#37: That Went Downhill Real Quick (feat. Toni Shelton / Collective Arts)

Dec 3

Heather and Zoe sit down with Collective Arts' VP of Brand & Strategy, Toni Shelton, for an inside look at how one of Canada's most creative beverage companies is navigating the future of drinking. Together, they unpack the rise of non-alcoholic options, why beer consumption is dropping globally, and how brands are adapting to a generation that wants moderation, wellness, and better ingredients. They also get into the realities of working in male-dominated industries, the pressure of innovation, and the business case for sober-inclusive spaces.

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That Went Downhill Real Quick Transcript

Heather: [00:00:00] This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening.

Hi everybody. Welcome back to Girl Undrunk. I'm Heather. I'm Zoey. And today we have a very special guest, Toni Shelton. Toni, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. How you doing? I am great. It's

Zoe: Friday. It's Friday.

Heather: Yeah. We're

Zoe: gonna have so much fun. We're gonna have so much

Heather: fun. No traffic.

That is a good

Toni: sign. Yeah. Nice drive in hanging out with girls that I think are awesome.

Heather: Like what? We're awesome. It's the best. It's literally the best. Oh, I'm so glad that you're a woman. Mm. We would still have you if you're a man, but it's really nice to talk to women in this room. I know. We haven't [00:01:00] had

Zoe: a straight man on the podcast and it's kind of a dilemma right now for us.

Like if you someone wants to come on needs a straight man and I'm like,

Heather: do we have him on? I'm like, have you kissed a man?

Zoe: Yeah. If he has kissed a man, then we can have him on. Yeah.

Heather: I

Toni: like, I like that as a guardrail.

Heather: Yeah. It's also like

Zoe: how we

Heather: date men. Yeah. Is the same way we like the Bye boys.

Zoe: It's just like safer.

Toni: And how does

Zoe: that,

Toni: how's the, what's the like retention on that? It is good.

Zoe: I had a feeling my boyfriend was bi. Yeah. And on gay pride, he, I was like, happy pride. And he was like, and then I said, oh, have you kissed a boy? And he said, yeah, actually I have twice. And I said, I thought so. No. Tell me everything.

I love that. Yeah. He said,

Heather: like, he said, yeah. And you were like, oh, when? And he said the first time and Yeah. First time.

Toni: Perfection. It's so funny that that's, that's like something that we want now as women. Yeah. Right. It's safer. Is safer.

Heather: Safer. It is.

Zoe: No, we're getting so passionate. I know it is.

Toni: Just on this topic.

Mm-hmm. I think it's so funny to make my [00:02:00] boyfriend feel demasculated. Of course. Like, like my latest thing is walking around the house singing a phrase like, hi, I am Steven, I love Dick. And he'll be like, that's not true. That's not fair. That's not true. I'm like, because it's funny. I just love saying it. Oh my.

It is funny. That's hilarious.

Heather: If they're gonna live in our homes. They have to the butt of the joke. Yeah, you, yeah. Take a

Zoe: joke. We know you're not, but like, what would be the problem if you like kiss a boy? Yeah. There would be no problem

Heather: if you have felt the warm and embraces of a man. You just have more empathy.

And that's true.

Zoe: At least I just like trust you a little bit more. Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, anyways, you

Heather: live with your boyfriend?

Zoe: I do.

Heather: How's that going?

Toni: It's great. We've lived together for five years. We've lived in Toronto. Oh, wow. He's from Toronto. I'm from a small town. I moved to Toronto. You guys have been together for a while?

Yes. But you know, it's interesting. You, uh, he's a lot older than me. Okay. He's turning 50 next year. Okay. Love this. You know, Hannah Burner. And did

Heather: you know about it when he told you his age? Was it actually I did actually.

Toni: He, he [00:03:00] disclosed his proper age to me. Perfect. Yeah.

Heather: Since That's good. How old are you?

I am 34. Okay. Mm-hmm. Well, I already have so many fucking questions, but first we should do a little mental health checkin. Yeah. Can we crack these? Let's crack these first then. Yeah. I need some cats. That's mine. Oh, sorry. Blueberry lemonade. Okay. So. Today again, we have Tony Shelton here. Toni what is your role at Collective Arts?

Toni: My title is VP of Brand and Strategy, which is just a big corporate name for like everything marketing and innovation. Right. I've been a kind of, uh, I always say I grew up with a, as a, like Collective Arts was a garage project when it first started, like for startup kind of. I, I've grown up with collectives like Bill Gates.

Wow. You know what exactly, like Bill Gates, just like Bill Gates. I was like, female Bill Gates. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've always said that about you.

Zoe: Uh, that's why we're friends. So when did Collective Arts start? How long ago was that? 2013. 2013. Wow. So 12 years, but just al but alcohol,

Toni: so yeah. Yeah. Started in [00:04:00] in beer first.

Yeah. And then I would say the non elk. Evolution happened probably five years ago. Okay, cool.

Heather: Okay. Yeah. Okay, let's crack 'em. Okay. So mine,

Toni: what's mine? Mine is, and these are, so these are a brand new energy drink that we just launched. They're better for you in the sense that they don't have any like synthetic mm-hmm.

Caffeine or any preservatives or, um, they're all under five grams of real sugar. And then we naturally sweeten them with monk fruit juice. Mm. Okay. We don't put trine in them, which is like, um, it's really contributes to a lot of the uplift you get in like a Red Bull or a monster. Okay. So, but instead we put Toine.

Yeah. It's like, it's not, it's a, another synthetic ingredient. Got it. But we use adaptogens instead of toine, so Shara and ginseng, which are really good for that same uplifting, energizing effect. Okay. So the real, the reality is we're trying to create something and it's also only 120 milligrams of caffeine.

Mm-hmm. Whereas Red Bull and Monster would go up to like 140 or even 180 in some cases. So it's try to be moderate. [00:05:00] Yeah. In a energy drink. Yeah. So that's where I, I do think it's interesting when you talk about moderation and what the trends are happening in alcohol and non and moderation, but they're also happening in other categories like energy drinks.

Yeah, exactly. Where people are actually a little bit more healthier. Exactly. Like it's just how can I still have the my cake and eat it too? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, and so that's what, these are really the, the, the problem these are trying to solve.

Heather: Right.

Zoe: Okay.

Heather: I love it.

Zoe: And the art on them is so, it's so good fun.

Heather: Okay. Mine's blueberry. Lemonade. What do you have?

Zoe: I have prickly paired grapefruit. I think you would hate mine. Just 'cause you hate grapefruit.

Heather: I do hate grapefruit. Yeah.

Zoe: What's yours? This is strawberry

Toni: lemonade. How many are there? There's six flavors. Oh my god. Fun. Each has a different fun artist. Okay. Oh, sorry.

Are we cheersing without cheers Eyes? I didn't either. So many. Cheers. Cheer.

Heather: So sacrilegious. And I'm very bi. The Bible here. Oh my God, this is so good. It's

Zoe: really

Heather: good That just like.

Zoe: That just gives my whole love, I love an explosion that it doesn't taste like chemicals. No, it

Toni: doesn't taste like chemicals.

No, that's [00:06:00] great. Yeah. I

Zoe: I, it just tastes like a juice. Do you wanna try mine? Yeah, I wanna try this one. You can

Heather: try. Thank you. No, no. You can do it. I don't find it that creep fruit forward. She's gonna Oh no, that's great. You like it? No, that's great. Yeah. Okay. I just don't love to look at a grapefruit and when I see drinks that have grapefruits, I think about the grapefruit.

Why don't you like a look at a grapefruit? I find it a little bit, I really like mine. I find it a little bit monstrous, a grapefruit. It's like too big. And I think that makes me nervous. Yeah. I don't know. I've never thought, I've never been asked. I like a

Zoe: grapefruit because it has like the. Ooh. Taste after, which I liked about alcohol.

You knows. So I think that's what like you like about alcohol. It's the only thing, it was just the taste really. Well that's just one of the aspects, but it like reminds me of taking a shot I think. Like drinking something like that. Yep. Well that's why I take the ginger shots and that's why we take the ginger shots.

Heather: Yeah. Do you wanna start with your mentee?

Zoe: How's your mentee? My [00:07:00] mental health is good compared to, we just recorded a podcast five hours ago, four hours ago. I don't know. I dunno. Um, but at that point I was a four oh feel, and honestly I'm feeling like a six already. I feel. That's exactly right. I feel really.

Proud of myself already. I went to Gold Standard during our little 30 minute break and they gave me a gold star with my breakfast sandwich, like literally a sticker. And I gave it to Heather 'cause I love her so much. And I was like, that's just what I needed. Yeah. That's like a little pick me up telling me that I'm doing a good job.

Mm-hmm. And it's cheesy and tacky, but No, that's, it's, it kind of like made my day. I know always little things.

Heather: I love that.

Zoe: And you're so fun and cool, and I'm really excited to talk to you. Yeah, me too. Um, so yeah, I feel like I bumped myself up to a six already. I love that already. How are you?

Heather: Good. I, uh, I need to have someone come in and streamline things for me because it scares, it hurts my brain and then I'm like, oh my God, everyone's depending on me and everybody hates me.

But I'm [00:08:00] really working on that. Um, honestly, I'm excited, so I feel like I am actually at an eight now. Oh, I love a sober chat. Bump up. I love sober girls. I love sober shit. I love talking about drinking. I love, I'm so excited to learn more about And the skills a 10, right?

Zoe: The scale. A 10. The skills a 10. I mean, if you're being crazy, you wanna give yourself an 11, that would be fine.

Heather: Okay. Yeah. Okay. How's your mental health tones. I like that you call me tones already jumped right in. We're already friends.

Toni: That's a, that's not, that's a, that's a, a nickname that I would definitely have. Yeah.

Heather: I like a nickname. It makes me feel safe.

Toni: Yeah. I love, I love, I love when someone calls me a nickname.

Right. It just, yeah. I'm like, oh, we're good. Yeah. Yeah. We're close. We're good. Um, I would say good. I am the type of person who overthinks and, you know, I, I hate to reference Mel Robbins. Mm. But it's alright. She does this thing, you know, the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 thing. Yes. And I'm like, I just have to

Heather: feel the, feel the fear and do it anyway.

Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, I, do you wanna explain the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 thing? Just

Toni: like the whole, like just stop, think, just do it. Yeah. And stop thinking about it and ruminating. I tend to like. Build every [00:09:00] single thing that I have to do up in my head. Mm-hmm. And then I just ruminate about them constantly. Like, I have to drive to the brewery, then I have to Dr.

Pick up the stuff, and then I have to drive to Toronto and then I have to make sure I'm prepared. And then like, oh my God, I don't even actually wanna do any of this. Right. Like, it's too overwhelming. Maybe I should cancel. You can't cancel. That's to be awful. Like these two amazing girls are doing this thing.

You got this, get there. Um, plus then there's like the work and the team and the life, and my dad's not in the hospital, and so it's just like, sorry. Um, but all of that to be said, getting here and being social also. Mm-hmm. When I'm in that vibe, I tend to, um, retreat and not want to be around other people.

Mm-hmm. And just like, okay, I gotta focus on, I'm very like one of those people that needs productivity equals worth. Mm-hmm. So like. If I get through that and then I'm like, oh, I'm just here to socialize and like hang out with, to your point. Mm-hmm. Like I get very energized by just hanging out with people that I think are really cool.

Mm-hmm. Um, but I don't remind myself that enough that how good it is for my soul. So I would say, [00:10:00] um, it's been a rough week, but my mental health is in a good place because I'm able to like the things, walk myself through all of that and then get here. And then once I'm here I'm like, fucking, let's go.

Yeah. Yeah.

Heather: I know. You just have to like get to the checkpoint and you're like, I'm gonna have fun when I get there. But the anticipation of of it all, yeah. Like it's way worse. Honestly, I feel

Zoe: like I'm not an overthinker. You definitely are. How dare you dare How dare. Come on. I can say that it's true. It's very true.

But yeah, I don't know. I don't know why I don't overthink as much. I know. Brain cells, babe. That's

Toni: probably true. To be honest. I always ask my boyfriend if he has his marbles with him.

Heather: That's nice. Does, did you bring your marbles with you today? Did you bring your thingy? Are they at home? Are they at home?

You left them. You love you to lose them? You're a little boy. You gotta bring

Toni: those marbles. Little 50-year-old boy, boy, that's hot. That is hot. That's hot.

Zoe: Have you always been like that? Like an overthinker? And I think I, I've always been Has it been de debilitating

Toni: at all, or? Yes, but [00:11:00] I think, um, I think I was like super naive and ignorant to my, mm-hmm.

To mental health in general until probably seven years ago when I started to actually become more self, self-aware about myself and who I am. And were you becoming

Heather: more mental?

Toni: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So like I feel fully in touch with that now and I can control it and that's, yeah.

Heather: Okay. That's great. Podcast over, she's cured.

Toni: No, definitely not therapy. Just like therapy. Yeah. And learning, just honestly learning to be, um, to like have perspective and altitude on your life has been really helpful. Amazing. What's your

Zoe: number?

Toni: Hmm. Nah. Eight, eight.

Zoe: Eight.

Heather: Nah. Eight. Oh, I like it. I like an eight. Okay. Love an eight. Perfect.

Toni: I'm like you, I don't like to not be, I think you said this earlier, like, I want, I wanna do things I like.

Yeah. And I don't like when I'm not happy.

Heather: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like,

Toni: it sounds crazy to say like, you don't like when you're not happy. Most people would say that, but like, I'm not comfortable if I'm not having, if I'm not enjoying enjoying it. Mm-hmm. I'm [00:12:00] not, I'm out.

Heather: Yeah. I know. And I think especially, I'm sure you have this too, just on like meeting you, it's like I know that my potential in a social situation, I am so good, but if I'm not fucking feeling it, I'm gonna be misery I can.

Mm-hmm. And do you

Toni: find that when you're, now I'm gonna interview you. Of course. Do you find that when you're, um, in those settings, like if you are not yourself, like you're, it's way more noticeable. People are like, what's wrong, something's wrong. And you're like, I actually just, that's not helpful.

Heather: Yes. I do, I think I go the other way though.

I think when I'm not comfy, I get real manic. Yeah. And annoying. And it's, I get, uh, she gets

Zoe: more energized. Yes. Oh, got it. Yeah. And then, and acts more. And

Heather: then I come home and I have no idea what happened. Yeah. And I'm like, I black out in like a manic, that's also what I do on dates, but we're learning, we aren't growing.

My therapist was like, what if you just, she's like, I think you're great. What if you just took it down 20%? Mm-hmm. Like 20%. That's crazy. I said, okay. But, but yeah. So no, I, uh, yeah, I go the other way, but it's [00:13:00] very similar. Yeah. If not comfy. My body's weird. I'm weird's not great. No. You're from? Where are you from here?

Toni: I'm from a small town in Ontario.

Heather: Okay.

Zoe: What's it called?

Toni: It's called Caledonia. Oh, it's outside of Hamilton.

Zoe: Caledonia. I've heard of that. Is there a ski hill over there? No. Nope. That's Calabogie Hills. Yes.

Toni: Calabogie

Zoe: like Ottawa. Is that a made up board? It's Calabogie. Yeah. There's making shit up here.

Callon.

Heather: Oh, I know. There's so many small towns outside of Toronto that I'm like, oh my God, people live here. This is so nice.

Toni: There's towns. You got a church. Love a church. There's a lot of churches and a lot of cattle. Love livestock. I get to, I watch, I drive by cows and, and p uh, pigs in the morning. Do you go cows?

I go, I wanna stop and pet them. I know, I know. They're so pretty. And then I'm like, I've honestly thought if I pull over and just like. Say hi. Like is the farmer gonna say something like, no. What was he gonna say? No, she's enjoying herself. Yeah. Farmer will probably

Heather: love

Toni: it. Don't touch the cows. You pervert.

That's why I'm like,

Heather: who cares if I touch your cow? Yeah, they would love it. I think. I think you should do it and then report [00:14:00] back. I'll let you know on your way home today. Thank you so much. Deal. Here's the first question since we're drinking it. Okay. Why are we switching into or adding energy drinks?

What is the thought motivation behind that?

Toni: So, collective arts, as I mentioned, was we started in 2013. Mm-hmm. As a brewery, our brand. The way we work is basically, we like to say we're the curating the world's most refreshing art gallery. So we have an open, wow. We have an open call for art. Anyone can submit to our call for art from anywhere in the world at any point.

Ooh. We get, uh, curators to come and help us choose what, what work we, we put on our labels, and then we, we license the, we pay for the art and license it mm-hmm. To to you. So it's very like artist friendly program. Wow. So artists can kind of submit to us work that they've already done and not have to do, like, spec work.

Um, so that was, we've built this kind of creative brand platform. So I think the numbers are, you know, we've, we've had like 40,000 submissions. We featured almost 3000 artists. Wow. We've had like 40 artists from 40 different [00:15:00] countries. I remember one time we had someone submit from Iran, and I was just like, how do you know about this random craft brewery from Hamilton, Ontario?

That's so cool. Yeah. So the, the point of that is that. Collective Arts built this brand platform that was really suited to millennials, but also to the up and coming Gen Z consumers, just in the sense of constant creativity, constant innovation, um, approachable, accessible for everyone, come as you are kind of thing.

This like community, community that collaborates over creativity and amazing drinks.

Heather: Yeah.

Toni: Um, so as we grew and obviously as the market, people are drinking less, um, they're drinking less. Beer mm-hmm. In particular, you, we look and say, well, what's the future of collective arts? Mm-hmm. Like if we're only beer cider, we're, we are beer cider spirits and kind of co canned cocktails.

Mm-hmm. And you look at our brand platform and it's like you're really geared to this Gen Z population and millennials who are all drinking less alcohol. Um, and so where most companies would [00:16:00] say, well, you're not gonna jump into a random other category. Collective Arts has this brand platform that allows us to do that because everything's rooted back into creating, um, amazing drinks that are rooted in creativity and working with artists.

So then we look at the, um, the trends and where we fit most. And the first foray was non-alcoholic beer, obviously. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, because there's not a lot of good non-alcoholic beer on the market, it all tastes kind of like crap.

Heather: Mm-hmm. Well, our flowers, we had an IPA yesterday that tasted like flowers.

It wasn't the greatest. I hated it.

Toni: Flowers. Yeah. Like, I mean, that could in theory be fine. It's just you don't really want your beard to taste like flowers. Yeah. Um. It was shocking.

Zoe: Yeah. You really didn't like it.

Toni: No. It's really hard to

Zoe: get non elk beer. Good. That's the problem. Like it's so cool how they are responding to the space instead of like.

Saying no to the space, be open to it, you know, be open to change. And I think that's what more companies need, you know? Yeah. To be more open to this change of the world. Be [00:17:00] more you non-alcoholic. You guys

Heather: see a dip in the market, in the alcohol market. You did? Mm-hmm. Okay. Oh, definitely.

Zoe: Yeah, because

Heather: that's what I'm wondering.

I'm like, yeah, I, I know the rhetoric is that people are drinking less, but what are the stats? Mm-hmm. So you are seeing it.

Toni: Yeah. I don't know the, the actual stats off the top of my head, but beer is down globally, like all beer is down. Um, at one point, you know, there's probably some. Data that shows a lot of beer drinkers are converting to the white claws and the seltzers.

And the canned cocktails got, got it. So maybe some of the volume is being made up over there. It's also stronger alcohol in those, right? Mm-hmm. It is. Yep. Um, and their money goes further. Like there's also the, the, um, the economy component too of like how much people are willing to spend. So they're probably spending less on, you know, the nice to haves and more on the need to haves on the alcohol side, you know, like better bang for your buck, more elk, less quality ingredients kind of thing.

Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, there's definitely a dip in beer. Interesting. But like, luckily, luckily for us, we've still maintained a top position in LCBO for in our in beer, which [00:18:00] is obviously kudos to the quality of the product that we make in our loyalists in Ontario, but. We, so it started with non elk beer and then zero proof cocktails.

Um, just because those two things go really well together. Yeah. And then the next foray was like functional wellness drinks. Um, we had

Zoe: one of those like maybe a couple weeks ago here. Yes.

Toni: I loved those. The, was it like the botany Elixia? Yes. I loved those. Amazing. Me too. So that was like our first get, dipping our toes into that functional wellness space.

Mm-hmm. And then, um, and then we, we really like. We, we are really close with, um, retailers as we're trying to get listings and the big gap for retailers in the US and in Canada was like, we need a better for you energy drink. Mm-hmm. They really loved the elixirs, but they wanted one that was like really focused on energy.

Um, and so in, instead of just creating another flaker like elixir that was really high in caffeine mm-hmm. We, we decided to really lean into that space. Yeah. Noticing that there really hasn't been anyone that's trying to, there's [00:19:00] Alanni new. Mm-hmm. Alanni new is, has tried it. There's, you know, some good things they've done.

And then the lick for me, it's just like the liquid doesn't hit, um, it's still got sucralose in it, which I try to avoid for the most part. Like any fake. Any fake, it's like a fake sweetener. Right. Anything that's like synthetic I would try to avoid. Mm-hmm. Um, and so that's where, that's kind of where Botany Energy came to life.

And, uh, we are now rolling out these six flavors across all seven elevens in Ontario or in Canada. Yay. So yeah, I think it's just the evolution of like, going from just maintaining our brand ethos and our values of like creativity. Mm-hmm. High quality and seeing what our consumers and what the gaps in the markets are and, and.

There's been a lot of naysayers to your point of like a lot of brands maybe don't make that change. Mm-hmm. Or aren't willing to jump. Yeah. A lot of people are like, you guys are crazy. Like, yeah, you, good luck in the energy drink space. Good luck competing with Red Bull. And that's true. But I think it just, it takes, someone has, someone has to [00:20:00] do, someone has to do it.

And I

Zoe: go to seven 11 every Wednesday before my meeting, I usually grab a Red Bull because there's no other options. I don't wanna grab a Red Bull because I know it's not great for me. Of course. So I'm gonna be excited to see that. Amazing. In a couple weeks.

Heather: Yeah. I was also thinking that I, there's one kid in my head.

In our ninth grade math class, I was not paying attention. So I was just watching him every morning. He would drink, um, one of the big monster energy drinks. And back then I was like, you're gonna die. Know worries now. Like, we'll go to rehab, tell everyone like, you

Toni: can

Heather: have a heart

Toni: attack

Heather: if you drink that, don't you like that?

But if he's going to seven 11 in the morning and his mom like, has seen this and he's like, oh. She's like, oh yeah, don't get a fucking monster. Get a collective arts. Like, yeah, yeah, do that. Or like if it's, it's like accessibility, right? And kids are, kids don't know shit about, fuck. Yeah. So it's like, I mean, neither do we really, but No, I mean, it's such a good.

And I love the

Zoe: art around it. That's so cool that you guys do that for artists.

Toni: Yeah, we, we've, it's honestly like when, if you, whenever anyone that says, you know, what's the best part of your job? [00:21:00] It is like, I literally get to look at a screen that's full of art most days. Like it's pretty awesome.

Heather: And are you looking for something specific with the art?

If people wanna submit, is it like, are there themes? Are there, what's the buy question? It it depends. It it depends. Sometimes like you really needed though, did

by the way, a great job.

Toni: Um. Yes, the answer is yes and no. Um, so it depends kind of on the product line. Like our beers we have like, it's very much like we take what, what we can get and then we match it to kind of the color profiles for body energy. We, we are specifically looking to make sure like we hit a certain vibe and tone and manner and everything.

'cause energy is energy. Yeah. Um. So we, we kind of, we have a built in network now with our artists, so we kind of just went back and forth with them a bit. We plan to like, you know, we rotate our art, so, you know, next time you go to pick up a blue, uh, blueberry lemonade, [00:22:00] you, you know, energy drink like in a few months, maybe six months from now will change it up.

So it's a different experience.

Heather: Okay. I like that you give more artists on platforms. Yeah. And are the artists working artists, or is it, like, does, are they, do they have to be established? Is there It could be anybody. It,

Toni: yeah, it could be anybody.

Zoe: Yeah. I like that. My friend's a tattoo artist and she said that she was tattooing someone like the other week and.

They got their art submitted by, um, collective Arts. Amazing.

Toni: Yeah. Yeah. We've had a, we have a lot of tattoo artists who submit their work, and then we also work with tattoo artists on like events. They'll come and pop up. We even like sponsored the Boston Tattoo Convention. Oh, so cool. Boston. My Boston, uh, Boston's just, I Boston's my favorite city in, is it?

Oh my gosh.

Heather: Why? When have you worked?

Toni: Um, so collective art, we just, we sell our products probably in about. 20 different states. Mm-hmm. Um, and Boston was just one of the first cities we ever states we launched in. I just think Boston, I'm from, I'm, I mostly tell people I'm from Hamilton, even though I just told [00:23:00] you I'm from Cal.

Mm-hmm. Caledonia. Oh, she's a liar. I'm a liar. Ah. 'cause people dunno what Caledonia is. Mm-hmm. Sorry. Everyone who's from Caledonia, but they know, they know. Everyone's like, we're from south of Hamilton. Anyways, Boston reminds me of Hamilton in that it's like gritty. Um, I just think the people are fun. I love, I don't know, it gives me just like humble.

Yeah. Fun kind of. Boston is blue collar vibes

Heather: Boston? Mm. Yeah. Boston is history. I used to live, I went to school in Boston. Ugh. So I do like it, but it was very school focused for me and I was like very mentally ill at the time. So I didn't love Boston in the way that I, yeah. Got it. Know I could love Boston.

Zoe: Okay. Yeah. It would be interesting for you to go back to Boston, right? 'cause you haven't been back. Yeah.

Heather: Yeah,

Zoe: I have. It's, we've never gone. So we'll probably do a trip to Boston. Go to Boston. Let's go to Boston. Boston.

Heather: Great. Jillian, Jillian car are you in?

We should put her in different locations in the house. Yes. Yes.

Toni: Jillian's just lying on the net.

Heather: Yeah. Yeah. Feel free, feel free. Um, you said something about, yeah, so not a lot of people [00:24:00] are doing this kind of like. Good for you. Energy drink. How competitive is the space? Actually, not even just for energy drinks, but for non-A stuff.

Yeah. Is it a competitive space?

Toni: Yes. Very competitive. I think everyone thinks that they can start a beverage brand. Um mm-hmm. Yeah. Just because, and so I think the learning for us is that when I working, working in Bev Elk is one set of customers and one set of processes and one set of regulations. And then when you shift over to non elk, it's like a whole new world.

And there, so there's new buyers, there's new processes. It's a lot more, it's a lot different. 'cause it's like non, it's a non less regulated space than alcohol. Right? Or it's more of like a consumer packaged goods type of interesting process. So it's just, so, it's more of like the, the competitiveness there is just, you know, having the.

The, um, the process, the, the relationships, um, learning how to work, like, I think it's [00:25:00] a, a privilege that I have that I've been able to work in Bev Elk cannabis and now CPG to work across like three entirely different industries. With one company, you've done it all. I've learned so much, but like it's so different like working with like a massive Loblaws compared to Yeah.

Right. Just 'cause, just because of the way they operate. Mm-hmm. And so when I think about how competitive it is, that's like one of the areas of like, you know, there's a lot of people in non elk who know who've got a well oiled machine mm-hmm. Where kind of like the craft brewery who could. Um, and so there's a lot of naysayers in terms of like, good luck guys.

Like this is not craft beer. Like you're in the playing in the real. Big leagues now kind of thing. Right. Interesting. Um, so it's been, it's been a lot of learning, but it's highly competitive, which is great. I am ambitious. Yeah. And I love to compete. Mm-hmm.

Heather: I don't know anything about like sales or business, but is

Toni: not true.

Heather: there, but like, in terms of like other people, like is it a welcoming space? Like do you find like people mm-hmm [00:26:00] are like, oh, another non elk brand or another non elk thing, let's chat about it on Instagram. Or is it like, fuck off, you stay over there?

Toni: I would say, say you stay in Caledonia, say still

Heather: back

Toni: home.

Yeah. I would say that it is a little bit more competitive that way than craft beer. Like craft beer. Okay. That's interesting.

Zoe: I didn't think it would be, yeah, I know. I'm surprised by this. It's a little bit

Toni: more cutthroat, I would say. Like it's about. People, people in in energy drink space would probably play a little dirtier than maybe in beer.

Okay. Can't, I shouldn't confirm that, but like, that's my sense is craft beer is a lot because we were more of a movement. Mm-hmm. And everyone wanted all of craft beer to succeed and just, you know, get the multinationals out of the way, because together, if we all win, they lose. Right. Basically it's a little bit different of a landscape in the non elk and the energy drink space.

Mm-hmm. 'cause everyone, it's not, I'm not, I'm not competing with, you know, um, bandit Brewery or Mascot. I'm competing with Red [00:27:00] Bull. Mm-hmm. So it's like less of like a community rah atmosphere and more of a, that was my shelf space and you're taking it and that's my number and I get bonused on that number, so I'm gonna figure out every way to get that off that shelf.

Isn't

Zoe: that strange? Is it a lot like male dominated space compared to alcohol, would you say? Or? I would say, I think

Toni: I, I've only started kind of going to like industry events. Mm-hmm. In convenience, in the convenience industry, in the grocery industry as of lately. A grocery

Heather: event. Yes. Oh my God. You get free sies of groceries.

Oh, you

Toni: would? Maybe a little to bag. You

Zoe: get, I need so much food. We gotta go to the events guys. I got, I've got,

Toni: I've got a hot tip on this. Perfect. There are this, there's this trade show. They're all of these CPG trade shows. Everyone brings their wares. Pause. What's

Heather: CBG,

Toni: sorry. CPG. Consumer packaged goods.

Okay.

Heather: Consumer packaged goods.

Toni: Yes. Sorry. We

Heather: just nodded As if we knew exactly. I love what going on.

Toni: I bad. [00:28:00] I say call me out on. Um, so my first, uh, trade show that I did for, uh, like consumer packaged goods, so it's like, it's the people that are selling, like there was an egg stand, like a wow, you know, a trade show.

Everyone brings their like 10 by 10 booth and mm-hmm. There's just, the egg stand was fascinating to me. Mm-hmm. Because like here I spend like, you know, thousands of dollars making this beautiful LightUp display and having make hands all displayed and print material and the egg guy. Brought his carton of eggs, sat on the table and like hallelujah off to the races.

I was like, oh man, that's not the big, a big grind. Yeah. Maybe I should be in the egg business, egg industry. I honestly go, it doesn't seem like the cost of marketing and selling is that high. Yeah. Yeah. But I

Heather: think you have to get up like really early and get the eggs. I mean, you wake up really early, you have to get the basket, you have to go outside.

Yeah. You have to go outside and feed those chickens.

Zoe: Rubber boots probably. Yeah. It could be a cute outfit. I know. I literally was just thinking that I would need a rubber boot. Um, [00:29:00] perfect.

Toni: That, but I, where I was going is I recently attended a convenience channel. Um. Trade show and I was like, oh yeah, okay.

It's mostly men. Oh, just like beer. Okay. I was like, okay. So yeah, there's the odd female. Mm-hmm. That's like driving the bus, but for the most part it's men in their blue collared shirts and white collared shirts and their stupid suits.

Zoe: Yeah. So, so both faces are very much men. Uhhuh uhhuh. Yeah. That's, I figured, I mean,

Heather: everything, this space is very much male too.

It's the pod, the pods of all Yeah. What spaces

Toni: aren't beauty. Yeah. But

Heather: then I go, I think that they even still,

Toni: I know, I think they're probably in doing by the

Heather: men. They're the rea men are the reason we have to try so hard to be beautiful and why we have to buy such expensive every, they're all men at the top of all these like skincare brands.

Yeah, that's true. And like, you don't give a shit about my face. You just wanna make money. That's true. Which is. Also kind of interesting when it comes to the non-A stuff and it being so competitive and being like, no, that get off the shelf, like, this is for [00:30:00] Red Bull, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

What is everyone's intention when they're making non-alcoholic stuff? Because yeah, red Bull has nothing to do with anybody except it's just like to get people like this. Yeah. I, I'm assuming making the switch, actually I'll ask you. Making the switch or adding in non alc, what was the, what was the motivation involved?

Are you, were you thinking about. Sober people, people who don't drink pregnant people like children.

Toni: What is that? What were you like thinking? So I think for me, when I look at where the trends are and what consumers are looking for a, they're looking for products that are more than just an item on a shelf.

Mm-hmm. Like, they want to spend their money on things that they think are gonna better their lives, things that relate to their values. And so that's why I think collective arts does resonate really well with consumers. And so I think when we look at why we get into non elk, it's really that consumers are looking for options, right?

Mm-hmm. So it's like they're not just looking for, [00:31:00] they're, it's like most people live in the gray. Like they're of course, if they're, you know, abstaining from all alcohol, they're living a little less in the gray. Mm-hmm. But there's a lot of people who will, are just simply trying to cut back. Yeah. Right.

Um, or create more moderation in their life and in mm-hmm. Whatever sense it is. So I think for us, when we approach it, it's how do we create. The right options for ev, for everyone to be able to have and engage with our brand still. Mm-hmm. Because we know that there's a lot of people who love what we do and what we stand for and the creativity we bring.

And so now how do we, what are the right segments or categories for us to bring that brand to life in? Um, whether it's energy, non elk, beer, and, and so there's like, you know, the, the marketing rule book would say like, don't, if you're targeting everyone, you're not targeting anyone at all. Mm-hmm. So that's like, that's what you try to not be Okay.

Um, but it's really, but the collective arts is really this like kind of. Ever changing global, like eco chamber Yeah. Of creativity. So you do relate to a lot of, and engage with a [00:32:00] lot of different types of consumers. So that's a long rambling answer, but I think the, the moral reason behind it is just how do you, there's not a lot of good options Yeah.

For people who are looking to moderate. Yeah. Um, and then for what there i what brands that do have good tasting options, they might fall flat on the brand side or on their, why they exist or their purpose in life. Right. And so I think, you know, that's really where we saw the opportunity.

Heather: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And for me, like when there's women involved, I'm like, fuck yeah, let's go.

Yeah. Like it is, and I, it's important. I assume most women feel like that.

Toni: Think so. And then if they don't, that's where I'm like confused and I have lots of questions. Yeah. Yeah.

Heather: And we go, oh dear, you're brainwashed.

Toni: Even I was saying like my dad was just in the hospital and my, one of my friends was like looking around and he was like, Toni look around at the hospital.

Most of the doctors in this room are actually female. Mm-hmm. Your dad is in good hands. A hundred percent. Yeah. And I was like, my God, that's such a good, such a relief that [00:33:00] came from a van. Oh my God. Like that came from my dad's best friend. And he was like, you know, I look around that room and I think the, that's the best hospital.

Mm-hmm. For that, and you're surrounded by like top female doctors. Mm-hmm. There doesn't get better than that. And I was like, oh

Heather: my God. Yeah.

Toni: Thank you. Also. And for like a 65-year-old man saying that, I love that. Like, fuck yeah.

Heather: Oh, I, I know. They'll probably even ask him like, how are you today? Do you need anything?

What's happening on, yeah. We'll

Zoe: even ask about it. Yeah. You okay?

Heather: Yeah. Yeah.

Zoe: It seems like Collective Arts has always been like such an inclusive brand and it, I think that just makes sense that you guys. Are did hop on this bag bandwagon so fast of like non elk and energy drinks and just trying to make everyone feel so included.

Mm-hmm. Um, so it makes sense for the brand, right?

Heather: Yeah, yeah,

Toni: yeah. It really does. I think that's why. Like we've built such a great community of loyalists and people who come back to us and they trust us to put out good stuff. And yeah, I think it's just the creativity brand, platform and the [00:34:00] community that we've built have allowed us to be able to expand into these other segments.

Zoe: Talking about community, have you guys done any like non elk, like parties or anything like that? Sort of space. Should we and should we do something we love a party.

Toni: Yes. The answer is yes. We, um, when we first launched, we started doing like sober speakeasies at our, um Oh, fun. Okay. At our Toronto tap room.

I would say we don't do enough of them lately, but Yeah. You know, moving into now with like the launch of Bonnie Energy mm-hmm. We will be doing so many more. Like really my goal is to be able to bring the excitement and the experience that most consumers have experienced collective arts with on the alcohol side.

Yeah. And bring that to non elk because that's what's missing. Right. Love that. It's like, we wanna go and party with a fricking awesome DJ and live art. Yeah. And, but we also don't wanna have to feel like we're not participating fully because we're not drinking. Yeah. I, I was talking, I forget I was talking to you this about, but I think probably Jillian, I think for me, probably Jillian, the, [00:35:00] the, the sweet spot for me is trying, is not promoting events as sober events.

Yeah. Like. I don't know about you guys, but like, I don't, when I think about going out, I'm not, and not drinking. I'm not like, I don't want to go somewhere. We're all just sitting around and not, and talking about how we don't drink. Yeah. Like let's actually talk about, and there's a time and a place for that.

Yeah. '

Heather: cause I personally, I love that,

Toni: but Sure. I was gonna say even like sober inclusive is

Zoe: something that maybe like not a sober event. I don't know. It is a little bit, I get that what you're saying. Yeah, I do too. Yeah. Um, because I still go out. With pe, with everyone who still drinks. But if it's has sober options, like I went to a event earlier in the summer and it was sponsored by White Claw and I was like so excited to go there and like I really wanted to diet Coke or something like fun to drink.

They had nothing for sober people, just water. And I was so disappointed. And that's actually, and I ended up leaving to go to the convenience store to get a Diet Coke and I was like, I have to bring this in. Like, you guys don't have [00:36:00] anything. Yeah. Except for water. I'm bringing this in. They're like, yeah, okay.

Um, but I think it's just to have the options. When I'm going out to drink something other than water, and yeah. I don't wanna drink a diet Coke. I wanna drink something fun. You know? Yeah.

Heather: Yeah. And the other thing too is for me, most of the time, and especially now of course, like as long as I have something in my hand, I feel good.

We went out last night, it was like people we didn't know, we got a little gross IPA, and we were like, okay, I'm good to go. Yeah. But I do think sometimes it's hard for people, and I, I've heard this mostly from men, when they go to a party, they don't wanna be holding a Coke. Mm-hmm. And everyone else is holding a beer.

It's so obvious and people ask

Toni: them about it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Why are you drinking?

Heather: Yeah. Yeah. And personally, I love that question because I love to talk about sobriety and myself all day long. Mm-hmm. Hence the pod. But I think sometimes it's like a shame feeling still you. Yeah. Again, you don't want them to ask you about it.

Yeah. So this. Is like, great. No one would know. You'd have to get so close to it to be like,

Toni: yeah, exactly.

Heather: Is this an alcohol? [00:37:00] That's another point. Yeah. That's good. I think this is good for the men.

Toni: Totally. I, I just grew up with family and friends who like, don't know how to live a day without drinking. And so it's just constantly like, do you wanna drink?

Do you wanna drink? Let's have a drink, let's do this. And also have a drink. And I'm like, I physically won't be able to keep moving through life as I am. Yeah. If I do all that's, keep having a drink, I don't, I'm not even interested. Yeah. Um, but I'm already, I'm good. I already have something like, just, just shut them up.

Yeah. Like, I'm good. I've got some so I don't have to deal with it.

Heather: Especially if it gives you a little zing, right? Mm-hmm. It's all you kind of need and you're like, I'm good to go.

Toni: That's the space I'm very interested in. Like there is an a, a real world out there where, and I think we'll start to see it here in the next couple years, where you'll start to see things added to drinks that are meant to replicate an alcohol experience that are like natural, like adaptogens, like

Heather: mm-hmm.

There's a word that we know about. There's a word that's like, it gives you a high freedom. Yeah. Mm. Yes. There's that and something

Toni: else. [00:38:00] What is that? Oh, God. Freedom. It's, it's, it's a drug. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It is a drug. It's a drug. Is it a natural

Zoe: thing? It's, they say it's natural, but it's not like i's so that get enough on it.

Okay. Okay. You can

Heather: get addicted to it still. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. This is, there was an energy drink with that. People getting addicted. Right, right, right.

Toni: Okay. But then there's things like terpenes and like, okay, the bad example is so. I know I used to work, I used to work in a cannabis, we used to make cannabis beverages.

Mm-hmm. And so, and one of the things that I was really interested in is the efficacy of the cannabis drinks because of a, you wanna know how it makes people feel, and you wanna know, make sure that the offset is, is as good as the onset. Because that's often Well you mean the

Heather: comedown? The comedown. '

Toni: cause that's often what people complain about with edibles and cannabis is like, oh, they turn into a zombie after they eat, uh, too many candies.

Or the next morning Yeah. They can't wake up. It's like they can't. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so particularly interested in making sure, like how the drink affects people. And one of the, we, we had a blood orange vanilla [00:39:00] yuzu drink, and one yuzu is so

Zoe: nice. I love

Toni: yuzu it. Just talk about the zing. Mm-hmm. Oh, I love a zing.

Mm-hmm. It adds that for sure. But one of them of the most interesting things we found through, we did like testing where they basically put, they test your brainwaves to see how, how you're reacting and how it affects you. And we kind of came to a, maybe it's more anecdotal than. Factual kind of, um, conclusion.

Is that like blood orange? There's ter terpenes. This is very beyond my ability to, I'm not a scientist, I'm a marketer. You sound like a scientist. Yeah. But there are terpenes in everything we consume, like Okay. Um, that they're plant derived. Okay. Um, and they're part of the plant that give it taste and flavor and aroma got.

And the moral of this story is that a blood orange, um, is able to increase your happiness. Like, it, it, it showed that when people drink our or blood orange drink compared to another, like a cherry and vanilla drink mm-hmm. The blood orange drink naturally had people testing to [00:40:00] be le leaving them feeling happier mm-hmm.

In their mood, feeling uplifted. And that can only really be related back to the terpenes in like the citrus juices that we were using. So there's just some really interesting science out there around the types of, um. The types of drinks we're, we're going to be right. Consuming in the next few years.

That's what we're using. We're using to create mood changes or up like change, help with mood, uplifting drinks, alcohol or replicate poison. Poison or replicate their, like, replicate the alcohol experience. Like there's some, there's some terpene companies out there who are trying to create the right elixir that will truly give you a stimulate, stimulated feeling, which I am think is very interesting.

Mm-hmm. As long as it's done in, in like a natural And it's using earths something

Zoe: that isn't gonna be addictive. Exactly. It feels, it feels like

Heather: right off the bat, I would be nervous about that. 'cause I'm addicted to anything that makes me feel any different than who I am right now. I mean, this makes us feel different, you know?

Yeah. But [00:41:00] I guess if it's,

Zoe: if it's in a safe environment that. Is tested. Mm-hmm. I feel like I'd be good about it, like coffee, energy,

Heather: drinks, you know, like it is. Yeah. But this is, this would be a little different, right? If they're putting like, like a It depends. I think it would, would similar natural thing.

It'd be as

Toni: long as it's na like mm-hmm. Again, it'd be like taking the terpenes out of oranges and then ex making those so concentrated. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, that it's like up, like, that's like the very badly people, almost, almost CBD thing kind of, yeah. Again, we shouldn't, don't make any claims about

Heather: anything Tony says.

Yeah. We're just talking about the future. I think you listen to this podcast, you're not listening for like, you're listening for like alternative facts, you know? Or like potential facts. We're like scrolling on

Zoe: TikTok

Heather: right now. Just chatting. Okay. Never trust us.

Toni: Yeah, yeah,

Heather: yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't know anything about weed anyway.

Toni: Um, but no, it's a, it's a very good cons flag and consideration for, you know, as I think about our innovation, ishmm. The addictive factor.

Zoe: Yeah. Well it's true because a lot of people aren't drinking anymore and [00:42:00] want to slow down. So like, what is next? It can't just be this, right? There's gonna be something more, which it could be that like it's just interesting to see where the future holds with.

Mm-hmm.

Heather: I know I'm, we wanna drink, we're not even gonna be eating food anymore. We're just gonna be like happy bang. Okay. Tired bang. I wanna eat food. Yeah, you like food? I would be thrilled if we never had to eat food again. Would you be thrilled to have a pill

Zoe: instead of eating? Yeah, you would.

Toni: I can get on board with that, but, 'cause I'm, but I'm all, 'cause I feels like it would be really eat like a lot easier, less decisions in life.

But I also love food.

Heather: What is your relationship with alcohol?

Toni: I used to drink a lot. Okay. I don't, uh, drink very much anymore. Um, my mom likes to remind everyone that, um, my nickname in high school was like Porcelain princess because I was just constantly puking from being hung over. Oh, gorgeous. Yes.

Heather: In, in high school.

Toni: In high school? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Heather: So when did you first start drinking? I think I was [00:43:00] 13. Small town shit. Small town shit. Small town shit.

Toni: Yeah. SMI off

Heather: ice. Yeah, of course. Damn, I forgot about those. I know. You just get on a knee. Yeah. It's so cool. You shrug them. Why not? Oh my God, the sugar. Um, drinking at 13 to me.

I'm like, whoa. Where did you get it? Is this, was it open in your family? Was everyone drinking? Was it easy for you to grab something?

Toni: Yeah. Yeah. Um, my, my family are very much like, like. In like a very, it's such a, I don't even know how to say it, but like my family's not, they're professionals, like mm-hmm.

Well, they've done well in their lives, but alcohol is just a huge part of it. Yeah. And I think it might be, have a lot to do with the small town thing and just how that generation grew up. But literally, I remember the first time I ever drank and my dad was like, it's New Year's Eve, here's a cooler. It drinks.

Oh, it was given to you? Yeah, it was given to me. Okay. And it was at with him and my whole family at my uncle's house on New Year's. And I got [00:44:00] absolutely shit faced. I was gonna say, just puked all over his bathroom. Yeah.

Heather: Did you just have one?

Toni: Oh no, I had like

Heather: 12. Okay.

Zoe: Or 12

Toni: I remember. I literally was, yeah.

Zoe: Was there ever any consequences to your drinking when you were like in high school? Or was it just like all fun and

Heather: Except for the puking.

Zoe: Except for the puking obviously. Did you get

Heather: in trouble? Did you get arrested? Did you fall down and hurt yourself? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Toni: I ended up in the hospital once with a concussion.

Here we go. Okay. Um. I definitely put myself in questionable situations. Yeah. Situations, definitely. And

Heather: are all of your friends in high school drinking with you? Mm-hmm. Okay. So this is a group thing? This is

Toni: a group thing. Mm-hmm. Bush parties. Oh God, steal And your parents liquor. Actually, I, I had my family wrapped around my finger.

They would buy booze for everyone else.

Zoe: Yeah.

Toni: Oh, you were an only child too. You were that family? Mm, yeah. Yeah. I'm an only child. You're an only child? Yeah.

Heather: Oh God. I always wondered what it was like for that family. Yeah. My parents

Toni: were like, what else do you wanna do?

Heather: Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Okay. So I kind of like her parents.

I know it

Toni: well, they're fun. Yeah. [00:45:00] Yeah. I would've been, I

Heather: would love, would be dead. I think I, I would

Toni: be I'd my boyfriend often says, honestly, if I, if I had your parents like, I think I would be dead. Oh my God. My mom just came to visit me from Kelowna and Oh cool. She start, she's like this very motherly in her, uh, older years and she's now, she's like, I'm going to make your bed.

Um, do you want a mimosa? And I was like, it's eight 30. Yes. I want you to make my bed. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and also, I guess you're retired, so, but like, she, we call her, call her steady drip. 'cause she just drinks Hey, champagne or white wine all day, all day. And Okay. She's functional, but fuck.

Zoe: Interesting.

And that's the thing, like we could never just be functional and drink every single day. That she, the difference does she have a lot of trauma? I would imagine. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because

Heather: that generation mm-hmm. Of women, we talk about this a lot, there's a lot of trauma that they don't talk about, and it's all sexual assault and it's all ridiculous.

And I think that maybe they're able sometimes to not get too fucked up and just have a steady drip because it's like they know, their bodies know [00:46:00] if they come off of this, it's gonna be real scary. Yeah. So I'm kind of like, then keep the IV in, babe. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Keep it in. If it's, it's working for you, it's, it's working for you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My dad stopped drinking when I stopped drinking. That's pretty much, yeah. That's nice. And I was like, what's this gonna be? Mm-hmm. He's fine now. He just writes novels in his room all day. Aw. I'm like, this is sweet Dads forever. Oh my God. So cute. Sweet boy. Um, okay. So you used to drink a lot?

Yeah. Mm-hmm. And till when do you feel like you

Toni: really drank? I think, uh, it was like maybe two years, two or three years ago. Three. We, we all took a staff trip to see the Blue Jays and I had tube beers and I puked the whole way home. Oh. And I was just like, I didn't even have fun. Yeah. I didn't even like the beers.

I was drinking Bud Light. Oh, disgusting. Why did I even drink that? It made me feel like shit. And I was like, this aid two beer doesn't get me drunk. Anyway. Yeah. So like, pointless. And I wished I had just not drank, so I was like, I, I think I just need to. Stop trying to do whatever I was doing, which felt like I [00:47:00] was just doing it because I was supposed to.

Yeah.

Heather: Right.

Toni: Um, to fit in kind of thing. To fit in. Like I'm, I work for a brewery. Yeah, yeah. Going to a beer event where everyone's drinking either are beer. That's the other thing is when you work in the beer, in a beer industry, you go to events and you're supposed to drink your beer Yeah. That you make.

Yeah. Yeah. So I would try to come up with like, okay, well I'll order a beer and I'll just have a sip, and then I'll kind of like give it to someone else. Yeah. And then I don't have to like, worry about, everyone's gonna say mm-hmm. And then man, and, but I find that like, you know, a vodka soda doesn't hit me as bad or make me feel this shitty.

And I'm like, why are you drinking nuts? That's not ours. I'm just like, oh man, I can't physically do it. I gotta get up tomorrow. Yeah. Like, I'm gonna die. What do you think it is

Heather: about the beer? Just like it's heavy.

Toni: I

Heather: think,

Toni: I don't know if it's beer doesn't work with you, it just wasn't the ingredients in it or whatever.

I find if I don't eat properly, which is just another thing that, you know, to your point of, it's a lot of decisions and thinking and a lot of anxiety and over on that space. And so if you don't nail, oh God, you're your sister, then you don't nail nail the [00:48:00] drinking then it's a bad mix.

Zoe: Yeah. Oh, was this something that was like happening for years and like kind of lean, leaned up to like, okay, this I am puking, this is too much for me?

Or was it kind of like a all of a sudden thing?

Toni: I think that

Zoe: I,

Toni: yeah, I was an all of a sudden thing. I don't think I was. Okay. Interesting. I don't, I was like. I think I was like, true. I was like a trooper. Like, I'm like, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna drink. I can do this. I can do it. That's so interesting, dad. This is part of what I have to do as a, as a young girl in this life.

Yeah. I just have to suck it up. Yeah. You have to suck

Heather: it up and be cool and be hot and like drink with

Toni: my parents so that they, I don't have to talk to them about why I am not drinking. Got it. Interesting. And so I was like, no, Toni who gives a shit? Yeah. Like you don't feel good. Yeah. Yeah. Don't body force you don't feel good.

Life

Zoe: is so hard. Fucking hard. I can't literally, it's a quarter of the day. Life is hard if you don't feel good.

Heather: I was gonna say, I can't believe that I used to like get up and I guess I did. 'cause I would take my dog to the park every morning at 7:00 AM and throw up. But other than that, I was not doing anything.

I don't know [00:49:00] how. Mm-hmm. I don't know how anyone does anything. Guess when I was 20 I could do it. Mm-hmm. But no. No. Are you sober from alcohol?

Toni: I would, no, I wouldn't call it that. Like I'll partake, I'll still partake if I feel up to it. And if I feel that like I am not gonna be mocked or I'm not gonna, if I have options that aren't gonna make me feel like shit, and I've had enough to eat mm-hmm.

It feels like the right vibe, then I will.

Heather: Okay. So you don't have a problem.

Toni: I don't have an addiction

Heather: too, too. Interesting. No. Um, okay. Do you think it's in your family?

Toni: Uh,

Heather: my, yeah. It's most families. I'm not trying to out your family. Yeah. But I just, when it's in the family and someone doesn't get it, doesn't catch the addiction, I'm like, how?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, especially you, it seemed you really

Zoe: tried to get

Heather: it though. Yeah. You really did.

Toni: Did you really tried. Did solid effort to be an alcoholic. Yeah. Oh God. Yeah. I, I, it's just natural for some of us, I think. I, I think it has to do with, like, when we talk, we're talking about mental health.

Yeah. And probably seven years ago when I started to become a little bit more self-aware and maybe more, have more [00:50:00] agency over my own life. Yeah. Um, and realize like really what's important. Yeah. But my, um, yeah, it's, it's actually a very interesting point I've never thought about.

Heather: What is your. Beer. It's, it's craft beer.

Mm-hmm.

Toni: Okay. Hold on. What is

Heather: craft beer?

Toni: Craft beer? What a question. Craft beer is beer that is maybe made with, it's usually made by someone that is local or it's made by, it's, it's like the artisanal way of making it versus Coors Light. They cut corners, um, from an ingredient perspective. So they'll use like corn syrup and other things to, um, get flavor and fermentation.

Craft beer has always been anti the cutting corners of, it's all about the art and the craft. Okay. Um, so yeah, just like, so

Heather: that's the same then as like the non-healthy energy? It's all craft, it's all, it's all made with real and ged. It's all, yeah. It's just about

Toni: like,

Heather: [00:51:00] okay,

Toni: how it's made right is really what craft beer is.

Okay.

Zoe: And then to make it non-alcoholic. Uh, do you do the same craft beer and make it non-alcoholic, or is it different non-alcoholic beers? So it's

Toni: different because, um, there's a few different ways of making non-alcoholic beer. The, the Heinekens that you'd find in Loblaws for the last 15 years that are hopefully now covered in dust.

Heather: Mm-hmm. Um,

Toni: mm-hmm. I know my boyfriend hates them, so I

Heather: hate them too. I'm her boyfriend.

Toni: Perfect. Um, those are deh alcohol ized. Mm-hmm. So they basically taste, they make the beer and then they de it out. Okay. So that's makes, that's what they do with the wine too, right? Mm, yes. Yes. And that's what makes it not taste very good.

'cause alcohol is what gives it the body and delicious flavors. So we do a, a controlled fermentation process. So it only ever basically allows you to make beer the same way that you normally would make it with alcohol, but it only ever gets to 0.4% alcohol. Mm-hmm. Okay. Which is like what a kombucha might be, right.

For example. Right. Um, so it allows you to like still, because you want, like, it [00:52:00] takes almost two weeks for a beer to actually get to its full. Uh, body and flavor in tank. It sits there, has to sit there. And is that

Heather: the fermentation process? Yes. So that's where it gets more alcoholy. Yeah, exactly. More

Toni: it for the sugar ferments.

And that's how it gets a higher percent, higher percentage of alcohol. And so there's this, there's some technology and how they are making yeast out there. And the yeast is what? Gross is what? It's so gross. So gross. And that's, that works. Um, I know, and that's, it's funny. Male dominated industries.

Honestly. Honestly, God, it gross. Seriously. Seriously. Um. So that's what, yeah, so there's like, there's this new yeast where it doesn't ferment as quickly, so you're still able to ferment it and get all the amazing, delicious flavor and everything. Interesting. It just never gets to be fully boozy,

Heather: but it's the

Toni: same, same ingredients, exact same ingredients as like our life in the clouds IPA versus our non elk.

IPA very similar ingredients taste. So good. [00:53:00] Interesting. Yeah. It's really expensive to make. Mm-hmm. Which is why, you know, ours are probably priced premium and most of the Heinekens aren't doing it like that. Yeah.

Heather: Right, right, right. Well, we've got dust on them. They've got

Toni: dust on them.

Heather: Are you, are you, um, you sell to like retailers?

Mm-hmm. Also, are you in bars? Yep. Okay. And when you're going to bars and saying Hi, do you want to buy this alcohol? Are you now also pushing the non elk too?

Toni: Absolutely. Yes. Okay. That's exciting. We find that both our zero proof cocktails and our non elk beer are finding their way onto a lot of menus.

Like, okay. Permanently. Yeah.

Heather: Okay. I like that. There was nothing last night at that dive bar. Which one? Let's go

Toni: call on it.

Heather: Let's go's hand's tooth. Go to hand's. Tooth. Okay. There's some people in there who I said maybe our rep is Hailey. Hailey. Hailey, Hailey. Get Hounds tooth contact. Jillian, get yourself to Hounds too.

Kay and Jillian, get on it. Jill. We'll just take a day. We'll take a Friday and we'll go down around to all the bars and we'll harass them and say hello. That would actually be really fun.

Toni: You said you didn't know [00:54:00] sales. You know, you know sales. That's sales. Hello,

Heather: would you like to buy our drinks? And they say no.

And I say

Toni: okay.

Heather: And then I, bye somebody'll. Yeah, you're pretty cute to say no to. Yeah, so much. It is my one. How many nos do

Zoe: you get? Now,

Heather: you know what? A lot more than you'd think. Okay. It's a personality thing. Um, bars aren't coming to you and saying like, hi, can we have your collective arts? You have to go.

Right.

Toni: It's, I think you'd be surprised that there are a lot of people that are looking like, because PE customers are asking for that kind of thing. Yeah. They don't want just diet Coke anymore. Yeah. Um, so we do have a lot of people that like, they know, they're like, oh. Oh, now that they know, they're like, okay, and you have more.

Mm-hmm. And then the beauty of collective arts, and again, the, going back to when I talk about people who try to do too many things at once and how that's a, that is an opinion that could be used against us. But in this case, a bar who's ordering beer cocktails already from us now, they don't have to go to another place, another supplier to buy, [00:55:00] another supplier to buy non elk drinks.

They can kind of fill their whole menu with our products. It's really smart. So we, it's kind of like a one-stop shop, and then you don't have to worry about a, the quality either. Yeah.

Zoe: You also have so many flavors. Yeah. Of like the energy drinks. There's six flavors. The, um, functional mocktails, there's what, six flavors as well?

There's four of those right now. Four of those we're coming out with more. Mm-hmm. Oh my God. I knew from that little lucky

Toni: that's, I'm like, yeah, I'm the, I'm the. Instigator of wanting to always do more things of products. I love products. She's

Heather: got a busy brain. What happens when you sell that brain down?

What happens when demons come up?

Toni: Yes.

Heather: You'll like, they're very similar to my demons. Chloe Kardashian, her good American jeans. Mm-hmm. And like her whole thing, her whole line, she sells to retailers, but she won't sell it to them unless they buy the full size range. Got it. So like zero to 16, 18. Yeah. She's like, no, no.

Like this is an inclusive brand. Mm-hmm. Which I think is great. Which is like you guys could do that. You could say, Hey [00:56:00] listen, if you want our alcohol, you also have to take our non alcohol. Yeah.

Zoe: Because why Chris Jen's coming here. Alcohol. No, I think that's smart. I like that. Thank you so much.

Toni: Yeah, we do that.

We do that in a way, not necessarily with elk. With With elk, yeah. Yeah. No, we just force it on 'em. Yeah, we gotta force it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There

Zoe: needs to be options everywhere for us.

Heather: There really does. We're everywhere.

Zoe: That's all I really want in like spaces I go to, you know, just options. And these are amazing.

Heather: I know. Can we talk about the cannabis? Were you gonna say something?

Zoe: No, I just wanna bring it back to how, when, what switched in her mental health seven years ago. We will get back to it. I do

Heather: wanna do that too. Yeah. Okay. Let's go there. I love that. Let's unpack that. Yeah. I

Zoe: need to as well. You wanna talk that a little bit more just so I a little understand you better?

Heather: Yeah. Seven years ago, what happened?

Toni: Oh, um, you know what? I shouldn't give him all the credit, but my boyfriend, my older boyfriend mm-hmm. Is very emotionally intelligent. Mm. And has done all of the, um, mental feeling it was that I had a health journey himself. [00:57:00] Mm-hmm. And he one time said, Toni you were projecting.

Mm-hmm. And I was like, what the fuck does that mean? Yeah. Like, how dare you? What does that mean? And then I start, and then I understood whatcha talking about. Understood. And then as soon as I started to be understanding this concept of projecting, I was like, oh shit. There's a whole world of Tony that we have not figured out yet.

Because I am just realizing that I am what projecting means and what, and that I've been basically doing it my whole life. Hmm. Um. He has been a huge help in helping me figure that out. I love him. Does he go to therapy? Oh yeah. Are you? Yes. Are you in

Heather: therapy?

Toni: Uh, yes. Okay. Have you

Heather: been for seven years? Did you

Toni: start he, yeah.

He was the one who was like, you gotta go there, Pete.

Heather: Yeah. And then, and then why did you guys break up? Oh, we didn't. No, I thought you said ex-boyfriend. No, that's okay. Oh, you said boyfriend? Boyfriend, okay. Oh my God. I'm sorry. No, embarrassing. Steve. We're

Toni: still together. It's okay. Don't worry. It's not a breakup podcast.[00:58:00]

Heather: I'm so sorry about that, Steve.

Zoe: God. Okay. So I love that your boyfriend kind of like, not save you, but like just I like it pushed you in that way. Yeah. When partners push. There's significant others to be a better person. Yeah. And that's really special. It's,

Heather: yeah. It's also cool that he was like, Hey, you're projecting.

Can you do something about that? Rather than being like, Hey, fuck you. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like you're young, you're whatever you got work to do. That's,

Zoe: yeah. And he probably like wasn't gonna stay with you if you were like that, so I was a nightmare. Yeah.

Toni: Like a total nightmare. So insecure, so anxious about everything.

Mm-hmm. Okay. So just the fact that he had, he was like a mature, emotional person that was like, I hear what's happening in there. Mm-hmm. This, you, you, you like, we can, we can get through this Yeah. Kinda thing. And just guided me to water that I hadn't been mm-hmm. Because my upbringing is not exactly, like, my parents don't really like, you know, the, the talk about mental health and therapy at home is like, well just don't come home and bitch about how your mom didn't treat you well.

Yeah. I was like, I, I, yeah, I know. It's just more, there's more to it. I'm not [00:59:00] gonna hold her against her maybe. But, um, yeah, just showing me the leading you to water on, on all things mental health, it felt like a whole world. Wow. And it really like helped me. I think I'm, I'm naturally a curious person and I never really tapped into that until Steve was like, you know, self showed me some self-awareness.

Mm-hmm. And how it's actually Okay and fun to be curious. Mm-hmm. Right. So now I'm like super curious and like, I love, I actually, I. Remind myself often that I'm very lucky that I am, I find joy in most parts of life. Like I am joyful. Yeah. Um, and I think it's because I've been able to untap this like self-awareness, which has untapped my curiosity.

And now I just like, I'm like, wow, like I loved, this will be a highlight of my week just by mm-hmm. Being with amazing souls and energy. Yeah. So like That's awesome. Yeah. Life's, that's what life's about. That's really cool. I know. Cool. This kind of thing,

Heather: like will propel my entire week, like I'm gonna be in a great mood all week.

Same. I just, it's the best, but. [01:00:00] Wait, there was something, oh, the curiosity. What? When you're talking about that, what do you mean? Do you mean like within yourself or relationships? I think within, within everything. Just

Toni: like being, being brought up in such a black and white, this is right, this is wrong. Sure.

Don't ask questions. Just do, don't ask questions or like keep your head down. Yeah. Well just, just being reminded that like what if, or, um, there's other ways to do things. Mm-hmm. Or if things feel hard, like asking more questions and just being super curious around. Like the bad example is like, you know, I just find it so, so interesting about space, for example.

I know fucking nothing about it. Oh, sure.

Heather: Keep the cameras rolling. Let's get into space. I just wanna, I like,

Toni: I randomly was like, Steve, I'm buying a telescope. What's going on up there? What's going on up there? Uh, that kind of thing. From that to like, what if I thought, what about this like, concept of mental health?

Mm-hmm. The, or a tool to use to change my way of thinking. Mm-hmm. Because I just think the, I think about how strong, how interesting it is when you [01:01:00] become so self-aware to have one thought that is driving you this way, but you're now able to think. Be, have some altitude. Yeah. And control that thought from mm-hmm.

Doing what you might used to do. Like, I always find there's this, now there's this really awesome tension with, with me where my physical body is wanting to do, push me somewhere. But my, my awareness now and my curiosity is like, nope. Just be curious about how that feeling is and not act on it. That is an interesting concept.

Zoe: Like, just be

Heather: curious. Yeah. Keep pushing. I had that, I had that written on there before, but it, you did have it on the sticky note there. Be curious, ask questions. My, yeah, my therapist does that to me and I just kind of realized recently what she was doing. 'cause she, we would talk about something and then she's like, does that make you mad?

And I'm like, yeah. But honestly, it like wasn't really his fault. And like, I kind of get, and she's like, okay, does it make you mad? And it's like, hard for me to do and she's like trying to get me to like feel every emotion and like yeah, be curious about that emotion. Figure out what it is so I [01:02:00] can. Move on from it.

Toni: Mm-hmm.

Heather: But I'm like, no, no, everything is fine. Like, I get it. It's a me problem, but Yeah. Yeah. No,

Toni: but like why is it, why, like why is it a you problem? Yeah. Are you sure it's a you problem? Mm-hmm. Why do you even feel like that? Is there something that is, is it just a habit? Mm-hmm. That's what I find is a lot of my bad thoughts are just bad habits.

Yeah. Yeah. Your bad

Zoe: thoughts. I have to remind myself too, like even the conversation I had with you with my father yesterday, I need to remind myself, like my first thought mm-hmm. Is probably a bad one. Like my initial thought is an alcoholic thought. Yeah. I need to get to the second thought in my brain.

'cause that one is gonna be the more sane idea and insane

Heather: Yeah.

Zoe: Reasoning. Mm-hmm. Like I'm not fucking mad at my dad. Sure. You know? I know. Yeah. I'm not fucking, that's just the easy way

Heather: to go

Zoe: about

Heather: Oh yeah. This

Zoe: situation.

Heather: I made up an entire story about a man yesterday and I was so mad at him and then I like, it was fine.

Yeah. I'm like, the man did nothing. The man is fine.

Zoe: Yeah. The man is just chilling. It's a good reminder. It is. Yeah. But it

Heather: is true that first like, like. [01:03:00] I'm assuming, like, did you have like rage or quick to trigger? Is that kind of what it was? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And now having the ability to be like, Hmm. What's going on with that person?

Yeah. And like, do I need to scream in their face? Yeah. Not, you know, it's kind of, and just

Toni: feeling the power of not reacting has been Yeah. Is what keeps me not reacting like that.

Zoe: Right. Do you feel like you loved yourself seven years ago? No. Do you feel like you love

Toni: yourself now? Definitely. Fuck. Yeah. A lot more.

Like, I don't think. Yeah. And like, you know, I have a lot of like, eating issues and I was, I was just gonna ask, thinking, think about how, like, how I went through life back then and all of the things I would say to myself then. Mm-hmm. And when I like think about it now, it's just like, oh man. Toni what were you doing to yourself?

Sad. It is sad. Yeah. I was a,

Heather: yeah, I was an eating disorder girl. When did that st Are you okay to talk about it? Yep. When did that start for you?

Toni: Probably high end of high school, early university. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The university was the key. Mm.

Heather: Were you, at any point did, were you equating your [01:04:00] drinking to your eating or your drinking to your weight or your Yeah,

Toni: I would say like the two were hand in hand.

'cause like my eating disorder was also involved, a lot of puking, so it would say easy to camouflage at all together as well.

Heather: Okay. Right.

Toni: Yeah. You could blame it on the drinking, could blame it on drinking at any point, and no one would question me.

Heather: Well, that's also kind of how I, I'm wondering about the brewer, the brewery, and like the beer industry in general.

It seems like a easy place to kind of go and hide your alcoholism. Mm-hmm. Do you find that, is that a thing? Do, is there a lot of, I think it's

Toni: probably less. So then you might think just because it is ultimately a job Okay. And like everyone takes it so seriously. 'cause it is truly like their passion.

It's more of like a, like a kitchen or like, you know, like it's, there's a lot more heart to it.

Zoe: Yeah.

Toni: Um, not to say that, you know, that does, you exist an alcoholic and you're surrounded by beer all the time, that, that would be easy or conducive. Mm-hmm. But I think, I do think that for our, at least in our situation, we don't have a lot of folks that, um, [01:05:00] either are addicted or they're just so focused on making a great tasting product for the most part.

Heather: Yeah. That's good. It is. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. It feels, I mean, it seems like it's a nice community. It is. It does.

Toni: It's very fun to just work with a bunch of people that are,

Zoe: you know, swimming in the same direction. Yeah. I feel like I must have been to that, um, to the location on, uh, dun Dundas and Bathurst definitely was hammered when I went there though.

'cause I don't remember it. But like I know the outside of it so well. Right. That I'm like, yeah. I must, something must have happened there. You like, I've done something devious. I've done something there. I don't know what it was. Should be all gas. No, no. I'm so sorry. Next

Toni: time, just now, you know, next time you go, you don't have to Yeah.

There's lots of things to I buy bond that are non-alcoholic. Have to those there Not currently. Okay. Would you like there to be? Yeah. Should watch, watch the game. I wanna watch the game. Yeah. Which game? I'm a sports girl. Sports game. Oh, nice. What sports? All I like, uh, football? Yeah. Okay. I'm an [01:06:00] NFL. I'm a Miami Dolphins fan.

Oh, dolphins. I'm

Zoe: a Lions fan. Oh, I love Detroit. Okay.

Toni: I I, I'm like, when it comes to sports, like I have one team, but I have, I say like I'm top five in all sports.

Zoe: I like Buffalo. Me

Toni: too.

Zoe: Buffalo's. Okay. Buffalo's my second. Josh Ellen's on my fantasy football team. Nice. Do you do fantasy football? Mm-hmm. Oh my God, that's so cool.

My boyfriend is doing three teams, three fantasy teams, and he's stressed the fuck out and like, I can't talk to him on Sundays. I can't do it.

Toni: Steve has an emotional problem with football, but nothing else

Heather: an emotion. Like he needs to watch it. Uh, he think how many links is he thinks of his

Toni: worth as, uh, relates to how good he is in life with how much he's up to date with football.

Okay, honey, we love you, but it's unhealthy.

Heather: That is fair. That's his cocaine. Steve and my boyfriend would get along great. Yes. It sounds like, and yeah,

Toni: they would stress, uh, about football and how you could possibly not get it right. Mm-hmm. And it is just crazy to me. Mm-hmm. I'm like, it's a game. Mm-hmm.

[01:07:00] Remember there's a saying any given Sunday for a reason. Yeah. It could, anything could happen. So why are we stressed about that?

Zoe: Yeah. I don't know. A tv, I like a bar that doesn't have a tv. But, but it would bring her close. It would bring her there more. It would, it would bring me closer

Heather: and it would bring me, 'cause I'll go where Zoe goes and I'll just watch the game and she can tell me what's going on.

Jillian, we need tv. Jillian, write down. Put it on the list. Thank you, Jillian. Make come bake. We need to get a Jillian, Emma will be arguing eventually. Jillian's like, by the way, this is not my job just to be yelled at in the corner of the room.

Zoe: I did not sign this. I like this way too much. We can't have a Jillian yet.

I know, I know. This is very dangerous. You gotta call hr.

Heather: It's me.

Zoe: But,

Heather: um, cannabis.

Zoe: Huh?

Heather: Cannabis. Cannabis Eating disorders. Right. Eating

Zoe: disorders.

Heather: So, yes. So you are hiding that with the puking. I was just jump right back in. I was very similar because I was a dancer. So like, we had to be skinny and it was like the vibe.

No one give a only, only people cared if you were gaining weight, but if you were losing weight, you were like, perfect, and we'll put you in the front, right? Mm-hmm. [01:08:00] So, yeah, kind of being able to hide it is really helpful for a little bit. Did it, did it stop being, um. Maintainable at some point. Yes.

Toni: And I think just like the turmoil in my brain, like I just wasn't able to, like, it was miserable.

Not, yeah. 'cause I also love food, so that was prob that was the problem. Mm-hmm. Is I like eating, I like food, I like cooking. Mm-hmm. Um, I just wasn't able to, um, have a good relationship. Like the concept of eating just when you're hungry kind of thing is like, well, that's not how I'm feeling about eating right now.

Mm-hmm. Um, and so just the constant, um, deprivation and binging sounds exhausting, right? Yeah. It's just a lot. Yeah. It's just, it's a lot of decisions. Yeah. So when you talk about the, the pill, I'm like a pill to eat. Yeah. In one camp of me, I'm like, that would be perfect. Mm-hmm. Because then I don't have to like, and, and back to my 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 thing, it's like, well then okay, erase, I've erased the, uh, need to have.

Any decisions we made, which erases the need for anxiety over any the decisions that I'm gonna make. Right. It's [01:09:00] been made, I'm on to the next thing. Mm-hmm. So

Heather: now if someone says, Hey, where do you wanna go for dinner? Do you panic?

Toni: No.

Heather: Oh, good. I panic. Mm-hmm.

Toni: I panic. I'm now like fully back into I love food, I wanna order the

Heather: whole menu.

So that's another thing that got to

Zoe: work on with your therapist.

Heather: Yeah, definitely. That's so good. And then that was also part of the seven years of kind of transforming. Yeah. And you feeling okay now with body image? Are you feeling? I thi

Toni: Hmm. I would say I feel okay. Like way, way past. Yeah. Um, anything I used to have, I would say I think it's, it's gonna be forever a work in progress for women.

Yeah. Um, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So it's as, as good as I can expect it to be.

Heather: Yeah. Well, good for you. It's a fucking gnarly job to have. Yeah. To like not eat all day. It's so stressful. Oh God. Look at you now. Crushing it. Fuck yeah. Oh God. Um, okay. Cannabis. Let's talk about cannabis a little bit. Mm-hmm. You, when did that start for collective arts?

Toni: So we start, we launched our cannabis beverages just after legalization in [01:10:00] Canada. Oh, okay. So it was like two years after the official, so it might be early, early 2020. Mm-hmm. Um, and they became legal. Um, and we just knew based off of our consumers, like what our brand proposition was, that cannabis. And also, um, I would say like our leadership team is very much about, you know, in imbibing in ways that are like not smoking.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and so we knew that we had a great position to be in that space. Mm-hmm. Um, and we ended, and, and the other thing is a lot of cannabis beverages that had been innovated up until then tasted really shitty. Like, taste like you don't wants to drink bong water. I've never drank me either.

Zoe: Weed thing.

Toni: Oh, well we can, if you're open to it. We're not gonna start. Not yet. Can't start now. That's fair. It's.

Zoe: Some of the weed drinks sometimes. Yeah. When she like doesn't wanna drink. When she doesn't want to drink alcohol, she'll drink a weed drink. Mm. Um, so be curious to see what she would think of them. Yeah.

We'll watch, we'll

Heather: watch her drink it. We'll watch her drink it

Zoe: and see what happens. We'll study her. Yeah. Fun.

Heather: [01:11:00] Unfortunately, unfortunately, if we drink it, we will then go to the LCD and then we will burn it down. Yeah. And then have sex with everybody. The sex with the survivors. Anyone who will Yeah. The

Zoe: people on the street God.

Heather: The street

Zoe: people.

Heather: And then we become

Zoe: street people.

Heather: Yeah. The

Toni: sewer people. That was that, that, that went downhill real quick. And that's why we can't do it.

Heather: Cannabis is interesting. Were you, you got, so there was no crossover between when you guys were making non ALK and cannabis? Oh yeah, there was definitely.

Toni: Like, maybe it came non elk, maybe came after, but we, yeah, we were in, not, we

Heather: were in cannabis before. Mm-hmm. Okay. Big in non

Toni: elk. Yeah.

Heather: Okay. Okay. And then, but then it was sold, right?

Toni: Yeah. And the way the regulations work in Canada is an alcohol company, can actually, any company that could be, uh, visible to minors mm-hmm.

Basically can't also be a cannabis company. So like that, so it's called Collective Project. It was a sister company. Oh, hey. Um,

Heather: okay. I read that. Yeah.

Toni: And so it wasn't [01:12:00] like, yeah. So anyways, they, we have to be very careful about how we marketed. Mm-hmm. Okay. One to the other. 'cause you can't come even close to mixing them.

You can't be produced in the same site, blah, blah, blah.

Heather: But these, these are like non-alcoholic. Like these aren't anything, these aren't even like point, those are just energy drugs. Yeah. Yeah. Don't point anything. They're just not No, I know. But like they, oh right, it's seven 11. So a kid can buy.

Toni: Anything, right?

Yeah. It was just like, you know, for example, you

Zoe: could only buy them online then like the weed drinks or We, they

Toni: would be all sold through like the Ontario Cannabis store, like any dispensaries. Okay. Any dispensary had them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, but that was kind of the problem with can it still is, the problem with cannabis beverages is that the opportunity for cannabis beverages should be for the sober curious, those who are looking to stop drinking.

Mm-hmm. So much those who are looking to stop smoking so much. Mm-hmm. But those people aren't really going into dispensaries. Those people are going to Loblaws and grocery shopping. Right. Or alcohol stores. Right. For low elk stuff. Yeah. And so no one really knows that cannabis beverages exist. Mm-hmm. Um, and so there's people like us who are [01:13:00] trying to make and innovate beverages that are mod for moderation and for healthier consumption.

Mm-hmm. But the people in the dispensary are looking for 300 milligrams of, of shit, and we are not, that's not what we have created. What about like a

Zoe: CBD drink? Would that be more accessible for you guys to create. We did to put on the shelf. Okay. We

Toni: did have like some, they, we did put C, b, D in our drinks.

Okay. The CCB d um, by itself, the CBD by itself, they're just doesn't taste, doesn't taste CCB D'S the worst tasting of them all. Oh yeah. I don't know

Zoe: anything about it. Um,

Toni: for some reason, I don't know why it tastes worse, but, um, the, the reality of the market was that there was not enough consumers that wanted just CBD.

Oh. And I think it's related to that same point of like, there's not enough of us mm-hmm. Going into dispensaries Yeah. Looking for drinks. So you can't sell

Heather: CBD at Loblaws and shit.

Toni: Okay.

Heather: That's why I was wondering with this stuff. Yeah. Because sometimes when it's the same company, it like, doesn't let you, [01:14:00] or maybe it's just in the States, but like, they're like, you can like, like mixers.

Yeah. For alcohol. Even if there's zero, sometimes you can't buy them if you're underage. Yeah. Interesting. So I just wondered if, if it was all the same, do you think eventually.

Zoe: CBD will be allowed to be sold in Loblaws. Like do you think that's like where it's going? I think eventually, 'cause that doesn't really make sense in my brain why CB drinks wouldn't be

Toni: allowed at Loblaws.

I think that CBD and THC drinks will be sold. Oh, really? Be able to be sold at Loblaws really in the next 10 years. THC makes me scared about Loblaws.

Heather: I know. I don't know. I know it makes me scared too. Just for the,

Zoe: well, I guess they're, I mean, I guess they're selling alcohol. I know. And I keep going back

Heather: and forth with that.

'cause I was gonna ask you, like when you're, you're selling non, well now you guys aren't in the cannabis business. Mm-hmm. But you're selling non and you're selling cannabis, but I guess you're also selling alcohol and like, I'm thinking like, do you feel any sort of responsibility in that space to like. I don't even know what the question would be because you can't handle someone's addiction or their over consumption.

But do you feel [01:15:00] like there's like an education trying to go on being like, okay, but I don't know what I'm trying to ask. Like, yeah, it's

Toni: difficult. I do think the, the key to, um. I was gonna say that I think Health Canada and the A GCO and our regulatory departments do a decent job of making, of protecting us in Canada way more so than in the us.

The safe is crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so I do think that from a, at least from a cannabis, cannabis beverages are actually one of the safest ways to consume because they're the science, the emulsion, the way it digests through your body, you can control your dose, you can, um, the, the dosing is, is very accurate.

Mm-hmm. Um, compared to like your, again, your, your friend who makes a brownie, right. So I think God, he makes many things. I do think that, um, our regulatory bodies do a decent job setting us up for success in not, um, being appealing to minors and not being a, a to a, [01:16:00] you know. Um, not being in front of people that they shouldn't be in front of.

Okay. Yeah. But at the same time, to your point, like alcohol is at Loblaws, it's everywhere. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, and the, but the reality is, is that cannabis drinks are so much, actually, so much healthier for you Yeah. Than alcohol. Right. There's like, that's the thing. Truly, there's, there's no like, long-term effects on your liver Yeah.

And all of the same things that you have from alcohol. Yeah. So I would love to see less vodka on shelves and more. Yeah. Because the other piece too for me, where I think is really interesting is now blurring the lines between like a cannabis, there's a lot of people who would use cannabis for energy as well.

Like cannabis isn't just used for. Partying or for getting into a haze. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like people use it functionally. Yeah. Get shit done. And so I think there'll be, that's what, uh, the area that's really interesting to me.

Heather: This is, I feel like this coincides with like the super ages. Yeah. And the longevity of like life.

I think that that's what this is gonna be. It is gonna be like, okay, what drugs are we doing to like [01:17:00] mm-hmm. You know, make sure we're good. Yeah. And to like excel

Zoe: in this aspect. Exactly. Into like what's good for my brain. I do agree that like, cannabis drinks are better than alcohol. Yeah. I agree. But alcohol, that wouldn't mean that I would be drinking them.

No, it's still, they're still wouldn't be drinking them.

Heather: You

Zoe: can't. Yeah. But as alcoholics addicts, you can't. But in the grand scheme of like people that can drink mm-hmm. And partake in drugs and alcohol and whatever, you should probably switch and it, you should probably switch. Yeah. If you wanna be a healthier person in general.

Yeah. Drink a cannabis drink, not a alcohol drink. One's poison one's a plant. It seems in simple to me.

Toni: Tie that up.

Zoe: Package that up. Yeah. Testimonial.

Heather: Yeah. No, truly. You know what I wanna say about collective arts, um, before we wrap? Yeah. Is that just, I was thinking about this like. When you were talking about the anticipation of doing everything, so many things.

I'm like that too. And I'm like, let's cancel the podcast forever. Mm-hmm. And I'm gonna take the long nap,

Zoe: the longest nap ever kill myself.

Heather: But I, um, thank you for [01:18:00] clarifying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I was thinking like, okay, yeah. Then you get to the place where you're going and you're like, this is so fun. I'm having the best time.

But usually when you do that, like, I'm going to the collective Arts brewery, is that what it's called? Yeah, sure. That's okay. Okay. Um, I go to the collective arts brewery to meet my friends. That's community. That's good for my mental health. Yeah. And then I'm gonna drink something alcoholic and fuck my mental health and go home alone.

And it's like, you're almost there. Yeah. Like you're almost good in your mental health. It's like we're getting there and then it's like, oh wait. Yeah. Nevermind. We're gonna stunt you. So it's like, the good thing about this is you can literally go, yeah. Have community and then just like. Drink these and be totally fine and have the same experience

Toni: other than throwing up all over the place and not have to talk about, and not have to talk at length about it if you don't want to.

Mm-hmm. Your whole conversation just isn't, that's my point, is like your whole conversation doesn't have to be about sober. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's so much more to the both of you. You, other than like that's a big portion of you. Mm-hmm. But like I know, like we know [01:19:00] that about you now we're best friends.

Mm-hmm. What else there to know about you? Right. Let's not just, we gotta get into anal. Okay. I wanna know.

Heather: Okay. No. Um, yeah, I unplug that one. Yeah. You like the

Zoe: anal

Heather: Yeah. GI Jillian's in on and the whole thing we've got a finger on. Um, well this has been amazing. Is there anything else that you wanna say that we've missed?

Nothing, I don't think.

Toni: Okay. So I think we covered a lot. Yeah. I, I just would say, yeah, like moderation and options are what we mm-hmm. Yeah.

Heather: That's what I was, I was gonna, that's we want, we like to ask like a final kind of like advice question, I guess. What would my, what would our question be, I guess, is there, is there anything that you wanna debunk kind of about the non ALK industry?

Like is there anything Yeah. To let people know about?

Toni: I think that, um, people or consumers currently think that non-alcoholic products are for those who [01:20:00] are looking to. Not drink any alcohol at all. And that's really what it's been propped up as. Mm-hmm. As you can't drink. So here's something that doesn't really taste that good, but will feed the, you know, the, in your, in your ma in your head.

But I think the advice is that there are, there's so much innovation out there, there's so much really great tasting products that are coming out into the market. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think people should just keep, even if you're not actively looking to maybe cut down on alcohol, you can. Also look to add more non-alcoholic options.

Mm-hmm. That might pique your curiosity a bit more. Yeah.

Heather: Yeah.

Toni: Um, there's just like non-A doesn't have to be boring and not fun anymore. non-A can be actually really fun. It can actually bring more to your life because you're not, it's not literally bringing you down. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think that the world of non elk is going is it's, we're, we're just scratching the surface.

No, it's a great time to be sober with,

Zoe: with all these [01:21:00] alcoholics, no drinks. Seriously. How could we have done it 10 years ago? Really? We couldn't have,

Heather: what's the, even the point of being drunk anymore if we have all this. Yeah. You know? Well, thank you. Drunk on life. So Drunk on life. Drunk on life. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for, for coming and speaking with us. This was so fun. I'm gonna obviously s stock that fridge with all of our collective art. Yay. And we're very proud of you. I'm proud of you. And thank you for showing up. Jillian. Proud of you, Jill. Nailed it. Proud of you. I'm proud of you. Proud of you.

Proud of you. Proud. Bye bye.

Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Undrunk podcast and or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com.

Zoe: Oh, sorry, what? Forgot the bull. Oh, it's like that was in my head. Crushed it.

Woo hoo. That [01:22:00] was.

#GirlUndrunk #SobrietyJourney #AddictionRecovery #HealingIsNotLinear #SoberVoices #RecoveryPodcast #SoberCurious #EmotionalHealing #SpeakYourTruth #LifeWithoutAlcohol #WomenInRecovery #MentalHealthMatters #AlcoholFreeLife #SelfTrust #HealingOutLoud

Heather Chappell

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