#42: You Saved My Life, Dude (feat. Christie G)

In this episode of Girl, Undrunk, Heather and Zoe sit down with Christie, Zoe’s sponsor and a decade into sobriety, for an honest, grounded conversation about addiction, recovery, and what it really means to stay sober long-term. Together they talk about mental health check-ins, the realities of opioid addiction, harm reduction, relapse, and surrender, as well as the quiet, unglamorous work of choosing recovery every day. This episode goes beyond surface-level sobriety talk, offering a raw look at resilience, trust, and how sobriety reshapes relationships—with substances, with others, and with yourself.

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You Saved My Life, Dude: Transcript

[00:00:00] Heather: This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening.

[00:00:27] Welcome back to Girl Undrunk. I'm Heather.

[00:00:30] Zoe: I'm Zoe. And today we have a very special guest. Christie, welcome to Girl Undrunk. 

[00:00:36] Christie: Thank 

[00:00:37] you so 

[00:00:37] much. I'm happy to be my 

[00:00:39] Zoe: savior, my sponsor, my mom, friends. Aww, love you. Yeah. So 

[00:00:44] Heather: Christy, this is actually very exciting because Christie is Zoe's sponsor. Mm-hmm. And you've been Zoe sponsor for how long?

[00:00:51] Whole time Zoe's 

[00:00:52] Zoe: been sober. Yeah, the whole time. Okay. I probably met you what, like a month out of rehab month outta rehab? Yeah. Not very 

[00:00:58] Christie: long. 

[00:00:58] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:00:58] Heather: Mm-hmm. That's wild. So it's [00:01:00] been three years. Yeah. Do you usually keep sponsees for a long time? 

[00:01:04] Christie: It depends on the sponsee. Okay. Everyone's journey is different.

[00:01:07] Right. Okay. Interesting. But I do have people that I've been with for. Like eight years, nine years kind of thing. So Yeah. 

[00:01:14] Zoe: Because you're the longest sobriety that we've had on the podcast. Okay. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. You're 10 years. Cool. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:20] Christie: That's cool. Yeah, I know. It's very exciting. 

[00:01:22] Heather: Yeah, I know.

[00:01:24] It's, it's an honor. I'm like, first of all, I'm like, you're amazing. How did you do that? And also like, I'm so excited to learn. Mm-hmm. You 

[00:01:32] Christie: cute? A decade. A whole decade. Decade. It's crazy. 10 years, three months in one day today. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. What's your sober date? November 8th, 2015. Wow. 2015 is crazy. I was just like, just 

[00:01:45] Heather: starting my at 2015.

[00:01:47] 2015. Yeah. I would've been in my last or second last year of college. Mm-hmm. It was not good. Yeah. 

[00:01:54] Zoe: Oh God. Yeah. 

[00:01:55] Heather: That was not good. Not good. Um. We like to start out this podcast by checking [00:02:00] in on each other's mental health. Yeah. And just letting, and giving a little like rating between one and 10. Someone asked us what that really meant.

[00:02:06] We're like, I don't know. It's just vibes. Yeah. Vibes, bro. It's a skim. Yeah. I would say 

[00:02:10] Zoe: like, yeah, five is like mid, mid, obviously like everything can roll off of me, whatever. But I'm not great. Yeah. 10 would be like, I feel the best I can ever be, but I think the goal is to not be at a 10. I don't think we've ever said we a 

[00:02:23] Heather: 10.

[00:02:24] I think if I'm at a 10, it's mania. Yeah. Like it's not real. Yeah. You know? Yeah. For, for sure. Because even like being thrilled and being excited isn't like a 10 mental health, you know? And I 

[00:02:33] Zoe: would be scared to even say I was a 10. Well, '

[00:02:36] Heather: cause then where do you 

[00:02:36] Zoe: go? 

[00:02:36] Heather: Yeah. Where do we go from 

[00:02:37] Zoe: there? All the way back.

[00:02:38] Exactly. 

[00:02:40] Heather: Probably delusional. Yeah. Well, I will start. Okay. How's your mental, you know what? My mental's pretty good. I feel like I'm coming back. Mm-hmm. I mean, I've the un drunk. He know. But I've been in a depression for a few weeks. Mm-hmm. And I am coming out of it now, and I just feel. With the new year, I really felt this like sense [00:03:00] of new beginnings.

[00:03:01] Yeah. New beginnings and like I'm in control of that. Nice. Does that make sense? Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Christy, how's your mental health? Wait, what did you give yourself? Oh, good question. I think I've been like a six. Okay. Okay. That, that's good. I haven't been at a six in a while, and I feel good about that.

[00:03:17] That's really good. How 

[00:03:18] Christie: that, 

[00:03:19] Heather: yeah. 

[00:03:19] Christie: How's your mental health? I'm probably about a six too. Okay. There's nothing wrong. I've just been sick for Yeah. Seven weeks. Yeah. Um, and that's really hard. Mm-hmm. 'cause I'm a very active person mm-hmm. And I can't be right now. Yeah. So that is, it's hard on the mental Yeah.

[00:03:36] Zoe: And you usually are like, so go, go, go. Yeah. And like seeing so many people. And now you have to rest. And it's funny, you said your New Year's resolution was to rest more. Yeah. And it's kind of forcing you to rest. I have to, to Interesting. So the universe 

[00:03:47] Christie: heard what I asked for mm-hmm. And was like, this is the only way you're gonna do it.

[00:03:51] Yeah. 

[00:03:52] Heather: Literally. Do you find in sobriety, we, we talk about this a lot, but like sometimes we see such clear signs for sobriety. I can't think of [00:04:00] anything now, but it's just like. That. 

[00:04:02] Christie: Yeah, 

[00:04:03] Heather: like it's you, you ask the university like, I do need to slow down. Yeah. And it knows that 'cause you've been like in tune with it and then it's kind of like, oh yeah, now I have to do it.

[00:04:12] Yeah. 

[00:04:13] Christie: I 

[00:04:13] Heather: feel like we see so many signs like that in sobriety. That's just validation for what we're doing 

[00:04:17] Christie: Exactly all the time. It's really good. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:04:19] Heather: I mean it sucks, but it's, it's obviously like your body needs care. Care, my body 

[00:04:24] Christie: needs it. And the universe is like, yes, you do actually need to do this.

[00:04:28] And it's probably a long time. It's probably too 

[00:04:30] Zoe: you're, you can actually see the universe talking to you now that you're sober. You couldn't see that when you're fucked up all the time. Right. You feel 

[00:04:38] Heather: like constantly fighting against any kind of sign or message or body feeling For sure. Just to like be fucked up, you know?

[00:04:46] Now it's like, oh my god, are there like 

[00:04:47] Christie: signs? Oh my God, someone looking out for me. Oh my God. Listen to myself every day, man. Every day. Seriously. Yeah. That's great. 

[00:04:56] Zoe: How's your mental. I feel like [00:05:00] I am good. Nothing's bad is happening at all. Like I went to the first meeting back of the new year on Wednesday and it was just so nice.

[00:05:10] I hadn't gone in like maybe even like four weeks in a while. Yeah. Yeah. Like before the holidays. Do you feel it? Like, do you feel when you haven't gone? I feel like I didn't feel it, but then when I went on Wednesday I was like, oh, thank God. Oh my God, my people are here. Oh, right. Oh yeah. I kind of was feeling bad, I guess, you know.

[00:05:28] Heather: Well, and you have, you know, your boyfriend is moving in forever. Yeah. Well this is my last week. 

[00:05:34] Zoe: Being alone before he moves in. Mm-hmm. So I'm kind of trying to soak that up. Yeah. And like just spend like time with myself and just be like, just really enjoy this before he moves in. So, yeah. I feel good. I feel I'm gonna do a seven today.

[00:05:49] Oh, I love a seven. Yeah. You're 

[00:05:49] Heather: never gonna be alone again. 

[00:05:51] Zoe: And then I'm never gonna be alone again. 

[00:05:52] Heather: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:53] Zoe: Except for when he goes to play basketball with cards. Exactly. Exactly right. That do Mondays, he does that. Mondays. Fuck. [00:06:00] Yeah. Perfect. I'm off Mondays. He can do his own thing. Amazing. 

[00:06:04] Heather: Okay. So Christie, yes.

[00:06:07] I guess we'll start out with asking what is your relationship to 

[00:06:11] Christie: substances today? I mean, yeah. It's been over a decade that I've been sober, so my relationship is like a fond past. A friend mm-hmm. That it's like, I don't, I don't hate them. Okay. Um, I just, they just don't have a part of my life. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[00:06:31] They help shape me as I am. Yeah. But I don't, yeah. I don't hate them. Did you ever hate them? I mean, when I was in the worst of it. Absolutely. Okay. You know what I mean? Like, I'm pretty, uh, what they call low bottom. Mm-hmm. Um, so when I was in it, what's a low bottom? So a low bottom is someone that like, you know, I was homeless.

[00:06:53] Okay. Um, I was, yeah, just living a very, uh, rough life [00:07:00] and, uh. Like every day. So I also, opiates are my thing. Right. So it's like you're chained to it. Mm-hmm. So I can remember just looking at people, like I'd be on the bus mm-hmm. And I'd be mad at people on the streets. Mm-hmm. And I'd be mad at the substance because they're all free.

[00:07:16] And like, I couldn't, I felt chained to this like four block radius 'cause Wow. I couldn't be without my substances. 

[00:07:22] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:07:23] Zoe: It's so easy to just be like, yeah, I hate drugs. Like, I, I hate it, but mm-hmm. You being like, it was part of my life and I don't like, do you regret anything? Like No. It's cheap who you are.

[00:07:34] Yeah. The easier thing is to say like, I hate it, but. The stronger, more powerful thing to say is like, it shaped who I am today. Mm-hmm. I wouldn't be who I am without it. 

[00:07:45] Heather: Exactly. 

[00:07:46] Zoe: Yeah. You know, I feel like we've never actually like talked about that. Like, do I hate 

[00:07:49] Heather: alcohol? That's an interesting, do you hear it?

[00:07:51] I feel like 

[00:07:51] Zoe: sometimes when I walk past the LCBO or like the wine rack at work, like, Ugh, fuck you. Yeah. Like I peer and I'm like, fuck you. Like [00:08:00] I wish I know, but, well, sometimes I don't know if it's really hate. Mm-hmm. I think it's just like maybe envy for other people or like, or. I hate that you've done this to me, but 

[00:08:11] Heather: Yeah.

[00:08:11] It's like you just hate this situation. Yeah. And it's like so full of emotion that it's like, I don't know where to put this hate. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I don't wanna put it on myself. 'cause I swear to God, nothing else can be my fault. Yeah. Like I can't end up one more thing being my fault. Literally, sometimes when I walk past the LCB, I look at the alcohol, like they're like opiates or like things that like I've been caught for.

[00:08:29] And I'm like, yeah, if that was just heroin mm-hmm. It would be crazy. But it, wine and heroin are not that different, you know? Mm-hmm. It's the same, 

[00:08:37] Christie: it's the same effect, really. Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[00:08:39] Heather: It's so, but if we saw like just a bunch of needles lined up in there, we'd be like, that's not Yeah.

[00:08:43] Shocking. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But I think 

[00:08:45] Zoe: maybe that's like what I feel because mm-hmm. Yeah. Alcohol. Was such a big thing. Yeah. And people treat it as like, it's, oh, just a wine a night. You know? 

[00:08:55] Heather: Yeah. It, it is. I do feel like I have a secret being sober and being [00:09:00] like, this thing that you're consuming all the time, like it can really fuck you up.

[00:09:03] Yeah. Like it did for me. Like, I know too much, you know? For sure. Yeah. That's an interesting one. Um, when did you get started with substances? How, what was your introduction to that? 

[00:09:15] Christie: Um, I was really young. Mm-hmm. Like, it started like alcohol, uh, pot. And then I thought it was really cool. Mm-hmm. Because I could do way more than everybody else.

[00:09:27] Where were you at this point? Were you in Vancouver? No, London. London. So London, and then I moved to Gu. Guelph. Okay. And then, you know, part of moving, I moved a bit when I was younger. Mm-hmm. Is you have to, I wanted to be a chameleon. Mm-hmm. So it was like, okay, I found these, this group Cool. And they were doing drugs high.

[00:09:45] So it was like high school? Yes. Grade 11. Okay. You moved in grade 11? Yeah, I to 12. So it was like, I wanted to be a part of that group, so that meant I had to like, adapt, right? Mm-hmm. And drugs came normal to me. It was very natural for me to be high [00:10:00] again. I could do more. So people were like, you're really cool.

[00:10:02] Right? Mm-hmm. What was it about that group that was attractive to you? I just, from a, like a young age, I. I remember reading, this is gonna date me Sweet Valley High. Mm-hmm. And one of the girls had, they did coke. Right. And I was like, that's so glamorous. Okay. Right. Yeah. It was like, that's so glamorous. And there's something about that lifestyle where it was like attractive.

[00:10:23] That's like me watching 

[00:10:24] Zoe: skins. Yeah. And being like, oh, I love this. Yeah. Like these people are so fucked up and it's so cool. Yeah. I don't know why I thought it was cool, but I just did. 

[00:10:33] Heather: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's something that they have access to that like we don't yet. Mm-hmm. Or it's like you're doing this like secret thing, this bad thing.

[00:10:40] I need that but bad. I need that bad equal 

[00:10:42] Zoe: cool for us. Yeah. For you two. Yeah. Yeah. Not me. No. 

[00:10:46] Heather: I'm terrified. I like, I'm not bad at all. I hate authority. I hate getting in trouble. Mm-hmm. Like people take the TTC and don't pay. I'm like, I can't be around this. Oh my, my gosh. It's very dangerous. Like, I'm gonna get caught.

[00:10:58] I can't stand up for you. I'm not your six. I [00:11:00] can't like, so funny. God. Okay, so you get in with this group of people. Yeah. And you start with alcohol and pot. Yeah. Which is seemingly. Chill normal. Everyone does that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But you notice right off the bat that you can do more than everybody. 

[00:11:15] Christie: And I got around hard substances early too.

[00:11:18] Okay. Like lots of violence throughout my career of using. Mm-hmm. Um, lots of like, you know, I was around guns at a young age. People doing in, well, London, London people doing violent crimes. And it, that just, it was normalized to me very early. Right. So that whole like, you know, the hard drugs, the hard crime.

[00:11:38] Mm-hmm. It was just normal. Right. So I didn't really think about it in any way. You didn't think about like consequences or like, I didn't have any, yeah. I'm, you know, I'm cute, right? Mm-hmm. Um, I'm softspoken, I'm nice. Mm-hmm. So people wanted me around and this was a way to like, you know, I also moved out very young.

[00:11:58] Mm. I was like 16 when I moved [00:12:00] out, just shortly after we moved to Guelph. Okay. And, uh, you know, that like being cute and nice was what allowed me to like, stay at people's houses or get free drugs too. Right. Yeah. At 16, so. Wow. Yeah. Why did you move out? Uh, my parents, they did, like, they talked to me a couple times about my drug use mm-hmm.

[00:12:18] Because they knew it wasn't normal. Yeah. Um, even at a young age. Um. And I just, I don't like authority. Yeah. Like, I don't, I don't like you telling me what to do. Yeah. 

[00:12:29] Zoe: Um, 

[00:12:30] Christie: I don't like if people are like, uh, this is a rule. I'm like, but why? Like, it doesn't make any sense. Right. Like, I don't, especially when you're that young.

[00:12:37] Yeah. You know, it was just like, just don't do it. It's like, I don't understand though. Yeah. And they try to say like, you know, you have to be home by 9:00 PM and I was like, I'm 16. Yeah. I'm an adult. Yeah. Right. You can't tell me what to do. Interesting. You have like a very. 

[00:12:51] Heather: Like a sense of agency already.

[00:12:53] Yeah. Like questioning authority. It's like usually people grow up and realize that their dads aren't superheroes. They're just like an asshole [00:13:00] and they're underwear and a cape and like, yeah. But yeah, like knowing that at a young age is very interesting. My 

[00:13:05] Christie: parents raised me that way. Okay. Um, to be like, that's the thing too, right?

[00:13:11] Like, uh, my dad raised me to question and to like argue and to like, and then it just came around. Yeah. It came back around on them, but I, I don't get it. Right. Yeah. And so, yeah, I always, I always questioned and, uh, I always, I also had to be independent, so. Yeah. Right. Were you an only child? Two brothers.

[00:13:32] Two brothers younger. Younger. 

[00:13:33] Heather: Younger. Yeah. Are you friends with 

[00:13:35] Christie: them? 

[00:13:35] Heather: Oh, 

[00:13:35] Christie: yeah. 

[00:13:35] Heather: Oh, good. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Okay. So what did your addiction look like in the beginning? It starting out fairly kosher, like fairly innocent. When did you feel like it started to take control over you? 

[00:13:50] Christie: I mean, I wasn't, uh, cognizant of that.

[00:13:53] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. I used for quite a while, but it was partying, right? Mm-hmm. That's how I kind of [00:14:00] framed it. And there were times over the years, like a couple times where things would get really bad and, but it was always like the boyfriends fall, right? Mm-hmm. So it was like I'd move across the country, I moved to Germany.

[00:14:13] Like I just would always keep moving, right? Mm-hmm. Um, remember one time, actually before I moved to Vancouver, my parents, they knew, uh, how messed up I was. I was doing lots of like coke and, uh, Molly Ketamine around this time, and they, um, they offered to send me to rehab. Mm-hmm. Right? And this is probably like almost 10 years before I actually got sober.

[00:14:38] Mm. And I didn't wanna go. Mm-hmm. I was like, I don't need that. I had ideas about it, what it looked like. Mm-hmm. I was like, I don't need to go. And so my thought was like, I just have to hide my using better. Mm. Right. And then I realized was like, oh, that's not a normal thought. Right. Yeah. I was like, this isn't something that somebody is probably thinking that doesn't have a problem.[00:15:00] 

[00:15:00] But then after a couple days I was like, no, I'm, I'm fine. It's okay. Right. 

[00:15:03] Zoe: So that was like maybe the point where you're like, oh, like this is not a normal thing. Yeah. I'm not 

[00:15:08] Christie: doing, but I didn't like, wanna do anything about it. There wasn't weight to it. Right. Right. It was just like, it was a thought, but I didn't, the next thought isn't I have to stop.

[00:15:17] Yeah. Yeah. I was like, okay. And I was like, I just need to get outta Guelph. Right. Mm-hmm. And then I moved to Vancouver and like, it just, uh, yeah, it seemed manageable, but it wasn't mm-hmm. Until opiates really like that, brought me to my knees pretty quickly. Okay. Like, I'd, I'd use them. Over the years, but when I got into like Oxy and Fentanyl and heroin, that was when it really like Yeah.

[00:15:40] It was very unmanageable. Okay. 

[00:15:42] Heather: I wonder what it's like to be getting sober from drugs that aren't accessible to everybody. Like no one knows that, where you, where to get them. You're like, it's like, I can tell Zoe I'm not drinking tonight. Mm-hmm. But if [00:16:00] we go to dinner, I don't have to tell you I'm not shooting up tonight.

[00:16:03] 'cause 

[00:16:04] Christie: it's assumed. Yeah. Yeah. I, 

[00:16:07] Heather: I, I, do you kind of get what I'm trying to say. Like, I, I, it's like you're, yeah, you're getting sober, but people around you aren't getting sober in the same way as you. Yeah. Like there's so many alcoholics recovering, but. I, I don't know. 

[00:16:19] Zoe: Did you? Well, the people you were probably surrounding yourself with were probably all like in the same boat as you, right?

[00:16:25] A lot of them. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:16:26] Christie: And I can f that's the thing. I can find drugs anywhere. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You can put me in any city. I used to think that was my superpower was like going to these foreign places and being like. This is where we got the drugs. Yeah. Don't worry guys. I got it. I got it. Everyone's like, you're a superhero, Christie.

[00:16:42] Like, yeah, I can find like, here. So useful. It was, or I'd fly with it, right? Like I just, Christie, I reckless. Right. No fear. No fear. Okay. This 

[00:16:54] Heather: is like a theme. I have a lot of fear, but a lot of people come in this room and have no fear about anything. That's so [00:17:00] interesting. Do you feel like that ramped up?

[00:17:01] Like were you kind of nervous at first and then, or are you, have you always just been like, oh, I don't care to the wind? 

[00:17:07] Christie: Um, it's a combination of both, right? Mm-hmm. Like the first time you do it is hard. Mm-hmm. And that's kind of the thing for my addiction, right? Like the first time you. You're in a crack house.

[00:17:18] It's hard. But then it's like, well, it's just normal now, right? Mm-hmm. First time you fly with drugs, it's hard, but then it's just normal. It's just the thing you do. Right. And again, I'm cute. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, so they're never thinking like, this woman has got cocaine and heroin on her. You know, this not what they're thinking.

[00:17:35] I look a certain way. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. Do you think people like took advantage of that? Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm. For sure. Even like right up to when I came into recovery this time, right? Mm-hmm. Because I tried before, people still were like, you don't look like you're an addict. Mm-hmm. I was like, I do a lot of drugs every single day.

[00:17:57] Mm-hmm. You know, but I didn't look the part. [00:18:00] Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:00] Heather: So, yeah. I find that that is like not helpful when people say that like, oh, you don't look like an alcoholic. You don't live in junk. You don't look like you had an have an eating disorder. Mm-hmm. You're like, I don't know how to take that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:12] Because if you tell me I don't look like I have an eating disorder, that means I'm not. Thin enough. Yeah. So I'm gonna keep doing it with alcohol. It's like, oh, I don't look like I have a problem. Okay. Okay. Let's keep going then. I got time then. Yeah. You know, like I'm not my, I have all of my teeth. Like we can, you know, that's not a helpful thing to say for sure.

[00:18:29] Mm-hmm. People 

[00:18:30] Christie: don't, it's, that's our first kind of, uh, thing. We take it to be the truth. I see it. Therefore it's true. Mm-hmm. But there's so much we have that you can't see, right? Mm-hmm. And that's why I'll never say like, someone's doing well or someone's not doing well in recovery. 'cause I don't know.

[00:18:45] Right? Yeah. Unless I'm like with you every single day, all day, like, I have no idea. Yeah. Just see what you want me to see essentially. It's dangerous to say like, you're doing well, you know? Yeah. So, yeah. It is 

[00:18:58] Heather: true. It, I, it's [00:19:00] so funny actually that you say that because if I looked at Zoe and I said. You look like you're doing well, to me, that's a compliment.

[00:19:05] Mm-hmm. But like if I'm, and I'm depressed, so like, if I'm not doing well and you say that to me, I'm like, oh my God, you don't see me. Exactly. I'm alone. Yeah. Yeah. I look a certain like, am I supposed to look worse? Exactly. Like, why do I have these thoughts if I look so good? Like, it's very, yeah. 

[00:19:20] Christie: Yeah.

[00:19:20] Heather: Confusing. 

[00:19:21] Zoe: You know, you never assume and just like, 

[00:19:23] Heather: mm-hmm. 

[00:19:24] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:19:25] Christie: So have to disregard you like, okay. 

[00:19:27] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:19:28] Christie: Thank you. 

[00:19:29] Heather: And I guess asking too, rather than like, you look good. It's like, how are you, like how are you feeling? That's like a good little switch. Mm-hmm. So you've tried to get sober how many times?

[00:19:38] Zoe: Well, 

[00:19:39] Heather: in like real ways that felt impactful. Hmm. 

[00:19:42] Christie: I tried lots of things. Mm-hmm. Like methadone. I tried counselors, psychologists moving methadone's like Suboxone? Yes, yes. It's a replacement. Mm-hmm. Therapy similar, but it, uh, Suboxone just acts differently in your brain. So methadone, you can still get high.

[00:19:58] Okay. Got it. Will you, will you actually [00:20:00] explain what methadone is? Yeah. It's, it's an opiate in itself. Okay. Essentially it's a drink, uh, Suboxone's a pill. Mm-hmm. Um, and it, it just essentially gets you high so that you don't have to get high. Okay. And what is the point of that? It's so that you can live a normal life, right?

[00:20:18] So the idea is if you're addicted to heroin mm-hmm. You're living a life that usually isn't great, right? Mm-hmm. But if you're taking methadone, you're going to the pharmacy. Okay. Um, and you're getting a certain amount every day so that you can go live a normal life, right? Mm-hmm. Because that's the thing with opiates is you're just trying not to get sick 

[00:20:35] Zoe: often.

[00:20:35] Christie: Right. You're not getting high. It's just like that baseline fear of being dope sick is like, it's consuming. Okay? So if you have a steady supply, Suboxone, methadone, whatever it is, it allows you like the harm reduction of it, if it's used properly, it does allow you to kind of be a productive member of society.

[00:20:53] And is the goal 

[00:20:53] Zoe: to like lean off of that? Or are there like people out there that are just doing it forever? Yeah. [00:21:00] 

[00:21:00] Christie: Uh, my opinion. Yeah. This is an opinion Sure. Is that you should be weaning off of it. Yeah. It's not, it's like a medical, medical opinion. Mm-hmm. They, they've really changed that, um, in recent years.

[00:21:11] Uh, the policy on now, so when I got sober, you could go into detox and they would help you get off opiates, right? Mm-hmm. And now they don't know. They just put you on a replacement therapy Oh. Right away. Yeah. That's, that's their, like, recommendation is you need to do harm reduction. So it's really hard now to like Yeah.

[00:21:30] Get off of the replacement 

[00:21:33] Heather: that feels trauma informed to me. Mm-hmm. On the surface level to be like, we're not gonna force you to quit. Yeah. Like, we have another option. 

[00:21:41] Christie: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:42] Heather: I do wonder if that gets dicey though. 

[00:21:44] Christie: If you wanna actually stop. It's really hard to Yeah. Like coming like. Coming off of opiates is the hardest thing.

[00:21:51] Mm-hmm. Like, yeah. I can't even explain the, like, the pain you go through, right? The, like, you're hot, you're cold, you're like constipating, [00:22:00] uh, no, the opposite. Oh, everything comes out of everything. Um, your pupils are the size, you're in pain. You can't stop sweating, you can't eat, you can't talk like you, it feels like your skeleton is trying to get out of your body.

[00:22:15] Heather: Oh, yeah. So you've, you've tried many methods. Mm-hmm. What was the first method you tried 

[00:22:23] Christie: the first one? Um, probably like counselors. Okay. You know, paying, paying someone to help me be better, you know? 

[00:22:33] Heather: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:34] Christie: Yeah. 

[00:22:34] Heather: At what point in your addiction did you start? Thinking like, oh, I need to change this. Like the the first counselor you went to, because you have a interesting situation, counselor too.

[00:22:45] I was gonna say, 

[00:22:45] Christie: were you just lying to your counselors? Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. A hundred percent. Yeah. Because I didn't wanna look as bad as I actually was, right? Mm-hmm. And 

[00:22:53] Heather: yet you were going to a counselor Yeah. Because you wanted help, 

[00:22:56] Zoe: but did you wanna maybe just go to the counselor so like everyone else [00:23:00] would like back off part of it?

[00:23:01] For sure. Yeah. Like, oh, I'm going to counseling, whatever. Like I'm, no, I'm good. Exactly. Like, look at, look at what I'm 

[00:23:07] Christie: doing. Yeah. Yeah. It was a part of it, definitely. And also it was like I wanted help, but on my terms too. Mm-hmm. Sure. You know, it was like, I thought I knew better if I look at it now. Mm-hmm.

[00:23:20] I can see, like, I thought I knew better and it was like, okay, like I don't. I don't really take what you say that seriously, it's not gonna help me. Mm-hmm. Why do I need to listen to you? Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:23:30] Zoe: No, I know someone who's trying to get sober right now too. And that's exactly what they said. Like, I wanna do it on my terms.

[00:23:36] I don't wanna do it on anyone else's terms. I wanna do it my own way. 

[00:23:39] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:23:40] Zoe: And. It's addiction. It's, 

[00:23:42] Heather: yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like our, like proclivity in some way thinking that we're better than everybody else. Yeah. I still think that, but like, totally. I'm like, you don't know what is going on with me. Mm-hmm.

[00:23:52] Yeah. Like I amm number one, know exactly. Like, I don't care. There's been people on this earth for so long, no one's had an alcohol addiction. Like, like, yeah. [00:24:00] Like, it's not possible. We've had such different lives. Mm-hmm. But it's just not the case. 

[00:24:04] Christie: It's part of the separation, right? Mm-hmm. And that's what, it makes it hard.

[00:24:07] That made it so hard for me to actually recover. Mm-hmm. Like get better was, 'cause I was like, I have an iPhone. You know, maybe I'm homeless, but I have an iPhone. Right. So I'm not like you guys, you know, like I still have things and I can still look a certain way. Yeah. So like, I'm not like you guys, you know?

[00:24:24] Yeah. 

[00:24:24] Heather: Well, let's talk about. Homelessness. How did that come about for you? Uh, I just stopped paying rent. Okay. 

[00:24:32] Christie: They kicked me out. Yeah. Essentially. Right? It was like, uh, future Christie, we'll figure this out. Right. Right. Is like, oh my God, I have this much money for, you know, for rent and for groceries and whatever.

[00:24:45] It was like, but I don't have enough for drugs. I was like, I'll just borrow from my rent money. Mm-hmm. Um, and then yeah, eventually that kind of ran out. So Oh, 

[00:24:54] Heather: and so fast too, right? Yeah. It really, 20 bucks turns into like a thousand dollars. Like nothing. Like nothing. [00:25:00] Yeah, exactly. 

[00:25:01] Zoe: Damn. And then when you were on the street, you're like, oh, I'm gonna figure it out.

[00:25:04] Like Exactly. It's fine. The magic wand happen and I'm okay. Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:09] Heather: I actually wanna talk about the moment of being kicked out of your apartment 'cause. That is to me so scary. I have dreams about evading taxes somehow. 'cause I didn't know, or like not paying something and getting like arrested. Yeah. 'cause you always think like you don't belong.

[00:25:26] Like you don't, yeah. You don't deserve any of this. Oh. And I think I'm like the dumbest person in the world. Yeah. So I'm like, something has happened here. Mm. And like everyone is gonna figure it out and I don't know what it is. You know, I'm gonna jail. Yeah. But nobody look into it though, just in case. But.

[00:25:42] Up until I, I understand the feeling of like taking money from your rent. Taking money from your rent, and then are you just hoping nothing happens? Oh, 

[00:25:49] Christie: yeah. Yeah. That's, it's delusional totally. Where I was just like, it's gonna be okay. Right. Because that's always, with my recklessness, it was always like, it's gonna be fine.

[00:25:59] Like I'm, it's [00:26:00] gonna work out, right. Mm-hmm. Until it doesn't, it's like a hard reality crash. Yeah. But by this time, you know, I'd been in and outta like detoxes too. Mm-hmm. And like, you know, attempting to be sober, I'd been in the rooms. Mm-hmm. Okay. And this is in Vancouver, right? Yeah, it was in Vancouver.

[00:26:15] So, yeah. And then it was just like, okay, you have to be out of this place by this state and like just leave, you know? Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Where did you go? Uh, crack houses. Yeah. Like, yeah, you just 

[00:26:29] Heather: find the local. 

[00:26:30] Christie: Yeah, I had a friend mm-hmm. Uh, from Ontario that was living in a crack house and he is like, yeah, I guess you can crash here for a bit And mm-hmm.

[00:26:39] Heather: Alright. Yeah. 

[00:26:40] Christie: But you had your iPhone, so you're fine. I had my iPhone. I was not like everybody else. Yeah. How were you 

[00:26:44] Heather: paying for your phone? 

[00:26:46] Christie: Um, I didn't have a phone plan. Okay. Like, but you had a phone. It's just all in collections? Yeah. Yeah. Like no phone plan. It was a wifi. Wifi. Like it did turn on. It just, I had it.

[00:26:56] No, no. I, it was a wifi phone. Right, right. So it was like, I had to [00:27:00] be on wifi and I had like a wifi number, so as long as I was on wifi was fun. Scrap saw my deal, my dealer, and just be like, you have to meet me here. And it would be out of like the wifi area. Mm-hmm. So I'm just like praying Yeah. That he shows up, you know 

[00:27:15] Heather: what I mean?

[00:27:15] Yeah. So intense. So stressful. Oh yeah. I feel like I wanna, like, I'm trying not to go like sequentially, but I do feel, how did you get out of that situation of being on the street? 

[00:27:27] Christie: So that's how I got sober was I. I, you know, I realized, so there's, in the big book, there's this line called Pitiful and Incomprehensible Demoralization.

[00:27:37] And I was walking down the street and it was raining. And it was late October. No, it was early October. 'cause it was right before Thanksgiving. And I was like, you know, going back to this crack house. And I was like, oh, that's what this word means. It's like, I can feel pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization right now.

[00:27:55] Wow. Yeah. And it was like, uh, the reality of [00:28:00] things aren't gonna get better because I was always like, it's future. Christie's will figure it out. Right. Like magic wand. Yeah. This is my life right now. Mm-hmm. But it'll get better somehow. Right. 'cause it always, it didn't. Right. I, I was on this downward trajectory.

[00:28:14] Mm-hmm. But because it was in these like incremental kind of, I didn't see it. Mm-hmm. Right. Until it was like, oh no, this is my life and I need help. So this is how the first time I kind of. I never asked for help, so I called my dad. Hmm. Um, 'cause nobody else in my family wanted anything to do with me. Dad.

[00:28:33] When was the last time you talked to your dad before that? It'd been a while. Yeah. I don't know how long, but yeah, again, like I had a wifi phone, they couldn't get a hold of me. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, 'cause the start of the opiate kind of epidemic, uh, people were starting to, no one knew what fentanyl was at that time.

[00:28:51] Right? Yeah. Um, but they're starting to, and like, people were starting to die, so it was scary. So they asked for help. 

[00:28:58] Zoe: Did that scare you when people started to [00:29:00] die? Like you said, like you weren't really scared of anything. Like, that's, was that scary to you, that point? It doesn't feel like it's gonna happen to you.

[00:29:07] Yeah. 

[00:29:07] Heather: Right. Even, even when it's like your friends. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. 

[00:29:11] Christie: Interesting. It's not because it's not me. Right. Even though I did, like, I have overdosed a couple times, but I never thought it was like, okay, well this is just, you know, it's fine. It's not like them dying. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. 

[00:29:25] Heather: That is. Okay. So it's, it's something that you had read and it was just internal and one day it just came up in your head.

[00:29:33] Mm-hmm. And that's, that was your like revelation, essentially. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Isn't that interesting that people could die in front of you? Mm-hmm. And you're like. It's not my skin. Yeah. It's not me. Like I'm watching that happen, but like, it has to come from right inside somehow. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That is like so blatantly obvious.

[00:29:52] Mm-hmm. You know, like that's what addiction is. Yeah. It's like nothing. There's nothing, anything you think could scare me into [00:30:00] sobriety? No. Not gonna work. No. It, it needs to come from yourself. 

[00:30:03] Christie: Yeah. Wow. Okay. So that was, you called your dad? Called my dad, and then I went to detox. Mm-hmm. And then I got outta detox.

[00:30:10] I was like, one last time, Hey, okay, it's fine. And then, uh, yeah, one last time turned into a couple more weeks. Mm-hmm. And then like, God bless that man. He came out and got me. Mm. And then we, uh, came back to Ontario. And Yeah, I did a cold Turkey detox. Holy shit. Yeah, it was brutal. 'cause I was coming off methadone, uh, fentanyl and heroin, which like zero to 10 recommend.

[00:30:36] Yeah. 

[00:30:37] Heather: Why were you coming off of methadone? 

[00:30:39] Christie: Uh, 'cause I didn't have a script here. Okay. And I, like, I didn't wanna be on it. Okay. I didn't, it was like, what do people call it? The liquid handcuffs. Mm-hmm. Because you, you can't go anywhere, you know what I mean? You so. So where were you like detoxing? In Ontario.

[00:30:53] In Guelph. In Guelph? Yeah. My parents' house. Yeah. Wow. They had no idea. They did. How could they not know [00:31:00] Kristy? I lie. So, because I'm a liar, you know, I chose my, and I'm so adorable and nobody fucking knows. So it was like, I, I said I was already sober. Right. I went to detox and got it. Uh, they thought I was sober, but I flew heroin with me back on the plane.

[00:31:19] Um, Jesus Christ. I know. Like a large quantity of it. It was this free nine 11. No, no. 

[00:31:25] Heather: This post nine 11. No, it's, 

[00:31:26] Christie: but I'm, I like to bring that up as a marker. I'm a blonde woman, so it's like there's no way that she has heroin on her. Yeah. With her dad so crazy. With her 

[00:31:36] Heather: dad. Yeah. She's with her dad. There's no way.

[00:31:39] There's 

[00:31:39] Christie: no way. 

[00:31:41] Heather: Oh God. If my dad knew that I flew with heroin, he'd be so upset. Yeah. Oh. 

[00:31:48] Christie: It's, yeah, it's just part of my story, honestly. Really. You know, and it's funny 'cause I was getting high on the plane and he was like, you have to go to the bathroom a lot. I was like, small bladder. I know, I know.

[00:31:59] Zoe: [00:32:00] Literally people are so like, I can't believe some people didn't even know. Will ignorance come on dad. I know. Exactly. Come it's like, 

[00:32:08] Christie: yeah. Like, you know, me falling asleep then. Yeah. She's just sleepy. I think sometimes with dads, 

[00:32:14] Heather: maybe moms too, but I think dads, they like really wanna see the best in their girls.

[00:32:19] Yeah. If it's a girl, then Yeah. And they like really will take like, like my dad's like never been worried that I'm gonna relapse. Mm. And even at the beginning he was like, oh, well you went to rehab, you're good. Yeah. I'm like, that's not how that works. I'm like, I mm-hmm. Like statistically like could relapse, you know?

[00:32:36] Mm-hmm. So like this isn't a one and done thing necessarily. And he was like, oh, I didn't know. I'm like, yeah, you're just so nice. And he is like, think that I'm the best, but yeah. Okay. Where are 

[00:32:46] Zoe: we? We're in Guelph. We're detoxing. We're detoxing. 

[00:32:50] Christie: So they don't hear you just like shitting your pants again?

[00:32:52] Screaming. Yeah. And I'd scream and I'd be like, what's wrong? I'm like, post-acute withdrawal. Oh 

[00:32:58] Heather: shit. 

[00:32:58] Christie: Okay. 

[00:32:59] Heather: How long did that 

[00:32:59] Christie: [00:33:00] last? Oh, so I waited two weeks and I got into treatment. Mm-hmm. And then even in treatment, it was probably a month before I could, yeah. It was two weeks of hell. Um, two whole weeks.

[00:33:11] Two whole weeks. Damn. One week of like, and you can't sleep, that's the thing, either. Yeah. Right. Like you can't, so one week of that, the intense acute withdrawal, um, and then another week of like. Intense withdrawal, but it wasn't as acute. And then two weeks where I was like, I couldn't walk up the stairs.

[00:33:29] Mm-hmm. Shit. And like, I'm typically a strong person. I have pneumonia right now, so I'm not, but I'm typically a strong person. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I like, yeah. I couldn't carry my luggage up the stairs to go to rehab. Mm-hmm. Because I was so freaking weak. So I had to sit on a special chair 'cause they, my bones were so sore.

[00:33:47] Yeah. 

[00:33:48] Heather: Oh my God. That is crazy. Yeah. So you're detoxing at home, then you go to treatment. Do they give you anything for that? Yeah. No. Oh, they didn't, they, could they ask 

[00:33:56] Christie: you and you said No, not in treatment. Okay. That you'd have to [00:34:00] usually go in with something from your doctor and I was just like, yeah.

[00:34:02] Cold. But not like an IV 

[00:34:03] Heather: drip or anything. No. Imagine love an iv. That would be amazing. Just gimme some medicine. Help you. Yeah. Yeah. I know that's exactly right. Also too, we were talking about Justin Bieber on Instagram talking about how he's like not drinking. Yeah. But he like has an IV drip in and we're like, I get that.

[00:34:20] That's vitamins. But like you look crazy right now. Yeah, yeah. You know, doing everything you possibly can to like not be on something. Well, and we were saying like he was probably 

[00:34:29] Zoe: detoxing then if he wasn't drinking for the week. And of course like he has the resources to have an IV drip in him at all times.

[00:34:36] We are so lucky. But yeah. So when you were detoxing at your parents' house in Guelph, were you like scared because like of how everything that was happening to you? Like were you nervous of like. Death. Like what could happen? Like you were all by yourself. No help from anybody. No one knew. No. When I throw up now I call my dad.

[00:34:58] Yeah. We both hit our heads [00:35:00] at the same time at our apartment and I thought I was gonna die. We were very scared. 

[00:35:05] Heather: You would've not hung out with us. You know, Heather can't come. She bumped her head. Alright, well we're gonna go do drugs. Okay. But what was your question? While you're detoxing, are you afraid?

[00:35:18] Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:35:18] Zoe: Were you like afraid at your parents' house? I was 

[00:35:20] Christie: not of my health. Yeah. I was scared of life. Yeah. Right. Because it was like. I was leaving a relationship, um, I was leaving my life in Vancouver. Mm-hmm. Was leaving, you know, I didn't know what it was like to live. Yeah. Right. Like, all I knew was to be hot.

[00:35:36] Yeah. Um, all my time, resources, energy, that was all I was trying to do, essentially. Right. So I was like, I don't, I had no idea what it would look like. Yeah. It was scary. Yeah. It was a, 

[00:35:46] Zoe: it was a decade. Right. So brave of you to do that by yourself too. Also crazy. Yeah. Crazy. 

[00:35:52] Heather: For sure. 

[00:35:53] Zoe: Yeah. Um, what, sorry. I'm so sorry.

[00:35:55] I got excited. You go ahead. Um, 'cause a lot of people do [00:36:00] use methadone or Suboxone, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to do it without that is 

[00:36:07] Christie: a lot. Yeah. And it was only because like, I was somewhere where. I couldn't access it. Right. Yeah. Like that's a, because otherwise it's too easy to just call your dealer.

[00:36:16] Yeah. And I had done that so many times, right? Where I'd get like two or three days. Mm-hmm. I was like, I cannot take this anymore. Yeah. You know? Right. And even detox, I'd be in there and then I'd like, as soon as I got out, I was like, just call my dealer. Right, right. Yeah. Well, how long is detox usually? Um, I've only been for opiates and they, it was usually like 10 days to two weeks cutting in.

[00:36:35] Oh, okay. Okay. So, yeah. 

[00:36:37] Heather: I have a friend from rehab who has been to, he's been to rehab nine times and he's escaped from every detox he's ever gone to, like jumped out windows. Oh, yeah. Oh. Like he can't handle detox. He like, he can't do it. Yeah. So usually they'll just ship 'em right to rehab. They're like, lock him in, lock and handle it.

[00:36:51] Like, oh my god. But that's like so real. I was telling him that too. I'm like, yeah, if I saw a bar across the street and our supervisor was in the shower mm-hmm. On [00:37:00] FaceTime. 

[00:37:00] Zoe: Yeah. I'm 

[00:37:00] Heather: going to the bar. Yeah. Like, I get it. You need to be alone. You need to be in the woods. Yeah. Yeah. Locked in. Exactly. For sure.

[00:37:08] Christie: Yeah. It's hard. 

[00:37:09] Heather: Was there any ever a point in those two weeks at your parents where you were like, I just need help. Like, I wanna call the hospital or something with the pain? Yeah. 

[00:37:19] Christie: Oh, I thought like. Definitely like I'd called my ex-boyfriend and was like, he's like, you need to go on methadone. Like you need to go on something.

[00:37:29] Right? Like you're not, I had like a dreadlock, one big dreadlock from like sweating and like grinding my head and my pillow trying to sleep and I was like, I'm so gross. But yeah, I had to tough it out. Right? 'cause, yeah. 

[00:37:45] Zoe: Do you recommend like people who are going off opiates like to do that? Like I know it's like, what do you think about that now?

[00:37:54] Yeah. Looking back when, what the best way to get off? 

[00:37:58] Christie: That it's, I, that's just my [00:38:00] experience. Yeah. You know, like, I'm never gonna throw shade on. It's, it's hard. It is a really hard thing to do. I know people like my first sponsor in Vancouver mm-hmm. She'd successfully come off a methadone. Yeah. It is possible, right?

[00:38:12] Mm-hmm. Um, I know, yeah. Lots of people who have done the same, some people have stayed on it. Mm-hmm. Uh, whatever is best for you. Yeah. That was what was best for me. 'cause again, like I just, I didn't feel free. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like I didn't, and now they have other options too. They have sub blockade. Okay.

[00:38:29] Where it's like an injection that goes under your skin and you get it once a month and then you can it come off of it a lot easier. Is 

[00:38:35] Heather: that the one where you can't get high? 

[00:38:37] Christie: Uh, Suboxone's like that 

[00:38:38] Heather: too. 

[00:38:38] Christie: Yeah. Suboxone, you can't get high. Yeah. So 

[00:38:40] Heather: you could shoot heroin and you won't feel it. Yeah. Okay.

[00:38:43] Interesting. Yeah. Essentially that's like, yeah. So what is the, like, if you were gonna use it in the best way, like, this is why we created, um, methadone. This is how people should use it. This is like doctor recommended for a healthy life. How are you supposed to use methadone? [00:39:00] 

[00:39:00] Christie: I, my thoughts are you should go on it and then get off of it, you know?

[00:39:04] Yeah. Okay. That's like my opinion. Go on it. To get off other substances and then yourself off that. Yeah. Because if you're just adding, that was my thing. I was just adding it to my repertoire. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Is like just something else. So, 'cause again, the fear of being dope sick is very great. Mm-hmm. And so it was something that helped me prolong being dope sick.

[00:39:22] Yeah. Or like avoid it if I couldn't always afford to get drugs, you know? Interesting. 

[00:39:25] Heather: How quick does the dope sickness come on? Because alcohol is our thing and I, I would wake up in the middle of the night mm-hmm. And withdrawal. But I would just drink my under the pillow wine. Mm-hmm. And go to sleep.

[00:39:36] Mm-hmm. How 

[00:39:37] Christie: quickly is that for, for you? It depends, uh, like at the end it was pretty quick. I, middle of the night I hid drugs in the bathroom under the sink, under a rug. Mm. Because I was pretending I was sober at that time. Mm-hmm. So it was like for your 

[00:39:50] Zoe: boyfriend? Yeah, yeah, 

[00:39:52] Christie: yeah. Even though he was using Okay.

[00:39:54] I had this moral high ground. Right. 'cause I wasn't, yeah. But like, I clearly was. Were you using more than him, [00:40:00] like when you were or No. Like at, when we used together, we, we were using the same, yeah. But yeah. Yeah. He, I also, I didn't smoke crack. I didn't, uh, yeah. I, I was just a junkie, so I didn't No crack from you guys.

[00:40:15] I have my iPhone. I have my iPhone. I, I'm so much different than you guys. Right. I don't 

[00:40:21] Heather: smoke crack, but I do fly with heroin. Yeah. And 

[00:40:23] Christie: fentanyl. No problem. And like cocaine. Yeah, but not crack. 

[00:40:27] Heather: I'm better 

[00:40:28] Christie: than that. No, 

[00:40:30] Heather: we're so crazy. Listen, when I went to rehab, I was so nervous. I like Googled luxury rehabs, Ontario, because I was afraid.

[00:40:39] Yeah. I was an alcoholic. I didn't know. Like, all we know of junkies is what we hear, and I say junkie respectfully. I call myself a junky, but like going to rehab, I'm like, oh no. What the fuck is this gonna be? It's gonna be a bunch of detoxing lunatics who think they're better than everybody. Exactly. The call was coming from inside the home.

[00:40:54] It was me. Yeah. But going to rehab, being like, oh, we all have the same drugs and alcohol are the same. Mm-hmm. Like, [00:41:00] I didn't smoke crack. It's like, well, you have. You 

[00:41:01] Christie: might as well have vaped, you know? Yeah. It's the same. Yeah. It's just, I think everyone has substances that they're most mm-hmm. Attracted to, right?

[00:41:09] Yeah. Yeah. I, I consider myself an alcoholic as well. I drink a alcoholically. Mm-hmm. But like opiates are my thing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like if I had a table full of every possible drug and I've done most of them mm-hmm. I would the opiates. Yeah. Every time, you know? Yeah. Your friends. 

[00:41:24] Heather: Mm-hmm. They're just, yeah.

[00:41:25] Yeah. So you've detoxed at your parents, you go into treatment, is that sober now? Yeah. Is that when you get fully sober? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. So was that a rehab or, I went to Renaissance, yeah. Okay. Yeah. For 30 days, 28 days. 28 days. Yeah. You said I don't need the 30. I'm better than that. I have to get on 

[00:41:45] Christie: a flight, 

[00:41:47] Heather: but Okay.

[00:41:48] And how was that experience for you? Rehab? 

[00:41:50] Christie: So rehab women were hard, right? Like I was around men most of the time. Mm-hmm. Um, I was more comfortable with men. So I was in a house full of women, [00:42:00] um, being vulnerable really hard, right? Mm-hmm. And you have to go in, you have to be vulnerable, be around women.

[00:42:04] Mm-hmm. Um, I was lucky. I was around like a really great group of women for the most part, which made it really easy. Mm-hmm. But I had to, I remember after my first week, uh, having to like. Coach myself and be like, you need to be vulnerable, right? Mm-hmm. I can also remember there's this poster in the lobby, so we'd be waiting to go to meetings and it said surrender.

[00:42:27] Mm-hmm. And I'd be sitting there being like, fucking surrender, fucking surrender. Because you're like, you wanna use and you don't at the same time. Yeah. Right. Um, yeah. And that was basically, I don't, they said go to meetings, get a home group, get a sponsor. 

[00:42:42] Heather: Was there a point in rehab where you did get vulnerable?

[00:42:44] You did find yourself surrendering percent 

[00:42:46] Christie: after that first week? The surrender, I fought it, which is like the opposite of how you surrender. You don't fight to surrender, you just surrender. Sure. Um, but I, uh, yeah, I definitely got vulnerable even though it was really hard. Yeah. [00:43:00] Still I did it. Mm-hmm. And did it 

[00:43:01] Heather: feel good?

[00:43:03] Christie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's, it was scary. So like, my heart would race. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? If I got vulnerable and like butterflies in my stomach mm-hmm. And like, yeah, I'd feel, I'd felt exposed. But yeah. Probably the first time you've ever like done that. That's what I was asking, honestly. Yeah. You know, 'cause I'd pretend to be vulnerable, but it would be to you get something, you know, to manipulate and lie.

[00:43:27] Heather: Yeah. That is, and pretending to be vulnerable. I think I fall into that category sometimes. Mm-hmm. Because I offer so much trauma mm-hmm. To anyone who sits in front of me. Mm-hmm. But I'm like, there is stuff that if you know about, it's gonna crumble my life. Yeah. Much like my kitchen, you know? I know we talk about that too much, but I'll, I'll tell you, I was an addict.

[00:43:50] I'll tell you the shit that I did. I tell you when I got caught, I tell you all this weird shit I did having sex, but like. If you know that my drawers are messy. Yeah. That is so exposing. So it's like, [00:44:00] yeah, it's not my choice. Yeah. To be sharing that. Yeah. So I, I get that feeling sometimes. I'm like, how is it so hard to be vulnerable?

[00:44:06] Just like, tell everyone how you're feeling. But I'm like, oh, wait, no. There, there's a reason that some things are easy to say. Yeah. And 

[00:44:12] Zoe: not, 

[00:44:12] Heather: yeah. Yeah. 

[00:44:13] Zoe: I remember like when I did maybe. My first one-on-one counseling at rehab, because I think I was detoxing for like three days and then we finally like sat down together.

[00:44:23] Mm-hmm. And I just like cried to her for like probably 20 minutes. 'cause I was like, I've never done it before. I was so scared. Yeah. Like, I couldn't say anything. I could only cry. Yeah. I feel like I'm gonna cry now. But yeah, it was like a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. It feel safe, right? Yeah. 

[00:44:39] Christie: And it's so rare that we feel safe to actually say like, yeah, my drawers are messy.

[00:44:43] Yeah. You know what I mean? Oh god. Mm-hmm. I hate it 

[00:44:45] Heather: so much. 

[00:44:45] Christie: Even, even you saying that like, not mine, not my doors don't look, but it's okay. Right. Like, it's like, and that's the acceptance of me where it's like, hey, I have a pile to clothes in my closet, but the closet door is closed so you don't see them.

[00:44:59] Right? [00:45:00] Yeah, exactly. It's like, right. 

[00:45:01] Heather: Okay. I'm glad 

[00:45:01] Christie: that you said them. So I'm like, Kristen's 10 years sober and she's also messy, so it's fine. Yeah. It's I, but like, I hide my mess, so It's okay. It's manageable. Yeah. 

[00:45:11] Heather: Um. When were you first introduced to opiates? Because that was your, that's your main love.

[00:45:18] Um, I was like, 

[00:45:21] Christie: what, 2000 and. Three. Oh, two years after nine 11. Yeah. Two years. That's her ference. She really loves nine 11. Okay. Yeah. So it's helpful. I was in third grade. There you go. Yeah. I was not, 

[00:45:37] Heather: so, I wasn't born yet. It was okay. No, I was, yeah, she was. 

[00:45:40] Christie: I was five, so I was uh, Percocets. It was Percocets.

[00:45:45] Oh yeah. And somebody. I, I think it was someone I was dating, got them for their stomach. 

[00:45:51] Zoe: Mm. 

[00:45:51] Christie: And I found you could take them and it helped with the coat come down. I was like, this is great. 

[00:45:55] Zoe: Okay. 

[00:45:56] Christie: And then my doctor prescribed them to me for something [00:46:00] and I just kept going back and being like, I need more Percocets.

[00:46:02] And then I sold a prescription pad and then wrote myself prescriptions for Percocets. Oh, wow. And then I got busted Uhhuh. And again, but I'm cute. 'cause the pharmacist was like this clearly. 'cause I stole the pad. Um, and I we're resourceful of people, addicts are really resourceful, right? Mm-hmm. Right. So I stole the pad.

[00:46:20] Mm-hmm. And I, I took the script that she gave me and just traced it. Mm. But then I guess my tracing got sloppy. Oh. So the pharmacist was like, no, no. And then she called my doctor. She's like, you're lucky I'm not calling the police. So thank you so much. 

[00:46:38] Heather: Which like. What would come of that if she called the police?

[00:46:43] I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. But like, it's not go, you're not gonna be sober, but like, trying to just scare her, I 

[00:46:48] Christie: guess. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. It is. Like it's pretty serious charge. Yeah. Yeah. But again, it was before opiate, like today. Yeah. They, they have so many more controls over opiates. Right. Then [00:47:00] I was like, oh, oxys are homeless.

[00:47:01] Right. Yeah. It's like, that was kind of the propaganda that it was, uh, provided to doctors. It was like, it's fine. It's not addictive, you know? So, 

[00:47:10] Zoe: and then did you have to find somewhere to buy it? Yeah, I didn't Because you were immediately, like, when you did them immediately, you like, oh, this is what I'm looking for.

[00:47:18] I this, yeah, this. Yeah. I like this. 

[00:47:19] Christie: Yeah. And I still did lots of like cocaine. Mm-hmm. But, um, the Percocets were my favorite. Mm-hmm. So interesting. 

[00:47:26] Heather: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Do you remember when opiates first got introduced on the 

[00:47:31] Christie: scene? Um. So per, like, everyone in my circle at that time was doing them. Okay. And then the oxy eighties, the green Oxy eighties, um, everyone was doing those.

[00:47:44] Yeah. So kind of like graduated and then they had the coding and, and every, it seemed like everyone was doing them. And then they stopped becoming available. Right. They stopped, uh, they realized that actually, yeah, these are addictive. Mm. Mm-hmm. And they started doing the whatever, the ones you couldn't [00:48:00] crush or like, uh, smoke mm-hmm.

[00:48:02] Or whatever, however you chose to do it. Yeah. Um, and so then my dealer was like, I have something similar. Um, and it turned out to be fentanyl. Oh, okay. So then all these people that had been doing oxys, and it's still harmful, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's not like fentanyl, harmful. And so all these people in my circle that are just all now all of a sudden, were all addicted to fentanyl.

[00:48:21] Right. Holy shit. So, yeah. Did people start dying from fentanyl right away? Um, not in my circle. Okay. No. Uh, the pill, like the pills we were getting. They're strong, but I don't think they're as strong as the stuff you you'd get on the street. Right. Okay. 

[00:48:39] Heather: Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. 'cause I feel like when we talk about fentanyl, it is very much like it's a, it's a crap shoot.

[00:48:46] Like you're gonna take it one day, the next day you take it, you're gonna die. Yeah. Or you're gonna smoke, or you're gonna like, do coke today. Tomorrow you're gonna do coke die. 

[00:48:54] Zoe: Yeah. It, 

[00:48:55] Heather: it feels like this like fearmongering thing that's going on, which I think [00:49:00] it's probably valid. Yeah. Like we should not be just so taking pills.

[00:49:02] But how scary was it to you and your friends? Like was anyone worried about it at all? Was that a consideration that you could overdose on this stuff? I didn't, 

[00:49:12] Christie: no one knew what it was. Yeah. That's the thing. Right. And I didn't even, it wasn't your thing. Wasn't even aware of what I was taking. Mm-hmm. Um, until like the first time I experienced dope sickness where I stopped doing the pills and I'd been doing them for, let's say five days partying.

[00:49:26] And I stopped and I was so sick. Mm-hmm. And I was like, either I gotta go to the doctor. I got the flu or something. Yeah. Didn't go to the doctor. Called my dealer the next day. Instantly wasn't sick. I was like, oh, okay. That's weird, right? Yeah. And I was like, I just have to do the pills every day. Yeah.

[00:49:42] That's manageable. Yeah. Right. Fine. 

[00:49:44] Heather: It is really scary when you feel that body addiction. Mm-hmm. Like. You're like, I don't even think I want this right now. Mm-hmm. But like, I, my body needs it. Yeah. I can't go without 

[00:49:54] Zoe: it. Yeah. 

[00:49:54] Heather: It's a very strange separation of church and state, you know? 

[00:49:58] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:59] Heather: Mm-hmm. So [00:50:00] what was your first overdose?

[00:50:02] Such a crazy question to ask someone. So, brazenly, what's your first overdose? Yeah, let's talk about when you once died. Let's talk about that. 

[00:50:09] Christie: Um, I was alone. Oh. Yeah. So I was getting ready for work, getting high. Um, where did you work at the time? Mm-hmm. Um, what were you doing? Some I was a executive assistant at some tech startup place.

[00:50:25] Okay. Okay. And holding a job down. I'm high functioning. Wow. I'm low bottom, high functioning. Okay. So I look the part, yeah. I can do really good. I can perform, but I am really fucked up. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So I, I 

[00:50:38] Heather: find that that is a scarier thing because it's like. Why would you get sober if you can't? Like I wasn't functioning.

[00:50:45] Yeah. I was just a potato all day. Mm-hmm. So that's like, I'm either a potato for the rest of my life or I get sober. But if you're high functioning, yeah. That would fuck with my brain, I think, and be like, am 

[00:50:54] Zoe: I, do I have a problem? 

[00:50:55] Christie: Did 

[00:50:56] Zoe: you find that? Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred percent. Because I more value of like, oh, I [00:51:00] don't have a problem 'cause I can hold down.

[00:51:01] Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:51:02] Christie: And then I'm getting high and then, uh, I guess I overdosed. Um, and luckily it was, but then I came to, and it had been like two hours. I was like, holy shit. Oh, okay. That's a bit scary, but whatever. What? Like, keep getting ready for work. Oh shit. And so to work, 

[00:51:20] Heather: you were just passed out on the ground for two hours?

[00:51:22] Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Yeah. So scary. It. 

[00:51:29] Christie: Like, yes, I guess. Yeah. 

[00:51:30] Zoe: But you just had to like put that in the back of your mind. Yeah. 

[00:51:31] Heather: And then just move on to, to keep getting high, right? Yeah. Like it's, it's like this is this, these are the consequences and we just deal with them. We can, yeah.

[00:51:38] Now 

[00:51:38] Christie: I'm late for work and shit. I gotta make an excuse. Yeah. So did really get high before. Go think about Yeah, I didn't think about like the, again, the weight of what had really happened to me. Did you ever have to go to the hospital once? Yeah. Yeah. Once. How did 

[00:51:51] Zoe: that, like, was that felt any different?

[00:51:54] Like, more like scary, like holy shit, it's brought me to the hospital? Or was it just like [00:52:00] another slide under the rug thing? 

[00:52:01] Christie: Yeah. Like in the moment it was really scary. Mm-hmm. Uh, coming to, but it didn't again, like have the same weight of it. Future Christie is gonna figure it out. Yeah. Right. It's like, yeah, this is really bad and really scary and like, I should probably stop, but tomorrow.

[00:52:19] Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:20] Zoe: Going back to like, yeah. Ending up in hospitals, doing, having overdoses isn't gonna mm-hmm. Get you sober. Mm-hmm. But walking in the rain one day, remembering a passage from the big book. 

[00:52:31] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:52:32] Zoe: Having that moment mm-hmm. Will get you sober. Mm-hmm. So it's like, 

[00:52:36] Heather: I know that is the scary thing.

[00:52:37] 'cause the image of you like lying on your bathroom floor. Mm-hmm. Just so like little. Is horrible. Mm-hmm. And it is really sad. Like I have these images of me sometimes. I was not so little, but it's sad to like look back and be like, oh my God, that little girl. Yeah. Like, and future Heather is not taking care of her.

[00:52:53] 'cause future Heather is doing the same shit tomorrow. 

[00:52:56] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:56] Heather: It's a very sad thing to look back on it, but in the [00:53:00] moment it isn't like that. Just normal. Right. It's just normal and it's like, oopsy dossy, oops, let's not do that again. Yeah, yeah. Don't 

[00:53:06] Christie: be late for work. Yeah. 

[00:53:08] Heather: You in a facade like, you know.

[00:53:10] Oops. Absolutely. Um, okay. So that overdose I think is, I think, I don't know what an overdose is, honestly. So you pass out, you can come back. You don't need resuscitation necessarily. Sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes 

[00:53:26] Christie: that time, like 

[00:53:27] Heather: thank, thankfully. Right, right. Like, thank God 

[00:53:29] Christie: I, yeah. Thank God. 

[00:53:30] Heather: Did you, do you know when you take something and you're like, this isn't right?

[00:53:34] I have, yeah. I have, the first time I did 

[00:53:37] Christie: Fentanyl, I was the pills. Right. I was like. I felt like I was gonna die a little bit and I was like, I just gotta walk. I need to go walking right now. Right. And like, yeah. Get blood moving. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's like, maybe this isn't normal, but I don't wanna talk about it.

[00:53:49] 'cause I didn't want anyone to know. Real messed Yeah. To make it real. I was feeling, right. Mm-hmm. It's like I can't handle my drugs. Mm-hmm. I have to tell PE I can't tell people I can't handle them. I just gotta pretend I'm okay and like 

[00:53:59] Heather: they won't invite [00:54:00] me next time. Wow. So after this overdose, how many more times do you think you, 

[00:54:07] Christie: oh, I've overdosed 

[00:54:07] Heather: twice.

[00:54:08] Oh, you've a times, okay. Yeah. What was the second time? The hospital, uh, house. Yeah. Oh, and this was when you were with, were you with a partner at this time? Yeah. Okay. And he was using as well? Oh yeah. Relationships and drug use. Yeah. Yeah. How interesting, has relation, have relationships always been a part of your drug use or are you kind of like a lone wolf, bring people in?

[00:54:30] How does that work? Both. 

[00:54:32] Christie: Okay. You know, like 

[00:54:32] Heather: I've done 

[00:54:33] Christie: both. Um, it felt better. Um, that was what I told myself is like, I can be me. Mm-hmm. Because they get me. They know, like they know how to use like me. Yeah. It made my drug use worse. Yeah. For sure. Um, but I also tried to date people that were normal. Oh, you did?

[00:54:49] That were like against me doing drugs when I was just doing coke. Yeah. When of my boyfriends was like, you can't, you don't do drugs. I'm like, no, I don't do drugs. And I would just like chop it up on [00:55:00] lines in the bathroom under his sink and like cover it up and like run in. And he knew I was using because he'd try to like catch me.

[00:55:06] Right. But I was, you know, we're sneaky people. So Sneaky. 

[00:55:10] Heather: Sneaky. Yeah. 

[00:55:11] Christie: It's so, oh my God. You could be in and out there before 

[00:55:12] Heather: anyone even. Exactly. And 

[00:55:13] Christie: I was like, I'm fine. 

[00:55:14] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:55:15] Zoe: Yeah. Just why I sweating. Did you, yeah. Did you like being secretive? Like, would you rather like your boyfriend be not an addict than an addict?

[00:55:25] Like, was that what you were like looking for? Do you think that that was. You were trying to get them to save you, like 

[00:55:31] Christie: subconsciously with, at that time? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um, and then, yeah. And then it after that got too far gone. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, you don't get me right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's always been a big thing is like people understanding me, right?

[00:55:44] It is. Again, I look and I present and I can sound and I mm-hmm. People don't actually see me. Mm-hmm. So I always wanted people to see me, and so people like that didn't see me. Mm-hmm. But people that used like me, they're like, I get you. They get me. 

[00:55:57] Heather: There's also an, it's an interesting choice to make [00:56:00] to date somebody who, you know, doesn't see you.

[00:56:02] Yeah. You're like, what am I doing here? Like, what is that? Like, why it is, I'm like, in different times in our life, like, do we wanna be sneaky? Do we want what? You know, like I was dating someone who lived in my den for a year. Like, he didn't talk to me for a whole year. We'd had sex. Like never ever, actually, ever.

[00:56:18] And I am like, why did I. Stay. Yeah. I think at that point it was like a u like I was useless. Like I, there was nothing else that's as good as it was ever gonna get for me. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm like, yeah. Why are we dating people who aren't addicts? 

[00:56:33] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:56:34] Heather: When we're in addiction. Yeah. 

[00:56:35] Zoe: Because it's 

[00:56:36] Heather: like, I mean, I 

[00:56:36] Zoe: didn't, 

[00:56:37] Heather: I only did addicts drinking smart.

[00:56:40] I think probably, I, I tried to date non-addicts because I didn't believe I was an addict. Yeah. And I really did feel, really felt like, oh, if I just get a boyfriend mm-hmm. I'll stop drinking. Right. Exactly. As if I've ever taken anything positive from a man before. Like, I'm like, in what world? But I, I was like, well, and that's not [00:57:00] gonna happen anytime soon.

[00:57:01] Mm-hmm. So I've got all this time to keep drinking, and then when I get a boyfriend mm-hmm. Yeah. Then I'll stop drinking for sure. Sure. 

[00:57:06] Zoe: Yeah. No, I think I just like, I. I couldn't picture having a boyfriend that didn't drink like me. What the fuck would we do? Like I'm gonna be drinking all day. You have to be an alcoholic if you're gonna be with me.

[00:57:19] Heather: We always talk about how we wouldn't be friends when we were in our addictions. Why? Because Zoe would wanna go out. Yeah. And she would yell at me for not wanting to go out. You never 

[00:57:26] Zoe: come out. Yeah. We always say you're 

[00:57:28] Heather: gonna and you never do. And then I'd be mad that she didn't wanna just come over and drink wine on the couch.

[00:57:32] Yeah. 

[00:57:33] Zoe: We'd have like a one month like great relationship. Yeah. And then eventually it would be like that, it would fizzle. Yeah. It's exactly better now. It's good. Now it's better now. 

[00:57:41] Heather: Um, do you have, uh, friends from, uh, your addiction still from when you were in it? Or is anyone sober that you're friends with?

[00:57:49] Most of them have died. Mm, I'm so sorry. 

[00:57:52] Christie: Yeah. Uh, most of them have died. A couple of people have gotten sober. Um, but I moved so [00:58:00] much. Yeah. Um, and I moved fun groups and I moved locations, so I lost touch with a lot of people. Mm-hmm. Um, some of the people I was using or drinking with weren't normal people and were able to do life.

[00:58:12] Yeah. Um, other people. Yeah. Just party on weekends type thing. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the people Yeah. Have died or, uh, that's a reality of it. Right? A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, 

[00:58:24] Heather: I just, I do, I I do wanna know a little bit of what that feels like when you're in a community of people and they start dying.

[00:58:34] Mm. I know that's so rough and hard to think about, but you're also, I'm assuming it's giving you this in like invincibility cloak a little bit, right? Where you're like, but also sadness. Mm-hmm. I'm wondering, is that the dichotomy you're feeling those two things being 

[00:58:50] Christie: sober and having Yeah, like it's like.

[00:58:54] So I'm grateful. Mm-hmm. Right. Because I, um, I'm sober. I'm really [00:59:00] sad about them. Every loss is so different. Mm-hmm. Right. Like I. I had someone in my first year of sobriety, I lost a friend and they were, uh, really callous and they're like, you gotta get used to it. Like, this is just normal for you. Mm-hmm.

[00:59:13] And I felt really upset by that. 'cause that's someone's son. Mm-hmm. That's someone's daughter. Like, don't, don't do that. Right. So I've been very intentional with like, every loss that I've had, there's been so many, like honoring it and feeling like, okay, this is my relationship with that person. Right. Yeah.

[00:59:30] It's not about me, but also like it's about that person. Mm-hmm. Um, but the reality, that's my reality too. Right? Like, it doesn't matter how sober I am, how long I've been here, if I use like, it's people like me that die, right? Yeah. Because like I can't handle drugs anymore. Mm-hmm. Right. I could when I was using them.

[00:59:48] Yeah. 'cause I was using them, but now it's people like me that go use and die. Right? Yeah. And that, yeah. Lots of people that I've known have had time and gone and, uh, yeah. Just never made it back. So. [01:00:00] 

[01:00:00] Heather: And do you, is that because of tolerance changing when people go back and use, or are the drugs different?

[01:00:05] Yeah, the drugs are different. The drugs are different 

[01:00:06] Christie: too, for sure. And it's like when you keep using them, then you get used to them. Mm-hmm. Sometimes. But it's still like, yeah, it's a really bad drug supply. Yeah. Okay. You know, it's a really bad drug supply. 

[01:00:18] Heather: Why is that? Just 'cause drugs are illegal cheap.

[01:00:21] Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, like I feel, 'cause I feel like it's gotten really bad in the past, like decade. Like I feel like. With the opiate crisis and then just carfentanyl, which I don't even really know what that car, fentanyl car ol is like. Never heard of that one. It's like not as processed, right?

[01:00:38] Or what is it? 

[01:00:38] Christie: I don't know what it is, but it's a, the chemical compound is a lot more potent for us, so it's a lot more strong. Mm-hmm. And then they also mix it with like benzos now too. Yeah. Just to make the drug is like, you want a little bit of drugs to go a really long way, so they put lots of filler in it.

[01:00:53] Mm-hmm. And they put benzos and these other drugs in them, uh, that make it really hard to resuscitate you. 

[01:00:58] Zoe: Well, that's the thing. I [01:01:00] think they're just trying to like, make these drugs like so intense. Like even if I smoked weed right now, like weed is different than weed 10 years ago when I was smoking it, you know?

[01:01:09] Yeah. I'd assume so. Why are they making all the drugs so fucking hard? Like, let's chill it back out a bit, bro. I know. 

[01:01:15] Heather: It's so profitable. Yeah, but it's like, it's so out of hand too, because if you're cutting everything and filling it with bullshit. Yeah, yeah. And you have this much fentanyl and like this much baby powder.

[01:01:23] Zoe: Yeah. And 

[01:01:24] Heather: it's like, what is the plan here? Yeah. Like what is the business model? 

[01:01:28] Zoe: No, the Coco was doing. Definitely had so many laxatives in it. Yeah, because like fucking, I was pooping so much. Did you? 

[01:01:36] Heather: So much shitting in the park shit, I, I 

[01:01:39] Zoe: literally shit in the park. No. 

[01:01:42] Heather: Where's the weirdest place? You've taken a shit 

[01:01:44] Christie: in a 

[01:01:45] Heather: park.

[01:01:45] Yeah. In for sure. Fuck 

[01:01:46] Zoe: yeah, for sure. 

[01:01:47] Heather: Oh god. Cute girls. Watch them when they go to the park. That's a real problem. To 

[01:01:51] Christie: go in the bushes. Yeah. Do you know what's happening? No. I didn't even go 

[01:01:54] Zoe: into a bush, Christie. I went to the dugout. To the dugout of the baseball diamond at my gosh, Trinity [01:02:00] Bellwood. Oh my gosh.

[01:02:02] Yeah. Like at sunset, like at 8:00 PM on a July night. Okay. A gorgeous time. Yeah. A gorgeous, gorgeous time. Beautiful. Skyler Must have been beautiful. Yeah, it 

[01:02:10] Heather: was nice. Picture us a, a slight breeze up. 

[01:02:13] Zoe: The X Oh my god, it's so gross. Yeah. 

[01:02:18] Heather: From that second time you went into a rehab mm-hmm. You've been. Clean since.

[01:02:24] Mm-hmm. Holy shit. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. When you were in rehab, did you know you had to stop? Yes. Like fully, fully, because Zoe talks about this, that you didn't necessarily 

[01:02:36] Zoe: know that it was a full cut off with alcohol. Yeah. I think like when I went in, I just like knew I didn't wanna like die. I didn't know I had to stop forever.

[01:02:45] Mm-hmm. And I think. If I knew that, I probably wouldn't have even gone to rehab probably. Mm-hmm. If that actually fully processed in my brain. Oh God. But 

[01:02:56] Heather: it's so scary. Don't tell anybody. Tell everyone they're just going for a 30 day [01:03:00] vacation. Yeah. Literally. 

[01:03:02] Zoe: So I think when I got there, like I had like probably like the first week I did come to that conclusion of like, okay, I guess I cannot, 'cause I'm now learning what alcoholism is in rehab.

[01:03:15] Mm-hmm. And I'm finding out like, oh yeah. Like this is what I have and I'm not alone and everyone else in rehab is like me. Mm-hmm. Which I think if I didn't have that, that's another big support of like, being around people who are similar to me and I'm not alone in this. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, in that first week, I think I did come to terms with, okay, I can't.

[01:03:36] Do this anymore. How am I gonna stay stopped? You know? Yeah. So you're in rehab, you know you have to stop when you get out. Are you scared? Did you have a rehab boyfriend? Oh yeah. 

[01:03:48] Christie: I was in a woman's rehab. Woman's only rehab. Did you have a son rehab girlfriend? No. No. Nothing. I, yeah, I like rehab friends.

[01:03:56] Yeah. Um, but that's nice. If I did it again, I'd do 

[01:03:59] Heather: [01:04:00] all female. Yeah. I think I would have to as well. Yeah, it was 

[01:04:02] Zoe: nice. 

[01:04:03] Heather: Yeah, it was 

[01:04:03] Zoe: really cute. Um, did you have a lot of women friends before that? No. No. You had Good question, Zoe. Yeah, I was gonna 

[01:04:10] Heather: ask that too, because the, being vulnerable around women, you said like you're so much more comfortable with men.

[01:04:16] Yeah. I feel like that would've been different. Yeah. Like your vulnerability with men. I'm like that. Yeah. It's not the same. I'm like doing it for a reason, but when it's women mm-hmm. I'm like. Oh, we're like trusting each other. Yeah. Yeah. With men, it's more flippant. They're dumber. It's, yeah. And not really, but in my head.

[01:04:33] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's different. A different thing can do some more. Yeah. 

[01:04:35] Zoe: Yeah. Thank God you did go to a woman's. Yeah. Only like, do you ever think about that? Like what would've been if you went to like. Like men as well. 

[01:04:45] Christie: Like I would've probably had a rehab boyfriend. Yeah, yeah. You know, like, just for sure.

[01:04:49] For sure. You would've look at, you're so cute. He's so cute. Like, I'd go to, we went to meetings and I was like, that guy's cute. Or that guy's cute, but I couldn't really talk to them. Yeah, right. So [01:05:00] 

[01:05:00] Heather: I would al that's when I, I don't go to meetings now. Mm-hmm. We will get into meetings. I don't go to meetings.

[01:05:04] But in rehab we did. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like mm-hmm. Just every single, my main objective at the meeting was to like find who was cute. Yeah. And I can like, get them to smile at me. Yeah. Like, what are we doing here? Exactly. Like you're an addict. Stop looking at, truly it's, but rehab does camp Well 'cause you're a baby.

[01:05:21] Yeah. You are a baby. You're a baby when you 

[01:05:23] Zoe: get sober. So Of 

[01:05:24] Heather: course, oh my God. Everyone's just like, as sick as they possibly could be. And you're just all starting at the worst. It's nice. Yeah. So, okay. Recovery, you get out. What is that first month for you? Like getting outta rehab? Oh, it's 

[01:05:37] Christie: really hard. So I meant back to live with my parents for the first month.

[01:05:41] Uh, in Guelph and yeah. I didn't, like, I tried going to meetings there. Mm-hmm. Um, I just, uh, it was really hard. It was the holidays. Mm. Um, it was cold. Oh, it was Christmas. Yeah. Yeah. I was lonely, you know? Yeah. Did 

[01:05:56] Heather: your parents drink? Oh yeah. Oh, they did? Oh, did they drink around [01:06:00] you when you got outta rehab?

[01:06:00] Oh, yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Why do you think they did that? It just, they just didn't think it mattered. Yeah, exactly. 

[01:06:08] Christie: Okay. It doesn't, um, like it, we talked before I went into rehab and it was like, the goal was to get me to a place where I could drink like a lady, you know? Oh, really? Okay. So it was like they, that was the hope, right?

[01:06:19] Yeah. It was like, you can drink again one day. Right? Yeah. Uh, they just, it's not, they just don't understand. Yeah. And that's okay. Right. It's, it's okay. Totally. I was not okay with it at the time. You know? I think it was like my 60 days we went to, it was, I was moving to Toronto. Mm-hmm. And we went to a pub and they like trying these different beers.

[01:06:38] I was so angry, right? Mm-hmm. It was like, I have 60 days to Yeah. Mm-hmm. All the days. Yeah. Like, how dare you? But really like, it doesn't, yeah, it's, I'm the problem, you know? Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:06:49] Heather: It used to bother me too. And I'm, I am really hard on people to, not hard on people, but I do suggest like, tell people around you how you're feeling.

[01:06:56] Like if you just get sober, like my parents didn't know [01:07:00] either. My mom thought, did I already say this? My mom thought that I was going into rehab to come out and be able to drink like a lady. A hundred percent. That's what she thought. Thought that's the 

[01:07:07] Zoe: opposite. My dad like wrote me a note in rehab and was like, make sure you know that you cannot drink when you get out.

[01:07:13] Well, I, 

[01:07:14] Heather: I wasn't around, I wasn't around my parents. Yeah. I probably within those like pat last two years of drinking, I probably saw them four times. Yeah. So they just saw that my, how bad it was. He was like, shit, but they didn't know. Yeah. Yeah. Um. So I think that way it was like, oh yeah, we wanna get her back to baseline, to be able to drink like a regular person.

[01:07:32] They didn't know. 

[01:07:32] Zoe: And I wonder if that's because like, they want you to like still like be able to like drink with them. Like, well, I think that's really for them to not think about their drinking maybe. Like, I don't, is that a part of it? I don't, they, 

[01:07:44] Christie: it is just part of their life, right? Yeah. They're normal people.

[01:07:47] Like they, they couldn't imagine a life without it. If this was beer, they'd be okay leaving that much beer in it, whereas I couldn't, right. Yeah, exactly. Oh my God. So 

[01:07:56] Heather: yeah, sometimes we talk about like, um, people, like, I just had [01:08:00] this revelation the other day though, when I, I always say like, oh, if I could, if I would, I could.

[01:08:03] Mm-hmm. No. If I could, I would like, if I could like people on a had, if I could, if I could drink a glass of wine right now and just go home, I would. And then like the other day, I think I said it to you and then I was like, that's not true. Yeah. 

[01:08:14] Zoe: Yeah. I don't 

[01:08:14] Heather: feel like that at all anymore. Yeah. Like that's.

[01:08:18] Exactly. That's a thing I say it's an old 

[01:08:20] Christie: pattern. 

[01:08:20] Heather: Yeah. Thought. Right. But I'm like, like I'm not jealous. I'm not resentful. Mm-hmm. I don't walk by. Sometimes when Maddie gets a glass of wine and that cold pinot grge goes into her class, her glass, I'm like, Ooh, that feels good. Mm-hmm. But then that's so fleeting.

[01:08:33] So wic. Yeah. Then I'm like, why am I still saying that? Like mm-hmm. If I could have a drink like everyone else, like it's just not true. Yeah. Its not true anymore. That's not a possibility. Yeah. It's not my fault. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you're out 60 days. You are moving to Toronto. You're moving to Toronto.

[01:08:49] Toronto, yep. By yourself? Yes. Okay. Me and my dog. You and your dog. Yes. I'm so sweet. You're moving to Toronto. For what? Life, just life. Yeah. [01:09:00] Start now. Can't. Yeah. '

[01:09:00] Zoe: cause you went to rehab in Toronto. I did. The group of girls that you met there, you liked the meetings in Toronto? 

[01:09:06] Christie: I liked them. I just, I don't like small towns very much.

[01:09:09] Yeah. Like Guelph felt like a, um. Not in Octa Gu, but just where I was then it was like, it felt like a, A prison sentence. Yeah. You know, it's small. Yeah. Going back to like where you probably like started, right? Yeah. You know, essentially. Yeah. And it just like, it just didn't, it didn't resonate. Yeah. But being in the city, I was like, I feel like the energy, I'm like, I feel comfortable here.

[01:09:32] This is where I wanna be. So yeah, I came back here. Nice. Didn't know anyone though, like, it's 

[01:09:38] Heather: so crazy. Yeah. It's really remarkable actually to me to like, to get outta rehab, get sober, and then go, okay, I'm ready to go now I'm ready to go to Toronto and live there. Like, were you at all scared or were you Well, no, you guys don't have that, were you?

[01:09:53] I think now we are 

[01:09:54] Zoe: because 

[01:09:54] Heather: we're 

[01:09:54] Zoe: sober. 

[01:09:56] Heather: Did you have any fears like, I'm not gonna be able to handle it or I'm gonna use again, or, [01:10:00] or were you pretty confident? I. 

[01:10:03] Christie: So when I first got outta treatment, going back to my families, I, I had some fear, right? Like, I think it's normal to be like, I don't wanna use again.

[01:10:11] Mm-hmm. Um, but moving here, I didn't have that, you know, I did when I got a job. Mm-hmm. And I had to, it was like in tech, you know, I was a few years sober at this time. I was scared I was gonna drink then. Mm-hmm. Was because you had money coming in. Yeah. Yeah. And it was just new and everyone drank, right?

[01:10:28] Mm-hmm. Um. But at that point I wasn't, I was like, I was very, I'd made a decision mm-hmm. To be sober. Mm-hmm. And so I didn't have fear at that time. Okay. When, what, did you get your sponsor like quickly at like, when you were in rehab? No, outta rehab. Outta rehab. I met her, she came into my, uh, treatment center, but I didn't know she'd be my sponsor.

[01:10:50] Mm. Because when I, I tried a bunch of meetings and I found one where I was like, oh, this feels good. Mm-hmm. Like, I really like this one. This feels like home. And she was [01:11:00] there and I was like, oh, 

[01:11:00] Zoe: cool. Coincidence. Yeah. 

[01:11:02] Christie: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

[01:11:03] Heather: Cute. Were you open about your sobriety? Did you tell people you were working with like, oh, I don't drink 

[01:11:09] Christie: at first.

[01:11:10] No. No. Okay. Like, it took me a while to be comfortable. To be comfortable. Right. I didn't shy from it. Mm-hmm. Um, but I didn't lead with it either, you know? Yeah. Um, and people didn't know, right. Like, uh, when I started that tech job. I'd buy beer for everyone and they just Oh, really? Yeah. So I have a funny story.

[01:11:31] The first time that Christie go buy some beer for everyone, I think I was like three years sober. Like, just go to the liquor store that's right there and go buy beer for our Friday. Happy hours. Mm-hmm. Okay. I was like. What kind of beer? Like the usual kind is like, okay, what's the usual kind of, I don't know what that is, like how much they're like the usual amount.

[01:11:51] It's like, okay, okay. So I go there and I'm like, you know, thinking about how much I would drink, right? And I was like, okay, I'm gonna half it. Right? And so I come [01:12:00] in and I'm carrying like, it was a enormous amount and I'm strong. I'm carrying so much beer. And I felt like, you know, everyone's staring at me.

[01:12:08] Oh God, right? They're all staring and I think it's 'cause they're amazed. 'cause I'm so strong that beer lasted us six weeks, six happy hours. And so in my head I don't so much 

[01:12:18] Zoe: beer. Did you 

[01:12:18] Christie: buy 

[01:12:19] Zoe: like two boxes? 

[01:12:21] Christie: More than that? More than that. Because I was like, I don't know what, I don't know what this is.

[01:12:24] Yeah, right. Yeah. But no one. I told people, I was like, yeah, I don't, I don't drink. But they would forget, right? Yeah. Because they'd start drinking and be like, here's have another. I'm like, oh actually I don't drink. But you can't tell I don't drink. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, 'cause I'm just me, right? Yeah. That's the, by this point I'm just me.

[01:12:41] I'm just, Christie and 

[01:12:42] Heather: Christie goes on two beer runs and it lasts the year. We're good to go. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that is so funny. Funny. That reminds 

[01:12:49] Zoe: me of when I was probably like, what, six months sober. I called you 'cause my babysitter's husband asked me to go get wine from the LCBO. I remember. Yeah. And I was like, I [01:13:00] guess I have to do this.

[01:13:02] Heather: Yeah. It's okay. 

[01:13:03] Zoe: And yeah, I called you like before and after I went in there, it was like crazy. When I 

[01:13:07] Heather: heard that story I was like, what? What? What? I was like, first of all, how dare they ask you that? But you are sober. They know that. How dare they, second of all, so weird for like a man that's not your partner or friend to like ask you for alcohol.

[01:13:20] Yeah. Very strange. And then also like. I don't know. I was so nervous about that story. I haven't been into an LCBO. I like, wanted to go for like a mocktail thing and then I was like, you know what, no, she's not ready to go yet. Yeah. Like those, that's, that's my home. You know? I think it 

[01:13:34] Zoe: was scary to go by myself.

[01:13:37] Um, but yeah, like I knew I had to like talk, talk to you after. Mm-hmm. So like I knew I couldn't do anything shady. Mm-hmm. Which was probably how I got through it. As Zoe's 

[01:13:46] Heather: sponsor, she makes that call to you? Mm-hmm. Are you asking like, should I, can I do this? Is this okay? Are I probably asked you? Yeah.

[01:13:55] Yeah. Are you giving advice or what are you doing in that 

[01:13:59] Christie: situation? Ask [01:14:00] questions. How do you feel? Right. Okay. Like, how are you feeling? What's your intention? What are you doing this for? Are you going in there so you can look at the wine? Mm-hmm. Are you just going in there to be helpful to someone else?

[01:14:10] Because if you're just going in there to be helpful, it'll probably be okay. Okay. You know, 

[01:14:14] Heather: when did you become a sponsor? 

[01:14:17] Christie: I was like nine months sober. 

[01:14:18] Heather: Oh, wow. So you go through all the steps in nine months and then you became a Yeah. I 

[01:14:22] Christie: wasn't actually, like, again, this is just my experience, whatever. Sure.

[01:14:25] I wasn't through the steps yet. Okay. Um, 'cause I had somebody that was very, I had experienced a lot of trauma. Mm-hmm. And I was close to them and they wanted to get sober. Um, and they'd asked me to be my sponsor. Their sponsor, and I think I was on step nine. Okay. Okay. And my sponsor was like, well, you're ahead of them in the steps, so.

[01:14:43] Sure. So, okay. Yeah. 

[01:14:46] Heather: And is your sponsor that you had from the beginning still your sponsor? 

[01:14:49] Christie: Oh, no. Okay. Oh, no, she, you switched around? Yeah, she passed away. My first sponsor. Mm-hmm. Um, she got really unwell. Um, and I, I was like, okay, this isn't [01:15:00] working. I was more of her sponsor and then I got another sponsor, and then her son died of our disease, and then I became her sponsor.

[01:15:07] Wow. Um, and then my next sponsor, she had a stroke. Um, and, uh, yeah, she wasn't my sponsor anymore. And then I had, I just looking, I'm getting a new sponsor right now. Mm. Okay. Yeah. 

[01:15:21] Heather: Yeah. Okay. Wow. So you, you can switch around your sponsors if, well, I guess if things happen 

[01:15:25] Zoe: Yeah. Or, or whenever, like if or whenever.

[01:15:28] It doesn't, if you just wanna do a new switch, it's open, like you can do whatever 

[01:15:32] Heather: you want. Oh my God. But can you imagine going up to your sponsor and being like, I don't 

[01:15:36] Zoe: want, 

[01:15:37] Heather: it's okay though. I wouldn't have to 

[01:15:38] Zoe: move. 

[01:15:39] Christie: Yeah. Moving town, it's like, bless you. Yeah. Whatever is best for you and your sobriety.

[01:15:45] Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's not like I've been with this sponsor, I, I'm with her right now. Or like, I, I had the conversation was like, thank you for everything. We're just, we're not aligned. I've been with her for a couple years and she helped me through what she was, but we just stopped. [01:16:00] It. Just stopped working.

[01:16:01] Mm-hmm. 

[01:16:01] Heather: Well, yeah, that kind of makes sense to me actually, because it's like, especially when it comes to sobriety the first year to like, I'm almost at my third year. Yeah. You changed. I changed, changed so much. Mm-hmm. For sure. So yeah. The things that I needed from somebody, I probably would've really needed a mom.

[01:16:15] Mm-hmm. You know, when I first got out, which is basically what my therapist is, but. Yeah. And then that might be different from what I need now. Yeah. So that is interesting. And you're not being paid to be a sponsor, so it isn't that thing of like, oh God, I'm taking away from your business. It's like, yeah, now you just have a little more space in your phone.

[01:16:31] Christie: Or it's like, it's whatever. Like it's, everyone's journey is so different, right? So it's like, I recognize I'm not always the best. Right. And if someone does have a bad reaction, like it just verifies that you've made the right choice. Right? Yeah. So it's not personal. Did you know right away that you liked having sponsees?

[01:16:49] That I liked having sponsees it. So that was how I actually learned, um, about. The the steps. Mm-hmm. Because I was like, [01:17:00] oh, that's what this means. Right. Because I went through it myself and it was helpful and I started gaining freedom. But then when I saw I was talking about it with someone else, I was like, you're doing this.

[01:17:10] I was like, oh, I do that. 

[01:17:11] Heather: Yeah. Right, right. So 

[01:17:12] Christie: it was just a different level of observation and awareness of what it like meant, you know? 

[01:17:17] Heather: Oh my God. That like brings me, my dad. I know my dad's gonna text me this, but it's like, he would always say like, well if you can teach it to someone, that's how you know.

[01:17:25] Exactly. So he would make me like teach him my like history lessons from, oh God no. He's like, you can explain it to me. Dads. Yeah. The best. The best. Yeah. Like sometimes ours are the best, but, okay. So that is like something that I learned from you. Is that Zoe? For people who aren't watching, just pointing me.

[01:17:47] Is that Yeah. Like being a sponsor, I'm sure I'm gonna say this wrong, is like. Helpful for the addict. Like that is one of the, would you say is that one of the main points of being a sponsor is to also [01:18:00] 

[01:18:00] Zoe: help yourself? Well, that's just the goal. Like when you're done the steps, you become an addict. Mm-hmm.

[01:18:04] You become an addict or you become a sponsor. Once you're done, you go right back out.

[01:18:13] We did that at the same, that was crazy. We gotta clip that. We're gonna clip that. Yeah. Um, 

[01:18:19] Heather: but yeah, so that is okay. Like the goal. Okay. And you, and you do feel like that, like you feel, you feel good because I guess my question is I would feel very stressed if I was helping all of these young, is it just women that you work with?

[01:18:35] Spencer? Yeah, with young women or women of any age. I would feel anxious about being texted whenever or having to save people, which I know is not the goal, but I would fall into that. So I'm wondering how do you navigate? Keeping yourself from transfer, uh, what do they call it when it, it's trauma, like transfer trauma or like by [01:19:00] proxy where like I'm telling you something and then you're getting sad.

[01:19:03] Like, how do you Oh. 

[01:19:04] Christie: So I am a very empathetic person. Yeah. I feel, and that's part of why I became an addict, I believe is like mm-hmm. I feel deeply. Yeah. Um, but with sponsorship, it's like I, it's not me. Yeah. And I'm so clear on that. 

[01:19:18] Zoe: And we know that because we know that no one else could have got us sober.

[01:19:22] Exactly. 

[01:19:22] Christie: Yeah. 

[01:19:23] Zoe: I can only get myself sober. Exactly. I don't have, and so I think like as a sponsor, you don't, you, you don't have that because you know, you, at the end of the day, you can't save someone. Yeah. It's not on us. Yeah, 

[01:19:34] Heather: I know. But when do you learn that? Because I feel like, is that a hurdle? Was that a hurdle for you?

[01:19:39] 'cause it would be for me. 

[01:19:40] Christie: I, yeah. It was, part of it was experiential where like, um, but also I. What? So I thought about my ideals, right? And that's a big part of my recovery. What are my ideals? How do I wanna show up as a friend, as a partner, as a sponsor, right? And how do I want my sponsor to show up for me?

[01:19:59] And I [01:20:00] was like, I don't want someone to, you know, I was like, did my sponsor drag me through? Like, no, absolutely not. Did I like know my sponsor? Tell me what to do? It was like, she made suggestions, but she was never like, you have to do this or else, right? Mm-hmm. So I was like, that's what it is for me too.

[01:20:16] Right? And I don't, I don't ever, so someone in Vancouver, when I did recovery there was like meet people where they are, right. I'm never someone to be like, you need to go to rehab. You need to go to detox. If someone's struggling. I'm not like. Because that's a barrier for people. Yeah. 'cause then they're like, I can only talk to Christie if I am wanting to talk about recovery.

[01:20:35] Mm-hmm. Or it's like, I want you to call me no matter what. Right. Yeah. Got a sponsee, um, call me. Um, it was New Year's Eve I remember. 'cause I had to work big day for us. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And she, uh, she'd relapsed by this point. So she thought she would get a year sober and she was living. Pretty dishonestly.

[01:20:56] She thought she'd get a year sober and things miraculously would be [01:21:00] better and that wasn't the case. So she relapsed. Mm-hmm. And I never, for the gap of like a month, I never was like, you need to go to rehab, you need to go to detox. Never people were telling her that. But I was like, no, it's not my responsibility.

[01:21:12] I'm there to be helpful to her. 

[01:21:13] Zoe: Okay. 

[01:21:13] Christie: So I said like, I love you where you are. And so New Year's Eve, she called me and it was funny 'cause it was like 7:00 AM and she's like, yeah, I'm coming over to do bookwork. I'm like, no, it's 7:00 PM And she's like, oh, oops. Well I guess I'm gonna go use, I'm like, oh shit.

[01:21:28] Alright babe. Like, it's like, I love you, like be safe, whatever. She's like, I love you too, so much. And she ended up, uh, passing away. Mm-hmm. But if I had been like, you need to go to rehab, you know, to go to treatment, she wouldn't have called me. 

[01:21:42] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:21:43] Christie: You know, 

[01:21:43] Zoe: and I think, I see we've had this conversation where you were like, you can't get, you can't take away someone's like.

[01:21:50] Like when they do say like, oh, I wanna go to rehab. Like that's big for that. Exactly. You want them to get there on their own. Exactly. You don't wanna take away that, their experience of getting [01:22:00] there. Yeah. So you do truly have to like, let them get there on their own and not tell them, and then take it away from them.

[01:22:05] Exactly. Kind of thing. Or 

[01:22:06] Christie: when someone's relapses, it's like, bro, I know. It's so clear. Yeah. Yeah. I'm never like, you're not sober. Yeah. It's like, are you okay? Like, yeah, I'm fine. Everything's great. I'm like, okay. Yeah. Okay. So you don't 

[01:22:16] Heather: call 

[01:22:17] Christie: people out if they're, yeah. Okay. It's not my 

[01:22:18] Heather: place. Right? No. That make, I, I do, I like that it's very safe mm-hmm.

[01:22:24] To show up as you are. Mm-hmm. Even if it's like, not what you would do, it's like, 

[01:22:27] Christie: it's like, okay, yeah. Yeah. Like, no, like it's not about me. It's like, this is your journey. I'm like, mm-hmm. Okay. No problem. Like, yeah. 

[01:22:34] Heather: Well, and that's where at the beginning where I'm like, oh, this like proclivity where like, I'm better than everybody else.

[01:22:38] Yeah. I don't think that when it comes to addiction, and I feel like having addiction is that thing that like pulls everyone back to the ground. Mm-hmm. And like, yeah, you're. People who say, I wanna get sober, I wanna get sober. And that annoying cycle of I wanna get sober, it's like, no, but they do. Exactly.

[01:22:56] Do they really do. So it can be annoying and if it's [01:23:00] too annoying, you can walk away from it. Exactly. But like that door is cracking. Yeah. So like, that's a really good thing you got, I wanna keep it open. Yeah. It's like, it's like you 

[01:23:07] Christie: wanna get sober. It's like, okay, 

[01:23:08] Heather: yeah. I'm here. Right. Do you ever feel the, or maybe in the beginning, the pull to like be like, go to rehab?

[01:23:14] Did you ever No. No. Okay. 

[01:23:17] Christie: I, that was, that's just not me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just like. Uh, maybe in the beginning, let me think. It's been a minute. Mm-hmm. But it's been 10 whole years. Yeah. Years maybe. It's wild. So I learned things, uh, easily in the start where like, you know, uh, someone wouldn't show up and they'd keep pushing it off and I'd be like, it's okay.

[01:23:36] We can move it. We can move it, we can move it. And then it was like, no, this is your time. You get this time. This is your time. You're gonna meet, you're gonna meet at my house. Mm-hmm. 'cause so many people just don't show up. Mm-hmm. And like, it's like, I wanna be there for you, but also like, if you, that's what I did.

[01:23:49] Yeah. So if you want what I have, you did do what I did. Mm-hmm. Um, so that having that boundary and then also just like, yeah, what, what do you want? And it's mm-hmm. People say, I'm too [01:24:00] soft sometimes because I'm just like, okay. Yeah. But have you seen her carry beer? I'm so strong. Strong. She's literally so strong.

[01:24:07] So strong. And you guys should be so impressed by how much beer I should carry. Yeah. No, but 

[01:24:12] Zoe: it is true to the fact of like. I being so soft and like letting me like get there on my own. Mm-hmm. I wouldn't have been like as proud of myself if I had a sponsor pushing me to do this, this, and this. I wouldn't be so proud of myself that I did it all by myself.

[01:24:31] Mm-hmm. You know? So it is, it's a beautiful thing. Do you think that's one of your biggest realizations from having a sponsor? From having Christie? Probably in general. You know, like I spent months just going to your house every week. Mm-hmm. And being so excited and like actually truly working on myself.

[01:24:52] Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:53] Heather: I 

[01:24:53] Zoe: was gonna say, can I be annoying and ask you what your 

[01:24:55] Heather: favorite thing about Christie is? Oh.[01:25:00] 

[01:25:02] Zoe: Oh no. Oh no. This has never happened before, Zoe. Oh my God. Don't even worry. This really cool, this really cool Kleenex box That is

[01:25:19] so I know. Oh my God. No. Okay. But yeah, it's just, um, you saved my life, dude. Oh, I love you. Yeah, I need to, it's okay. We can just pause for a sec.

[01:25:41] Is my makeup over my 

[01:25:42] Heather: face? No. You look great. No, not at all. Great. Amazing. I would love for you to come in here one day and not look perfect. It's really shocking when I see the footage back. I'm like, Zoe looks great. It goes to my camera. I'm like, oh my God. I experimented with eyeliner today. Definitely get the better 

[01:25:56] Zoe: lighting.

[01:25:57] So good. Coming from this way. Oh god. [01:26:00] Good thing for that, eh? Thank God. Thanks, mama. 

[01:26:03] Heather: Oh, you okay? Yeah, I think I'm good. Um, let's take a pause on you for a sec. Okay. Pause on me. Are you okay? I'm okay. Okay. Um, what would you say is the, because there's two questions. There's like you as a sober person and then as a sponsor.

[01:26:19] Mm-hmm. What do you feel like you've learned about yourself or the, the biggest thing you've learned about yourself being a sponsor or, I'm sure it changes being a sponsor. 

[01:26:29] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[01:26:31] Christie: Um, everyone's journey's their own. Mm-hmm. You know, that's, I think that's like, that's it. Right. Um, and that's again, just how I sponsor.

[01:26:42] It's like loving people where they are and who they are. Mm-hmm. And everyone's unique and individual and teaches me about myself and mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I don't have to control things. Yeah. You know, it's okay to just be like, okay, I love you. 

[01:26:55] Heather: Yeah. Just like, be there. Yeah. I'm crying now. [01:27:00] That was delayed a whole mess now.

[01:27:01] God. Yeah. Ugh. It's just so nice. 'cause it is, it's like people do things every day, all day. 

[01:27:10] Christie: Mm-hmm. 

[01:27:11] Heather: People go to work, they cancel, they go home, they have their families, they have their shit, but it's like, there are some people who just save our fucking lives. Mm. And I know we save our own lives, but like mm-hmm.

[01:27:23] I'm not at a place where I'm like, oh, yeah, I did that all on my own. There's no fucking way. Like I, there are things that were said to me in rehab that I'm like, fuck yeah. That, that's the thing that stuck with me. That's the thing that like 

[01:27:35] Christie: Yeah. 

[01:27:35] Heather: Kept me sober in a way. Yeah. And that's, I think why I'm so interested in what you, how you, uh, 

[01:27:44] Zoe: live your life.

[01:27:44] Live your life and act 

[01:27:45] Heather: as a sponsor because it's 

[01:27:46] Zoe: like, 

[01:27:47] Heather: I know what you've done for Zoe and what you've done for so many people and what sponsors do for people. Mm-hmm. And I know how fucking hard it is to be an addict and exist. Mm-hmm. 

[01:27:58] Zoe: It's just like the program though. It's [01:28:00] not just sponsors, it's just like the program of AA is just, it's.

[01:28:05] What helps people just keep coming around. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. It's a circle. Well, 

[01:28:10] Heather: I think the part of this whole conversation where it's like, you've mentioned it like you didn't feel seen mm-hmm. You're looking to feel seen, you like do radical things to feel seen, like just somebody fucking see me and I feel like this relationship, there's like, you can't 

[01:28:24] Christie: Yeah.

[01:28:24] Like you Yeah. It's very clear. Yeah. It's the most vulnerable relationship. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And for sure. And it's like you, we, I say that at the start, it's like mm-hmm. It's the most vulnerable relationship and the most sacred relationships that I have. Mm-hmm. Is like with you. Yeah. You know, where we can just show up for each other and there's no pretenses or like, I'm, we have the same 

[01:28:44] Zoe: Yeah.

[01:28:44] Christie: You know? Yeah. 

[01:28:46] Zoe: Yeah. Like, I don't think I'm ever like scared to call Christie. I was gonna gonna ask 

[01:28:49] Heather: you that. Were you nervous at first to like introduce Christie into your life and make a call or text or something? 

[01:28:55] Zoe: Probably 

[01:28:55] Heather: not. It 

[01:28:56] Zoe: just like, it was the thing that was told to me to do, like, if I'm feeling [01:29:00] overwhelmed and like.

[01:29:01] Feeling like I wanna use and like, or kill myself then like I call Christie. So I think it was just like a natural reaction. And the fact that she did always pick up was like, okay, I mm-hmm. This is someone that I can reach out to. Mm-hmm. 

[01:29:14] Heather: I, I learned this in rehab and I do this when I have cravings.

[01:29:18] Mm-hmm. I'll just like say it out loud. Mm-hmm. And I kind of do that with everything where I'm like, I'm angry today. Yeah. Or like, that pissed me off. I need to get better at doing that. 

[01:29:24] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:29:25] Heather: But the cravings was a big thing for me. Yeah. And the second I would say it, it would like, I would come down from it.

[01:29:30] Yeah. I just like, guess I needed to nce say it out loud. It Yeah. And it's like, oh, you actually don't wanna drink. You're stressed out. Yeah. About whatever the fuck. Um, it's just such a default. But I, I imagine that. Is similar. Mm-hmm. And then you have someone to call. Mm-hmm. And that's so grounding to be like, when I call Christie, I'm gonna feel okay.

[01:29:48] Like it is. It's like that 

[01:29:50] Zoe: hope, you know? Yeah. I guess it's just, yeah, putting it out there and having someone else like hear it. Mm-hmm. And say that I'm not a crazy person. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:29:58] Heather: Being 

[01:29:59] Christie: seen. 

[01:29:59] Zoe: [01:30:00] Yeah. 

[01:30:00] Christie: Being seen, not judged and just like, 

[01:30:02] Zoe: okay. 

[01:30:03] Heather: Is there something you've learned from having a sponsor, from having Christie that you, I don't know, that like, you feel like you wouldn't have learned without having a sponsor being in the program?

[01:30:16] I feel like 

[01:30:17] Zoe: just everything, like, I feel like every part of my sobriety has been through the program and like when I stopped going to meetings for those six months, like I was so quick to trigger. Mm-hmm. Such like a. Like I was becoming a bad person, which was Were you trying to censor yourself for saying bitch on the podcast?

[01:30:36] I don't think so. Oh, okay. Maybe, but I think I was just, maybe I was gonna say mean person. Did I say mean? No idea. Bad person, bad. Um, but I just like knew that I was going down that rabbit hole of about like, to drink again. And when I had that fight with my friend's boyfriend and Sarnia mm-hmm. Like I did open the liquor cabinet and then going back to meetings and just feeling so [01:31:00] safe and so seen.

[01:31:01] Mm-hmm. I think that I was just like missing that throughout those six months. Yeah. And that's why I, I was like, okay, thank God I'm back and I'm not leaving again. 

[01:31:11] Heather: I know. It really is so important to feel seen. Mm-hmm. And to feel like you're understood. Mm-hmm. And the further you get from that, you're, you lose yourself.

[01:31:19] Mm-hmm. And that's when I go into these depressions, I'm like, I'm not talking to anybody. Mm-hmm. And that's gonna make it. Even worse. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which, that's the only thing I can do, but it's it, and I, I hear that a lot. It's like, then I get back into the meetings. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, that's your home.

[01:31:32] If you find your home and your people go 

[01:31:34] Christie: there, you know? Yeah. Structure and the routine is helpful too, right? Yeah. It's like on Wednesday night, here's where I am. Right. It's like a safe place. People expect me. Yeah. Yeah. I can, yeah. I'm sure 

[01:31:45] Zoe: like the transformations of women, like you've seen probably crazy transformations.

[01:31:51] Like how does that make you feel? 

[01:31:53] Christie: Um, yeah. So my, like, what I believe today is that mm-hmm. Everything in anything is possible, [01:32:00] right? Mm-hmm. I've seen it come true mm-hmm. In my life and so many other people's lives. Yeah. Um, yeah. It's just, I never, I never know. Right. And that's what it's really, it's like, I don't know what people are gonna do, start a podcast Right.

[01:32:14] Chase their dreams. Mm-hmm. Like that. It's so beautiful to have someone come from. A really shy, scared, anxious woman to being like, um, confident. Mm-hmm. And, uh, chasing their dreams mm-hmm. And doing scary things. Mm-hmm. It's, yeah. It's the, there's no better feeling. Even like me 

[01:32:34] Zoe: having a boyfriend, I used to say to people all the time, like, smelt my crazy, like sex page and like Yeah.

[01:32:39] Just like how I never wanted to have a boyfriend. Exactly. And like me telling you that I have a boyfriend I know and know he's moving in forever. Forever. 

[01:32:47] Christie: Yeah. And it's what you want and you're happy with it, right? Yeah. So it's like, and whatever, it's your path. Yeah. And it's like, but just your, your peace of mind and your comfort in your own skin.

[01:32:59] Yeah. [01:33:00] Because you, I don't think you had that before, you know? No, for sure. No. 

[01:33:03] Heather: Yeah. Is there anything, this is a big question, but is there anything that you've learned about yourself in sobriety in general? Like fundamental things about yourself? Is there stuff that you're working on or things that you love about yourself?

[01:33:16] Actually, let's do that. Things that you've learned about yourself in sobriety, something that you're still working on mm-hmm. And something that you have learned you'd love about yourself. 

[01:33:24] Christie: Mm-hmm. Um, uh, so something I learned about myself in sobriety was the first one. Mm-hmm. Um, that I'm, uh, capable, you know, and I, I am loved.

[01:33:35] Right. That's always like, my fear is like, I'm not lovable or loved. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I had to be performative, um, and like put on different faces for different people. Right now, I, I don't, I just me. 

[01:33:48] Zoe: Mm-hmm. Right. 

[01:33:49] Christie: It's like a gift to. Walk into a room and just be me. And it's okay, no matter where I am and not everyone's my person and that's okay.

[01:33:58] Yeah. But I don't have [01:34:00] to change myself. I can just be like, I love you. Mm-hmm. Maybe you're not at my table, but I love you. Mm-hmm. You know, so, yeah. And also that I'm, um, yeah, I have a big capacity for love. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything you're working on? Everything. Everything? Yeah. Like, I would say, so emotional sobriety has been a big focus for me in the past couple years of like, um, you know, uh, not reacting, being really intentional with, um, what I'm thinking, what I'm consuming.

[01:34:35] Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, just everything in my life. Mm-hmm. Um, sorry, can you explain like emotional 

[01:34:40] Heather: sobriety? 

[01:34:41] Christie: Yeah. So what you mean by that? Yeah, just, um. You know, if, if something happens, I don't have to respond. 

[01:34:48] Heather: Okay. Mm-hmm. You 

[01:34:48] Christie: know, it's like I can react sanely and normally of like, you know, something, maybe something makes me really angry, I live with somebody, right?

[01:34:56] Like, but I don't have to respond. I can just be like, [01:35:00] okay, react. Yeah. Don't react. Like, let talk reactive, explosive, sad, mad, angry, like the big extremes, right? Yeah. Um, I can just be like, feel my emotions, but they don't control me. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. That's, that's been a big thing. Yeah. Um, yeah, and not the, like, not being shut off mm-hmm.

[01:35:21] Because that's my, I, I'm icy, right? Mm-hmm. I was shut down and I'm icy, and everyone's like, you're so cool. Mm-hmm. I don't feel anything. Right. So still feeling okay, but not shutting down and not being like, genuinely being like, okay, like this is, this is really hard. I feel very deeply, but I'm not gonna respond.

[01:35:40] I'm just gonna be like, okay, like what's happening here. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What are, what's like the hardest thing that you've had to go through in sobriety? Or like a couple that come to mind? Oh man. Losing my dog that I got sober with. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, definitely, uh, losing, losing people, you know, like lost in [01:36:00] one week I lost two of my ex-boyfriends.

[01:36:03] Um, that was really hard. Mm-hmm. When 

[01:36:06] Zoe: those, like your dog. Yeah. I'm so sorry. But when like, stuff like that happens. Yeah. Do you think about using ever, like, have you ever thought about using in like the last like. 

[01:36:16] Christie: Eight years even. So I dared about four years sober. Mm-hmm. And why? Because I was living with somebody that I was dating someone and I moved in with him.

[01:36:25] I didn't even like him. Mm. Mm-hmm. Because I was like, um, I guess I'm just going through the motions of like, yeah. Like, he likes me. Yeah. And it's good enough, right? Yeah. It's good enough. Um, people, it should be something I want. And I was like in it, and I was like, just, he's a nice guy, Christie. Everyone's like, he's nice, Christie.

[01:36:43] Mm. She's like, I just need to try harder. It's me. Um, and then I was so, I was mean, and I was being mean, and I didn't like him being dishonest. Right. Mm. That's the thing, not living honestly. Mm-hmm. And it was Greek Fest and I'm walking down the street and I was like, that beer looks good. I was like, [01:37:00] oh, this isn't, this isn't good.

[01:37:01] It's a good sign. Yeah. Call your sponsor. Okay. Um, yeah. And like, do, do the work and Yeah, you may can that. I remember in that moment being like, I made a decision, right? No matter what, I'm choosing this thing, even though it's hard. Mm-hmm. Choosing to live, honestly. Mm-hmm. Choosing to live in a loving way.

[01:37:20] Mm-hmm. Um, and that all went along with it. So even though it was hard and uncomfortable, I had to like, go back and be like, yeah, I'm, I'm not a great person. 

[01:37:30] Heather: I'm relating to so much of what you're saying, walking into a room and just being yourself mm-hmm. Is like, I think people think I do that. I don't do that.

[01:37:39] I perform everything. Mm-hmm. And I, maybe not everything as much as I used to, but hearing that, I'm like, yeah. That's where I'd wanna be. Mm-hmm. That's a, that's a nice one. Mm-hmm. Yeah. To just be able to show up as yourself. Like I, I know why I don't. Mm-hmm. Like I know that I don't feel worthy or enough Yeah.

[01:37:55] Or like, I don't know what people want from me. That's when I start, get to get delusional. Yeah. Mm-hmm. [01:38:00] But that is also something I'm working on and it was, it's really nice to hear you say that. 

[01:38:04] Christie: Yeah. 'cause. 

[01:38:05] Heather: It's a big one. Yeah. It's a 

[01:38:07] Christie: lot of work. Right. And it took me being like, what are my fears and how do I try to manage my fears versus like, when I'm just good, right?

[01:38:15] Yeah. Or like the universe manages my fears. They're two different things. 'cause if I, I don't feel loved, then I'm like, okay, I'm gonna look a certain way. I'm gonna sound a certain way. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna like say things I think you wanna hear, perform essentially. Right. And then lose yourself. Yeah.

[01:38:31] And then versus the other side where it's like, no, I'm just Okay. Right? Mm-hmm. It's like, I am enough. Right. Yeah. But it's not, that is not overnight. No, for sure. It doesn't. It's a lot of hard work to get there. 

[01:38:42] Heather: You gotta write a lot of sticky notes on your mirror and say you're, you're enough. 

[01:38:45] Christie: Yeah. No. Like you're, I 

[01:38:46] Heather: do 

[01:38:46] Christie: that 

[01:38:47] Heather: by the way, for affirmations are important.

[01:38:50] They're 

[01:38:51] Christie: be like, I love you. Right. And like meaning it being like, I'm awesome. You know? 

[01:38:56] Heather: I really am. I know sometimes I say that, I'm like, I'm the best one. And then I'm like. [01:39:00] Don't tell anyone you said that. Um, we ha we like to end the pod even though honestly I could sit here for six hours and talk to you.

[01:39:08] Mm-hmm. Even though our cameras would hate that. Yeah. Our cameras are gonna give out any seconds. Any second. Let's wrap it up. I we do like to ask an advice question at the end, and I think a good one is about the meetings. Mm-hmm. So people who, there are people who are against it. Yeah. Who've never been there.

[01:39:24] Yeah. Who are afraid of it. Yeah. I honestly, I, I didn't go, I didn't end up continuing to go 'cause I was nervous. Yeah. You know, that's showing up, like whatever. Yeah. So, do you have any advice for people who are nervous to go? 

[01:39:38] Christie: Mm-hmm. It's normal. Okay. Everyone's nervous. Yeah. That's, it's not, you're not alone in that.

[01:39:43] Mm-hmm. Um, and the thing is, is that. People really want you to be there. Mm-hmm. Right. And that's how I made some of my best friendships by being like, I'm anxious. Mm-hmm. And people being like, oh, me too. I'm like, you are. Yeah. But like, being able to say that, like you said, take the power out of [01:40:00] it, acknowledging, Hey, I'm anxious to somebody else.

[01:40:02] Mm-hmm. Um, and just trying, you know, going to different, if you don't, if we go to one spot and you're like, this isn't it, just keep going and maybe you'll find something. Maybe that's part of your path. Mm-hmm. But genuinely, like everyone does, like, want you to be there and wanna help you. Mm-hmm. So you think it takes like 

[01:40:19] Heather: two or three, and then you start feeling comfy 

[01:40:20] Christie: in there.

[01:40:21] It depends. Mm-hmm. Like, it, it's not an, it's hard, it's vulnerable. Mm-hmm. You're newly sober. The first 30 days feels like 30 years. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You're ev you're just uncomfortable in general. So it's, it, it's hard, but you do it together. Yeah. You know, it's all, that's the. Like the beautiful thing is like, everyone understands Yeah.

[01:40:41] If I was alone, I could never get sober. Like, you 

[01:40:43] Zoe: do need fuck the support of, and the fact that you're not alone in it is 

[01:40:48] Christie: the magic of it all. Exactly. To be honest. Yeah. And you can help people if you have 30 days, they're gonna relate more to you. With my tenures, you know, they'll be like 10 years. That's fake.

[01:40:59] [01:41:00] Yeah. Yeah. 30 days. This girl's lying. I can do 30 days. Right. Yeah. So it's like you can Yeah. Actually like help people too, so. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Great. And getting your chip. 

[01:41:09] Heather: Yeah. A big bowl of chips. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, Ooh. Was just gonna say, oh, I think, um, no, I think that's great. I think a lot of people don't even know.

[01:41:20] What it would be like to have a whole room of people see you and care about you. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like 

[01:41:26] Christie: a lot of people have never had that. Exactly. Yeah. I cried my first like few meetings. Mm-hmm. Because I walked in and people were nice. Yeah. And they also put into words things that I thought only I'd felt.

[01:41:36] Mm-hmm. So I was like, and I didn't wanna disappoint them by saying how I really felt, but it wasn't until I did that that I could actually start to get Well. Yeah. You know? So yeah, we'd, we'd like, people do genuinely are like, we get it. You don't have to do this alone. So, yeah. Yeah. 

[01:41:53] Heather: Well, thank you so much for coming and sharing your story and Oh, I'm gonna cry and, oh no.[01:42:00] 

[01:42:01] Like, I know, I don't know how you feel about what you've done for Zoe saved her life, but I, I. I am so grateful for Zoe. Like, I'm so grateful for you. And I'm like, I don't, all those stories I hear from how you were before. Mm-hmm. I'm like a, you're insane. But also like, thank fucking God you didn't die.

[01:42:21] Yeah. And like knowing that like this is a relationship that like keeps my best friend alive is like so fucking important. And I'm really grateful for you and what you do for everybody, and I'm really fucking proud of you. Yeah. Because your life is also nuts. Yeah. And you, you got outta that somehow. I don't know.

[01:42:39] You 

[01:42:39] Christie: can't even tell. No. Can't even touch. Can't even tell. I so cute and so strong and people apologize for swearing in front of me now. I'm like, mm, thank you. 

[01:42:49] Zoe: You're like, yeah, I used to do hard drugs on the street. Yeah. I look good. Well, 

[01:42:54] Heather: I'm very proud of you. Thank you, Zoe. I'm proud of you. 

[01:42:58] Zoe: I'm proud of 

[01:42:58] Heather: both of you.

[01:42:59] Dope you. [01:43:00] I'm proud of you. Proud of 

[01:43:01] Zoe: you. Love you. Proud of you guys. Proud of you guys. Bye. Bye. Bye. Oh.

—

Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok @girlundrunkpodcast or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com. 

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