#27: A Lot Of Tries (feat. Paige Wood)

Sep 24

This week, Heather reunites with her childhood best friend, Paige Wood, for an emotional and heartfelt conversation. They dive into their private school years, first crushes, and the unspoken competition that shaped their friendship. Heather reflects on addiction, rehab, and what it took to rebuild their bond on new terms in sobriety, while Paige shares thoughtful advice for anyone in a relationship with an addict.

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A Lot of Tries: Transcript

[00:00:00]

Heather: This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening

Hi everyone. Hi Pee. Hi. Welcome back to Girl Undrunk. This is a very weird, exciting, crazy, like, isn't it so weird to even just be sitting here doing this right now? It's really

Paige: weird. I feel like I'm having an body. I know. I, um,

Heather: I, I dermaplaning my face this morning and I feel like I still have like goosebumps, like on my face right now.

It's so. Weird. I'm, I'll be honest, before I introduce, we will, I feel like this is what we've always wanted to do. Yeah. Like sit and have everyone [00:01:00] have to listen to us for an hour. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Feels good. Time down. So today, before we get into the intros of, actually no, let's do intros first.

Obviously. I'm Heather. Hi. Welcome back. Today, we're in Ottawa. I drove to Ottawa last night. I'm staying with my mom. It's so nice. And I have a very special guest today and I'm so excited about it. But this is my friend Paige Wood. Hi. Best friends. Best friend. We've been best friends. Well, we'll get into it.

Many moons. Many moons have passed. Many moons. And then the moons got lost and then the moons came back. Yes. And it's gonna be totally fine. It'll be totally fine. This is P'S per, oh, I call her P. This is Paige's first podcast. So we all remember how mine went. It's gonna be great today. I'm so fucking excited.

Look what we're drinking. We just met this wonderful woman, Alana, at our live event a few weeks ago. She makes non-alcoholic wine and it's exciting [00:02:00] because a lot of non-alcoholic stuff. 'cause you've had like non-alcoholic Coronas. Yeah. A lot of stuff is like 0.05 mm. And that's just like the distillation process.

So it's fine. But this is zero zero and they get the alcohol out. It's like a vacuum. She wrote it down for me. Hold on. Obviously I have to refer to my notes. It gets removed by vacuum distillation. So it, the way she explained it was like, like they suck it out. Yeah. Well the way she explained it was like steaming something essentially.

Like you can, like when you're cooking with alcohol uhhuh and then it steams

Paige: out all the alcohol. Alcohol. Right. It like evaporates.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige: And that's said why you'll get drunk from vodka sauce.

Heather: Damn though.

Paige: So can you have vodka sauce? Yeah. What can you not eat? Um. Well, she's one of those, by the way, I could eat anything if I really wanted to.

Mm-hmm. Um, I eat small amounts of lactose free dairy. Okay. That's changing my life, by the

Heather: way.

Paige: Yeah. I've been putting it in my

Heather: coffee and I feel less [00:03:00] crazy. Yeah.

Paige: It's, it's good. It's a good way to like, get around things and fill some nutritional gaps. What if they are there, like for me? Like protein, like Oh, yeah.

You know, things like Greek yogurt, cottage cheese. Very controversial. I love, yeah. Well, some people think cottage cheese is like nasty.

Heather: Oh. 'cause it looks, it looks horrible. It looks disgusting. Cottage cheese is one of those things I can have in a very small bowl. Yeah. I started eating it in rehab. I was like, I guess we'll try new things.

Yeah. But I, if it, when I see it in its bucket, I'm like, oh yeah. Like a vat of cottage cheese, a vat of anything. Yeah. Really. Fair enough. Okay. Yeah. So this is from Spain. We love Spain. We love a European wine. Very exciting. They have them in. A rose, I think a white and a sparkling white. Um, but I haven't tried them at all yet.

I'm very excited. Alana is gonna come on the pod and tell us all about it. Oh, that's cool. Is this a twist?

Paige: Yeah, it's okay.

Heather: Let's [00:04:00] twist.

Paige: Pants are sweaty 'cause I'm nervous.

Heather: Is it weird to drink wine with me again? Kind, right. You're like, oh, is this zero zero or is she razing me? Okay, let's pour her in. Bubble, bubble toil and trouble.

Why not the whole thing, you know me.

Paige: Fire burning and co bubble.

Heather: I also wanna point out that September is fucking National Recovery Month. Oh

Paige: really? Yeah. So what a happy recovery month and happy recovery month to you too. Thank you. This is really great. That's true. I always forget to count myself amongst the recovered.

I know

Heather: you're

Paige: a

Heather: lunatic too. Yeah.

Paige: Oh, I'm

Heather: Ill. She didn't

Paige: know.

Heather: It's 'cause you've never put anything up your nose. You don't know that you had a problem's. True.

Paige: Well, there's one. No you. Really? Yeah. One time in like a bar bath, you know, classic college stuff. Bar, bathroom, I think, I think my friend told me it was Molly, and I think it was cocaine because the way I behaved afterwards Yeah.

Indicates

Heather: Molly

Paige: indicates cocaine.

Heather: Oh. Indicates [00:05:00] cocaine

Paige: and the way it was administered. But I never was interested in hard drugs. Okay. Like, I would drink and I would smoke weed. Mm-hmm. But the stuff, like the scary stuff, I was always like, Ooh, I don't need to touch. I had like a healthy fear of it, I think.

Yeah.

Heather: I did too at first, and I just was

Paige: like, Hmm, that's like the devil. I don't need to know. Do you

Heather: remember the first time we drank together?

Paige: Okay. I don't know if, um, oh, was it at my house? Did you steal my dad's beer

Heather: with With R. With R. Your friend R.

Paige: Yes.

Heather: I won't say their name, but, um, how are they?

Paige: Um, I don't know.

Okay. We're not really connected. Interesting anymore. I like, every few years, one of us will send the other one a message and just be like, Hey, love you, hope you're doing well, kind of thing. Yeah. One of those, I honestly have no idea. Dang. But I love her.

Heather: Yeah. But that, you guys had, that was young, so that would've been probably seventh grade.

Mm-hmm. Or maybe sixth grade.

Paige: I, I came in [00:06:00] sixth grade. Sixth grade. But I know that I didn't start taking one of, and I would take like, literally one Yeah. Of my dad's beers. Yeah. Till I was like closer to, I was probably like 13, maybe 12.

Heather: Okay. Yeah. So like grade six seven. Grade seven

Paige: probably.

Heather: I came over to your house and this was funny because you and me, I think a big theme of our friendship, especially for me, has been competition Uhhuh.

Like, oh, should we cheers this, by the way? Yeah. We didn't even try. Cheers. I love you so much. I'm so glad. Thank you for coming.

Ah.

Paige: No, that's

Heather: really good. Damn. I love a wine. Thank you, Alana. This is amazing.

Paige: I'm always like, how do you make a non-alcoholic wine? Still tastes like wine. I,

Heather: but it's the distill. She told me that sometimes in Europe, like they'll, they'll bring it to two different places. Like they'll distill it twice. Mm.

But yeah, because sometimes when non-alcoholic wine first came out, I was like, this is raisins. It just tasted like raisins. Yeah, that's what I've always

Paige: heard, that it just [00:07:00] tasted like, or like grape juice kind of thing, that it wasn't really that good. 'cause I knew like pregnant people who would like, and I'm like, what's, I'd rather just.

The sparkling water at that point. But this is actually really good. Yeah, I would absolutely drink that.

Heather: It is nice to, instead of a glass of wine, I ro this is like what I've al I've, I romanticize wine so much and like to be able to, and it's, it is fine for me for some people, like, I'm sure it's like triggering or whatever for me, it's so nice to just be able to sit down, drink a glass of wine, chill the fuck out.

Mm-hmm. And then go on with my day and have a great sleep and wake up the next morning. Like, it's,

Paige: it's the experience and the, it's the whole thing. What it feels like. What it represents

Heather: a facade. Yeah. Rich. And I love champagne, so. Yeah. Um, for the first time we drank together. Mm-hmm. I was so scared because I thought you two were so fucking cool because you were, you guys were like weird little goths and I didn't know about goths.

Like I was just like, you know, me and my suburb. I didn't know about goths. And then you came to the school and somehow you were like, still goth. Seen. [00:08:00] Mm-hmm. Seen? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yet we were wearing like uniforms, but you would still find a way to do like black streak. There was always a

Paige: way to bend the rules story of my life.

That is true. Did you get into a lot of

Heather: trouble as a kid? No.

Paige: No. Not a lot of trouble, but when I did get in trouble, it was usually big trouble. Big trouble. So things like, the first time I got way too drunk when I was 15, and that's the only time I was ever grounded and I was in so much trouble. Where were you?

Um, the basement of like, some kid that I was with the same friend.

Heather: Okay.

Paige: Um, our, I was with her and I was with like a couple of guys that she knew from school or whatever in town. Mm-hmm. And we drank like, we were like 15. We drank like tequila and Kool-Aid and I threw up all over the rug and my mom came and picked us up.

It was Halloween, me and Halloween, and she took me to the hospital. My brother had to carry me into the house and then she ended [00:09:00] up taking me to the hospital. She was really worried and she, well, I was so, I only drank, I was so messed up. I was like a hundred pounds. I, I was gonna say like,

Heather: you're a very tiny person.

Back then you were like maybe a hundred pounds. Yeah. And that

Paige: was the first, well, not the first time that I got drunk. That's not true. But the first time that I got two drunk and got sick and stuff like that. And, um, she took me to the hospital 'cause she was convinced I'd like taken drugs or something.

'cause I was so out of it. Yeah. And then they just like put me on an IV and kept me overnight. Nice. And I was grounded. Did they yell in your face? Um, not so much. That's not really my parents' style. They, not much of yellers in my household, but like, I don't

Heather: know if I've ever heard them yell.

Paige: I have, and in both, both cases, mom and dad, it's scary.

It's like, you know, when they get mad enough to get like that, then it's like, oh my God, this is so scary. Yeah. Um, but more like that really, really intense disappointment.

Heather: So much worse

Paige: and so much worse. Yeah. And as like a, a genuine people pleaser [00:10:00] growing up I was like, oh no, you're

Heather: mad at me. And that was like enough.

I find it interesting though, because you were such a good kid. So like you getting in trouble, like I would've figured, 'cause at this time too, when, when I went to high school, I feel like you and I didn't talk that much.

Paige: Yeah. You came to a couple parties with me.

Heather: I did. And we were playing made out

Paige: with boys.

Heather: What were their names? Who was, what was the first and last initial of the name of the guy that I made out with in Bray side?

Paige: I wanna say it was a G. What is it?

Heather: That's

Paige: it.

Heather: That's it. He was so hot. But he's bald now, right? I think so. Yeah. That's okay. He was a good kisser. That was like the first time I felt like I was a teenager when I was like, no, I would've already gone to college, I think.

'cause I didn't kiss a boy till I was. This might be something you actually don't know. Can I confess something fucking crazy to you right now? Yeah. No. I think you already know what that boyfriend that I [00:11:00] had. Yeah. You know that he didn't exist?

No.

Paige: Okay. I knew it. What you knew knew. I knew you. Well. I didn't know that little liar. I knew it. And you never admitted that to me. And the number of elaborate stories you told me

Heather: I know about this boy that was not real. He was a real person. He was brothers with my friend. Okay. But we never talked. Kiss, touched her, ever spoke.

Okay.

Paige: I feel really validated right now. I feel

Heather: really bad. Don't feel bad. It's kind of hilarious. It's crazy. I was having my like first romantic or sexual experiences with a fake person. Yeah. That's crazy. You know what? I love the, the scar. I feel like at that time you were starting to be friends with the armed Pryor boys and so you had a phone and I [00:12:00] had a phone and you were texting boys and I was so jealous.

I always felt like you had more of a life than me. And so I think probably if I'm going back into my kid brain, I was just like, oh, I want, I need to be cool. Like I need to be ahead of her. You know it cra it made me crazy when you got a bra before me. It fucking made me crazy. Oh my God, Kate, I was so mean to you.

But your boobs, I'm

Paige: sorry. So many things going right. We haven't even started. No, but I feel like it needs to be said that, like you kind of said, like for you, you felt like our friendship was kind of competitive when we were younger. We have always loved each other so deeply. We went to a school where, mm-hmm.

There were not a lot of eligible friends around, like very small school, very small classroom sizes. So we latched onto each other immediately. We latched onto each other. When you came to visit the school in fifth grade From my visit, I was like mine and I was like, guess this is my new best friend. Um, which I love to joke that Heather was [00:13:00] assigned to be my friend because she was literally told like there's a new girl coming to like, yeah, see the school and you have to take her around and basically make her wanna come here.

And

Heather: I was really the only one who could do that.

Paige: You succeed. You were the only one for the job. Kind of duped me. We'll say I need, no, you know what you're like I need someone to trauma bond

Heather: with. I think that's probably true. I think if I had like known what I was doing, I was like, I'm manipulating this bitch to come be my best friend.

'cause what is going on here?

Paige: But the funny thing to me is so like. My point is we spent so much time together and we were at that school from like 8:00 AM till 5:30 PM Monday to Friday. Mm. And it was just so much time together. And then sometimes spending time together on the weekends. Like you weren't dancing.

I wasn't dancing, whatever.

Heather: Mm-hmm. Or skipping school to go snowboarding. Remember when our mom taught us do that? So

Paige: that's the coolest thing my mom's ever done. Same. So cool. Ever. Mm-hmm. Um, 'cause she would make me go

Heather: to school sick. She made me go to school with a broken arm. I mean Yeah, you showed up to school and like immediately passed out once, twice.

Twice,

Paige: right. Yeah. [00:14:00] Um, but she did let me skip school to go snowboarding with you, which was sick.

Heather: Yeah. Um, I think she probably knew we needed that.

Paige: Yeah, I think so. But anyway, so I just, I feel like. So that's kinda like the groundwork there. But there was, we spent so much time with each other and everyone fights with their friends when they're young.

Yeah. But we spent so much time with each other and we were both sort of, I feel like always vying for who's the smartest one? Who's the prettiest one? Yeah.

Heather: Who has the bo who has, who's dating Justin? Yeah. Like, I feel like I can say it. Yeah. Excuse me. I dated him for like two seconds in sixth grade and then fifth grade.

That's when you were coming to the school. And I was afraid of boys and that continued on, but I didn't date him till grade nine for like almost a year. I know. And then you like big dated him.

Paige: Mm-hmm. You like he was a nice boy.

Heather: Can I mention the first time you had sex? Sure. The first time that Paige had sex, I, the first time you had sex?

I was, I was thrown into a spiral after that. I, I remember

Paige: telling you [00:15:00] about

Heather: that on my driveway. Yeah. And you were wearing those American Eagle like. Patch Plaid walker shorts. Those were cute

Paige: little shorts. I

Heather: know. In your little butt. I remember your butt. Mm-hmm. I mean, I do know you buy your butt more than I know you by your face, I think.

Yeah.

Paige: Yeah.

Heather: Um, and I was like, oh fuck. I'm not there at all. And I think that's where I really started to feel us separate because I was like, I'm never gonna have sex. I'm not there at all. I've never kissed a boy. I've been lying about it, but I've never touched a boy. We've never held hands, except for with Alec.

How are you? How about you, by the way, I miss him. Oh, I feel so bad for we're so mean to him. Well, that's what happens. Kay. But now he's like married, I think. Is he good for him? I don't know. I think probably they all are and they're all like in the mountains. A lot of them left and went to the mountains.

Yeah. Didn't he start

Paige: kayaking a lot or something? Camping. I feel like I remember something about outside, outside that on social media, outside people.

Heather: Yeah. Um, and that was really hard for me. And I remember that being like a. [00:16:00] What the fuck am I gonna do now? Like, I'm gonna have to lie about having sex.

Like this is crazy.

Paige: See, it's so funny to me that you felt like you were trying to keep up with me because I feel like I spent so much of my life trying to keep up with you. Yeah. But just I guess in different ways. Yeah. Because, well, I, like, I wasn't scared of boys and I was like, yeah. You know, so I think that was something that like I just matured with a little bit more quickly.

Yeah. And not even in like a bad way to be clear. Like I feel very good about the way that like my experiences went. Totally. And I had some good boyfriends and I had some, not great boyfriends, but I was always kind of dating somebody. Yeah. Like with whatever level of seriousness you can when you're in high school and stuff.

Yeah. Um, so I feel like maybe I was doing that stuff more and it's so funny that you think like, I was so cool with like my little, like my eyeliner and my leg. Evanescence playlist. Your long, your long black spurts, and you're like, oh. Which are kind of back in [00:17:00] right now. And I'm like, I know I have one.

Excuse me. 'cause you definitely made fun of me for wearing that before. Um, 100%. But it's so funny. I'm jealous of you. Well, but I always, this is now just gonna turn into us, like telling each other how cool we are for the next hour. But I always was like, Ugh, Heather's so cool. I was always like, where did you get that outfit?

Because how do I get that out? Because we weren't shopping at the same places. Like you were wearing like Abercrombie and like all this kind of stuff, and you had like all these cool, like more like preppy mm-hmm. Kind of outfits. And I was like, oh, well Heather's really cool and everybody likes her. So like, I should now do that.

And like you have this huge personality and you're super funny and you walk in a room, you start talking, everybody pays attention. Mm-hmm. It's just the way it has always been. Like whether they're like, oh my God, this girl's hilarious and I wanna be her friend, which I think is like most people. Or they're like, oh my God, where did this girl just come from?

Like she just came in and sucked all the oxygen out of the room. But I don't even mean that in a bad way. I was so envious of that because I [00:18:00] come across extroverted, but I'm actually like a very okay, introverted person at my core. And I can be shy in new social situations. And I feel like you could just walk in a room and I'm like, and you were this incredibly talented dancer.

Mm. And there were just so many things. I felt like you did so much better than me. And I felt like I was always trying to be cool enough to be your friend. Really? Which, yeah. Which is why when we grew apart, I was like, Ugh, I didn't make the fucking cut.

Heather: Oh my God. Yeah. We'll get into all of that. I. It's so funny 'cause I, I felt the same way about you.

I was like, she's this new girl. We're all like old news now. You're coming in in grade five. Yeah. You were also like so tiny. Which was like always interesting to me. Like I, I was, I've always been obsessed with like being tiny. Mm-hmm. Like I wanna be tiny. And I was like, oh my God, she's so skinny and little and she's wearing glasses so that means she's smart.

Which is, I still think that actually just a lazy eye.

Paige: But we can go with the smart thing bumping [00:19:00] into walls

Heather: that's cuter. You were also extremely smart and that was very hard for me also. Well, yeah. Okay, so listen up until Paige got there, I was winning the French award and then Paige got there and immediately won

Paige: the French award.

I knew the French award was gonna come up. I'll never let it go. I knew it was gonna come up. I came from French immersion though. Yeah.

Heather: So it wasn't there. And then into

Paige: a school where I'm not confident that the French teacher knew French. So

Heather: at the well, and that's exactly right. Where is she? Dead.

Paige: Oh

Heather: God.

Paige: you know if

Heather: any of them are

Paige: dead? I have. Mm. I mean the founder, the founder is dead. I've been on, she was a hundred and some.

Heather: Have you seen the Reddit posts about it?

Paige: No. Show me later.

Heather: Apparently. Apparently a lot of abuse, which makes sense to me. Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about private school?

Paige: Yeah.

Heather: So in the beginning of this pod, I talked about my story. Mm-hmm. And a lot of my story starts at private school. Yeah. I was there two years before you were there. Mm-hmm. [00:20:00] And a lot of it had already started. Yeah. And I'm just wondering what was your experience like there? Like did you have, 'cause I feel like we've kind of gone over this in our lives and I just feel like we had somehow completely different situations being best friends in the same class every single year.

Paige: Yeah. I think, I think it's hard because I think the way that I look at those experiences now is an adult. Mm-hmm. Now that I'm like informed differently, I reflected, I'm like, oh, wait a second. Mm-hmm. More red flags than I maybe would've realized at the time as a kid. Yeah. And as a kid you're just kind of in it and you're just trying to survive and there's so many other things you're worrying about.

Mm-hmm. That at least for me, I wasn't necessarily always focused on what was happening in the classroom or with my teachers. Yeah. Um, that said, I came from a situation where I was being bullied in public school. Yeah. Like [00:21:00] badly from the time I first went to school, always the smallest kid in the class.

Glasses, you know, dumb stuff that like who cares? Yeah. But when you're six, you care when someone makes fun of you for that stuff. Yeah. Um. So for me, there was this relief when I went to private school because I wasn't being bullied anymore. Mm-hmm. Right. My friends weren't being mean to me. Like I met a friend who liked hanging out with me and wanted me to be there, and I was like, how cool is this?

Yeah. And like the boys weren't making fun of me 'cause they were all scared of me for some reason.

Heather: They, oh my god, they, so they still are. That was Chip

Paige: on my shoulder has always taken me far with that.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Paige: Um, but yeah, like, so I think there was a relief for me initially.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige: And um, I think that went over really well.

That said, we do have some experiences that we kind of shared, like in Mr. T's class. Mm-hmm. Um, and then there were some things for me that came up after you'd left the school. 'cause you left after grade eight. Mm-hmm. And I was there for nine and [00:22:00] 10. Yeah. And I feel like I took a lot of heat. Grade nine and grade 10 at that school.

So for me it was sort of later.

Heather: Okay.

Paige: I think by that, like you became

Heather: the me kinda,

Paige: honestly, I've, I've thought about it a lot and it's almost like there was no other outlet for it. So it was like, well, who is the next, who's next in line? Yeah. And I think we all know people like that. Mm-hmm. Because like I've had bosses like that at work.

Yeah. I've known people like that in school. I've had like so many different people I've come across like that who they kind of pick a person. Right. And they pick and they pick and they pick. Mm-hmm. And when they beat that person down and they're no longer standing in front of them, they move on to somebody else.

Yeah. And I feel like that happened to me a little bit. I think it was also hard for me as I got older at that school because it was very conservative. Mm-hmm. And I was not. Yeah. And I had a boyfriend who was like the golden boy at the school. Yeah. And so the whole [00:23:00] narrative was. Keep tabs on them. Paige is gonna corrupt him.

Right, right. Okay. Teenage boy, gimme a break. Like, could not have been further from the truth. It starts so

Heather: early. It's so early. Like how could that have been your fault? It's crazy. Like,

Paige: so, and that was a very, and to be clear, it's not, I'm not saying that he was like, no, but make me do anything. No, but if anyone's being nice,

Heather: it's like, why

Paige: Is it just you?

Yeah. It's just like so funny to me and like I wasn't doing anything that other 15, 16 year olds aren't doing, like wanting to talk to a boy or kiss a boy or hold hands with a boy or whatever. Yeah. But it's like I, I was really bullied by staff. Grade nine particularly, and then it's like when I wasn't dating him anymore in grade 10.

Oh, it stopped? Yeah. Or got better. Mm. But I, by that point, I had such a chip on my shoulder from being bullied as a kid Yeah. And deciding like, I want to be confident, I wanna be this person that I just kind of took it.

Heather: Okay. Yeah.

Paige: You seem to take things, don't feel like [00:24:00] traumatized from it, because I'm just like, yeah, you were being an asshole.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige: Like, yeah, whatever, dude. Like, I'm not gonna listen to you.

Heather: Yeah. And I, I, I wonder what that is if I just got caught up in it too early or if I just didn't have that objective. Objectivity, objectiveness, whatever. I don't know. I couldn't take things in the way that you could. You always, I remember you being yelled at or you being in trouble and you not crying.

Oh, being in the dean's office? Yeah. Oh my God. And being in trouble. And you, the second I stepped in, I would start crying. But you did not. And I was like, what the fuck is all this about? Yeah. I don't know. He would keep me there because I was upset. Yeah. And you got to go.

Paige: I feel like maybe you had more of like a fear of authority and I, I don't like confrontation.

I do not like conflict. Mm-hmm. But I, I can hold my own Yeah. In a conflict situation. Yeah. And I just go to the

Heather: wind.

Paige: I feel like you would just kind of shut down, get quiet and stuff like that. And I think that there's a lot of thi I don't know, and I don't know if this, this is like such a crazy thing to say.

I don't know if this has anything to do with why one [00:25:00] person becomes, um, addicted to alcohol and abuses alcohol and stuff like that. And one person doesn't when they've been through like similar traumas and situations. I've always just kind of been able to like let things roll off my back, be upset about it, and then be like, I can't change that, and all I can do is the next thing.

Yeah. And I feel like you sit in stuff and it affects you really deeply. Yeah. I'm a sensitive person too. Yeah. But it's like there are things that affect you long term that maybe wouldn't affect me long term. Yeah. Is 'cause we process stuff differently.

Heather: Yeah. We really do. I, and I think, I think with that whole thing, I don't think I even really realized that I was holding onto it for so long.

Mm-hmm. But it just kept coming up and everything I was doing, and then finally when I got sober, I was able to go to therapy and be like, what the fuck? Well, rehab was good for this too, but like learning what that whole thing was and why it affected me and like mm-hmm. It's really, really hard. Like I feel like it's still hard to this day because sometimes I feel like [00:26:00] my story isn't true because it didn't happen to you, you know?

Mm-hmm. I mean, it did happen a little bit more to be. But I just, I always felt like my anger and hate towards him, like, you didn't have it as much. And that would frustrate me because I was like, fuck, why am I just crazy? Like, am I not supposed to be upset about this stuff? Like mm-hmm. You know, but we did have very different experiences, or like the way we received it was different.

Paige: Yes. Yeah. And I, I think for me, because I, maybe because I was at that school for a little bit longer, and as I got older mm-hmm. There were certain adults at that school, staff members or teachers or whatever, who I had really positive relationships with.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige: And so I think that softens the blow of the negative relationships, right?

Like, yeah. The principal was so mean to me when I was in grade nine. Like, she was so mean at every opportunity. It made me feel like I was always like gonna do something like really bad. Mm-hmm. Um, I felt like that too. She known me, you know, like calling me out for stuff in front of [00:27:00] the entire dining room full of kids and like, now you're yelling at me because my hair isn't to code or whatever.

In front of like everybody. Like, thanks. That's not very nice of you calling us out for just stupid stuff. Someone bringing alcohol to school and that was our fault. That was so nuts because she said that she was trying to impress us. Yeah. And be cool like us in grade six, we weren't drinking alcohol. I was

Heather: terrified of alcohol at that time.

I was terrified. I was like, this is, I forgotten this all

Paige: about that. That was so weird. I was like, she's gonna get blame for her bringing. Alcohol to school. That was a weird situation. I know. But anyway, yeah. I just, I don't know if the fact that I had some positive relationships along with that, that it like softens the blow of the negative ones.

'cause I still felt like I had safe places to go within that school. Yeah. And like there were some teachers that I really loved and that I'm really grateful for the way that they taught me. And like so many things I think I discovered that I could do or be good at. Yeah. Or that I enjoyed and I wouldn't have known that if it weren't for certain teachers.

Yeah. So for that, I'm very [00:28:00] grateful I got an education. Mm-hmm. Um, and. It's not like any of my other school experiences were perfect. Right. So I'm like, you know, it is what it is. Like I was bullied by kids at one school and I was bullied by staff at the next Yeah, you're like far for their

Heather: course, babe.

This is my life. We kind of touched on this, but I left, actually, the way that I left that school was because I told my mom that you were leaving. And so I know I got to leave and she was so fucking mad after she was like, was she really? You said that Paige was leaving too and now. And I'm like, wow. I left for a semester.

You did? Or like a term you did leave, which is very Was I left for For a few months. Yeah. And I went

Paige: back, which I think about. I'm like, that was so crazy.

Heather: Well, it's not crazy because that's where you were comfortable, regardless of what the fuck was happening. Mm-hmm. You'd been there though. That was your family.

We were there eight to five 30. Yeah. That's your whole family. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So it does make sense to go back. It's like Stockholm Syndrome. It's like an abused wife. They go back, it takes like seven tries often. Yeah. That's a [00:29:00] lot of tries. That's a lot of tries. But I get it. It's like sobriety. Yeah.

So. Ninth grade, I leave, I go to public school and this is where you and I start to drift.

Paige: Mm-hmm.

Heather: For obvious reasons. I'm in school, I'm dancing. I'm like, not at private school, you start dating someone. And I guess that first year we probably were still really close. Mm-hmm. And then it, and then by the end of high school, we just weren't seeing each other as much, I guess.

Yeah. What's your perspective of that time? Because I'm trying to go back to that time and that feels a little less controversial.

Paige: Yeah. It's blurry. I am not one for having the best memory, like welcome to the pod, constantly forgetting things in the middle of my sentence. Yeah. Yeah. Like my husband can tell me where, when Yeah.

How we had any conversation and I'll be like, I have no recollection of this ever happening. Yeah. Um, so I would say [00:30:00] at that time, I think just like you were really busy with dance. Mm-hmm. I was busy with work and dance and school and whatever, and then dating and I had kind of started partying, so I was always busy on the weekends.

Right. With like my high school friends and stuff. So I don't feel like, it didn't feel like an intentional separation. Yeah. And we would still text each other down and then, or call each other. Yeah. So I still kind of had tabs on you and knew what you were doing. Mm-hmm. Sort of. Um, and I feel like it was vice versa.

And then it wasn't really till you went to Boston. Yeah. And I don't think that's entirely your fault because at the same time that is probably when I had like a mental health crisis when I went away. Yeah. I think to school at, what was Ryerson? What's it called now?

Heather: Uh, Toronto Metropolitan University.

Yeah. And

Paige: I only did one semester there and then I came home 'cause I was such a wreck. Right. So I, your mental stuff, I think we were both going through crazy shit. Yeah. And we just didn't talk.

Heather: This is the weirdest thing because when we're kids, we're competing. I think you're cooler. [00:31:00] You think I'm cooler, you think I'm prettier.

I think you're prettier. All these things. It's like obviously you can't when you're a kid, but if we could have just sat down and been like, Hey, this is how I feel. This is how you feel. Yeah. Same with university. That feels like we should have been leaning on each other.

Paige: Mm-hmm.

Heather: But in my opinion, like for me, I felt like anytime a mental thing would come up, I would just pull away from everybody.

Yeah. Like I had zero. I couldn't, yeah. I couldn't do it. Yeah. And then you being not with me, like you being in a different country or even a different city. I like it was, I couldn't like I didn't know how. Yeah.

Paige: It's like how, how do you at 18, 19 call up your friend and be like, I'm not Okay. Yeah. When you yourself don't even really understand maybe that you're not okay.

Yeah. Or the extent of it. And in hindsight, it is so crazy because we were both probably going through very similar things at the same time. But we both felt alone in it. Like, and for me, I didn't tell anybody. Mm-hmm. Right. I didn't, I didn't tell [00:32:00] anybody when I was like deep in my eating disorder. Yeah. I didn't say anything to my parents, my brother, any of my friends.

Oh. Like nobody knew what I was dealing with. The only thing I remember is my mom coming and seeing my res room, which was such a mess. Which is so funny. 'cause like really? You know me now. Yeah. I'm at clothes everywhere, like just a disaster and stuff. It's a tell. And I just remember her looking at me and she was mad at me because my mom is like, clean.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. But she was like, Paige, this is like how really depressed people live. Mm-hmm. And like even in that moment, I wasn't like, oh, I'm depressed.

Heather: Right. You're like, I'm fucking up. I'm doing something wrong. I'm messy.

Paige: Yeah. So like you just don't know at that age to be like, Hey, somebody help. Yeah.

Heather: You don't know.

Especially when it's body stuff. When it's like an eating disorder, you're not going to tell anyone. You're not gonna be like, Hey, now I have a bad feeling about my body. Yeah. You're just gonna handle it or try It

Paige: feels very shameful. Oh, yeah. And like something you very much have to hide. And I think especially at [00:33:00] that time, it was just something people didn't talk about.

Yeah. And if they did, it was like, we saw it in the press that like, you know, like whatever celebrity, Lindsay Lohan,

Heather: Nicole

Paige: Richie, those were our girls, is going, that we rehab for an eating disorder. Yeah. And like how, and like it was painted to be this like really embarrassing, evil, awful thing. Yeah. Yeah.

So of course we didn't wanna tell anybody.

Heather: No. Well I wouldn't have ever even made that connection that like, oh, this is kind of what I'm doing. Like there's no way, I am not famous, I'm not. Mm-hmm. You know, a celebrity. I don't know. But I think the idea sometimes I hear like, oh, well why didn't you just tell someone?

Why didn't you talk to me about it? It's like. In what world was a, my addiction or my eating disorder gonna let me tell anyone? Mm-hmm. And B, I'm like, I didn't want to stop. Mm-hmm. Like, you don't wanna stop when you're in it, you're doing something.

Paige: Yeah. And I'm also always kind of like, well, nobody ever asked.

Yeah. You know, like, and it's funny because I've had friends be like, oh, well I noticed this was weird or that was weird. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, you never just thought, maybe I'll ask.

Heather: Yeah. Right. [00:34:00] You know? Yeah. My sister's like that too. My sister, there's like a lot of things and I, I don't think she feels bad.

I don't want her to feel bad, but the like, did you notice that? And she's like, yeah, I mean, you were definitely gaining weight. But like, I didn't really know. I'm like, how big were you gonna let me get? Like what was I gonna have to explode at your front door for you to be like mm-hmm. Maybe she is have has a problem.

Yeah. Like, holy moly. Yeah. How did your eating disorder start? I.

Paige: Um, I could tell you the exact moment, which is so funny 'cause I'm like, oh, I have like no memory of things. Oh my God.

Heather: Okay.

Paige: Yeah. Yeah. So I, I feel like this really deeds a trigger warning if I go into detail. Um, the whole po a trigger warning, honestly, when walking Yeah.

Trigger. Um, so I remember because I had just been on interest in kind of like an alcohol binge. Okay. And so, to be clear, because this hasn't been said yet, I don't think, I'm not a sober person. Mm-hmm. [00:35:00] Um, but also not an addict, but also not an addict. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Not a problem. However, I've had times mm-hmm.

In the past, particularly when I was younger, where I think I was using alcohol in a way that was very unhealthy and maybe as a coping mechanism. Sure. Um, but absent of like physical addiction, right?

Heather: Yeah. Yeah.

Paige: Um, so I had been on kind of an alcohol binge for. A while at school, going away to school, and I got to a point where I was drinking too much and as a result, I wasn't eating well.

Mm. And I wasn't exercising as much because I'd gone away to school. So I wasn't dancing anymore. And I had started working out towards the end of high school and really eating well because of my migraines and stuff. Right. And I was really trying to keep myself really healthy and I'd kind of gotten off of all of that stuff when I went away to school, I think because I was lonely and I was depressed.

Yeah. I had a long-term boyfriend who was back in Ottawa and I was in Toronto.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige: I didn't know a soul when I [00:36:00] moved to Toronto. Like literally not one person.

Heather: Yeah. In that city. And when we talk about small town to big city. That's you. Like you lived in a very

Paige: small

Heather: town, like one streetlight small town.

Yeah. And knew everybody at high school. Yeah. Right.

Paige: Yeah. So it's huge. It it is. And it's what I thought that I wanted at the time. And then I think I went there and I was like, oh my God, nobody goes outside here. There's like, I remember thinking that. I'm like, what the fuck do you people do all the time?

Indoor cats? And then I was trying to fit into this sort of like, idea of, I think what like all these like GTA kids that were at that school were into. Yeah. And it was like, who's your dad? And like, what celebrity did you see on the street last week? Who's your dad? Just like, you know, if like somebody's dad was rich or something like that.

Oh, famous. Oh, who's your daddy? Who's your daddy? I'm like, what? Like, I don't remember this, you know? Um, who's your dad? I see. So I think all of that spiraled and I just wasn't in a good place and so I wasn't feeling good about my body. Because it was [00:37:00] changing, I'd probably gained some weight. Yeah. And I just wasn't taking good care of myself.

I was feeling really depressed. I was in a very toxic relationship that was long distance. Mm-hmm. And I got to the point where I just like couldn't take it anymore. And I had like binged out on a bunch of food and then I felt disgusting afterwards. And I was like, the only thing I can think of that's gonna make me feel better is if I get this food outta my body.

Mm-hmm. And that's the first time that I purged. And that's the only time I cried when I did it. Were

Heather: you able to do it the first time?

Paige: Yep.

Heather: Really? Yep. Good for you. Yeah,

Paige: I

Heather: just, it chucked him back and I, and I don't mean good for you 'cause That's great. No, obviously. Yeah. It's when you're in that. It's really hard.

It's hard to do. Mm-hmm. It's really hard to make yourself throw up. It's like, especially the first time, or maybe it's easier the first time 'cause you're just like, yeah, I feel like it got harder later. Yeah. Because like you're, your body gets used. Used to it. Yeah. A little bit. My right to the elbow. Yeah.

Like it's crazy. Pull the food out. [00:38:00] How long was that going on before? Or how long was that going on?

Paige: It's really hard to say. Um, 'cause again, my timelines aren't great. I wanna say about a year. Okay. So after you moved

Heather: home

Paige: Yeah. Where I would, it was less frequent at a certain point, but, but there were still times when I would binge and then I would purge and then there were times where I would be very, very, very restrictive with myself.

Mm-hmm. Um, and, but then I remember I kind of knew, I had to figure out what the hell I was doing and fix it. When it got to the point where it wasn't even a binge and a purge, it was like, eat a small meal and purge.

Heather: Okay, it's everything. Right.

Paige: Eat like a 200 calorie California roll. And then feel like I have to get rid of it and then get a green tea on my walk home and like soothe.

It just was, I was like, I can't be, I can't be throwing up in public bathrooms. This is fucking crazy.

Heather: Yeah. Did you have that moment where you were, was there a time you did it in somewhere public and were like, what the fuck am I doing? Yeah,

Paige: [00:39:00] yeah. Literally that exact scenario I ate like California rolls or some little sushi little mm-hmm.

I was a skinny girl meal. Right. And then 40 calories. I walked directly to the Tim Horton's, threw up in the Tim Horton's bathroom, got a green tea, sat there for five minutes, felt like everyone in the establishment must know there's no one else in the bathroom. Yeah. Nobody knew. Nobody cares. But you have that deep shame.

Yeah. Like it feels like this paranoia. Yes. And then I went back to my boyfriend's apartment and I just said to myself like, I have to figure out how to make this better. And I somehow did without professional help, which I don't recommend. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And, and you just stopped doing it. Um. I stopped purging.

Mm-hmm. I was still being restrictive at times and I was still binging at times, but I, in my brain I was like, well, it's fine 'cause I'm not yaking anymore, so. Okay.

Heather: Were you okay to eat and not throw up though? Like were you getting, like, were you in a place where like, oh it's okay 'cause I'll just eat less tomorrow?

Or were you like, [00:40:00] oh my God, I wish I could throw up right now?

Paige: Um. I don't really know. Okay. I, I probably would be like, oh, I ate too much yesterday so I can eat less tomorrow. And then eventually I got into, well, I'll just eat really, really healthy and then it won't matter. Then everything will be fine because I'll be eating really healthy.

Yeah. In hindsight, that was also not mentally healthy because I was in a position where I was depriving myself of certain foods or certain quantities of food still, and I was like, well, I'm feeding myself. I'm eating three, four meals a day. Mm-hmm. You know, doing everything right. But I'm like absolutely terrified.

To walk into a McDonald's or something, you know what I mean? Yeah. Or like I have to eat before I go somewhere. 'cause I don't know what kind of food they're gonna have there. Totally. And I think some of that came from my genuine food sensitivities. Mm-hmm. And like limiting certain things in my diet for my health.

Yeah. 'cause of my migraines and stuff. And then that snowballed into everything is toxic and bad for you.

Heather: Okay. Here we go. [00:41:00] And it was like

Paige: this Orthorexic cr, which no one was talking about

Heather: at this time. Nope. You were just looking healthy. Like just looking like you were the most healthy granola mom.

Paige: And people like my friends were like, oh, I wish I could be healthy like you.

I wish I could. Like, do you know, what do you eat? And like I started losing weight and people notice that and they're like, wow, you look really good. And I remember one of my friend's moms used to like wax my eyebrows. I went to see her and she was like, don't lose any more weight. Okay. And she's like, you look good.

Like I could tell she was trying to be gentle about it, but she was like, don't lose any more weight though. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, ha ha. But I remember in my brain, I was like. Yes. Right. And like, yeah. I thought I was better at that point, which is so crazy. Oh my God. It, yeah. But I was never deathly skinny.

I know. And then that, wait, well you did get, which messes with your head too. It messes with your head. It's like, do I have a problem? I was thin, but I was never, like, I didn't, I don't think I ever really looked unhealthy or malnourished or unwell. So like for me, I was always [00:42:00] like, oh, well it's not that bad 'cause I'm not that skinny.

Yeah. And then it was like I did yoga teacher training and that changed my entire life. Okay. That really helped me get better in a lot of ways. Hmm. When? When

Heather: was that? Where are we timeline

Paige: at this point? I'm like 20. Okay. So it all happened pretty fast. Okay. 'cause you went to school at 18, we're back. Well, I was 19 by the time I went to school.

Right, right, right. Now we're back. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I was like 20. Yeah. I must've been 20 when I did my yoga teacher training. And there's this whole yogic philosophy that like. People I find don't really talk about with like western yoga practice. Mm-hmm. As much it's like touched on in some classes, but like it really kind of saved my life in a way that my dog really, I got my dog and then I had like something to live for and it was wonderful.

She's my little all the time. Like, you saved my life. Yeah. Like, yeah. So I had my dog and I did my yoga teacher training and [00:43:00] around the same time I was doing my yoga teacher training, my relationship ended and I was so heartbroken. That same relationship. Yeah. I got my butt dumped and I was so heartbroken and I really thought I was worthless without this person.

Mm-hmm. And I had done things in our relationship that I wasn't proud of and I was carrying so much guilt with that. Yeah. And I beat myself up for years and years and years. And part of that was like through my eating disorder, it was like a self-harm thing. Totally. And so anyways, through this yoga teacher training, I learned a lot about.

The different sort of branches of the yogic philosophy. Mm-hmm. And this idea of non-judgment and non harm. Okay. Those were the big ones. And you can't properly practice non-judgment if you're still judging yourself. Right. So I had to let go of a lot of stuff. Hmm. Yoga and this idea of non harm. And I'm like, here I am harming my body.

Yeah. Yeah. And my mind with, and it sounds like so woo woo. I mean, have you met me? She's a witch. She's a witch. Um, [00:44:00] but that was like, the lights came on and I'm so grateful for that. And it was very therapeutic even though I didn't go to maybe like, formal therapy. And I'm so grateful for that experience.

Wow. And then after that I started lifting weights and that's when it really,

Heather: okay.

Paige: Thank God.

Heather: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank God we will get into that. 'cause I have a lot of weight questions and not just about like, if you lift a lot of weight. Uh, 'cause I, I really do think that you and your husband are lying to me that you've never shit your.

Lifting weight?

Paige: Not one. There's no way he pulls duck. Some people do. Yeah. He doesn't really eat when he competes though. 'cause he gets anxious. Oh. Nothing in the system. Oh, he's just a girl. Oh yeah. He's just

Heather: a girl.

Paige: Yeah.

Heather: Okay. Well I still don't believe you, but that's okay. Um, uh, I, uh, you, you've peed just have you peed yourself lifting?

Paige: No.

Heather: Okay. But I did see a video of a girl pee herself and I did not love that. Some

Paige: people do experience some pelvic floor dysfunction. So PC by lifting heavy loads. Okay. Yeah.

Heather: Yeah. I [00:45:00] mean, it makes sense, but it's just not for me. I just can't be peeing myself in public. Not anymore. Um, not anymore. At, around that time.

Um. When you had come back. When you had gone back? I think I was like, I, I, I don't remember, but I do have this like little feeling that I was like, probably annoyed with you, that you didn't stay in Toronto. Oh. In the same way that I was kind of annoyed with everybody for like being in a bad relationship or like not doing what they should be doing.

Like, I just, I think I was probably stressed with my own life and I was like taking that out. And I probably never said anything about it, but I was like, the feelings were like, Ugh, like, she's going home. Why is she going home? This is so stupid. Yeah. You know? But obviously I know, like I never, and I, I stopped feeling that way, but I, but that's not like why, but it must have been that year, like my, my sophomore year maybe.

Mm-hmm. I came back to school. I had lost a fuck ton of weight. [00:46:00] Mm-hmm. And then I started gaining it all back. So I I I bet you we saw each other that summer before second year

Paige: probably.

Heather: Yeah. And maybe that's, yeah, that

Paige: checks out. Maybe that's the make maybe I had this boyfriend at that time.

Heather: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Okay. And so that was probably okay for me because at that point I was running every day and I was losing weight and not eating. Mm. And so I felt like I was, uh, like what would you say? Like I was allowed to see you. Like, I felt like, oh, it was okay. So you felt like you couldn't see me when you had gained the weight back?

Yeah, when I had gained all the weight back. That's when I stopped talking to you. Like, it's crazy that you say gained the weight

Paige: back 'cause you were already so skinny.

Heather: Right. But when I, I guess in fresh, like, like, you know when freshman year you're like, you gain 15 pounds Yeah. And then you lose a bunch.

Mm-hmm. But losing all that weight so fast and more, I lost like, I don't know, like 30 pounds probably in a summer. And then coming back to school and being like, okay, go. I'm like, well I can't hold onto this. Like I have to [00:47:00] eventually I'm gonna binge everything and be Miss Big. But I do remember the summer after my sophomore year, I was big and I, or big for me or whatever that was.

Mm-hmm. But I like remember not wanting to see you. I was, this is where it started. Yeah. I was scared to come home and tell you that I was home. 'cause I felt like at that point, a, I was always jealous of your body. Also like you were, I mean, you were, you were just tiny. And you like, I don't know, you had a pool.

So I'm like, oh, we're gonna be in the pool. I can't do that. And I felt so ashamed to see you and I don't know why. 'cause even to this day, it's like you would've been the one who was like, bitch, it's fucking fine. Yeah. Like, come over as you are. I don't care. Yeah. But for some reason with you, I just felt so unworthy in a way.

Or like I just couldn't do it. And then that got worse and worse. And then I guess we didn't talk for a while. [00:48:00]

Paige: Yeah. Or very little. Yeah. 'cause I remember like you FaceTimed me when you were in Guatemala and stuff a few times.

Heather: Okay. Okay. So through college. But it

Paige: was sporadic. Yeah. Like it was very like, like every few months.

Yeah, a few times a year we would kind of talk. Mm-hmm.

Heather: But like that checking in, I feel like that was probably still there. Yeah. We just weren't as close.

Paige: Yeah. And I do remember feeling like. You would be like, oh, I'm gonna be in Ottawa. Like, I'll come see you. And I'm like, great, I'm gonna get to see Heather.

And then that week that I knew you were supposed to be home, you would go dark and you like wouldn't message me or anything. Yeah. And I would always be like, well, what the

Heather: fuck? Like, because I'd probably be drinking when I would text you and be like, I'm so excited to see you. And then I would get sober or I'd be sober and be like, I can't fucking do that.

Yeah. Are you kidding? Yeah. Like, look at me. There's no way. And then what happened? Then I moved to New York. Mm-hmm. You were doing your, we

Paige: didn't really talk at all, I think when you were in New York. No.

Heather: That

Paige: first

Heather: time I don't think we did it [00:49:00] all. No. But then what I remember is like being back in Toronto, when I moved back, there was a ti, there was a, it was a Christmas and I It must have been.

Fuck man. It was before you got. I don't even think you were engaged yet. And I, it was a Christmas and you texted me and you said, if you don't see me over this break, you're not gonna be in my wedding. And that, I don't remember that. You don't remember that? See, like you ain Shit. I don't remember. In my own life, I don't think it was a, it probably wasn't like a, a serious, like you won't be like, it wasn't like a sit down confrontation.

Yeah. But I think it was like a bitch. What the fuck? Yeah. Like kind

Paige: of an ultimatum.

Heather: Like a Yeah.

Paige: We're friends or we're not. Well '

Heather: cause that was our whole thing growing up. Like, we were gonna have weddings together. We were gonna live together. Yeah. We were

Paige: gonna like all that

Heather: stuff. Yeah. And it really, it really hurt me.

And I went home that Christmas and I didn't see you and you texted me [00:50:00] a bunch. And then after that, I think that's when we stopped talking. Mm-hmm. And that, I hate that. Mm-hmm. 'cause like. I mean from, I mean, I don't really know it from your perspective, but from my perspective, I was in so much pain and I wanted to see my best friend, but I could not let you see me like that.

I was so ashamed. I had gone so far, like, I just hated, I was so depressed, I was doing nothing. I was back like in Toronto, being a fucking loser, working at a rcia, and I was like, are you kidding? Like, how, how am I gonna come to you now and be like, after all this time, I'm fucking nothing and ugly. Mm-hmm.

You know? So that was like my perspective of it all, and like, it's shit.

Paige: Yeah. I mean, it makes me so, I kind of feel bad that I texted you that because I'm like, I wouldn't wanna see me either. Like, what a

Heather: bitch. It didn't, it didn't feel bitchy at all. It felt very much like, okay, like I want you in my wedding, [00:51:00] so can you see me?

Like spin it off the pot kind of thing. Yeah. It didn't feel mean, it didn't feel vicious at all. It just felt like, hello? Mm. Yeah. Well, that's good.

Paige: Mm-hmm. I mean. It's so funny because I had no idea we weren't talking enough. Mm-hmm. For me to know what was going on with you. So again, that's where, from my perspective, I'm like, okay, so like you went to Boston Conservatory, you're this incredibly talented dancer.

You finish school there, and then you go and you're working as a dancer in New York and stuff. I'm like, oh, you're you. Just like, I'm not cool enough. Like I'm a country bumpkin. I moved back to my hometown. I had worked a bunch of different kind of odd jobs and stuff. I'd been a camp counselor, I'd worked retail, and then I'd worked at a bunch of different gyms and I was like,

Heather: gonna cry.

Paige: I'd like, and then I was like, oh, well, I'm just a personal trainer. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, I'm just a strength coach. Like, oh, I don't have a cool, like, I'm not working in fashion. Right. And I, I don't live in Toronto and I'm not doing all these cool things that like Heather probably thinks is cool. So [00:52:00] I'm just not worthy and like, whatever, because

Heather: yeah.

Paige: I'm not doing any of these things that, my perception of what people valued, I guess, in mm-hmm. That area from my own experiences when I had been there. Yeah. And maybe that's not fair to you 'cause that's like implying that you're really shallow. No, no. I just think that's what it seemed like to you. We hadn't seen each other in so long, and I think I started to feel like if something was really bad, like with your boyfriend or something, you would call me.

Mm-hmm. And I would be there for you, but then I wouldn't hear from you the rest of the time. And I was like, well, like if I'm gonna be there for you in the, the shitty time, so I wanna be there for the good stuff too. Right. Yeah. And so I think I just felt kind of slighted in that way. Yeah. And I felt a little bit rejected and so I was like, Hey, well I'm not gonna keep putting myself out there.

Mm-hmm. If every time you're in town, you're not gonna come see me. Yeah. Because I had no idea. Like obviously I don't feel that way now knowing what I [00:53:00] know. Yeah. And I understand that it really had so little to do with me Yeah. And everything to do with how you were feeling at the time. But that in the moment, that's how I felt.

Yeah. And I

Heather: am, oh my God. Sorry. I knew I was gonna fucking cry. I, I am so sorry. And I know we've like, gone through this. Yes. That is like, so not even needed at this point. No, I know. But it's just, it's crazy not only for like me to like have be going through my thing and abandon you, but like you were going through shit too.

And I could not give one fuck. I couldn't Yeah.

Paige: But you wouldn't have even known because I didn't tell you. Right. Right. It's the same thing. It's like, you could, how can you be there for me if I'm not gonna say I need you here for me?

Heather: Why did you keep trying with me

Paige: your hard habit to break? Yeah. No, I, I mean, I love you so much.

We did, we went through a lot together as kids. Mm-hmm. And we were so close, like, I don't think that I can properly get across. The sort of [00:54:00] like pressure cooker or friendship was in Yeah. When we were young because we spent so much time together Yeah. Over those years. And I just, I had so much love for you and I always felt like you were so cool and I just wanted to be around you, like you're just a person.

I wanna be around. And I guess I just always like, oh, she's gonna come around. It's okay. Like, we're living separately, like we're busy and stuff. Yeah. And I think, I don't know, like when I care, I, I care a lot about my friends and my family. Yeah. And if, if I care about somebody, I'm not just gonna be like, ah, screw you.

Then like once I'm in, I'm in. Yeah.

Heather: Got

Paige: to

Heather: a Got to a point though.

Paige: Got got to a point. But it's funny because the hardest part of our friendship was not when you were in your worst part of addiction.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Paige: Not by a mile. Really? Yeah. Like I feel like the hardest part was that part there where I felt like rejected and like, oh, okay.

Like to me your worst part of addiction. I [00:55:00] guess I would mean like right before you got sober. Okay. Yeah. And we were actually very, very close through that. Yeah.

Heather: Yeah. Thank God. Which is so

Paige: interesting. 'cause you would think if there was ever a time when I was like, I'm cutting you off, it would've been when you were being a mania.

Heather: I was waiting for you to,

sorry. Um, I was waiting for you when you were pregnant to tell me that. Like, I can't be around him or when he was born. And I, that was like a huge thing for me. When you got pregnant, when you got engaged, we'll, we'll go back. But when you got pregnant, I was like. Oh, okay. This is fucking huge. Like this is a real thing that's happening that's outside of me and like, I like how am I going to survive if like my best friend, like won't let me see her baby, you know?

Yeah. And at that point I was already so sad about you and like all this stuff, but like, that's fine. Like, I saw him, he's the best. But um, [00:56:00] I was very worried. I was waiting for you to cut me off and like, I guess we kind of cut each other off. But you got engaged.

Paige: Mm-hmm.

Heather: And you'd been dating Bren? Oh, sorry.

No, you can say that. Okay, that's fine. Um, you got engaged and you'd been dating Bren for how many years?

Paige: We were dating for like a year when we got engaged. Only a year. A year and a couple months. Oh my God. We got engaged and then we went house shopping two days later.

Heather: And how's it going now?

Paige: He's still around.

Heather: He's still around.

Paige: I cannot get rid of this man. Wow. He's pretty great. He's, I

Heather: love him. Yeah.

Paige: He is a really wonderful person. He

Heather: could probably, do you think he could pick us both up? Oh, yeah, totally. Oh, I was gonna text you yesterday if you trained for it. Do you think you could lift him like Oh, from the ground, like overhead?

Paige: No,

Heather: I

Paige: could lift him

Heather: from

Paige: the ground

Heather: right now. You can. Yes. You're so strong. He's not a big fatty. He's just like a big He's a strong man.

Paige: Yes. Is that what he's considered? He's [00:57:00] muscularly dense.

Heather: Yeah. He competes in strong man. Competes in strong. He's a strong man.

Paige: He is a strong man. That's what

Heather: they call, and a banker, which I think is so funny.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Under his, under his button up. It's just like a Yeah, it's very

Paige: Superman. Clark Kent.

Heather: Yeah. Yeah. Oh God. So cool. Um, I, uh, you got engaged to Brent and I didn't know anything about him. I'd never met him. And I think there was a moment where I kind of felt slighted by that in a way. Like probably not.

Mm-hmm. But like in the way of like, I fucked this up and now like now my best friend is like engaged. I don't know.

Paige: Yeah.

Heather: But I called you

Paige: Yeah.

Heather: From my bed in the morning and I saw that you had got engaged and I was freaking out. I was so happy. I was like, oh my god, Paige and Cage is this crazy. And I called you and I'll just say my perspective of what happened.

The way you answered the phone broke my heart. [00:58:00] 'cause 'cause it was like, it was like you were answering the phone to like a ghost. Like you were like, hello? And I was like, oh my God, you're engaged. Congratulations. And you were like, oh yeah, thanks. And when we got off the phone I was like. Oh my God. Oh my God.

We don't know each other. We're not friends. Like, she fucking hates me. Like, I'm not in her life. I'm an idiot. Why would I even call her? Like, I just was like, duh, I've been sitting here drinking in my bed for fucking years. Like, yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. Do you remember that phone call?

Paige: Yeah, I do remember that phone call.

And I remember it was kind of weird because there's a thing that happens sometimes when big things happen in your life. This may have happened to you even like with like releasing the podcast and stuff mm-hmm. Where like people come out of the woodwork. Yeah. And it's like, now you're here all of a sudden, like, what do you mean?

What are you talking about? Yeah. And I feel like I was just a little bit cautious when I got that phone call. Yeah. Because I was like, oh, now that I'm getting married, like you just wanna come to the party

Heather: After I got off the phone with you. [00:59:00] That's what I felt. I was like, oh my God. She, she's gonna think I called her just so I could come to the wedding.

I, I knew that that's how you were gonna feel. Mm-hmm. Because up until that point, that's kind of what I'd been doing with everybody. Like yeah. I would only call them if I needed them or if I was using them for something and not maliciously. It's just all I had capacity for because I was so fucked up.

But yeah, that phone call sucked. And then did I call you again? I called you again and you were in the car?

Paige: Yeah. Yeah. You must have called me again. 'cause then we had a conversation.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Paige: And you apologized to me.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige: And you asked me did I tell you what was going on to go for coffee with you? No, I don't think so.

Okay. I think you just were like, I'm really sorry. Like, yeah. I haven't been there. Like we haven't really talked. I wanna explain myself like, can we please go get coffee? I'm gonna be in town. And I was kind of like, I mean, yeah, sure. And that made [01:00:00] me feel a little bit better. But it was when we sat down and we had coffee and you really sincerely apologized and you cried.

And I'm pretty sure I cried. Yeah. And I was like, okay, this feels really genuine. Mm-hmm. And like. This is someone, this is like my best friend I wanna have in my life. Mm-hmm. And I just decided to be like, okay, that's fine. But I remember saying to you like, you do that to me again, I'm done. Yeah. I re Yeah.

It's like, you're not doing that again. Yeah. Like, if you're gonna be here, you're gonna be here.

Heather: I remember that ultimatum. And I was like, or ultimatum or whatever. I remember you being like, okay, but I'm not you. If you said something like, I'm gonna have, there's, it's gonna take time for me to trust you again.

Mm-hmm. And I, for some reason I was like, yeah, I, I know. And I, I, but I wanted more than anything, like anything else I wanted to be in your life, like in that moment. And still, I was like, okay, hold on. I'm doing all this bullshit, but like, I will, I will show up. I'll be there. Mm-hmm. [01:01:00] And then

Paige: well, no, then we were okay.

We were great. You came to my wedding. You came to my bridal shower. You came to my wedding. Did you know anything was up with me at that point? Not really. Okay. I mean,

Heather: because I was thin, I was small. Yeah. And you were

Paige: like happy in your new relationship. And he came to the wedding and I got to meet him and he was delightful.

Yeah. And you guys were having so much fun and dancing and like, I just felt like, I was like, okay, this is great. Mm-hmm. And then I think it wasn't until after that when I started to be like, because I was FaceTiming

Heather: you.

Paige: Well, yeah. We were FaceTiming a lot and we will, we will talk for hours at a time on FaceTime.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Paige: And you were always drinking when you FaceTimed me. And then it was like, not only were like, I'm like, okay, whatever. You're having a glass of wine, like big deal. But then it was like you're always. Drunk, slurring your words when you FaceTime me or crying or mm-hmm. Really kind of animated and like, [01:02:00] yeah.

Almost manic high. Hi, Lola. You know, like, you're crying or you're in a really, really phenomenal mood and you're slurring your words. And I was kind of like, yeah, what is this? You know, because no one was seeing anybody COVID and stuff, and you were stuck in your condo, and I was stuck in my house with my husband.

Like, it's hard to clock how bad it is until I came to see you. Totally. Yeah. Yeah.

Heather: But that wa Oh, that was after the wedding? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You came to see me. I don't wanna do this part. We don't have to. No, we have to. We have to. I hate it, but it's okay. You should. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Paige: Because I, I don't wanna hurt your feelings.

My, and I don't want it to be

Heather: like Paige just shitting on No, no. I, I, you know, you know what? I actually think it's really important to hear this perspective from like, the addict's friend, a family member, you know? Yeah. Not seeing me, seeing me. The, it, there's a whole other world. Like I can sit here with Zoe and talk about, I can sit here with you and talk about eating disorders.

Paige: Mm-hmm.

Heather: [01:03:00] But I can sit here with Zoe and talk about all the shit I did, how bad I was doing what I was feeling. But I think a lot of times we miss the perspective of the people around us who love us, who are just essentially getting kicked to the fucking curb and don't know why, you know? Yeah. So, do you wanna tell everyone what happened when you came to see me?

Which time? Oh God. Okay.

Paige: Because I came to see you. Post breakup. Yeah. It was quite a bit post breakup. Yeah. And

Heather: then my friend came over and we went out. Right.

Paige: Yeah. We went out. We had a great time. It all seemed like really fun.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Paige: I think we kissed. Oh, probably. I mean, if I had a nickel, we went to the drag show.

If I had a nickel, um, we did go to the drag show. That was really fun. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, so that time I came and it, it just seemed like a fun, like Girls' weekend, right? Mm-hmm. Like we had like Prosecco at lunch and I thought that [01:04:00] was like, oh my god, so fun. That was such a fun, but in hindsight, I'm like, was Heather just doing this all the time?

Like we split a bottle of Prosecco at lunch. I was like, oh my God, how fun and cool and sex in the city of us. Yeah. Like, I was like, oh my God, this is great. Like, not to be a total nerd, but just there's nowhere to

Heather: do that where I'm from. That's been No, but listen, that's been my whole thing. I, we, Paige and I grew up on Sex in the City.

We would sit in her mom's back room and watch. All of it. And the DVD version that was like, which is not censored, it's porn. And I was so horny all the time, sitting beside you watching Sex in the City at like 12. But that's always what I wanted. I wanted to have a, to have friends that I could go and have a glass of wine with.

Yeah. So it's,

Paige: it was like that.

Heather: Yeah. It was so

Paige: fun. Yeah. It seems just like really cool and really chic and whatever. Mm-hmm. And we did that and like gallivant around the city and whatever. And then, yeah, we got ready and we went out and it was a really fun time. But I do remember noticing when I arrived at your condo, I was like, and I, I yelled at you a couple of times when I was there.

Oh, [01:05:00] my

Heather: dryer,

Paige: because. Okay. Mm. I walk into this apartment and I pretty quickly noticed. I was like, Kate, it's really messy in here. Which, whatever. Not everyone's a clean freak and that's fine. I had

Heather: probably spent 48 hours cleaning,

Paige: but it looked like you hadn't cleaned before I came over and I remember thinking, who the fuck doesn't clean up before they have guests?

Mm-hmm. You know? And I was like, gr And I mean, it's just me. So it's not like I'm expecting like, you know, some sort of regal treatment. But I was like, come on, Heather, clean your place. But I'm like, what ifs? And then it was little things I started to pick up on the dryer was kind of hilarious, but I can't, I can't express to you enough how much of a fire hazard this was.

I know I had to like wash underwear or something like that. 'cause of course I didn't pack enough. And so I did a small load of laundry and I went to put it in the dryer. Another's lint dryer was like in the back of the dryer because it was like one of those little ones, and it was just bursting at the seams like it was [01:06:00] all coming out.

I swear to God, you must have never cleaned that the entire time you had lived there for the last like two years or whatever. And I looked at it and I opened it and I started pulling up this massive chunk of like lint and stuff. And I just remember yelling. I was like, Heather, what the fuck are you trying to burn down the whole condo building?

Yeah, I know. And in that moment I was like, I'm my mom. Um, that's true. But I was like, that is such a, and she's like, oh, ha ha. And I was like, I was like, you can't, that's insane. Mm-hmm. Has no one taught you how to do laundry. And then there were other little things I picked up on where like, I went to pick something up off the floor and I noticed there were wine bottles under the bed.

Yeah. And like, it was little stuff like that where I was like, this is weird. Mm-hmm. But she's going through something right now. She went through a rough breakup. You know, Heather's not a neat freak, whatever. And I think I kind of like chalked it up too. Not a huge deal. Yeah. And then it was the next time that I came and I was pregnant.

Heather: Yeah. So that would've been like a year later probably, right?

Paige: Yeah, probably. And I was like, [01:07:00] I was there, we celebrated like our birthdays, we went to the Four Seasons, we did a whole spa thing. Like we had a really nice time. But what I noticed was when we weren't at the Four Seasons and at the spa, you did not wanna leave the condo.

And I was like, I didn't come all the way to Toronto to sit on your couch. I know. Like I never get out of my small town. Like I never go anywhere. I was like, let's go do something. Like let's go have lunch, like whatever. And you just like wanted to order in and you didn't really wanna leave. Mm-hmm. And the place was messier and I obviously wasn't drinking because I was pregnant.

Mm-hmm. And you were like getting a bottle of wine just for you, which I really didn't care if people wanted to drink around me when I couldn't because I was pregnant. I'm like, whatever. But I was like. Like even at the Four Seasons, you like got a bottle of Rose sent, like it was like every day. Yeah,

Heather: I know.

I was waiting for for you to say something I didn't want

Paige: you to, but I was like,

Heather: oh God,

Paige: I didn't, I didn't wanna say anything because I really think like, obviously you know that I know I'm sitting right here. You know what I'm seeing [01:08:00] and if you wanna talk about it, and I don't know if this is correct, but my idea around like changing behaviors mm-hmm.

Is you have to wanna do it. And maybe some of that is because I'm like a strength coach and a nutrition coach and stuff. Yeah. And just what I know about behavior change and what I've seen working with my clients. Mm-hmm. And I think it's probably even more so with addiction and stuff, no one is gonna be able to make you do anything.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige: I can't make anybody change their behavior unless that's something that they wanna change. And I think a lot of the time, like in my line of business, people wanna throw money at the problem and like. Hire a coach or something and hope the problem goes away. Yeah. And I'm very adamant to people that like, I am more than happy to support you, but I can't do the work for you.

Right, right. And I think that that was just kind of how I felt in that situation. And I think also I was pregnant and going through this huge life change and I was like, I can't take on Heather's addiction. [01:09:00] Yeah. All I could do was like, be there for you when you would like call me and be like, I need to find a way to stop drinking.

Mm-hmm. When you would text me, I need to get sober and then delete the text message. But I already saw it. Yeah. That I, that happened a few.

Heather: Did it happen twice? Maybe

Paige: there was one time that you said, I need to get sober. Yeah. And then the next day you texted me again when I saw it in the morning and you said, I'm actually not ready to talk about that yet.

Mm. So I left it. Yeah. Um, and then there's another time when you sent it and you unsent it. But I'd already read it before you unsent it. Yeah. Yeah.

Heather: I knew that. And you, you were like, I saw that

Paige: and I, yeah. Just kidding. I didn't know. And you were also like talking about doing like hypnotherapy for addiction.

I did. So there were things that you were doing that was in your way telling me that you needed to get sober. And I just remember telling you, listen, it's okay if you're not ready, but when you are ready we can talk about it. But I wasn't gonna make you talk about it. Yeah, yeah. Damn. And then you [01:10:00] really came to it on your own.

Heather: Well, I mean, eventually I'm like, I'm gonna die. Yeah. And I'm not gonna be able to see your baby and like all this shit. But I, that was rough. That whole trip was rough. 'cause I was like in such bad withdrawal the whole time. And that was me drinking light by the way. Like when you came for the bump party?

No, no, no. When you came to see me. Oh, yes, yes, yes. That was me drinking light. 'cause I was drinking three to four bottles of wine a day at that point. And I having one bottle of wine waiting till the end of the day. I was miserable. Pete. Yeah. I was fucking, I was not. I was so nauseous. I was mad. I was mad at you.

Like I was just Well, I could tell. Yeah, because you didn't wanna do anything. I didn't wanna do anything. I didn't wanna go outside. I also was so fat. So I was like, I'm not going outside. And I, and whatever that feeling is to anybody, like, to me being a in a bigger body is like the worst thing for me.

Yeah. Or it [01:11:00] was, yeah. It was the worst thing for me. And I didn't wanna go outside. I didn't wanna do anything. I didn't have any clothes that fit. I just wore that one acne oversized t-shirt dress the whole time. Oh yeah.

Paige: I love that T-shirt dress.

Heather: I know. I like it too. Um, and then it was your. Bump New Year's party.

Yeah, the bump party. And I don't know what the fuck compelled me to go, I think because I was like, oh, I have to be in her life. Yeah. And like this is the baby, so I have to be there for like the big moment.

Paige: Yeah. I wanted you to go. I was happy you came. Yeah. And then I was like, what the fuck? Like I showed up drunk.

It was kind of a jump scare a little bit. Well, 'cause Brendan came and picked you up from the train. Yeah. And I remember when he, I don't know if I ever told you this, but when he came home and like you went downstairs to the guest room and were like getting all set up, he looked at me and he's like, Heather smelled like wine when I picked her up.

Oh yeah. I was drinking like he was like, and obviously like. He knows you and would often be like joining our FaceTime conversations. Mm-hmm. And stuff. So [01:12:00] he was pretty aware of how much you were drinking too? Yeah. So he kind of had tabs on it, but he was like, she smelled like, and it was like 11:00 AM or something.

Yeah. It was early. And I was like, okay. And I could tell when I had visited you that time previous you had gained some weight. Like, fine, who cares? I don't. I don't care. Like if you weigh four pounds or 400 pounds. Mm-hmm. Like I really don't care. Whatever. If you're happy and you're taking care of yourself, that's fantastic.

But I noticed when you came then in January for that party, I was like, what is going on? Because you showed up and you were much bigger than I'd ever seen you in such and like it had happened quite rapidly. Yeah. Right. Which isn't healthy weight gain. Mm-hmm. And I know you and I know how you feel good in your body.

And I was like, that ain't it, like at all. And so that was kind of like. Okay. And you just, you didn't look like you were taking care of yourself. Yeah. You didn't look like you [01:13:00] were washing your hair regularly. You didn't. And I really like, I don't say that's to make you feel gross or hurt, hurt your feelings.

It's, but it was like you, you've always been someone who, like, if you're going somewhere, you're gonna like, do your hair, like put on like a little bit of mascara. Mm-hmm. Or like a blush and just like, you always present yourself a certain way. You're like a very put together person and you showed up and you were a disaster.

Yeah. And I was like,

Heather: I don't think I knew I was a disaster.

Paige: I was like, what is going on? Because that's when I was like, you're not taking care of like your basic needs clearly. And I was like, that's when I was worried for your health. Like before I was like, you're drinking too much and that's not good.

Yeah. That was when I was like, oh my God, you're gonna die. Yeah. If you don't get better. Yeah, for sure. I started getting to a point where I was like, you can't do this and make it to 45.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige: Right. Or if you do by some miracle, like you're not gonna be in good health and stuff. And I just was like, that's when I was like, [01:14:00] the train is off the tracks.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige: And I was worried and I was worried about having a baby and then I was like, am I gonna let Heather come hold my baby? Hammered.

Heather: You didn't think about that?

Paige: Yeah, for sure. But it wasn't like, I definitely wasn't thinking, oh, I'm gonna have to cut her off. Okay. That was never a thing because I, I think I had enough compassion and enough understanding of addiction to be like, there's something really wrong here and you're dealing with something.

Okay. So you knew I had an addiction For sure. I'd known that for like a long time at that point. Yeah. I'd say probably a couple of years. At that point I was like, oh, like this is an addiction issue. Mm-hmm. So I was never gonna not be there for you, but at the same time. I don't want a drunk person around my baby.

No. So it's not like I wasn't gonna see you or be there for you or support you, but I knew that there was gonna have to be a conversation at some point if you didn't get sober. I did not wanna have that conversation where if you were gonna be like, I wanna come see you. And I talked to my husband about that.

I was like, what am I gonna do? Mm-hmm. Like, I can't have [01:15:00] someone actively hammered around my baby. Like that's not like a healthy, safe environment. Yeah. You know? No. And so I was so happy when, very shortly after I had him mm-hmm. You called me and you're like, I'm gonna rehab next week. And I was like, fuck yeah.

Yeah. Was so good. I was so proud of you. And I thought that was so amazing. Mm-hmm. And just the way you committed yourself to that, like, now I'm gonna cry, like, I'm so grateful because when I saw you then after that and you were sober, I was like, I got my friend back. Because like I didn't know who you were for so long.

I still loved you, but I was like, like when you walked through my doors that one day I was like, who is this person? And then it was like, I got my friend back and I was so grateful and I'm like, oh my God, she's gonna be okay. And like I can sit down and I just felt like we could be us when we were 12.

[01:16:00] Yeah. That's really how I felt. And I was like, thank God for that. And it was just, fuck that. That was huge for me. Yeah. And huge for you. And I'm like honestly so proud of you. Like what a cool, amazing, very hard thing you've done.

Heather: No, I didn't actually realize like how much that affected you and like how happy you were when I got sober until right now.

Like I knew you were obviously, but like Yeah, it really, my life like stopped. You were a huge catalyst for me to get sober. Just 'cause your life was moving and you were happy. And I was like watching a happy person go on with their life without me. And, and then like, looking around and being like, it's not even just her, it's everybody.

Mm-hmm. You know? But with you, there's like always been something where I'm like, I, I can't like, let this friendship go and I never wanted to. I just was [01:17:00] like, I didn't have the capacity. I couldn't do anything, you know? Mm-hmm. And I'm so grateful that you like, gave me a chance and that you like stuck with me.

'cause fuck man. You totally could have just been like, honestly, this is too much. We like grew apart, whatever. But it's like really speaks to your character and our friendship. Yeah. And all that fucking trauma and everything you know about me.

Paige: And to your character, to your credit, because again, I don't want this whole podcast episode to be like, Heather sucks.

Like, I did kind, I did suck. I mean, we all do sometimes. Yeah. Like I, like I said, like I've done things that I was not proud of when I was in like bad places where I was drinking too much or I was very depressed, or I was in my, or I was anxious, whatever. Like, we've all done things and we have to be able to let go of that.

Mm-hmm. Or we truly, like, we truly cannot move forward. You can't do anything else good. Mm-hmm. And feel [01:18:00] truly good about it until you let go of that stuff. Yeah. So I don't want you beating yourself up over things. Like, even like every time it comes up you'll say, I'm sorry. And I'm like, for what? I know, like, like it's so done.

It's like beyond water, under the bridge at this point for me. And like it's, it's not keeping me up at night. I would hate for it to keep you up at night. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And like my original point being. You are a very good person. You're a very good friend. Like I said, you are the person who, you walk into a room and people pay attention.

And I think that is like just this beautiful quality to have. And like you're funny and you're ridiculous and you're completely unfiltered. And sometimes you say stuff and I'm like, good god, Heather, not the time. But I love that about you and that's why I am still here. And that's why I wanted to be there for you through all of this stuff.

Mm-hmm. Because I have so much love for you and you [01:19:00] have in a lot of ways been a really good friend to me. And when it really counted, you showed up. And for you to be the type of person who can take accountability and say, these are moments I'm not proud of and here's how I'm gonna make it better, is like so huge.

I think that's all we can ask. Mm-hmm. People in our lives. Yeah. Because people are gonna mess up and they're gonna hurt our feelings and they're going to mistreat us. Mm-hmm. But if. They can honestly say, this was my bad.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige: I'm gonna change this moving forward. And if you can both keep love through that, I'm like, yeah, that's it.

You know, like you're a really incredible person for being able to do all that, and I'm just very grateful that you got your shit together. Right. And you didn't die on me.

Heather: That was coming. Yeah. That was fucking coming. Damn. I love you so much. I love you. Do you have any, I mean, you touched on it a little bit, but do you have any advice for anyone that's in your position that has a [01:20:00] friend who's really fucking addicted to something or you think they are?

Mm-hmm.

Paige: I mean, I am far from a professional on this, so I don't know what I'm talking about, but speaking from my own experiences mm-hmm. I think all you can do is continue to let someone know mm-hmm. That you are there for them. And I mean, I know in some situations when. You have someone in your life who's an addict, maybe you can't stay too close to that person 'cause it's not healthy.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige: For you, yourself. And I think that is also very valid. Totally. But I think if you make sure that the person you love knows that, should they find themselves ready, you will be there and you will not pass judgment on them, and you are willing to forgive them and support them through getting better.

That's all you can really do. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, they have to make that decision. And when they do, they're really gonna need the support.

Heather: Yeah. [01:21:00] That's good advice because you were, you were there the whole time I was texting you from rehab. I was telling you what's going on. Oh yeah. I was getting all the tea, all the tea.

Well, do you wanna plug your business?

Paige: Sure. Mm-hmm. Oh my God. Cool. Um, yeah, we didn't really fully talk about that. So I'm a strength coach and a nutrition coach. Um, how do you think about this? That's pretty good. How you think? You got some bicep popping out there. See my arms, Pilates arm shaking when I travel.

We'll work on that. Thank you so much. Um, yeah, so I'm a, a strength coach and a nutrition coach. So my focus is mostly on strength training. Um, I do have a powerlifting team that I, uh, coach within the Ontario Power Lifting Association and the IPF, which is really cool. Mm-hmm. And I compete on myself, so for people who are into power lifting are interested in getting into it, that's an option.

But I deal with a lot of people who just wanna be strong and fit and healthy. Mm-hmm. And that is, what's it called? A [01:22:00] great thing to wanna be, uh, if you, uh, pagewood training and nutrition. So I'm on Instagram at pager kw. We'll link it. Yeah. And, uh, because you do online stuff too, right? Yes. Mostly online stuff.

So I do, I do some in-person training, but for the most part, I do online programming for, uh, nutrition and strength training. Perfect. And my powerlifting team is wood powerlifting co. So

Heather: Cool.

Paige: Get that up too.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige: So good.

Heather: Um, next time I come back here, which I think is October, we'll do an episode about transfer addiction into the fitness community.

Because I have so many question, I, so many, many questions. Yes.

Paige: Brendan and I were just talking about this. Yeah. Because I feel like so many people

Heather: get into fitness through addiction recovery or like depression or eating disorders and shit. Uhhuh.

Paige: So that'll be very, very interesting. Well, p your first podcast,

Heather: you fucking crushed it.

Paige: Thanks, Liz. Love you. Thank you for coming. I like, I'm so thanks for having me. I was so

Heather: scared. I mean it scary. I'm so proud of you.

Paige: I'm so proud of you. [01:23:00]

Heather: I'm proud of you guys.

Paige: Proud of you.

Heather: Bye.

Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Undrunk Podcast and or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com.

#GirlUndrunk #SobrietyJourney #AddictionRecovery #HealingIsNotLinear #SoberVoices #RecoveryPodcast #SoberCurious #EmotionalHealing #SpeakYourTruth #LifeWithoutAlcohol #WomenInRecovery #MentalHealthMatters #AlcoholFreeLife #SelfTrust #HealingOutLoud

Heather Chappell

#27: A Lot Of Tries (feat. Paige Wood)

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