#45: Addiction Doesn’t Go Anywhere

This week on Girl, Undrunk, Heather and Zoe talk honestly about addiction, sobriety, and recovery — and why changing locations, relationships, or routines doesn’t make substance use disappear. The episode covers California sober, sobriety while dating, therapy check-ins, travel fantasies as escape, shame around past drinking behaviors, and the difference between counting days sober and actually building a sober life. A candid conversation about boundaries, community, and learning how to stay sober for yourself, no matter where you are or who you’re with.

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Addiction Doesn’t Go Anywhere: Trancript

Addiction Doesn’t Go Anywhere

[00:00:00] Heather: This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening.

Hi everyone. Welcome back to Girl and Drunk. I'm Heather. 

[00:00:30] Zoe: I'm Zoe. 

[00:00:31] Heather: And today, oh, 

[00:00:33] Zoe: Nike's back. Nike's back guys. 

[00:00:34] Heather: Nike's back. All is okay with the world he was at. My dad's having a great time. Was he not here last recording? 

[00:00:40] Zoe: He hasn't, hasn't been here. I haven't seen him in like a month. 

[00:00:43] Heather: Oh my God. 

[00:00:44] Zoe: I haven't seen you probably since 2025.

[00:00:46] Heather: Do you remember how to behave on the pod? 

[00:00:49] Zoe: Yeah. I'm gonna give him lots of cuddles and he's gonna be great. Oh, just squeaks the bear as we say that you, you can 

[00:00:56] Heather: have that bear as long as you don't squeak his tummy. 

[00:00:58] Zoe: Just his, [00:01:00] he is. 

[00:01:01] Heather: Oh. What's going on this morning? How are you? 

[00:01:03] Zoe: What? 

[00:01:03] Heather: Did you work out this morning?

[00:01:04] Zoe: No, I worked out for the past three days and I said, no, no, no, 

[00:01:09] Heather: no. That's, 

[00:01:09] Zoe: I cannot work out today. Um, but yeah, I, uh, I don't think I'm ever gonna work out on a Friday. Friday is just for this. 

[00:01:16] Heather: I love that boundary for 

[00:01:17] Zoe: you. Yeah. 

[00:01:18] Heather: I need to work out more. I need to do Pilates more. You know what I really need to do?

I like going to Pilates before boxing. 

[00:01:25] Zoe: Oh really? 

[00:01:26] Heather: It's so early in the morning. Yeah. And when it's dark outside, I'm like, ugh. 

[00:01:30] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:01:30] Heather: I would like to do it. 'cause it helps my game. It helps my boxing game. 

[00:01:34] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:01:34] Heather: Helps my day. 

[00:01:36] Zoe: Yeah it does. I told um, 'cause I go to Pilates every Thursday and my package is now out and like it is very expensive.

[00:01:44] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:01:44] Zoe: So I told I only go to the same girl every. Time. Katie. K. She's the best friend. She works at Lagree Plus and Sweat and Tonic. 

[00:01:54] Heather: Mm. 

[00:01:54] Zoe: Did you see the drama that's happening with Sweat and Tonic, by the way? 

[00:01:57] Heather: No. Tell me right 

[00:01:58] Zoe: now. Oh my God. So there's this girl on [00:02:00] TikTok who like made a thing and she's like, I was so excited to try Sweat and Tonic.

It was for my birthday. We were gonna go to do a class and go to dinner after. And she's from like out of the city. She's from like the GTA and she drove in 

[00:02:12] Heather: Uhhuh. 

[00:02:13] Zoe: She gets there like two minutes before the class starts. They don't show her where the class is. So she ends up being two minutes late to the class and then they don't let her in.

Which yeah, you have to be on time. It's a fucking class babe. 

[00:02:28] Heather: Yeah, 

[00:02:28] Zoe: you gotta get there more than two minutes before it fucking starts. 

[00:02:31] Heather: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:31] Zoe: Like everyone's, I think most of TikTok is on the side of sweat and tonic. Like Yeah. You don't show up late to the class. But there is some people who are like, why didn't they let you in?

It's only two minutes. But it does disturb the whole class when I am in there. 'cause I always get there early. 'cause I am a sober, fabulous woman. 

[00:02:50] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:02:50] Zoe: I'm like in there doing my stretches, like meditating before everything starts. And then if a girl just runs in frantically two minutes after the starts, the class [00:03:00] starts.

You're knocking off everyone else's like class. 

[00:03:03] Heather: Yeah. You're ruining the vibe for sure. 

[00:03:04] Zoe: You're ruining the vibe. So, 

[00:03:06] Heather: yeah. 

[00:03:06] Zoe: Yeah. Don't let them in. Sweat and tonic. Please stick to your rules. 

[00:03:10] Heather: I agree. 

[00:03:11] Zoe: We love a rule. I love a boundary. 

[00:03:13] Heather: Yeah. And you know what, people need rules. Yeah. And like people can say like whatever they want, that's annoying.

You paid for the class, they should let you in, blah blah, blah. But I think that like. Some people, this is why I always say like, everyone needs to put their children in dance class. Yeah. Or some sort of like thing where you're learning, um, proprioception and like other people in space. Yeah. And like how to care about people and like just being social in a, in a athletic sense.

[00:03:41] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:03:41] Heather: That you can't just show up late. It's like half of like working out, half of the whole like vibe and lifestyle of working out is showing up on time. Yes. And showing up for yourself. So why. You being late and then blaming someone else as a former blame? Everybody except myself. 

[00:03:58] Zoe: Totally. 

[00:03:59] Heather: You have to show up [00:04:00] on time.

Were you a late person before? 

[00:04:02] Zoe: Honestly, not really. Yeah. I was talking to Madison about this. I do everything so fast, like I can get ready so fast. Yeah. I shower. I like, I'm doing like one of these so fast. I don't know why I, I don't just like take my time ever. Yeah. My boyfriend, since he's living with me, he takes his time.

He's doing everything so slow. I'm like, can we hurry it up? 

[00:04:22] Heather: Please? Yeah. Honestly, 

[00:04:24] Zoe: but I think I do that because I had to rush to get ready or else I was gonna be late. Yeah. Because I was like, hung over, woke up late and always in a rush to get to work or to school or whatever. I'm 

[00:04:36] Heather: drinking, I'm busy. 

[00:04:37] Zoe: Yeah.

So I think that has instilled on me still to this day. Rushing because I think I'm gonna be late. 

[00:04:43] Heather: Yeah. I do. I have like calmed down about people's tardiness. Mm-hmm. Because you have to, when you're sober, pick your battles a little more. Mm-hmm. But I don't really have friends anymore that are chronically late.

[00:04:57] Zoe: I do. 

[00:04:58] Heather: Yeah. I, I don't, but [00:05:00] I also like don't have those as many friends as you. Yeah. And like I've, I've, a lot of my friends have changed, but I just won't do that. Like 

[00:05:08] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:05:08] Heather: I won't go. Like, I remember going to the movies as a kid and like being late, like, I hate going to the movies now and showing up on time and it's like, oh, it's the credits.

I'm like, the credits are faster than you think they are. Yeah. Like the previews like show up on time. I don't understand. I don't really get it. 'cause people are late. Mm-hmm People are late people. And I've heard chronically late people get on TikTok and talk about the empathy Yeah. For late people. And I'm like.

I, you would need to have such a serious excuse and maybe you guys can tell us like what the vibe is. If you're late, you're wrong. But 

[00:05:41] Zoe: yeah, no, you need to be on time. 

[00:05:43] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:05:44] Zoe: I used to be really annoyed with this one friend who always was late. 

[00:05:47] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:05:48] Zoe: I feel like last year I was really getting upset about it and like it was causing me like anxiety when I was going to meet up with her because I'd be like, Ugh.

Like I know she's gonna be late. This is gonna be, 

[00:05:58] Heather: mm-hmm. 

[00:05:58] Zoe: Such like a waste of my time, whatever. [00:06:00] But I don't know why now this year, like recently when I go and meet up with her, it's not that anxiety driven anymore. I think I'm more just like, I guess I've accepted that she's gonna be late. And Is 

[00:06:12] Heather: she still late?

[00:06:13] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:06:13] Heather: Oh, 

[00:06:13] Zoe: okay. And I just maybe am, I show up 10, 15 minutes late because I know she's gonna be like 45 minutes late, you know, 

[00:06:22] Heather: 45 minutes late. 

[00:06:23] Zoe: She's been 45 minutes late before. 

[00:06:24] Heather: No, no, no, no, no. That's not even, no. You see, you know what that is. And I think like. I wanna know what that perspective is because as like as a person who's in therapy, I'm like, okay, that bothers me because it feels like you don't respect me in my time.

Yes, 

[00:06:39] Zoe: yes. 

[00:06:39] Heather: And it's like, if you wanna hang out with me, hang out with me. At the time we said like, what could you possibly be doing? Or like, not have the audacity to text me and be like, 45 minutes, let's push it. 

[00:06:48] Zoe: Well, she, she does usually keep me in the loop and I can track her now, which I think makes it easier for me to leave.

You do track this. I think maybe last year I didn't have her location, but I think I, she's just [00:07:00] someone that time is not, she doesn't know how to manage time. 

[00:07:05] Heather: Uh, yeah. 

[00:07:05] Zoe: Some people are genuinely just like that. But yeah, that's just like the TikTok drama of Sweat and Tonic right now. That girl who is complaining about sweat and tonic, she definitely is just like wanting free classes because like, this is now like a huge TikTok drama, at least in Toronto.

Damn. So, I don't know. 

[00:07:23] Heather: I love that. 

[00:07:24] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:07:24] Heather: That is so like. Because I think even late people 

[00:07:28] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:07:28] Heather: In the city would be like, yeah, well you're late. Yeah. Like, you didn't show. That's what happens when you're late. And, and I don't, I I, I get it. The immediate thought when you're, when you get a consequence for being late is like, it's not my fault, it's the city.

There's traffic. How could we possibly, but buh I 

[00:07:43] Zoe: would never, never, never be like, you guys suck. Like, why didn't you let me in? I would be like, oh, I immediately, I know I'm in the wrong. 

[00:07:51] Heather: I, yeah. 

[00:07:52] Zoe: Is that because you've been in the wrong so much? I guess like we've had so many consequences and we've had to like reflect on our own actions so much that we [00:08:00] know that we can't blame anyone else now.

[00:08:02] Heather: Well, yeah. I think the blame game Yeah. Really comes from sobriety. Like not I think so not blaming anyone but ourselves. We have to do that. 

[00:08:09] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:08:09] Heather: Or you never get to the root of the problem and then you're like, I can drink. He's an asshole. Yeah. Right. 

[00:08:13] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:08:13] Heather: But. I, I just think that we have empathy. 

[00:08:17] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:08:18] Heather: And we've been in like, high level sports.

Yeah. So we know you can't. I mean, I've been to, I mean, I've gone to conventions, dance conventions, and shown up late and not gone in. 

[00:08:29] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:08:29] Heather: And been like, that's so disrespectful. I've shown up to yoga classes that I've paid for in like a different city and I'm late and I'm like, I'm not even gonna put these people out.

[00:08:39] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:08:39] Heather: Like I'm late. You 

[00:08:40] Zoe: take the penalty and you leave. 

[00:08:41] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:08:42] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:08:42] Heather: It's a bummer. But $30 down the drain bed. 

[00:08:45] Zoe: Yeah. Anyways, how's your mental, 

[00:08:47] Heather: oh my God. 

[00:08:47] Zoe: Oh my God. How's your 

[00:08:49] Heather: mental, my mental's? 

[00:08:50] Zoe: How well? Yeah. Oh good. 

[00:08:52] Heather: I'm good actually. Hmm. I had therapy yesterday. I really liked that. That was good [00:09:00] therapy.

Mm-hmm. Talked about a lot of things. Um, was there anything in my mental that I wanted to talk about? 

[00:09:06] Zoe: Are you sorting through anything in therapy right now? Or is it more just like stuff that comes up on the daily? Oh, 

[00:09:10] Heather: Zoey, that's literally what I wanted to fucking talk 

[00:09:12] Zoe: about. Oh my God, I knew it. 

[00:09:14] Heather: What's happening?

I was gonna say that there, at the end of my therapy session, there was like 15, 10 minutes left and she was like, honestly, we were just gabbing. Like I was just telling her about my trip and about the pod and about our, the guest we just had. And 

[00:09:29] Zoe: yeah. 

[00:09:29] Heather: And you know, my blame friend, but 10 minutes, 15 minutes left, she was like, is there anything that needs like attention?

Is there anything you need to work through? And I was like, oh, I don't think so right now, today, like my brain is not focused on anything other than like, things are positive. I'm feeling good. 

[00:09:47] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:09:47] Heather: And the reason I wanted to say that is because. People ask me about therapy sometimes. Mm-hmm. Like what do you talk about?

Like people don't go to therapy just the same as AA too. And it's like sometimes, [00:10:00] okay. Like I've had people come to me and be like, oh, okay, well I could have used therapy maybe like 

[00:10:05] Zoe: then, but 

[00:10:06] Heather: now like there's nothing really I would talk about. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, right. There's always something to talk about.

Yeah. And if you're like, oh, well I needed therapy last month, but not now. You still need therapy. Yeah. And I think it's okay. I think the feeling of going to therapy when you're like, I don't have enough to talk about. You're not enough for therapy. Mm-hmm. You're not enough to work on yourself. 

[00:10:29] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:10:30] Heather: It's just not true.

Like therapy is so important. Even if you go in and all you have is good news or all you have is like, I didn't do anything this week. Honestly, sometimes those are the best. Sessions because there's so much space in my brain to dive into one specific thing. Yeah. Or you just sit there for $140 an hour and you have a nice conversation and you reflect on the good things you're happy about.

Yeah. Or sad about or whatever. But yeah, I love those sessions because it is just like a check mark. Every week that I've [00:11:00] seen her, I've talked about my shit, and then I don't need to miss a session. If I miss a session, I'm like, oh, there's been two weeks. What's happened? 

[00:11:07] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:07] Heather: I'd rather have nothing happened.

See her. 

[00:11:10] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:11:10] Heather: And then go another week, you know? 

[00:11:11] Zoe: For sure. Have you been journaling still? 

[00:11:14] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:11:14] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:11:15] Heather: I've been doing, so I journaled so much in Mexico. 

[00:11:18] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:11:18] Heather: I just love it. 

[00:11:19] Zoe: And you're keeping it up 

[00:11:20] Heather: outta 

[00:11:20] Zoe: your back. Yeah. Good. I 

[00:11:21] Heather: just really like it. It's so nice. I like it better than reading. 

[00:11:26] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:11:26] Heather: I really fall into it.

It's nice. 

[00:11:28] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:11:28] Heather: That's, it's good you journaling. 

[00:11:29] Zoe: No, 

[00:11:30] Heather: no, 

[00:11:31] Zoe: I 

[00:11:31] Heather: don't. When you're running and you're moving in with your boyfriend, there's other things going on. 

[00:11:34] Zoe: Yeah. What would you give yourself? 

[00:11:37] Heather: I feel like I'm at like a solid, like 6, 7, 6, 7. Oh God. 

[00:11:42] Zoe: 6, 7, 6 

[00:11:43] Heather: 0.5. I feel like, yeah, I feel like I'm at a good like seven.

I think. Like I feel good. I feel like I'm like forgetting something, but that's just how I live my life. 

[00:11:52] Zoe: I think I feel good. No, I was talking to you earlier, like it seems like you have been more calm lately. 

[00:11:59] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:11:59] Zoe: Like [00:12:00] we've been able to like sit in silence more and just like hang out. Usually she's, 

[00:12:06] Heather: no, I have so much energy on it.

[00:12:08] Zoe: So much energy. But I feel like you have been more calm this week. Mm-hmm. Which is like a good sign. Like I think it is. 

[00:12:15] Heather: Well, two weeks in a row. Is it two weeks in a row? We had like very 

[00:12:18] Zoe: really good guests. 

[00:12:19] Heather: Really good guests. Yeah. Really calming energy. 

[00:12:21] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:12:22] Heather: I could never, I could never be Christie. 

[00:12:25] Zoe: Yeah.

[00:12:25] Heather: So sweet. I just like, so 

[00:12:26] Zoe: sweet. 

[00:12:27] Heather: She's so cute with that. If you get Christie's episode, go watch it. She go watch it, but she, um, when she's just like, yeah, 

[00:12:32] Zoe: and I like lived on the street. Mm-hmm. And 

[00:12:34] Heather: like, you 

[00:12:34] Zoe: know, did this, 

[00:12:35] Heather: I'm like. How? 

[00:12:36] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:12:37] Heather: You're like the cutest little thing. Yeah. How is this happening? 

[00:12:40] Zoe: I know, 

[00:12:41] Heather: but 

[00:12:41] Zoe: what a sweetheart.

[00:12:42] Heather: How is your mental 

[00:12:44] Zoe: I'm like honestly really good as well. Like, 

[00:12:46] Heather: oh my, 

[00:12:47] Zoe: I was thinking about it last night. I was like, how is my mental health? What am I gonna say? But honestly, like everything is good. I have no complaints. Like getting into the swing of a [00:13:00] routine with my boyfriend, living with me has been like really fun.

There's lots of like controversy of like, oh, your boyfriend, your boyfriend should go to sleep with you every single night. Like he should. If you guys don't go to sleep together at the same time, that's gonna like ruin the relationship. Whatever. 

[00:13:18] Heather: Oh my God. 

[00:13:19] Zoe: Like, I honestly, like three times out of the week, you can stay up Babe.

Uhhuh, I'm going to bed early. 

[00:13:26] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:13:27] Zoe: Meet me in bed. 

[00:13:28] Heather: Yeah. But we all have different, like REM cycles, we all have different, like sleep. You can't, I've pushed my nighttime later and later because I'm like in a relationship. And also like, since I've been friends with you, it's like I have pushed it a little bit.

[00:13:40] Zoe: Yeah. Because like, you have a life. 

[00:13:42] Heather: I have a life, but I also like can't sustain an 11:00 PM PM bedtime. Yeah. Like I have to be in bed on average, always 9:00 PM 

[00:13:51] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:13:51] Heather: But I think that that is like, it's like the second we do anything with our lives. 

[00:13:57] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:13:57] Heather: TikTok is like, here's what's gonna fuck it [00:14:00] up. I 

[00:14:00] Zoe: know.

Like, no. Like I feel like if I, me and my boyfriend do not go to bed at the same time every night and like, we're gonna be okay guys. 

[00:14:07] Heather: Like, well my boyfriend's best friend asked him like, so Heather said that you guys have sleepovers like once or twice a week. Like, is that. Gonna be more or like 

[00:14:17] Zoe: mm-hmm. 

[00:14:17] Heather: And I was like, fuck that question.

Yeah. I'm like, who gives a shit? I'm like, I have, 

[00:14:21] Zoe: we're figuring it out 

[00:14:22] Heather: also. Like, wait, I have a house that I pay for that I sleep here. Yeah. And I love my room. 

[00:14:27] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:14:27] Heather: He has a house that he pays for and loves it and love. Like why do we have, we like each other? Why do we have to then like be up each other's assholes all the time?

Like, it's okay. Yeah. 

[00:14:38] Zoe: It's okay. Like we have separate fucking lives. I am. 

[00:14:41] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:14:42] Zoe: I wake up early and I like to do my workout early. He likes to do his workout like later in the day, which is totally fine. So, 

[00:14:49] Heather: yeah. 

[00:14:49] Zoe: I don't know. I think we are settling into our like routines Yeah. Of like the house and it's been really nice.

Um, 

[00:14:57] Heather: well, I think codependency is like. A [00:15:00] real issue. Sometimes some 

[00:15:02] Zoe: PE a lot of people are codependent has fucked. 

[00:15:05] Heather: Some people thrive in that. 

[00:15:06] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:15:06] Heather: But I think other times, codependency is not actually co, it's like women defaulting to what the man wants to make him happy where people pleasers. 

[00:15:16] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:15:16] Heather: So I think that codependency does get a bit dangerous.

Like you should never bail on your friends to hang out with your boyfriend. You should never bail on a trip 'cause your boyfriend can't go. Yeah. You should like, you should be able to. Same with sobriety. Yeah. You should be able to do all the same things you were doing when you were single except maybe like fucking around.

[00:15:33] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:15:34] Heather: In a relationship, like that's 

[00:15:35] Zoe: like we're planning a trip to Costa Rica without our boyfriends and it's gonna be the best time ever. 

[00:15:40] Heather: We might never come back. 

[00:15:42] Zoe: Yep. 

[00:15:43] Heather: We were talking about toxic boyfriends last week. I remember that feeling of like, anything I do, he has to be involved. Anything that he does, I have to be there.

Or it's like a measure of our relationship. 

[00:15:55] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:15:55] Heather: Oh my God. 

[00:15:56] Zoe: It's really not supposed to be like that, in my opinion. [00:16:00] And I think to, I wanna stay my own person and I do not wanna morph into his. 

[00:16:07] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:16:07] Zoe: Like, I don't wanna morph, I, I need to stay myself. Yeah. And I think it's, I don't know, it's just interesting that so many people have like opinions on how you should like live with your boyfriend and stuff.

It's interesting, 

[00:16:21] Heather: I think when things are like, not. Fun anymore. 

[00:16:25] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:25] Heather: There has to be a reason. Mm-hmm. Right. It can't be Oh, just the relationship isn't going well anymore. We've grown apart. Yeah. It's my fault. It can't be that. It has to be because we're not gonna sleep at the same time. Yeah. It has to be.

Yeah. There's to 

[00:16:36] Zoe: blame it. Yeah. 

[00:16:36] Heather: Yeah. We don't do hobbies together. We don't cook together. Like it has to be something other than We've been cooking 

[00:16:41] Zoe: a lot together. 

[00:16:42] Heather: Have you been, have you made anything? That's horrible. 

[00:16:45] Zoe: No. Not yet. 

[00:16:46] Heather: There you go. 

[00:16:46] Zoe: Honestly, not yet. 

[00:16:47] Heather: Hmm. 

[00:16:48] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:16:48] Heather: This is very good. 

[00:16:49] Zoe: It's exciting. I like it.

[00:16:50] Heather: Good. 

[00:16:51] Zoe: Um, I'd give myself, I think I've been saying an eight, like every week. Mm-hmm. For the past two weeks now. I might even move it [00:17:00] up to an 8.5. 

[00:17:01] Heather: Oh my God. 

[00:17:01] Zoe: Because I'm just like, I, people are keep asking me like, how is it, how is it living with the boy? And I'm like, it's good. It's easy. Like it doesn't seem like it is anything.

Yeah. You know, it just seems like the right. Just seems easy and the 

right 

[00:17:17] Zoe: move, the right thing that's supposed to be happening. 

[00:17:19] Heather: Yeah. Tana Tana. 

[00:17:22] Zoe: Okay. Yeah. Tana Mojo. 

[00:17:24] Heather: Tana Mojo 

[00:17:25] Zoe: made a YouTube video. Yeah. About being one year sober. One year sober. She called it 

[00:17:32] Heather: her testimony. 

[00:17:33] Zoe: Testimony, yeah. 

[00:17:34] Heather: Which I love. Yeah.

I love that. Just because of, 'cause we weren't sure what that was. Yeah. And then I love, um, listening to her story 

[00:17:42] Zoe: mm-hmm. 

[00:17:43] Heather: About, you know, her family suing her mm-hmm. And then having to get testimony from people and then like, it, it does feel like that when these YouTubers come online and they make big statements.

Like it is your testimony. 

[00:17:54] Zoe: It is like the bible a little bit admitting everything. 

[00:17:58] Heather: Yeah. You 

[00:17:58] Zoe: know, she really did like, [00:18:00] admit everything. 

[00:18:01] Heather: She was halfway through that. I was like, oh my God, you're being so honest. Like this is an insane thing for you to do. And she's so like confident in it. And I guess that comes from just being.

Her. 

[00:18:13] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:18:13] Heather: And like she's been doing this since she was like 15 years old. 

[00:18:16] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:18:17] Heather: But damn, she's been through a lot. 

[00:18:20] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:18:20] Heather: And I love the way she talked about how hard it was to quit alcohol. 

[00:18:25] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:26] Heather: How many times she tried to quit, how horrible it was, and then doing things like, um, I'm gonna go to Hawaii, I'm gonna be sober.

I drank on the plane. 

[00:18:37] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:18:37] Heather: I love that. 

[00:18:38] Zoe: It's, um, like the changing, people think like, oh, like I'm bad in Sarnia. Yeah. Like I said, I was, I'm an alcoholic just 'cause I'm in Sarnia. Yeah. My drinking started in sar, my drinking started in Sarnia. I need to go back to the city and everything's gonna be okay. And it like wasn't, people think like a change of destination is gonna like, make them better and cure them of their alcoholism.

And it, it [00:19:00] doesn't do that. 

[00:19:01] Heather: It would be, it would be so nice. 

[00:19:02] Zoe: It would be so nice. 

[00:19:03] Heather: It's such a good idea because I think that we do that a lot in sobriety or in addiction. 

[00:19:07] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:08] Heather: I did a lot fantasizing about what I could be, who I could be. 

[00:19:12] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:12] Heather: And then the next day I wake up and I'm not that. So what the fuck is the point?

Yeah. You know, 

[00:19:19] Zoe: um, maybe, maybe when we go to Costa Rica, maybe we won't be alcoholics there. Maybe we can drink like normal people there. 

[00:19:27] Heather: Are we also single in Costa Rica? 

[00:19:29] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:19:29] Heather: Oh, okay. So you get on a plane, you land. Everything is different. 

[00:19:32] Zoe: Everything's different. 

[00:19:33] Heather: Okay. You know what? We're gonna get fucked up and we'll let you know what happens.

I think it'll be fine. I think 

[00:19:38] Zoe: it'll be fine. 

[00:19:39] Heather: I mean, when we were drinking, we weren't that bad 

[00:19:41] Zoe: and we didn't know each other when we were drinking. 

[00:19:43] Heather: Didn't know each other when we were drinking. We get about the friends you have around you a friend. Yeah, for sure. You know what, we'll get a bottom floor so there's no balcony for you to jump off on.

[00:19:50] Zoe: Perfect. 

[00:19:51] Heather: There we go. Cured. No, it is. Um, I did like that she said that, and I like that she's a woman going through it. I'm just really fucking [00:20:00] proud of her. You guys should go watch her. 

[00:20:01] Zoe: Yeah, it was really good. She speaks like very candidly, like how we speak about 

[00:20:06] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:20:07] Zoe: Our stories. 

[00:20:08] Heather: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:08] Zoe: Um, and I just love when people can do that because.

We're doing this so that other people Yeah. Can talk about their sobriety as well. And she got so emotional when she was so excited to share her story. I know. Because she like wants to help people Exactly. Like how we want to help people. So it was just really cool to see another woman doing. 

[00:20:29] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:20:29] Zoe: Kind of what we're doing.

[00:20:30] Heather: She said something about rehab, so she didn't go to rehab. 

[00:20:32] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:20:33] Heather: And she talks about it in this testimony. She says like, rehab scares me. Yeah. I never wanted to be one of those people who went to rehab. Yeah. Like, and it is so funny that we all have that. It's like we're. We're doing the bad thing. Yeah. The bad thing.

We're doing the detrimental thing, which is drinking too much or doing drugs, being addicted to something ruining our lives. That's the bad thing. 

[00:20:54] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:20:54] Heather: Rehab is not the big bad. We are the big bad. 

[00:20:57] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:20:57] Heather: So like the, the fear of [00:21:00] rehab, I get it. It's like, yeah, what's this gonna be? 

[00:21:02] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:21:03] Heather: But the people in there, are they in the exact same situation that you're in?

[00:21:06] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:21:06] Heather: So it's not like any, you're going to, you know, a nightclub and everyone looks gorgeous and you're a dumb alcoholic. Yeah. Like, everyone's fucked up. 

[00:21:14] Zoe: Everyone. Everyone's, yeah. 

[00:21:15] Heather: So I just, I, I like that she said that. I, and she also said like, rehab would've been good for me. Yeah. Like passages is where they all go and like Malibu or something.

[00:21:23] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:21:23] Heather: But I, uh, I am surprised that she got sober on her own. 

[00:21:28] Zoe: Well, she talks about her one friend, right? Yeah. That was sober. And she kind of like leaned on her a lot during that 

[00:21:34] Heather: because they were drinking together. 

[00:21:36] Zoe: Yes. 

[00:21:36] Heather: And then yes, her friend got sober and then, oh, that's what I loved. She brought it up twice where she was like, my friend said.

Something about like, you're not healed or your life gets better when you stop counting down and you start counting up. Okay. So it's like she was doing like the 75 hard. 

[00:21:53] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:21:54] Heather: And she's like, okay, day 75, day 74, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I'm relapsing. 

[00:21:58] Zoe: Exactly. Like [00:22:00] that's why I, that's reminds me of when I had to stop drinking for those two weeks after my, I got my DUI else, my parents were gonna kick me out Uhhuh.

Like I was just counting down the days 

[00:22:10] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:22:11] Zoe: Until I could drink again. Yeah. It wasn't like I was not drinking to better myself for two weeks. It was like, I am only living day by day so I can get fucked up again. 

[00:22:21] Heather: Yeah. Literally like just waiting for that. Yeah. That it, it's, it's crazy. And it, the se we've talked about a little bit, the 75, hard, 75 hard is for addicts.

[00:22:31] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:22:31] Heather: Like 75. Hard it, I get it. The people who do it, I'm like, oh great. You're like upping your fitness game. You're like getting abs in 75 days. But I'm like, this is such an all or nothing mentality of the 75 hard, whoever. Started it. 

[00:22:44] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:22:44] Heather: Probably an addict. 

[00:22:45] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:22:46] Heather: Because it's like I ca I have to stop everything I'm doing the entire way I'm living has to change for 75 days.

But then you go right back to it 

[00:22:55] Zoe: and then you go right back and then you kind of like use that as, oh, like I'm not an alcoholic. Yeah. I stopped for [00:23:00] 75 days, which 

[00:23:00] Heather: is 

[00:23:01] Zoe: like, fine, 

[00:23:01] Heather: I'm not an alcoholic, I just live in Sarnia. 

[00:23:03] Zoe: Yeah, 

[00:23:03] Heather: right. Exactly. Like I'm not an alcoholic, I just live in this house that has drugs in it.

[00:23:07] Zoe: Yes. Yeah. Um. Yeah. I guess like she didn't have to go to rehab because she had a community of people around her Yeah. To hold her accountable. And that's really all you need. I don't know if she, did she talk about therapy meetings at all? I don't think she talked about it either. I 

[00:23:24] Heather: don't think she did. But she did say that she had a life coach at some point that was basically just like nothing.

[00:23:28] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:23:29] Heather: Which I'm like, yeah. Interesting. 

[00:23:30] Zoe: Yeah. She had something, 

[00:23:32] Heather: she had something. She has the resources, but it's still incredible that she did it on her own. Yeah. She's Tana Mojo. She's like our, she's like America's party girl. 

[00:23:43] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:23:43] Heather: Like she is, she's like a Paris Hilton. 

[00:23:45] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:23:45] Heather: It's um, 

[00:23:46] Zoe: it was her whole identity.

And she talked about that. Yeah. About like how she could never be sober because it's her whole personality. Yeah. She's the party goal of America. 

[00:23:55] Heather: She said something 'cause she, she moved from Vegas to LA when she was like [00:24:00] 15. 

[00:24:00] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:01] Heather: And I'm like, first of all, the guy, her manager who scooped her up. Fucking gross.

Like he seemed, I don't know the story, it's in her book. I'm gonna read her book. Fuck. Yeah. But I don't know what happened there and like why they ended up like not working together anymore. But I'm like, anyone that's 15 should, no one should be communicating with them. Yeah. They should be communicating with their parents.

Like this isn't appropriate, but it's also like the way she got out of her shit life. 

[00:24:27] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:24:27] Heather: But, um, being 15, 16, 17, and she said like, people wanna keep you happy. They wanna keep you fucked up and they wanna keep you manipulated. 

[00:24:37] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:24:37] Heather: And I guess that's just how she was living her life. Yeah. And it's like at some point nobody cares if you're dying from alcohol.

Yeah. Nobody cares. They just care if they're making money off of you. 

[00:24:47] Zoe: For sure. 

[00:24:48] Heather: And as a young girl, I'm like, no fucking shit. It took you till 27 to realize that. Yeah. I'm surprised that you even realize that now, like you didn't have to. Yeah. 

[00:24:58] Zoe: But no, if Tana [00:25:00] Mojo's not drinking, like who the fuck is even drinking anymore?

You know? Let's talk about that. 

[00:25:04] Heather: I think that about myself. 

[00:25:06] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:25:06] Heather: I am, I've always been this person that, like when I was in high school or elementary school, I was looking around at everyone to see if who the, who wasn't doing homework 

[00:25:17] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:25:17] Heather: Who wasn't, who didn't understand what was going on. Mm-hmm. I felt that way in sobriety where I'm like, why am I the only fucking one who can't do this?

I'm like, my addiction is different. I have no willpower. Mm-hmm. I have no off switch, and I feel very akin to her in that way. 

[00:25:32] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:32] Heather: And I'm like, I say that about myself. If I could get sober, any of you bitches could get sober. Mm-hmm. And she is like that. Yeah. And like, if she can get sober with literally everyone around her wanting her to not get sober.

[00:25:43] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:25:43] Heather: Then you can. 

[00:25:44] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:25:44] Heather: It's incredible. It's amazing. Um, what else about Tana 

[00:25:49] Zoe: the plane. She went on a plane, like her rock bottom. She said that she didn't necessarily have one, but she had like lots of. Little things happened to her and [00:26:00] she just came to the conclusion that, 

[00:26:01] Heather: yeah, 

[00:26:02] Zoe: she's gonna ruin her fucking life.

[00:26:04] Heather: I know. I, uh, she, she was on that plane, she like drank whatever, and then she's like, I was sitting there. With my heart beating like six beats per minute. Mm-hmm. Like, she was like, I felt like I was gonna die. A few of those felt like she was gonna die. Yeah. But the plain thing is so interesting because travel often comes up in sobriety stories.

[00:26:25] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:26:26] Heather: You know, you're going somewhere, you decide I'm not gonna drink anymore. That never happened to me. 

[00:26:30] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:31] Heather: But what did happen to me is similar to Tana, where it's like, and, and I'm sure you felt this too, it's like anytime I was on the mega bus going from Boston to New York or back, or flying back to New York where I was living, I'm like, this is different now.

[00:26:43] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:44] Heather: This is the flight. It's gonna change my whole life. I'm in the, I'm in the clouds. I can picture a version of myself that isn't an alcoholic. 

[00:26:52] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:26:52] Heather: And you really believe it. 

[00:26:53] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:26:54] Heather: And I think sometimes that really clicks for people in those moments. You have enough time on the plane [00:27:00] and you can just kind of, I don't know, come to some sort of sober realization.

[00:27:05] Zoe: Yeah. But. 

[00:27:06] Heather: And I guess that is what happened. 

[00:27:07] Zoe: You're in the air, you're closer to God. 

[00:27:11] Heather: Well, it's perspective too. Yeah. And I think like we are pretty fantastical about those things. Mm-hmm. It's like I don't have to, like, I'm in a gutter. 

[00:27:17] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:18] Heather: But I could be someone with a podcast who like talks to other women about sobriety.

Mm-hmm. It's like, in what fucking world Bitch? Like, no, you can't. 

[00:27:24] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:27:25] Heather: But I'm surprised that her boyfriend is with her. That whole situation makes me a little nervous, to be honest with you, because she's a cash cow. I'm like, I don't know him. So I'm like, yeah, this is a, what did 

[00:27:38] Zoe: she say about him? Sorry.

[00:27:39] Heather: Well, just that like when they met, like she met him in Hawaii and she was like, when I saw him I loved him. And I was like, oh yeah, you're an addict. 

[00:27:45] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:27:46] Heather: That's what we do. Mm-hmm. We, and no hate to her. Yeah. Like I do that too. But then it was just like he saw her at her worst. Mm-hmm. Like she was drinking way too much.

And then like, but she's like, he always saw me who I could be now. 

[00:27:59] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:27:59] Heather: [00:28:00] He didn't like, he, he knew that the drunk version of me wasn't the real me. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah. 

[00:28:06] Zoe: I don't know. I feel like there are some people that come into your lives that like really do like save you and I 

[00:28:11] Heather: guess, yeah, 

[00:28:12] Zoe: I think he seems like a really good person.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I think that's just like exactly what she needed because 

[00:28:21] Heather: yeah, 

[00:28:21] Zoe: she said that she was scared that relationships were gonna end and like maybe she was scared that that relationship was gonna end. Yeah. And maybe like she's like, fuck, I can't this, I can't have another relationship ending because of my alcoholism.

Yeah. So maybe it did open up her eyes to that. 

[00:28:37] Heather: Sometimes you have to like love something bigger than yourself. 

[00:28:40] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:28:40] Heather: Or sometimes you have to. I, I don't know. It's so you're, when you're in your addiction, it's not like the true version of selfish. Yeah. But you are selfish. 'cause you can only live for yourself.

But maybe, yeah. You, you get to a place where you're like, oh 

[00:28:54] Zoe: yeah, 

[00:28:55] Heather: there are things outside of me that I love that I wanna cherish. 

[00:28:58] Zoe: Yeah. And this guy can see it. [00:29:00] I could not imagine though my boyfriend, if my boyfriend knew who I was when I was a drinker, fuck. I would not like that. No, no, no, no. 

[00:29:09] Heather: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, 

[00:29:10] Zoe: no, no, no. Because I'm sure Tana Mojo's guy like has seen her at her lowest. 

[00:29:15] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:29:16] Zoe: Um, and I do not, I'm so happy that. My boyfriend does not know who I was at. My lowest. 

[00:29:23] Heather: Yeah. Yeah. I would've called my boyfriend like a dumb bitch and then like shit on his pillow or something. For sure. A psycho. I 

[00:29:29] Zoe: would've peed all over him.

Not in a cute way. 

[00:29:31] Heather: Not in a cute way. 

[00:29:33] Zoe: No. 

[00:29:33] Heather: And it could be cute, but I, yeah, I am. It is an interesting one. She is very young. The thing I will say, 

[00:29:41] Zoe: she's my age, Tana. 

[00:29:42] Heather: Oh yeah. 

[00:29:42] Zoe: Let's be friends. 

[00:29:44] Heather: Come on The pod. Friend of the pod. 

[00:29:45] Zoe: Friend of the pod. 

[00:29:46] Heather: But what I will say, and not about Tana, but just about in general, the thing that makes me a little nervous is having a boyfriend in recovery.

[00:29:54] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:29:55] Heather: Because if you break up. You [00:30:00] have to stay sober for yourself. 

[00:30:01] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:30:02] Heather: And sometimes people get into relationships and they use that word, they say, oh, he saved my life. Yeah. She saved my life. 

[00:30:07] Zoe: That does scare me. 

[00:30:08] Heather: Right. It scares me. And you can't live for somebody else except yourself. My counselor in rehab said that.

Yeah. He's like, I used to live for my daughter. Yeah. But what if my daughter gets hit by a truck? 

[00:30:18] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:30:18] Heather: Now why am I alive? It's like you do have to live for yourself. 

[00:30:22] Zoe: Yeah. And I hope that you are putting your sobriety first. Yeah. Or not just your boyfriend first. 

[00:30:27] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:30:28] Zoe: Um, she is California sober, so she is still smoking weed.

I don't know how often she smokes weed. Yeah. But I think California sober is not sobriety, in my opinion. 

[00:30:41] Heather: Mm-hmm. Like full sobriety. Yeah. 

[00:30:42] Zoe: Um, I, I think that some people can smoke weed and like, at least she's not getting fucked up every day. Yeah. You know, it's way better than the latter, but I. I just couldn't do it.

So I think that [00:31:00] also scares me. Mm-hmm. But again, it's where she's at now. Who knows, maybe like in a week she'll be full sobriety. Yeah. Um, but my boyfriend even, he smoked weed and did Molly for like the first few months of his sobriety and just like, didn't drink and didn't do coke, but like, 

[00:31:17] Heather: oh, OL 

[00:31:18] Zoe: did Molly once a month and like smoked weed.

[00:31:20] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:31:21] Zoe: Like every other day, you know? 

[00:31:22] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:31:23] Zoe: So it does take sometimes like, okay, I'll give up this and this, but I'll do this and this. And then one day you wake up and you're like, wait, I can't do this and this anymore. I have to do nothing. 

[00:31:32] Heather: Right. When we had Cody Cody's episode link here. 

[00:31:36] Zoe: Mm. 

[00:31:36] Heather: He said that he was like, he stopped smoking meth, but he was still drinking.

Yeah. Or he was still smoking weed or something like that. And it's like, yeah, I get it. It's really hard to stop everything all at the same time. And sometimes it's unfathomable. I mean, mind you, getting sober from anything is unfathomable. Yeah. And then you do it, but. I, it does make me nervous because I, we grew up in the time [00:32:00] where people were like, weed's not addictive.

It's not addictive. It is addictive. It 

[00:32:03] Zoe: is addictive. 

[00:32:04] Heather: I don't know the science behind it, but like I will dissociate and sit in my bed all day and smoke weed. Yeah. And when you do that, you kind of like push your limits and then Yeah. Like you said before, guess you're gonna crumble. 

[00:32:16] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:32:16] Heather: Like California sober does make me nervous too.

[00:32:21] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:32:21] Heather: I don't know anyone who smokes weed, who's been an addict, who smokes weed now, who doesn't smoke weed all day long. I. 

[00:32:28] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:32:28] Heather: You know? Yeah. Anyone I know who smokes weed 

[00:32:30] Zoe: smokes weed all day long. 

[00:32:31] Heather: All day long. Yeah. Same. It's the weirdest thing. Yeah. So I'm like, what are we doing here? 

[00:32:36] Zoe: Yeah. And like, I was gonna compare it to smoking cigarettes, but like, no, I can't because it doesn't alter your brain like that.

[00:32:42] Heather: That's the difference. Yeah. Right. Like smoking cigarettes, what you get like a little head rush, like, okay, I miss a step every day I walk down the stairs. I get a head rush too. 

[00:32:49] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:32:50] Heather: But like smoking weed, you can be a blob and do nothing. Yeah. Like those old commercials where she's just like melted into 

[00:32:58] Zoe: the couch.

Yeah. That gives me anxiety if I, if I [00:33:00] think about that. 

[00:33:01] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:33:01] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:33:01] Heather: It's just, it's not, it's not, it's for me, it's not the end goal. The end goal is to be like fully clear in everything I do. Yeah. And like, not feel sluggish. 

[00:33:12] Zoe: No. 

[00:33:12] Heather: You know, 

[00:33:13] Zoe: I wanna wake up a hundred percent of the time, as Miley Cyrus said, 

[00:33:17] Heather: wake up a hundred percent of the time.

[00:33:18] Zoe: I think. Did I say that right? 

[00:33:20] Heather: I have no idea. I've never heard her say it. 

[00:33:21] Zoe: She said about her sobriety. She just said that I wanna wake up and be a hundred percent like ready to take on the day. Yeah. And she didn't like waking up and not being at a hundred percent. 

[00:33:33] Heather: No, 

[00:33:33] Zoe: because she was always hungover. Yeah.

So she said that she likes waking up 100%. 100% of the 

[00:33:39] Heather: time. Yeah. Mind you, if you're a person who's like conquered your alcohol addiction and that was really hard and you're smoking weed, it's okay. 

[00:33:47] Zoe: It's okay. I'm not saying it's not okay. I am just saying Yeah. That like maybe we've been there. This, this is just what she needs right now.

[00:33:54] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:33:55] Zoe: And California sober is not sobriety, in my opinion. 

[00:33:59] Heather: Yeah. [00:34:00] It's not in my opinion either. I think it's um, I think it's a, what do call it, 

[00:34:06] Zoe: it's like a good step towards sobriety and I think some people really need that step. 

[00:34:11] Heather: Yeah, I think so too. I think it's both ways. It's like a step, it's like an open door to sobriety, but it's also an open door to 

[00:34:16] Zoe: relapse.

[00:34:16] Heather: Exactly. Yeah. So I think. Don't listen to your friends who are telling you that it's fine that they smoke weed. 'cause Yeah. They don't know what the fuck they're talking about. 

[00:34:25] Zoe: May as well just like cut it all. 

[00:34:27] Heather: Yeah, no. Smoke a fucking 

[00:34:29] Zoe: cigarette. 

[00:34:30] Heather: Do a cold plunge. Zoe 

[00:34:31] Zoe: do a cold plunge. 

[00:34:31] Heather: Zoe says that the cure to a addiction is a cold plunge or the cure.

[00:34:35] Zoe: That's always said. 

[00:34:35] Heather: The cure to depression is a cold plunge. 

[00:34:37] Zoe: That's what I've always said. 

[00:34:37] Heather: And she's a doctor. 

[00:34:39] Zoe: I'm Dr. Han motherfucker. 

[00:34:41] Heather: Did you graduate? 

[00:34:42] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:34:43] Heather: Oh, you did? Okay. I wasn't sure if you had a degree or not. 

[00:34:45] Zoe: I did, I do. No. Good 

[00:34:46] Heather: for 

[00:34:46] Zoe: you. I know. 

[00:34:48] Heather: How did 

[00:34:48] Zoe: you learn that? I don't really remember it, but it, I graduated during COVID.

My last semester of university was COVID, which was so weird. So like I didn't like have a graduation [00:35:00] or anything. 

[00:35:00] Heather: Ah. Should we throw Zoe at 

[00:35:04] Zoe: a graduation? No, don't do it. I don't wanna celebrate that. Um, okay. I feel like I, because I was so drunk throughout my university career, I don't deserve to like be a photographer or like take real photos.

Have I ever said that on the pod? 

[00:35:21] Heather: Oh God. Oh my God. These, this is not in the notes. Oh my God. 

[00:35:24] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:35:25] Heather: All right, well let's get into that. 

[00:35:26] Zoe: Yeah. Because I like fucked off all university. Yeah. And like, you know, didn't really pay attention at all and was just like handing in like whatever I could as assignments.

[00:35:37] Heather: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:35:38] Zoe: And so I think, like I loved taking engagement photos of my friends last year and like I would love to like actually get into that, but there is a big part of me that's like, oh, I don't deserve that because I didn't do university photography school. Right. You 

[00:35:54] Heather: know? Yeah. Do you think that you.

Deserve to do this podcast even [00:36:00] though you don't have a degree in it, or journalism or speaking. I 

[00:36:04] Zoe: feel like I feel more deserving of this because I know it so much because it's my life and I've 

[00:36:08] Heather: mm-hmm. 

[00:36:09] Zoe: Conquered this thing of sobriety, so I do feel deserving of this. 

[00:36:12] Heather: Yeah. Yeah. You go to school for it though.

[00:36:14] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:36:14] Heather: There's also so many photographers who've never gone to school. Cool. 

[00:36:19] Zoe: That's also true. 

[00:36:19] Heather: I get that though. I get the like guilt and shame of like paying for something. 

[00:36:23] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:36:23] Heather: And not following through with it. Yeah. And then being like, or not necessarily not following through, but just not doing it in the way you thought, yeah.

You were gonna do it. 

[00:36:30] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:36:31] Heather: And then therefore you can't do it. 

[00:36:33] Zoe: Yeah. I need to get out of that a little bit more. 

[00:36:36] Heather: Well, I think you need to get into that a little more. Yeah. And figure out like what that is. Yeah. Because it's not easy, obviously. There's like something holding you back. Like, you know, I sometimes I refer to myself as an artist and I'm like, well, no you're not.

[00:36:49] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:36:50] Heather: You don't do art anymore. You don't dance, you don't 

[00:36:52] Zoe: choreograph. Yeah, I know. I feel like that too. 

[00:36:53] Heather: Yeah. But I don't. A, I don't think any of that is real. Mm-hmm. I think you can decide what you are. 

[00:36:59] Zoe: [00:37:00] Yeah. 

[00:37:00] Heather: But interesting. 

[00:37:01] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:37:01] Heather: I didn't know this. I didn't know this was coming up, so now I'm like, how am I, how do I respond to this?

But I feel like maybe bring this camera with you around. 

[00:37:10] Zoe: Yeah. I mean, I do like taking film photos. Like when I went on my trips, like, 

[00:37:14] Heather: yeah. Oh my God. So 

[00:37:15] Zoe: nice. I love taking those. And I think just like doing that more, um, is like the start. Do you 

[00:37:22] Heather: love it? 

[00:37:23] Zoe: I do like it a lot. 

[00:37:24] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:37:25] Zoe: And like, I really did like doing those engagement photos of my friends.

Um, 

[00:37:30] Heather: I think also sometimes when I think about school, it's like school is not for us to figure out what career we want. Yeah. Like, school isn't there. Like for us to go at 18 to 21 and then go and do the exact same thing for the rest of our lives. 

[00:37:45] Zoe: I know, but the pressure of society is like that. And I just feel like I ha I do hold onto that a little bit.

Like I, I used to. Drink bottle, like a big bottle of wine at the, at the back [00:38:00] of the class and like stumble down the stairs to go pee. And then like once I left all my shit in a classroom and my professor had it and I had to like wake up the next morning and get it from her. And she was like really concerned for me.

And like, it's just like the shame of all of that in a professional setting of a university. I don't know. I hold a lot of shame towards that still. I don't know how this came up. 

[00:38:24] Heather: How professional is the setting if a lot of the students are just drunk 

[00:38:29] Zoe: A lot is just me. 

[00:38:31] Heather: Yeah. A lot. No, I mean I went to school with drunk people all the time.

Everyone was smoking weed. I know, but 

[00:38:35] Zoe: like I was the one that was taking it to the next level all the time. I 

[00:38:39] Heather: think. 

[00:38:41] Zoe: Know. 

[00:38:42] Heather: I think sometimes with addiction, I do this too. I blame myself for everything and like not dancing and like relationships and I blame myself all the time for my stretch marks and like stuff like that.

But I think like looking back, it's like, okay, you wanted to do [00:39:00] photography, you also were a sick person. 

[00:39:01] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:39:02] Heather: So those two things just didn't line up very well. 

[00:39:04] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:39:07] Heather: But if you still like it, that's kind of like amazing. I think it's like a really beautiful thing. And that's like the part of passions and interests.

Like they come with you. 

[00:39:19] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:39:20] Heather: You know? And like you're not gonna stop loving it just 'cause you didn't do it the way that everyone expected you to do it. You've done nothing the way everyone expected you to do it. Societal pressure is the reason you were such a junkie, you know? Yeah. 

[00:39:33] Zoe: I don't know. I think I.

I'm just gonna keep doing it. But I'm 

[00:39:39] Heather: sorry you feel that 

[00:39:40] Zoe: way. I have a little bit of like shame with that still because I was such a fuck up in school. 

[00:39:47] Heather: Yeah. It feels like fraudulent. 

[00:39:48] Zoe: Yeah, it does. 

[00:39:49] Heather: Of course it does. 

[00:39:50] Zoe: And it feels like I'm not like deserving of like even a degree because I was so fucked up during school.

But there's a lot of people who don't deserve degrees. [00:40:00] There's a lot of people who cheat and lie and steal. 

[00:40:02] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:40:02] Zoe: And fuck it. 

[00:40:03] Heather: Yeah. But if you do have like shame about that, I would, I would journal about it. Yeah. Dig in or just talk about it. 'cause it is like holding onto something like that and that no one else is mad at you about it.

Right. Yeah. Like no one else feels the shame you feel about it. 

[00:40:19] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:40:20] Heather: If you like photography, you've like learned stuff about it already. 

[00:40:23] Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:40:24] Heather: Sure. You fucked off a little bit. Yeah. But like. Everyone fucks off. 

[00:40:29] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:40:29] Heather: You've punished yourself enough. 

[00:40:30] Zoe: Yeah. I, 

[00:40:31] Heather: you know, 

[00:40:31] Zoe: I fucking have, 

[00:40:32] Heather: I said this to my sister the other day.

I'm like, pick a date where you stop feeling bad about this specific thing. 

[00:40:36] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:40:36] Heather: And then fucking move on, because it's useless to feel bad. Yeah. You know, that's how I feel about dance. I'm like, it was, I, I wasted so much time having judging my own feelings about it. Mm-hmm. And then I'm like, oh, well now I'm not doing it.

[00:40:48] Zoe: God, you should get back into dance. 

[00:40:50] Heather: Ah, I know. I wanna take a ballet class, but I'm, 

[00:40:53] Zoe: you really should I know. Oh, imagine the tiktoks that you could make. 

[00:40:58] Heather: Bring my phone to, to ballet. 

[00:40:59] Zoe: Yeah. [00:41:00] Get ready with me for ballet. Oh 

[00:41:01] Heather: God. I know. I almost went to a ballet class last winter. 

[00:41:06] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:06] Heather: I signed up and then there was a snowstorm, so I didn't go.

And I was like, Ooh. That was the universe being like, it's okay. You don't have to go yet. You're not ready, but I do wanna do it. Or 

[00:41:14] Zoe: you'll go to a ballet class. I'll take lots of film photos for us in Costa Rica. 

[00:41:18] Heather: There you go. 

[00:41:19] Zoe: You know? 

[00:41:20] Heather: Would you bring that. 

[00:41:21] Zoe: No, 

[00:41:21] Heather: no. You have like a different camera. 

[00:41:23] Zoe: I just, it's too big.

[00:41:25] Heather: It's, it's 

[00:41:25] Zoe: crazy. It's bulky. I want bulky, my little filmy. 

[00:41:29] Heather: Okay. Do you wanna get into some 

[00:41:31] Zoe: questions? 

[00:41:31] Heather: Some Kes cheese? 

[00:41:32] Zoe: Yeah. I think at the end of every month we're gonna be doing a question episode. 

[00:41:38] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:41:38] Zoe: Just the two of us. 

[00:41:39] Heather: We have, we have, if you follow us on Instagram and TikTok, we have an anonymous girl in Drunk Forum.

So if you have any, like, anything you've been wanting to DM us or talk about, it doesn't have to be, you know, the most profound question. 

[00:41:54] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:41:54] Heather: Um, 

[00:41:55] Zoe: but, or just tell us a funny story. Tell 

[00:41:56] Heather: us a funny story. Something that you've been thinking about. [00:42:00] Maybe something like that. Yeah. Like you wanna do photography but you feel like you can't 

[00:42:03] Zoe: Yeah.

[00:42:04] Heather: Kind of anything. On your mind about sobriety mental health? 

[00:42:08] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:42:08] Heather: Um, just go to our Instagram. The link is in our bio anonymous forum. Go ahead. 

[00:42:13] Zoe: Or if you don't wanna be anonymous and you wanna like, just DM us. Oh my God. Because you're a badass and you're like, this is me, this is what I wanna know. 

[00:42:20] Heather: Oh my God.

[00:42:20] Zoe: Then just DM us. 

[00:42:21] Heather: Also do that too. I have not had a drink in almost a year. I quit drinking because I didn't like who I was when I drank, and I didn't like the people I spent time with while drinking. I quit on my own cold Turkey. I'd like to find, I'd like to find sober community, but I'm not sure I'd be accepted because I didn't have a rock bottom or go to rehab, a program, go to rehab or a program in order to quit.

Am I welcome in a sober community? 

[00:42:46] Zoe: Of course. 

[00:42:47] Heather: Oh my God. I love that fucking question. 

[00:42:50] Zoe: Anyone is welcome. Even if you never drank before in your life. Like 

[00:42:53] Heather: Yeah, 

[00:42:53] Zoe: it's, I mean, I can't relate to you as much, but like, you don't drink. Yeah. So like, I like you, you know? Yeah. 

[00:42:59] Heather: Well you had to [00:43:00] get sober and it is like, for whatever reason.

It matters. Yeah. And what we were just talking about before, going to therapy and not having anything to say. 

[00:43:09] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:43:09] Heather: It's like you don't get to go to therapy when everyone in your family, uh, burned in a fire in front of you. 

[00:43:17] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:17] Heather: Like you are enough to go to therapy. Your sobriety and your reason for sobriety is enough.

[00:43:23] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:43:24] Heather: But I think it is when you go to rehab and you start comparing stories mm-hmm. And you're like, oh, you're worse than me. Am I, do I need to be here? 

[00:43:33] Zoe: That's kind of what I did when I went to rehab. Yeah. But then my counselor was like, no, like you're here because you don't wanna get as bad as these other people.

And that's exactly what I would say to this person. Like, you stopped before it got too bad, which is amazing. Yeah. Thank God. Yeah. You know, thank God you didn't have to end up in jail or whatever, get arrested 

[00:43:54] Heather: or, and a lot of those people won't. Like, Zoe goes to aa and when you're in AA you do get kind of crazy stories.

Like there [00:44:00] is more of a, 

[00:44:01] Zoe: my story is nothing compared to some of the stories that I hear at aa. 

[00:44:04] Heather: Right. You know, and then some people's stories are nothing compared to our stories. Yeah. And like, we sometimes are like, are we sober? Are we like addicts enough to be here? 

[00:44:12] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:44:12] Heather: Yeah. Of course. You 

[00:44:14] Zoe: anyone is.

[00:44:14] Heather: Yeah. And if you are strong enough to get sober, you're a hundred percent strong enough to be in this community. Like, it's so welcoming and necessary. Mm-hmm. And the point of the community is that like everyone's alive. 

[00:44:25] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:44:25] Heather: You know? We all got sober. We, because we had to. And also, I will say people who are like, I don't know if I'm like, problematic enough to be here.

I'm like, okay, well how was your childhood? Tell me like one thing that happened, and I'll tell you exactly why you're fucking traumatized. Yeah. You know? And it can be like, oh, someone didn't pick me up from school one day and now I'm abandoned. Like it's, 

[00:44:44] Zoe: which is totally fine. Yeah. 

[00:44:46] Heather: It can be like tiny. It can be big.

It's just that question. Needs to be irrelevant in your brain. Yeah. Because you absolutely deserve to be here. 

[00:44:58] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:58] Heather: You absolutely deserve to [00:45:00] be sober. You needed to get sober and you know that. 

[00:45:02] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:45:03] Heather: You know, 

[00:45:03] Zoe: and, um, it doesn't matter if you're not in therapy or go to meetings or whatever, like you are doing this on your own.

And sobriety does come from doing it yourself. Yeah. 

[00:45:15] Heather: Yeah. It 

[00:45:15] Zoe: doesn't matter what's helping you. Like you are doing it yourself and that's all that matters and you're sober and that's amazing that you realize that you don't wanna be surrounded by those type of friendships, whatever, 

[00:45:28] Heather: which by the way, is so hard to learn.

[00:45:31] Zoe: Yes. 

[00:45:31] Heather: And the fact that, you know, that is crazy. Yes. Like it took us a long time to be like, oh. 

[00:45:36] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:37] Heather: Okay. So some things in my life have to change. Yeah. Some of the people in my life have to change or this isn't good for me. 

[00:45:41] Zoe: And I think it's still happening for me. Like, I like the. Still when even when I got sober, my first year of sobriety, I was like, none of my friends can change.

I need to keep all of my friends, everyone is still amazing. And like now I'm more like, yeah, no, I can get new friends. I cannot be as close with some people 'cause they don't [00:46:00] really align with who I am anymore. And that's totally fine. People ebb and flow and change. 

[00:46:04] Heather: It's totally fine. It's totally healthy.

[00:46:06] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:46:06] Heather: But I'm proud of you for asking that question 'cause that I even in that question, it's very introspective. Yeah. And it's also very addict to not think you're good enough or enough to be part of a group. So you're an 

[00:46:18] Zoe: addict. You should stay sober. Yeah, 

[00:46:19] Heather: yeah, yeah, yeah. You're in the group babe. It's not whether you wanna be or not, you are here.

Welcome. 

[00:46:25] Zoe: Okay. Thanks for being here. A long one. I got sober March 17th, 2020, after six months of dragging myself to meetings after my life. Fell apart around my 23rd birthday. Now I'm almost 30 and nearly six years sober. My drinking really feels like another life, but I am still in the city suburb. I drank in.

So there are still memories around every corner. 

[00:46:51] Heather: I'm still in the city suburb I drank in, so that's 

[00:46:53] Zoe: Oh, 

[00:46:53] Heather: okay. 

[00:46:54] Zoe: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. The longer time I get, the nicer I think a drink would be. Not that I [00:47:00] want to go back. I am terrified of my consequences. Hospitals, police cells, cheating misery. But the idea of.

Trying has sat in the back of my mind. I have a sponsor and Sponsee, so I feel like a bit of a fraud. But for today and these holidays, I am not going to have a drink. Um, 

[00:47:18] Heather: I think I've Interesting. Yeah. So good. Such a good question. Such a difficult question. 

[00:47:23] Zoe: You can talk about that too. Anyone at the meetings and they'll all be like, oh yeah, I get it.

Like, you're not alone in this feeling. 

[00:47:31] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:47:32] Zoe: At all. 

[00:47:32] Heather: You know, I was just gonna say, I think like feeling like a fraud is, is like the theme of everything. 

[00:47:39] Zoe: Yeah. It's like, and we cannot be lying. 

[00:47:41] Heather: No. 

[00:47:41] Zoe: So like, tell people how you're feeling. You know, 

[00:47:44] Heather: it's, there's no shame in that at all. Yeah. 

[00:47:46] Zoe: No shame. 

[00:47:47] Heather: There's no one way to be sober.

There's no perfect way to be sober. 

[00:47:50] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:47:51] Heather: The best way to be sober is to be honest. Yeah. And talk about it. Yeah. And because I have that, we've said this before, still now. Sometimes I [00:48:00] smell the cold outside. I walked by a fire the other day, like a fire camp fire. 

[00:48:05] Zoe: Oh 

[00:48:05] Heather: yeah. Someone was having a campfire. 

[00:48:06] Zoe: In the, in the winter.

Yeah. Interesting. 

[00:48:11] Heather: I mean, they were wearing their snowsuits, but I smell a campfire and I'm like, oh my God, I wanna drink. 

[00:48:15] Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:48:16] Heather: And I say it out loud. 

[00:48:18] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:18] Heather: Because it like puts into perspective what my craving actually is. Yes. And once I say it, I'm like, okay, that takes so much weight off of it.

[00:48:26] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:27] Heather: I will say, if you really wanna drink and you can't stop thinking about it, go to therapy. 

[00:48:35] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:48:35] Heather: Because there's something, there's something in there. 

[00:48:39] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:39] Heather: That like you need a void to fill. And whether it's just like you're a rebel. Mm-hmm. And you like, just want the thrill of it, or you just wanna see, you don't need to see, 

[00:48:50] Zoe: you don't need to see.

[00:48:51] Heather: You're smart, you're sober. You know exactly what the fuck would happen. 

[00:48:54] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:56] Heather: And even if, let's say even if you had a drink and you were completely fine. 

[00:48:59] Zoe: [00:49:00] Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:00] Heather: Okay. Now what? 

[00:49:02] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:49:02] Heather: Who cares? Is your life better now that you've like had one drink and you're okay with it? Because I'm gonna tell you right now, don't have a couple more.

Your life's gonna be fucking in shambles. 

[00:49:11] Zoe: I do not want one drink. I don't think she wants one drink. Like it. That's not what you want. And I think that's great that you were honest with us, but like now be honest about it to everyone in your circle and 

[00:49:24] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:49:25] Zoe: Once you tell people, then they can hold you accountable as well.

Like it's better that everyone knows how you're feeling. 

[00:49:31] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:49:31] Zoe: And everyone feels that way throughout their sobriety. Um, you're not alone in that feeling. That's very, very common. Yeah. And getting sober at 23 girl. 

[00:49:42] Heather: Damn. 

[00:49:42] Zoe: It's amazing. 

[00:49:43] Heather: It's amazing. 

[00:49:44] Zoe: And she's 30 or almost 30. Yeah. That's really fucking cool.

[00:49:47] Heather: We do talk about that too. Like the younger, you get sober, it's like, yeah, well, why wouldn't you start drinking again when you're 30? Yeah. Because yeah. That was your frontal lobe wasn't even developed yet. Yeah. Like maybe it's like No, no, 

[00:49:58] Zoe: no. Why Even like try. Yeah. [00:50:00] Like I'm sure your life is so good right now.

Like there's nothing that drinking would add to your life. 

[00:50:06] Heather: Well, that's the thing too, right? Like there is nothing that alcohol will make better. 

[00:50:10] Zoe: No. 

[00:50:11] Heather: But yeah, tell people how you're feeling. Tell your sponsees or your sponsor whatever's appropriate. Tell people because they're going to be feeling the exact same way.

[00:50:19] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:50:20] Heather: And the answer is don't do it. 

[00:50:22] Zoe: And yeah, if you feel like you're a fraud because you keep telling people that you're feeling okay about everything, yeah, that's fine. Like 

[00:50:30] Heather: yeah, 

[00:50:31] Zoe: it's you just be honest with them. Now 

[00:50:33] Heather: it's also, that's the work, right? Yeah. Like this is the work of being sober. You don't just get sober and everything is perfect, even six years down the road.

It's like, shit, I wanna drink work. Continual. Yeah, exactly. The work is to then talk about it. Tell people, go through your feelings. 

[00:50:46] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:50:47] Heather: But you're gonna be fine. 

[00:50:49] Zoe: Do you feel like that at all right now? 

[00:50:52] Heather: No, 

[00:50:53] Zoe: me neither 

[00:50:53] Heather: that I wanna drink. No, not in like a, not in a way that's bugging me. Yeah. I have been through times [00:51:00] that it's bugging me.

Yeah. And I'm like, oh, like what is it? I just like wanna drink because I'm stressed out about something or I'm depressed or I'm like, I don't know. 

[00:51:08] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:09] Heather: I'm in a fuck it. 

[00:51:10] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:51:10] Heather: Mentality a little bit, but No, not at all. 

[00:51:15] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:51:15] Heather: It's so nice. 

[00:51:17] Zoe: It is so nice. I feel like, so I guess maybe I felt like a little bit of a fraud because I didn't have a sponsee for so long.

[00:51:25] Heather: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:26] Zoe: But now that, 

[00:51:27] Heather: so much pressure now 

[00:51:28] Zoe: that like I'm in the swing of sponsee. I feel like way better about my own sobriety and like my worth of being in the meetings, I guess. 

[00:51:37] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:51:38] Zoe: Um. But yeah, I haven't felt like I wanted to drink in a long time. 

[00:51:43] Heather: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:44] Zoe: I find it so stupid when you make jokes about it though.

It's so funny to me. 

[00:51:48] Heather: Oh my God. 

[00:51:48] Zoe: Like drinking in Costa Rica. 

[00:51:50] Heather: Hilarious. 

[00:51:51] Zoe: Hilarious. 

[00:51:51] Heather: It's just never gonna, the thing is, if you and me drink together, we would never come back. We'd be dead. 

[00:51:55] Zoe: Never. 

[00:51:55] Heather: Like, there's just not a world. 

[00:51:57] Zoe: No. 

[00:51:58] Heather: I think making jokes does help though, [00:52:00] because 

[00:52:00] Zoe: I think it does too. It's 

[00:52:01] Heather: what we would've done and it's so ridiculous and we're in it together.

That's the other thing too, like your meetings are great, your sponsees are great. Find a sober friend. 

[00:52:10] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:52:10] Heather: Be sober with your friend. Yeah. It's really helpful. 

[00:52:13] Zoe: It is. 

[00:52:13] Heather: Because then, you know, it's like I'm going out for dinner with Zoe. We're gonna have a mocktail. 

[00:52:17] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:52:17] Heather: We're gonna laugh and have so much fun and talk about pegging, so, 

[00:52:21] Zoe: mm.

Stay tuned for that. Stay tuned. Next question. 

[00:52:25] Heather: Okay, next question. Hi. You ladies are wonderful, but admittedly, oh wait, hold on. But admittedly, I fucking hate you. Hi, you ladies are wonderful, but I admittedly have fully stalked you listened to all the episodes. I, I thank you. I just turned 38 coming out of a long-term relationship and just started Naltrexone.

So far, I'm cautiously optimistic. Have you ladies had any experience with that? My doctor said there's no harm in starting it as I approach more serious treatment options like AA or outpatient slash inpatient rehab. Thank you for any thoughts. Sorry if it's been [00:53:00] previously addressed. Xo XO from North Carolina.

[00:53:02] Zoe: North Carolina. Hi, 

[00:53:04] Heather: North 

[00:53:04] Zoe: Carolina. Oh my God. Is it like hot there right now 

[00:53:07] Heather: in the North Carolinas? Probably. I don't 

[00:53:09] Zoe: fucking 

[00:53:09] Heather: know. I don't, I don't know. We, we 

[00:53:11] Zoe: don't, we're not geography people. 

[00:53:13] Heather: We don't know shit about. Fuck. I'm sure 

[00:53:14] Zoe: I've 

[00:53:15] Heather: been there. I feel like we used to drive through the Carolinas, but.

Naltrexone. Yeah. Okay. What I understand naltrexone to be is an anti craving drug. So when I was in rehab, a lot of people were on naltrexone. I was on a different drug called camper. Yeah. It's used 

[00:53:30] Zoe: for alcohol use disorder. Mm-hmm. Reduces craving and the reward feeling from drinking, helping people drink less 

[00:53:37] Heather: or stop altogether, I 

[00:53:38] Zoe: think.

Yeah. So like, I guess it can be used for alcohol use disorder or opiate use disorder. 

[00:53:43] Heather: And I think it, like, it does something with your receptors where it, it, it might not let you get high or drunk or it might make you sick if you do. 

[00:53:52] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:52] Heather: Something like that. But what I noticed, I took it when I was in rehab.

Okay. So I didn't take it while I was drinking or anything. 

[00:53:58] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:53:58] Heather: Just when I got to rehab and it cut my [00:54:00] cravings off. 

[00:54:01] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:01] Heather: Like it really did. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, I was on camper at camper State. And you take it like what? Once a day? Twice a day. I can't remember. But what it did do to me, and I didn't really realize this until I came home 

[00:54:15] Zoe: mm-hmm.

[00:54:15] Heather: But my rehab experience with my cravings was great. I took it every single day. The second I got to rehab, they prescribed me this thing. 

[00:54:21] Zoe: Are you allowed to be on it for a long time? 

[00:54:24] Heather: So I think what they say is like, it's a temporary drug. Okay. In the same way that like, antidepressants are supposed to be temporary, but nobody told me.

[00:54:30] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:31] Heather: So now we're dealing with that, but I think it's a, it's supposed to be a temporary drug to help you get off 

[00:54:37] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:54:38] Heather: Alcohol and drugs. 

[00:54:39] Zoe: Okay. 

[00:54:40] Heather: What it did for me also is it cut off all my cravings. 

[00:54:46] Zoe: Mm. 

[00:54:46] Heather: So I was not horny. 

[00:54:48] Zoe: Mm. 

[00:54:48] Heather: And I was not hungry. And I remember being at my dad's house and he makes this like, I don't know, he makes this like pasta chicken thing that's like my favorite.

And it's so good. Yummy. And he called us down for dinner and I was [00:55:00] like. Oh, ew. Like, I don't want to eat that. And I remember because up until that point I was eating my feelings. 

[00:55:05] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:55:06] Heather: And that point I was like, oh, oh, 

[00:55:09] Zoe: right. 

[00:55:09] Heather: I don't want alcohol. I don't want anything. Yeah. Like nothing that gives me that joy.

[00:55:15] Zoe: So were you on it like even after rehab? 

[00:55:17] Heather: I was on it for a month after rehab. Okay. And then I ran out of it and my doctor was kind of like strange about it to me. Like she was kind of like, yeah, well I don't know if you're still supposed to be on this. And I was like, okay, I guess I just won't take it.

And then I just stopped it. But there was no side effects of like stopping cold Turkey. It just was, it was fine. And I had already kind of like come back to my apartment 

[00:55:36] Zoe: mm-hmm. 

[00:55:37] Heather: And was like going through my life. So like doing everything without cravings was really helpful. And then getting off of it, I was Okay.

[00:55:43] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:55:44] Heather: I think some people think it's cheating. 

[00:55:46] Zoe: Well, that's the thing. Like you haven't, she hasn't started like a program of action of sobriety yet. Mm-hmm. She wants to, she wants to get into outpatient, she wants to get into meetings. Mm-hmm. So. Until you [00:56:00] find what you're going to be doing next. I think this is great for the in-between stage.

[00:56:04] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:56:05] Zoe: Um, I think don't think too much about it. Like this is just what you're doing right now. Yeah. And find like the next thing that you're gonna be doing towards your sobriety. 

[00:56:14] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:56:15] Zoe: Um, 

[00:56:15] Heather: it's a really good thing. Yeah. It's a very good drug. It's very helpful. It's not like, um, Dilaudid, it's not like it's an opiate.

Yeah. It's not, it's not getting you high on something else. It's literally just helping your cravings. Yeah. As if you're like, I don't know, taking something to chill you out a little bit. Yeah. 

[00:56:33] Zoe: Like, it's, 

[00:56:33] Heather: it's good. 

[00:56:34] Zoe: I wanna know why she's going through her breakup or long-term breakup. Oh my god. 

[00:56:39] Heather: We have to know because honestly, 

[00:56:41] Zoe: can you write back into us and tell us like what action you're gonna take next?

And then what happened with your long-term boyfriend happened with your long-term? We have to know. 

[00:56:49] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:56:49] Zoe: Was it, it might've been her drinking. 

[00:56:52] Heather: Maybe it was your drinking. Yeah. But maybe you were also drinking because of this partner. 

[00:56:55] Zoe: Yeah. So let us know. Maybe it went into a cycle and then it got naughty and then it [00:57:00] exploded.

[00:57:00] Heather: Yeah. I think sometimes people who, like they don't go to rehab, they get sober on their own. There's like a badge of honor. And then the same thing when you don't go on like anti craving drugs. Yeah. There's like a badge of honor to be like, no, I did it myself. And it's like, well, we all did it ourselves.

[00:57:14] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:57:14] Heather: But like sometimes. 

[00:57:17] Zoe: You need some, you need a little extra. You need a little bit extra. And I think, again, I wouldn't be like, I'm taking this thing so that I don't drink. I would just be like, okay. It's just like part of your like routine that you're doing right now. Yeah. Don't do think too much into it.

Don't be like, this thing is helping my sobriety. Because don't, like, I don't think you can think too much into it like that. Like it just, it's helping you. It's not working for your sobriety. 

[00:57:42] Heather: No. And I also would say like, it's not the cure. 

[00:57:44] Zoe: It's not the 

[00:57:44] Heather: cure because you can push past anything and drink on anything and do drugs on anything.

But it is really helpful. And I love the idea of you going into some sort of program, inpatient, outpatient, AA finding a community. 

[00:57:57] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:58] Heather: Because that's just gonna be like a, A [00:58:00] helpful little push. 

[00:58:01] Zoe: Yeah. 

[00:58:01] Heather: You know, it's gonna help you along the way, but you cannot just do Yeah. In my opinion, in our opinion.

Not just Naltrexone, that's just helping your cravings. It's not helping at all. What's going on in here? 

[00:58:11] Zoe: What's going on there? A hundred percent. And then when you like meet people in like a sober community, you can talk to 'em about like being on Naltrexone and what their experience is like, and they can like lead you in the right path mm-hmm.

Of like what you should be doing next. Um, but 

[00:58:26] Heather: don't let anyone tell you that it's not good to be on it or that you shouldn't, or that it's not technically sobriety because it absolutely is. 

[00:58:33] Zoe: It's part of your journey, babe. It's part of your journey. Yeah. 

[00:58:36] Heather: The goal. 

[00:58:36] Zoe: And also if you don't like being on it, then just go off of it.

Yeah. But if you like being on it right now, don't think too much into it. Just keep taking it. 

[00:58:42] Heather: The goal is to be sober in whatever means you can do that. 

[00:58:45] Zoe: Yeah. But that's so cool. Thanks for stalking us. 

[00:58:48] Heather: Oh my God. Thank you for stalking us. But also again, tell us what happened. 

[00:58:52] Zoe: Yeah. What happened with the boy 

[00:58:53] Heather: Uhhuh?

[00:58:54] Zoe: What are we gonna do now? 

[00:58:55] Heather: We'll tell you something crazy if you tell us something crazy. 

[00:58:57] Zoe: Yes. Whatever you wanna know. 

[00:58:59] Heather: Yeah. I [00:59:00] have something in the bag. 

[00:59:00] Zoe: Proud of you. 

[00:59:01] Heather: So proud of you. Oh my God. 

[00:59:03] Zoe: She has something big in the bag, guys. 

[00:59:04] Heather: I do. I have something big in the bag. We can't talk about it yet. 

[00:59:06] Zoe: I can't talk about it yet, but it's coming.

[00:59:07] Heather: Oh, it's, it's coming. 

[00:59:09] Zoe: It's 

[00:59:10] Heather: okay. 

[00:59:11] Zoe: Last one. Let me read. Okay. My ex-boyfriend and I used to drink very heavily. I stopped drinking a month ago and started listening to the podcast. 

[00:59:20] Heather: Oh, 

[00:59:20] Zoe: oh, oh. 

[00:59:21] Heather: Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, 

[00:59:22] Zoe: hey. 

[00:59:23] Heather: Replace boys with a podcast and make it Fuck 

[00:59:26] Zoe: him. 

[00:59:26] Heather: Ours. 

[00:59:27] Zoe: Yes. 

[00:59:27] Heather: Don't fuck him. Don't fuck him again.

[00:59:29] Zoe: Yeah. Do not fuck him again, but like, literally fuck him and 

[00:59:33] Heather: get into 

[00:59:33] Zoe: that. Love us. Yeah. Love us. Oh, oh, oh. Sometimes. Now I miss the heck out of him. Randomly. 

[00:59:39] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:59:39] Zoe: Ugh. 

[00:59:40] Heather: Yeah. 

[00:59:41] Zoe: I wonder if I am craving him or craving alcohol. Both, bro. Of course you're gonna miss both. 

[00:59:47] Heather: Girl. It's all, 

[00:59:49] Zoe: it's all intertwined. 

[00:59:50] Heather: I don't know if that was a girl or a boy, but a man or a woman, but.

That's exactly right. 

[00:59:55] Zoe: It's all 

[00:59:55] Heather: turned to point. It's all the same. 

[00:59:57] Zoe: You're obviously gonna miss him. You obviously [01:00:00] liked him, loved him, whatever he was part of your life. Um, so yeah. Be I always say like, fuck yeah, you can be sad now. You didn't have any feelings before. You couldn't feel anything. Yeah. You were numbing everything out with the drinking.

So now feel these feelings journal. 

[01:00:19] Heather: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:20] Zoe: And of course you're gonna miss him. Of course you're gonna miss alcohol. 

[01:00:23] Heather: Yeah. 

[01:00:24] Zoe: You're grieving to big relationships in your life. 

[01:00:27] Heather: Yeah. 

[01:00:28] Zoe: Um, 

[01:00:29] Heather: yeah. 

[01:00:29] Zoe: You are on the right journey. Keep listening to the podcast. 

[01:00:34] Heather: Yeah. 

[01:00:35] Zoe: Fuck yeah. I'm so happy that you love us like 

[01:00:38] Heather: that.

It's a really important thing you just said though, because we're not supposed to be addicts. We're not supposed to be addicted to something. So sometimes we don't give ourselves the opportunity to grieve. 

[01:00:49] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:00:49] Heather: But. Losing alcohol, taking that away from us. Yeah. It is a funeral. Yeah. It's a breakup. You have to grieve it.

And you're so right, because those get intertwined with each other. You're [01:01:00] sad, so you want comfort. Mm-hmm. You know, comfort in this man. You also know comfort in alcohol. Yeah. And so there isn't really a difference. 

[01:01:06] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:01:07] Heather: But this is also the work. We said that before the work is fighting off those addictions.

Yeah. When you, you're, oh God, I love, this is the thing that, from me, that was 

[01:01:16] Zoe: the best question ever. 

[01:01:17] Heather: That was the best question ever. But this is like the, the, the thing. One of the biggest things I took from rehab is that your addiction doesn't go away. Yeah. It's not going anywhere. 

[01:01:28] Zoe: Yep. 

[01:01:29] Heather: It's doing pushups until it's ready for you to be weak.

[01:01:32] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:01:33] Heather: And get in there. Mm-hmm. So like if I stop doing the work, if we stop doing the pod, if I stop going outside mm-hmm. I'm gonna start having these feelings like mm-hmm. Maybe I miss my ex. Yeah. Maybe him lying about his age wasn't that big of a deal. Maybe I was the prop. Maybe alcohol's not a problem.

Yeah. You go it, it'll take you down and that is your addiction. Yeah. So maybe frame it like that. Anytime you miss your boyfriend, it's not your boyfriend, it's your addiction. Trying to give you a reason. Get [01:02:00] Yeah. To get back in to fuck you again. Yeah. That's what it is. Yeah. So you writing this in. Is literally a testament to your strength.

[01:02:08] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:02:09] Heather: Like, you know exactly what you're feeling. 

[01:02:12] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:12] Heather: You know that you shouldn't be missing him, but you do. 

[01:02:15] Zoe: Yeah. That's Which is fine. That's reason For a reason. For reason. Yeah. You miss him. Obviously. That's not a bad thing to miss. 

[01:02:21] Heather: No. 

[01:02:21] Zoe: Someone that you had a relationship with, that's normal. It's so fine to miss alcohol.

Yeah. I miss alcohol sometimes too. Still. Yeah. Like it was such a big part of my life. 

[01:02:32] Heather: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:32] Zoe: Um, it was my best friend, my partner, and 

[01:02:36] Heather: there were some fun times. Yeah. That made you feel really fucking good. 

[01:02:40] Zoe: Yeah. So you're grieving a lot right now. 

[01:02:42] Heather: Yeah. 

[01:02:42] Zoe: Give yourself some time and some compassion and just let yourself be sad and you're on the right track.

Um, yeah. 

[01:02:51] Heather: You're completely on the right track. 

[01:02:53] Zoe: Yeah. That's really cool that she. Is sober and broke up with her fucking boyfriend 

[01:02:57] Heather: and is introducing like, uh, [01:03:00] two girls into her life. Yeah. Like, this is really amazing. That's three amazing things that you did that are like beyond fathomable sometimes. Like, it's so hard to do, so.

No, 

[01:03:08] Zoe: we're like your best friends now. 

[01:03:09] Heather: Yeah. You're on the right track. 

[01:03:10] Zoe: You're, you're, you're so fine. 

[01:03:12] Heather: Let's go get lunch. 

[01:03:13] Zoe: Let's go. I wanna go to Mulu. Wanna go to Mila? 

[01:03:16] Heather: Okay. Last question. Oh, very proud of you also. 

[01:03:19] Zoe: Yeah. Very, very proud of, of you. Of you. That's so cool. Like, ugh. 

[01:03:23] Heather: When men exit our lives, whether we're ready for them to leave or not, let them go.

Let 

[01:03:29] Zoe: them 

[01:03:30] Heather: go. Okay. They're not. And if you like, you're so worth it. And if you're not worth it to them, then that's not who you need to be around. Totally. Like, it's just true. You're gonna be fine. You're 

[01:03:41] Zoe: gonna be fine. 

[01:03:42] Heather: Tell us your favorite thing about yourselves and your favorite thing about each other.

That's so sweet. 

[01:03:49] Zoe: So sweet. Okay. 

[01:03:50] Heather: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:51] Zoe: My favorite thing about you. Ah. 

[01:03:56] Heather: Yes. 

[01:03:57] Zoe: You're just [01:04:00] un unapologetically yourself in every way possible, which is super cool. Like wearing your heart on your sleeve as much as you do is helping me. It's helping everybody out there, um, even if it's like not something that's good that's going on with you.

Like it's good to tell people what the fuck is going on because everyone just hides it inside. You know, you wear your heart on your sleeve and it's like really bold and strong of you that you do that. Mm-hmm. And it's on, it's probably like really annoying sometimes that you do that. I'm sure you feel like, fuck, I wish I didn't have to do this, but like, it is my favorite thing about you and I love you.

Aww. Thank you. 

[01:04:44] Heather: That was really 

[01:04:45] Zoe: sweet. 

[01:04:45] Heather: That's so nice. Well it's funny 'cause we, when we, when you walked in here, we like started talking about that. Let you think I've like calmed down over the past couple weeks. Yeah. And I have like, you know, I tell people all the time, I'm like, if you need me to shush, just tell me.

Yeah. Like, I know I'm a lot and [01:05:00] I, 

[01:05:00] Zoe: but that's why I fell in love with you. It's like I can't tell you to be quiet all the time. 'cause like that is why I fell in love with you. 

[01:05:07] Heather: Yeah. 

[01:05:07] Zoe: Because you're crazy. And I love it. 

[01:05:09] Heather: I, yeah, I do feel often I leave situations or conversations with people and I'm like, fuck me, why did I say that?

Like, did I have to ask everyone about their dad and their trauma? Mm-hmm. But like something in me, I do. Mm-hmm. And it is annoying and I do worry about being annoying, but that's really nice. Yeah. That you said that. I appreciate it a lot. 

[01:05:28] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:05:28] Heather: I love you. I love 

[01:05:29] Zoe: you too honey. Bye. Okay, now tell me what you like boob meat.

[01:05:33] Heather: Okay. My favorite thing. Oh my god. 

[01:05:37] Zoe: I am scared. 

[01:05:38] Heather: Oh, no, no, no. I, I know what it is. I've always known what it is. 

[01:05:41] Zoe: Okay. 

[01:05:41] Heather: My favorite thing about you? Oh no. My favorite thing about you. God, there's so many things, and I hope that this is suffice to say, but your zest for life is fucking unmatched. 

[01:05:54] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:54] Heather: I don't know how, what you're missing in your brain, but you have [01:06:00] your inhibitions are just like, you're just good to go.

[01:06:04] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:04] Heather: Like life throws shit at you and you're like, it's never like, oh, I dunno if I can do that. You're like, well, we're doing it. 

[01:06:10] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:06:11] Heather: And so how are we gonna do it? Mm-hmm. But I'm already on the bus, like we're going, 

[01:06:14] Zoe: yeah. Come on. Catch up. 

[01:06:15] Heather: Yeah. Like, you have none of that and you don't, you have that with your friends too.

Like, and sometimes I think you think it comes off as tough love, which it probably does sometimes. Yeah. But that's also necessary. 

[01:06:27] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:06:28] Heather: But it's 'cause you care so much and I feel like everything you do, this is also why I was afraid to be your friend. 'cause I was like, if I'm gonna be your friend, she's gonna fucking care about me.

Yeah. Which means I have to be there. 

[01:06:40] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:40] Heather: And that is terrifying. But you are like so into being alive and it's like when anyone comes in your circle, you just kind of get whipped up into it. Mm-hmm. And you're like, here we go, I guess. 

[01:06:54] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:06:54] Heather: And you make other people feel like we can do it. 

[01:06:58] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:06:58] Heather: Like you really All [01:07:00] the time make me feel, I feel so safe because you're around and I'm also like, oh my God, now she's in Portugal.

Holy shit. She's just going nothing. Nothing stops you. And like 

[01:07:10] Zoe: it's amazing. It's probably because like we were so close to death, like I was so close to death a lot of the times I don't even know how much, how many times I ended up in the hospital. Like standing on my, the edge of my balcony is crazy, 

[01:07:23] Heather: insane.

[01:07:24] Zoe: And. Like holding knives up to myself in front of my parents, like mm-hmm. I was, I was so content on just dying. Yeah. I was so fine with it. I was like, okay, I'm an alcoholic. I'm gonna die soon. Fine. Whatever. I don't care about my life. And the fact that I got fucking saved. Yeah. And I am like one of the lucky ones that got this thing of sobriety.

I think it's just like what I, I am so I need to do this now. Like 

[01:07:50] Heather: Yeah. 

[01:07:51] Zoe: You know? 

[01:07:51] Heather: Well, and you're fucking doing it and it's so inspiring and like, again, there's no like perfect way to do sobriety, but the way that you do it. 

[01:07:58] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:58] Heather: It's like you like look [01:08:00] at hardships in the face and you go, great. Lemme kick that shit down.

We're going anyway. I bought my 

[01:08:04] Zoe: ticket. We have to, we're alive. Like we, like I do feel so lucky. Mm-hmm. 'cause a lot of people don't get sobriety. 

[01:08:11] Heather: Yeah. 

[01:08:11] Zoe: Um, so like now that I have it, like what am I gonna do with this like life that I'm so lucky to have? 

[01:08:17] Heather: Yeah. 

[01:08:18] Zoe: I wanna inspire you and get you outta your house.

[01:08:21] Heather: No, you're so fucking inspiring. It's amazing. I was so scared to be your friend, and I'm like, here we fucking go. I guess. Yeah, 

[01:08:28] Zoe: let's do it. But 

[01:08:29] Heather: it's so good. And your boyfriend too, like, I'm like, yeah, you just pick everybody up. 

[01:08:33] Zoe: Yeah. And we're 

[01:08:33] Heather: moving forward. 

[01:08:34] Zoe: We're get, we're going. There's no, no time to look back, you know, like why, why look back.

[01:08:41] Heather: Yeah. 

[01:08:41] Zoe: What's the point? 

[01:08:42] Heather: Yeah. 

[01:08:42] Zoe: We're here now. How are we gonna move forward? 

[01:08:45] Heather: Yeah. Yeah. I know you really are like that. You're like, oh, sorry. You feel like you can't do that because of some weird psychological thing going on? Yeah. Fuck that. 

[01:08:52] Zoe: Get on the The 

[01:08:53] Heather: bus. 

[01:08:53] Zoe: Bus. Go, go, go. That's my favorite thing amongst everything else.

Okay. What's your favorite thing about yourself? 

[01:08:59] Heather: Oh [01:09:00] no. You have to go. 

[01:09:00] Zoe: Okay. My favorite thing about myself, 

[01:09:03] Heather: tits. Imagine if it was, I would love my favorite thing to be, actually, no, I wouldn't. 

[01:09:08] Zoe: I, um, I wish that they were bigger. That's fine. 

[01:09:12] Heather: It's okay. We'll get matching boob jobs in like five years. 

[01:09:14] Zoe: Yeah, we are, we're gonna get that.

[01:09:16] Heather: Yeah, 

[01:09:16] Zoe: for sure. That's the one thing that I will do to myself. I won't get lip filler yet, but I will get a boob job. Mm-hmm. Um, my favorite thing about myself is that I'm sober. I think like, 

[01:09:30] Heather: aw, 

[01:09:31] Zoe: that's has to be the favorite thing about myself. Right. 

[01:09:36] Heather: I don't know. 

[01:09:37] Zoe: I think that's what's coming to mind right now.

Like, just after talking about all that, like, I have overcome something that is so hard and I, like, thankfully, I don't think about alcohol and I'm sober and I get to live this beautiful life, and I couldn't do anything without sobriety. Mm-hmm. So that is my favorite thing about myself. I [01:10:00] wouldn't have anything without it.

[01:10:02] Heather: Yeah. 

[01:10:03] Zoe: Right. 

[01:10:03] Heather: Oh yeah. And like your sobriety, like it just speaks so much to your strength, who you are as a person. Like yeah, that's a great thing to be your favorite thing. 

[01:10:12] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:10:13] Heather: What's my favorite thing? Your 

[01:10:16] Zoe: freckles? 

[01:10:16] Heather: No, my freckles. I think, you know what it actually, my favorite thing about myself has nothing to do with my body.

And that is fucking huge. Yeah. 'cause like my whole life, I still say it to this day, like when we go boxing and I'm like, oh, watch my face. It's like the only thing I have. 

[01:10:32] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:10:32] Heather: Now I know that's a joke. 

[01:10:33] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:10:34] Heather: But I didn't know that. Yeah. Like I found out that I was pretty when I went to university. Mm-hmm. I didn't really know.

And then they were like, oh, you're pretty. I'm like, okay, here we go. I guess this is the most important thing about me. Now I have to be skinny. 

[01:10:47] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[01:10:48] Heather: And so if my body was a certain way or looked a certain way, then I could feel okay about myself. Learning my body's not the most important thing about me has been like the greatest gift.

But my favorite thing about myself, I [01:11:00] think is also the thing I find annoying about myself, which is that I don't give a fuck If you're ready to have this conversation. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna ask you about your trauma. 

[01:11:08] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:11:08] Heather: Like I love it and I really don't get a lot of pushback on anything. 

[01:11:13] Zoe: Well, and it's, you and my granddad are the same person.

I've always said that. Always 

[01:11:21] Heather: your two favorite people. 

[01:11:22] Zoe: Yeah. Literally. That's why I love you so much because you are my granddad. 

[01:11:27] Heather: Well, we were in nom together, so. 

[01:11:28] Zoe: Yeah, exactly. Um, but my granddad just like, has that thing of like, talking to anybody. I think it's like an old person thing too though. Yeah.

Like granddad, he just like talks to anyone, like, can make conversations with everyone. And I always do love being with him because he doesn't give a single fuck. 

[01:11:45] Heather: Yeah. 

[01:11:45] Zoe: You know, he'll talk to whoever and you're kind of like that, like you don't give a fuck. Yeah. Like, you're gonna ask the hard hitting questions.

Yeah. Because, 

[01:11:53] Heather: well, 

[01:11:53] Zoe: I really, I think a lot of people do need the questions that you ask to I think so too. Like, to think about these things, [01:12:00] 

[01:12:00] Heather: it's really important. I need to ask them like, I need to know, like if someone like tells me like, oh yeah. And they like, they did this, this and this, and now they live here.

I'm like, well, 

[01:12:07] Zoe: why? What happened? 

[01:12:07] Heather: Where's their mom? Yeah. Like, what happened? How did you do that? Like, I, I really am, um. I really like that. I, I care about other people and I like You. 

[01:12:18] Zoe: Really like that? You're curious. 

[01:12:19] Heather: I do like that. I'm curious. Yes. And I like that I don't have boundaries. 

[01:12:23] Zoe: Yes. 

[01:12:23] Heather: In, because sometimes I like that.

I like that a lot. You know, like it's a dichotomy. 

[01:12:27] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:12:27] Heather: But I do like that. And I'm gonna keep doing that. So if you meet me on the street, get ready. We're talking about your trauma and your dad. Get, 

[01:12:34] Zoe: get ready. I think they're all ready. I think if you're listening to this podcast, you're ready. Oh. 

[01:12:41] Heather: Now think about your favorite thing about yourself.

And it can't be body related. 

[01:12:43] Zoe: Yes. Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:45] Heather: And then write. And then write in and tell us what you've learned. 

[01:12:48] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:12:49] Heather: And tell us why you broke up with your boyfriend 

[01:12:51] Zoe: and tell us, um, yeah. Tell us what your favorite thing is about you. You should, we should do that and then we can read them all. Oh, that's a 

[01:12:59] Heather: [01:13:00] good idea.

[01:13:00] Zoe: That would be really cute. 

[01:13:01] Heather: Okay. Write in and tell us what you've recently learned about yourself. That's good actually. 

[01:13:06] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:13:06] Heather: Tell us what you've recently learned about yourself and tell us your favorite thing about yourself. 

[01:13:10] Zoe: Yeah. 

[01:13:10] Heather: And you can make it anonymous too. We, we don't have to know that you like yourself.

[01:13:13] Zoe: Yeah. No. You like yourself. You love yourself. Come on. If that's, if you can't love it yourself, how the hell are you gonna love anybody else? Can we get an man up in here? 

[01:13:21] Heather: Amen. 

[01:13:22] Zoe: Have you watched Ru Paul agree season 18? 

[01:13:24] Heather: I'm very busy. Well, 

[01:13:25] Zoe: we'll get caught up. We'll talk about Ru 

[01:13:27] Heather: Paul. We have, we, you have to do just like non, we have to do like a non sobriety Patreon or something where people are like, okay, these dumb bitches are just gonna talk about 

[01:13:35] Zoe: mm-hmm.

[01:13:35] Heather: Heated rivalry. 

[01:13:36] Zoe: Mm-hmm. RuPaul. Mm-hmm. 

[01:13:39] Heather: Housewives. Okay. Well, 

[01:13:43] Zoe: I'm proud of you. 

[01:13:44] Heather: I'm proud of, so proud of you. So proud of you. Thank you so much for those questions. Yeah. Keep 'em coming. We literally love these, we love hearing from you. 

[01:13:51] Zoe: Mm-hmm. 

[01:13:51] Heather: So nice to get different perspectives. 

[01:13:53] Zoe: Yeah. That was really fun. I 

[01:13:54] Heather: liked that a lot.

That was really fun. All right. Stay safe, 

[01:13:57] Zoe: proud of you. Safe. I love you. Proud of you. [01:14:00] Bye.

[01:14:06] Heather: Thanks for listening to Girl Un Drunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Un Drunk podcast and or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com. Proud of you. 

[01:14:17] Zoe: I'm proud of you. I love you so 

[01:14:19] Heather: much. I love you so much. We should like really like cut ourselves in half and then put one half of my body on your body in the end.

I think 

[01:14:26] Zoe: I would like that. 

[01:14:26] Heather: It would be a li You're a little bit short, but we can get you some lifts. 

[01:14:29] Zoe: That's fine. I'm fine. That's fine with, it's fine. We just mold together. Next week we'll be molded as one 

[01:14:34] Heather: like the substance. 

[01:14:35] Zoe: Perfect.

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