in my life. Mm-hmm. I'm so happy to have them. And they're the best
Heather: ones. They are.
God sober women are so fucking. Yeah. And even like a
Zoe: couple of my friends, like started looking at their drinking and like have stopped or cut down. Mm-hmm. So I think just being someone to look up to in that is just amazing. So. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I love being sober guys. I
Heather: highly recommend it. Highly recommend it.
Yeah. It's so good. I'm so proud of you. It's like, I, it's been a week since your birthday, but I really am so proud of you. Mm-hmm. And I'm so grateful. I mean, I texted you the other day so [01:12:00] annoying, but I'm like, I'm so glad we're friends. Yeah. I
Zoe: loved that random little text. I really did. I was
Heather: just like, thinking about you.
I don't even know why I was working on something. Mm-hmm. And I was like, fuck. Thank God that I'm not doing this alone. Yeah. Like, I mean, I always think I'm doing everything alone, but I'm like, this is the best. And even
Zoe: like doing life alone, even if we didn't have this, like mm-hmm. Having someone to like go through life with.
Yeah. Who is sober, who knows like everything about mm-hmm. What this takes. It's so nice.
Heather: It's so fucking nice. I love,
Zoe: love it. Love you.
Heather: I love you. Love you. I'm proud of you and I'm proud of you. Happy three years Zoe, and we will see you all back next week. Next week.
Zoe: Hey, proud of you. Proud of you. Bye bye.
Heather: Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Undrunk podcast and or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com. [01:13:00]
Zoe: I don't know where Heather went to and Nike, I don't know if you're being too loud with that toy kind of concerned. Do you think we can give you another toy?
It's not as loud, or can you go to sleep? Do dogs just like go to sleep randomly? I don't know what dogs do.
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