#36: Kinda Cool, Sorta Trashy

Nov 26

Heather and Zoe talk through the ups and downs of their week, from hormonal swings and shifting relationship dynamics to the subtle impact of seasonal changes on mental health. Over a holiday sangria, they catch up on personal updates — including Heather's recent breakup — and reflect on how parents might better approach conversations with their kids about drinking.

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Kinda Cool, Sorta Trashy Transcript

Heather: [00:00:00] This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening.

Welcome back to Girl. Undrunk. I'm Heather. I'm Zoe. And we back, baby. Just the two of us. We backed just the two of us. Just how I like it and oh, actually all the three of us. Sorry about that. Nike, you. He doesn't count in my eyes.

Zoe: He's not

Heather: a person. Yeah, but you know,

Zoe: you know.

Heather: No, I know.

Zoe: You know,

Heather: you don't know.

No, I, I will never understand and that's okay. But it's okay. You know, the dog people will come for you. So watch it. [00:01:00] Sceo deal. It's T Treous. Okay. Um, how are you? How am I? Cheers. Oh my God. Cheers. Okay, guys, today we're drinking ones wine sangria. We made it into a little fall. Apple, pear pomegranate, little diddy.

Yeah,

Zoe: it's like a holiday mimosa. Holiday mimosa. And I love it. Cheers. I love it too. Cheers. Cheers. Ooh,

Heather: ooh.

Zoe: I wish every sip I had a pomegranate would enter my throat. Oh,

Heather: you know what I mean? Oh yeah. And instead of that, I think I would actually rather be eating pita and hummus with pomegranates in it.

Zoe: Mm.

Yeah. That sounds nice. Yeah. I like that. Me too.

Heather: Yeah, I'm

Zoe: good.

Heather: Yeah. How was your mental,

Zoe: honestly, we both had like a bad week last week. It was very bad. We will talk about it. And you exhausted. Yeah.

Heather: Last week was chaos. We did a double and I lost the first recording, [00:02:00] but that's okay. And now

Zoe: we're back.

Heather: And now

Zoe: we're back.

It's gonna be better. Yeah. This time around. It's, it's always better this time around. Like when we lose a episode, when we have to redo it, it's always better. It's like, I'm not even that worried, but I feel like that piled up with everything last week. Yeah. It's just too much was so much for the both of us.

Yeah. And we were both getting our periods and I think a lot was just going on in our

Heather: lives.

Zoe: We

Heather: just like cannot be in the workforce once a month. Like we can't,

Zoe: it's too

Heather: much. And

Zoe: now that we're synced up, like this is gonna happen once a month, like we're both gonna be in a mood. I know. At the same time, Anne

Heather: was the one who had to be like, so you're getting your period.

Yeah. Because we're all synced up. Yeah. So like she knows. Yeah. And then she lost her shit yesterday and I was on the phone with her and I was like, oh man, here we go. Yeah.

Zoe: Well, working with women, I know it's the best, but like it's the best, but we just have to remember that. We're not, these feelings aren't real because they're just our periods.

Yeah.

Heather: Well, no one else has pissed me off. It's just like me pissing my own self off, you know? Yeah. It's like my [00:03:00] period makes me mad at myself self. Yeah. Well, it makes me more like vulnerable and sensitive. Oh, seriously sensitive. It's, and it's honestly gotten worse as I've gotten older. I think I've been more chaotic with my period.

Well, I'm gonna

Zoe: be off birth control now, so we'll see how it starting when? Well, I'm on my period right now, and then I'm not going to go on birth control after it's done crazy. I'm just going to use the OA wing. The OA wing. Yeah. But I feel like, I think it was Wednesday yesterday, or no, two days ago. I was feeling better.

Yeah. Finally it took, well, what happened a while to get what

Heather: happened last week with you?

Zoe: I think I was just stressed with some like personal stuff and then plus the doing the double and then, mm-hmm. Going Poopy. Poopy You okay? I don't like that. I didn't like that either. I don't like that. Okay, let's reset.

Oh God, I need a coffee. [00:04:00] Yeah, I think I'm coming. I am now alive and on the other side of my bad week. That's good. But that it just like, I've never felt that bad for a few months now. Mm. So I think it was just like really weird. Yeah. To be in that mood. Mm. Because I haven't been in it in a while. Yeah. It's pretty jarring.

It was jarring. I talked to my sponsor on Wednesday. We're gonna have a coffee next week and just like have a little chat. I haven't, I haven't sat down with her in a couple months. So maybe that could if sit down with her, her to have a chat. Will you be like doing step work or is it just chat? No, because I'm done the steps.

Okay. I'll talk to her about what's going on in my life and like maybe she'll tell me to do, like, write down another resentment or say sorry to someone or like. Right. If I'm in the wrong in any way of how I've been living. Um, but yeah, I feel like that will be good. I think we have a really exciting weekend.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Zoe: Stuff is happening. [00:05:00] I'm just like trying to look more on the positive side Yeah. Than on the shit week I had last week because it's over. Yeah. But it's really, it's been harder for me to do that lately.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Zoe: And I don't know why, honestly,

Heather: it's getting, I know I say this all the time, but it is getting dark.

Yeah. As fuck at 4:00 PM it's cold as hell. It's just, it's miserable. Yeah. And it is like a, a like a checkpoint. We all just have to like get through. Yeah. It's so hard. It's so hard. But also, again, like I, you are very good at processing and problem solving and like even more than that, just kind of being like, that's fine.

I'm gonna let it roll off my back. Yeah. But then I think sometimes. It builds up and you don't even know. And then you're like, oh shit. What the fuck is this backpack doing on me? Yeah. I

Zoe: think that's what's happened. And I think it's now like I'm in the process of letting that shit go. Yeah. Because I can't really do anything about it, but mm-hmm.

I think a lot of shit just piled [00:06:00] up and Yeah. Plus the fucking weather. Yeah. Canada sucks right now, so Canada sucks. We gotta get outta here. But these holiday drinks look amazing.

Heather: Ooh, woo. These

Zoe: holiday drinks look amazing. Just for reference. DJ and Maryanne. They're disgusting. They're disgusting. We hate you. One, we fucking hate it. It's horrible.

Heather: But it's okay 'cause I look pretty and Zoe's still gonna drink the whole thing somehow.

Zoe: Obviously. I'm still gonna drink the whole thing.

Hold on. Oh my. And we're doing acrobatics. What would you rate your mental right now? I think my mental is gonna be a five.

Heather: Okay.

Zoe: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm not like, horrible. I'm just, I'm ride riding the fucking wave.

Heather: Riding the wave. You got to, you gotta move with the universe sometimes. Yeah.

Zoe: And I'm trusting that everything's gonna be okay and I think I'm just, yeah.

Heather: Everything is

Zoe: always gonna be

Heather: okay. Yeah. Everything's always gonna be okay. There's always more time. There's always more tampons. True. It's [00:07:00] just, there's always coffee. How are you? Okay. Um, I think I'm irritated, but I think I'm good. I am, um, yeah. Wherever I am in my cycle right now. It's not like my favorite day, but I, I think I'm good.

I feel like a little, I don't know. I haven't thought about it yet. Hold on. Let me process how I'm feeling. Do one of those little, like, and we're back. I think I feel good. I, I, there's a lot of like good things. There's a good, there's good things in my life right now that are like surface level and I'm excited about Yeah, like men, but I also am trying to be like, cool about it.

But then also I feel like I'm like a girl. 'cause I'm getting like blushy and then I'm like really excited and nervous and like, I don't know, it's like really fun. But then that makes me nervous. I think that's where I am, right? I'm like, Ugh, I don't wanna like really like this person and then have it crash and burn.

Like I just. And I know everyone feels that [00:08:00] way. Mm-hmm. But I just don't wanna do it. I don't wanna deal with it, you know? So I'm hoping it doesn't crash and burn. 'cause it's, I'm like letting myself sink into it and it's nice. Yeah. But you also know now that you can handle shit when it crashes and burns.

Yeah.

Zoe: I can, I just

Heather: don't wanna deal with it. Yeah. I don't want to because I like, I like what's happening right now. It's like fun. I'm like, let's get through the holidays. Yeah. But I don't know. I think it's gonna be a really like romantic holiday. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Which is so fun. I haven't had that in like a long time.

Yeah. That's really exciting. I know. Ooh, you're gonna go to the Christmas bar with your boyfriend. I wanna go to Christmas bar. We're gonna, the Christmas bar. You're my boyfriend. Oh yeah. What's your, what's your boyfriend? I don't know. I don't know. I feel like I'm a five. I don't know why. I feel like I'm kind of in a bad mood, but I'm, I'm not in a bad mood.

I'm just hot. Yeah. I think I'm hot. You wanna

Zoe: take your shirt off and go

Heather: everybody? No, I don't have a, I don't have a shirt on.

Zoe: It's just try not to forward think it's going good. Yeah. There's no signs that it's gonna go in a bad [00:09:00] direction. Yeah.

Heather: Yeah.

Zoe: So take it as it's going. I

Heather: think like, yeah. It's so interesting.

Dating just is crazy.

Zoe: Okay.

Heather: Sober news. Sober news. We saw the inside of Paris Jackson's body last week. Yeah. That was crazy. Yuck. I liked it though. I thought she so cool. Yeah. You like

Zoe: gross things?

Heather: Well, I'd like when people are addicts and then they have like, they talk about their long-term effects of things, you know?

Yeah. And I don't have anything

Zoe: on my body that is from alcohol.

Heather: Yeah.

Zoe: Like

Heather: you didn't fall down, break an elbow. Now you have no elbow or anything?

Zoe: No, like my t. One of my baby toes was broken. And it looks different than the other one. It does one, but only it's this. I really notice this. Yeah. Okay. It's a little bit warm.

How'd you break your toe? I fell down the stairs. Yeah. Yeah. Classic with no shoes on? No. Yeah, it was in my house in Sarnia.

Heather: Oh. Oh God. Was anyone there?

Zoe: I think I was like going down the stairs to get more [00:10:00] booze from my brother. Probably stealing.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Zoe: And I don't remember falling down, but like they told me I fell down.

Yeah, yeah,

Heather: yeah,

Zoe: yeah, yeah. I just woke up the next morning and I was going to get outta bed to pee and I literally couldn't walk on my foot. Yikes. So then I stayed in bed for a while. Mm. And then I eventually like crawled to the bathroom to pee. That was the only time where I like left permanent damage on my body.

Like I have little scars all over. Yeah. But like, nothing that's like. Crazy. Oh my God,

Heather: I am so glad that I never got a tattoo in my, like drinking phase. Same. My first tattoo I got before I went nuts. Mm-hmm. And then everything else was post. Which thank God, because I feel like I, I was, I, I had so many like thoughts back then.

I'd be like, I should get like a tiger on my back. And then like, I would wake up and have dumb shit. Like I would have done dumb shit. Yeah. And I'm really glad that that just never happened. I had

Zoe: so many tattoo ideas, but I couldn't make a decision to save my life, thank God when I was drinking. So thank God that didn't [00:11:00] happen for me either.

I was gonna get like, you know how in a Sailor Jerry's rum bottle, like you can look through the bottle and there's like a, there's a naked lady on the inside. You were gonna get that Like a sailor girl Uhhuh. I was gonna get that with my dad and I was gonna get it on my thigh. Honestly. That's kind of cool.

It's, it's kind of trash. It's so trashy. But with your I was also gonna shark. Yeah. 'cause we both like, like that rum. Okay.

Heather: Interesting.

Zoe: Yeah, you're slowly

Heather: starting to hate my dad more and more.

Zoe: I don't hate

Heather: your dad at all. I just am like, what the fuck Yeah. Is going on? Like, I don't know, I just, it's, it's just fun 'cause I'm just like, yeah, dirt, dirt sometimes.

Yeah.

Zoe: That you're also, I'm sorry that I do that. Dirt and dirt and Well, yeah. I said that to my boyfriend this weekend. He was like, don't ever say that again. And I was like, I wonder why I said that. And then [00:12:00] he said it in boxing this week and I was like, that's where I got it from.

Heather: I've also, I've been doing dirt.

A dirt. And then also, like if I'm telling a story, I'm like, yeah. And then he's an addict and he went to rehab. Bing, bong, bing. And then, and then, yeah, bing bong banging. And I'm like, why are you doing that? No one knows what you're talking about. Like, it's just for me. No, I like

Zoe: it. I really like it. Bing bong.

Um, back to Paris Jackson. Yeah. My ex had a, is it called a deviate Septum. Yeah. Which is

Heather: a hole in the

Zoe: nose. Yeah. He had a hole in the nose and he could like

Heather: whistle through it through his nose. It's so nasty. Paris Jackson put, she said she could put a, a piece of spaghetti through it. Yeah. Through it. And that's just from snorting cocaine.

Yeah. And she got that when she was 20, so she must have been starting early.

Zoe: Yeah.

Heather: Yeah. I, which makes sense. I do wonder, I guess everyone is different. Yeah. I wonder if it's that same thing of like, some smokers just like, don't get lung cancer. Yeah. And like, or like alcoholics don't explode their livers, but I'm like, yeah.

How, how often are you doing coke? [00:13:00] That it's like just really damaging. Yeah. Now listen, that family doesn't have the best track record with their noses. Mm. Michael. Mm. Michael friend of the pod. Actually, no, not a friend of the pod. Not a friend of the pod, but, um, yeah, Paris Jackson. And, and then she, it was cute.

It was gross. But she was showing that video Yeah. Or showing her nose and like what happened. And essentially kind of doing like a jokey PSA Yeah. Of being like, don't do drugs, kids. Yeah. And then what'd she say? And then

Zoe: she was like, ah, but do drugs if you have to, if it's like your path to do it. Yeah.

She kind of went back on her. Yeah. Which is true. It's true. Like, um, we got a comment on one of our YouTube videos asking if

Heather: mm-hmm.

Zoe: We can talk about like, kids starting drugs too early. Yeah. And if they can experiment without getting addicted and it's like, yeah, you can, no, I don't

Heather: really know. But I would say that like, if you're, if you've got the addict gene, you're gonna get it.

Either way you've got it, you know? Yeah. Like. [00:14:00] Someone like my sister, like we're sisters. We have basically the same DNA, same parents, same experiences. She just doesn't have it. Yeah. She just really doesn't, maybe she would've if I wasn't such a fucking addict and she had time to like have mental illnesses and my brother

Zoe: like drinks a lot and isn't

Heather: Yeah.

An addict. Yeah.

Zoe: So it's, I

Heather: I don't think it has anything to do with trying it. Yeah. Or trying it too young. Exactly. Or I don't even think that drinking a lot in high school is indicative of an addiction down the line. Right?

Zoe: No, no. Because there's lots of people who were like drinking lots in high school and university.

Yeah. And then they get to 25 and they stop.

Heather: You know, we've talked about this before, like dare and like the guys that would come to my school with no legs and tell us about drinking and driving. And I do feel like that is such a far cry from like mm-hmm. Me trying booze in someone's basement at 14 to like getting in a car.

It's actually not that far apart, but like, it feels like maybe Paris Jackson's approach. I don't think this is what she was. She was just showing what happened to her. Yeah. But in turn, like [00:15:00] it's, it's accessible. It's an accessible way of teaching people about drugs because yeah. Everyone's gonna fucking do it.

Yeah. But also, by the way, watch what you're doing. Yeah. Because it, it's gonna fuck your face.

Zoe: Well, and I think that's what this podcast is as well. Like we just Oh, our podcast. Yeah, our podcast. I was like, Jackson, the podcast. Nope. Our podcast is just like warning people that like addiction is real. Yeah.

It can happen to anybody. Yeah. Um, I would say if you're like really young and you're experimenting with drugs and you're being a little bit crazy with it, and you think. It's, it's fine. It's just experimenting. I'm young, whatever. Yeah. I wouldn't use that as an excuse to not get sober. Mm-hmm. Like if you think you're going too far with it and you're like 17, 18 young, whatever, early twenties.

Yeah. Then you're probably taking it too far. Yeah. And I would say it's never too early to get sober and to switch your habits. Yeah. Um, I know lots of people in the rooms who [00:16:00] are like so young and they got sobriety so young. Yeah. Um, Mave Riley, that stylist who styled Hailey Bieber for a while. Yeah. She got sober at like 18, I think Bobby or

Heather: even younger.

Bobby Lee did too. He got sober at like 19. Yeah. And then relapsed like 20 years later. But that was like, but that makes sense to me. Mm-hmm. Because it's like, oh, I've been sober for 20 years. I was a kid. Yeah. Like, what the hell? But no, he's like, nevermind. I'm a lunatic. Yeah. Were your parents growing up?

They knew you were drinking at parties like they knew you were drinking.

Zoe: Yeah.

Heather: Mine didn't, and I wasn't drinking until 12th grade. But also, like Karen and I had a car that we were driving around. Yeah. And my dad did that in hopes that we would be the dd. Right. Like the designated driver and not drive and drink.

Mind you, I would never have done that. I was a, I literally got pulled over by a cop the other day. Mm-hmm. And then cried about it for like four hours to multiple people. Yeah. Like, holy shit guys. That was crazy. I told her about the King Street rule. I couldn't, I couldn't even text you that day. I dropped [00:17:00] Zoe off and less than two minutes later, not even, I was pulled over and I couldn't even text you about it because I was You were like, she told me so, but it wasn't even that.

'cause we were already on King Street. I know. And two cars ahead of me did the same thing. Yeah. I followed them. He asked me, the first thing, he tapped on my window and he said, what you can't read or something? And I was like. That's a crazy thing to say. Like the opening

Zoe: sentence Yeah. Of that. Yeah. I can't believe a cop opened a conversation with you.

I know. Starting with Oh, you can't read. I know. What a fucking

Heather: asshole I know. And, and I, I can't with men. Yeah. Like I lit to really can't. Yeah. So when that happens, I see red and I do wanna acknowledge my privilege in this because like mm-hmm. I was rude, but I don't really give a fuck. Like, he was rude to you first.

He was rude to me first, but he is also not gonna like shoot me in the face. Yeah. So I can kind of be like, excuse. Yeah. But I just kind of like looked at him and I said, yeah. And then like, didn't believe that I'd never been pulled over before. Didn't believe that that was my car. And then at the end of it, he like was like, I'm just here to educate you.

Why did you go [00:18:00] through that? Like, you're not allowed to go here. And I was like, oh, honestly, I know King Street is weird. I was a little confused. Those two guys in front of me, men went through and I followed them and he went, so if those two guys drove off a bridge, would you follow them? Oh my God. I took my sunglasses off and I said, I pulled, I pulled them on my head and I said.

Did you just ask me if I would commit suicide as a civil servant? Did you just ask me if I would do that?

Zoe: Yeah. Yeah.

Heather: And he kind of went, oh, you know what I mean? I'm, it's just a metaphor. And I said, not a great one when you're in this line of work. That's insane. And then I got a little nervous that he was gonna give me a ticket, but I was like, he didn't give me a ticket.

'cause, you know? But

Zoe: yeah, I don't really know why. I mean, I think they probably let people off with a warning sometimes with the King Street thing. Yeah. 'cause it is fucking confusing. It is. But I'm sure it's like if you get pulled over again for it, they probably would. But the married guy got pulled over.

Yeah. And got a ticket. Well, he's a man. He's a man.

Heather: I'm a little girl. He didn't get any more. [00:19:00] I'm a little girl and I can't read. No. So they're gonna let me off. Let me off. So at some point he wouldn't stop asking me like why I went through that intersection. Yeah. And I was like. Well, if it's not because I can't read, maybe it's 'cause I'm just stupid.

And he was like, oh, I wouldn't say that about yourself. And I'm like, oh my God, let's keep it moving. You were the worst. But I was also the worst in that situation. I did do something wrong, but at the end of the day, fuck off. Literally, you know? And then, and then there's like a guy fully tripping on Fentanyl, walking by me in the middle of the road with him, him with no shoes on.

I'm like, sir, yeah. Get that man a blanket. Yeah. Like what the, you're bothering me? Yeah. Yeah. I know I fucked up. But like this dichotomy is out of control.

Zoe: Yeah.

Heather: The other that's not

Zoe: great out there.

Heather: The other dichotomy that's outta control Zoe, is when all of my friends are like trying to get pregnant and I'm trying to do everything to not get pregnant.

I just wanted to throw that in there in your thirties. Isn't that weird? Yeah. Yeah. 'cause I guess like your friends aren't all trying to get pregnant right now?

Zoe: No, a lot

Heather: of mine are. Yeah. And it's weird [00:20:00] because

Zoe: no, none of my friends are trying to get pregnant.

Heather: I feel like we haven't talked about the birth control thing, but I feel like we.

Get on birth control so early. Mm-hmm. When did you go on it?

Zoe: Well, I got on it probably in like when I was maybe even 15. Mm. I got it from my high school. I didn't tell my parents at all. Like the high school nurse? Yeah, the high school would give it to me. I

Heather: didn't know they

Zoe: did. I know the high school or like

Heather: some guy in the alley

Zoe: behind them.

No, like the high, it wasn't a nurse. I don't know what it was. Yeah. I went there for Plan B too. Not for me, but I gave it to my friends. But they had like, it set up in the school that you could like get birth control plan Bs or whatever. Wait,

Heather: that's, oh, you didn't go to Catholic school? No. Right, right, right, right, right, right.

No. Did you guys have condoms in the bathrooms? Yeah. Oh yeah. We know. I didn't. Um, we had pictures of Jesus. That's crazy, dude. I know. I like public school. Yeah. I like it. It was good for you. You did well. And this is how we end up. Listen, listen. She would've been an addict either way. Okay. She's got the gene.

Zoe: Exactly. [00:21:00] No. Um. I started it probably when I was 15 and then I got off of it for some reason. Mm-hmm. Like you were trying to get pregnant? No, I just like got off of it. 'cause I was like, oh, I've been on it for too long. This is when I was drinking still. Um, probably in my second last year of my drinking career.

I got off of it. Guess what? I got pregnant. Oh, that's my, yeah. Oh shit. And then, so let's try it again. And then I didn't get back on it. Okay. I think I just was more careful.

Heather: Oh.

Zoe: And then when I, after I got out of rehab, that's when I got on birth control.

Heather: Yeah. You're like, let's make some better decisions starting with my insides.

Yeah. Yeah. I, it is interesting now because I'm in it with my friends mm-hmm. And people trying to get pregnant and having. A difficult time. Yeah. I am wondering. I'm like, is it because everyone went on birth control at 14 for their acne? Yeah. Or their cramps. Yeah. And that's the other thing. One of my friends, hi, she, I think it's like she had a very, very heavy period mm-hmm.

In high school and [00:22:00] so did her mom. Mm-hmm. And so they put her on birth control. Right. But you're not like, and I don't know, I'm not in her body, but I doubt they did like a lot of research. Mm-hmm. And like testing to be like, why is this happening to you? Yeah. It was like a catchall to give everyone birth control.

And now she's at doctor's appointments all the time trying to figure out her hormones. Yeah. And like why she's having trouble getting pregnant. And it's like, when did she get off birth control? Like recently? Recently? Yeah. When they were trying to get

Zoe: pregnant. Yeah. I'm glad I'm off of it now. Yeah. And I'm never gonna get back on it.

Heather: But it is, it's just another thing I find that adds so much pressure to women. Yeah. That's like, it's like. Get on birth control, make men happy. Don't fuck them, be a virgin. Be pure, but also you have to fuck them, but you can't get pregnant. If you get pregnant. You have to have that baby, but then you're kind of trash.

Mm-hmm. And then, okay, go on birth control. But now we have to get pregnant and that's our one job in the world and we can't do that. Mm-hmm. Because you fuckers put me on birth control at a really young age, and no one knows what's going on. It just feels like an added layer. Yeah, yeah. Even

Zoe: now, like [00:23:00] I am now, I'm on one now, I'm gonna get on.

Now I'm using my OA ring and I can only. Sorry to any of my family who's gonna listen to this. I'm only gonna be able to get cued in for like eight days out of the month. No, literally. Literally No. Literally. And it sucks. And no, it's gonna suck. Like I feel bad for him. Yeah. That he's not gonna be able to

Heather: I'm so

Zoe: sorry.

Come ahead of me.

Heather: I think I'll be fine. 'cause I feel like they also like to see their come on our bodies. No,

Zoe: I like to see their come on the bodies too. Me too. But come on, the bodies

Heather: come on bodies. I wanna see it. Come on. The bodies come on. The bodies are going out. Okay. She's finally awake. I wow. That hurt.

At the beginning. At the beginning of this episode, I was in pain. Yeah, I know. I don't know what that, that's not good for my body to not be this.

Zoe: Um, but yeah. But it is all on the woman to figure out the birth control thing and

Heather: Well, I was just with my friends. I was with my friend Yes. The other day. And she had a baby and he's so cute.

I held him a [00:24:00] lot. Every time she put him back in his little. Foun thing. I would, and she would go to the bathroom or something. I would just, you would get, I'm like, I don't care. Give me this guy. He's so nice, baby. He's so chill and cute. Yeah. And I am so thrilled and grateful to give that baby back at the end of the day.

Yeah. Not because of him. I love him, but I'm like, yo. Yeah. Couldn't be me. But we were chatting about sex and I was like, have you had, literally my first question to her every single time I talked to her is like, how is your vagina? Yeah. Because I'm like, you pushed a baby out. Mm-hmm. What's going on? And I asked her, I was like, have you guys had sex yet?

Because I think their baby's like three months old. And she was like, no, but like I should. And I was like,

Zoe: oh God. I'm like, you should. I'm like, it's so hard to be a woman. Yeah. Like, she thinks that she should be having sex.

Heather: Well, yeah. 'cause she's like, it's been, I feel like she's counting the days now where she's like, oh God, like I have to do it.

Mm-hmm. And I don't, it's not 'cause she's not attracted to her partner, but she literally just gave birth. Yeah. And like for me to have sex, I have to be feeling so good about myself. Yeah. And like not have just had a trauma to my [00:25:00] vagina. Mm-hmm. And I'm just like. Damn. And then it's again, like you're now Yeah.

And then

Zoe: another pressure on her. Yeah.

Heather: Yeah. I'm like, oh my God, I don't, I can't do this shit. Yeah. I'm not doing it. I can't. It's too much. Women are literally warriors. Yeah. And I don't know how any of you are doing it. That's crazy. It's crazy. I don't know. But I guess the point of all of that is like teaching your kids, like what is, what should parents do?

Mm-hmm. I think that's why I asked you. Right. I do understand that that birth control conversation got away from me, but I do think it might be a good one. Yeah. Like what do you think? Like what is more detrimental? Like, because I, I think all parents are just trying to do their best and like sometimes kids when they're like, oftentimes if they're like, don't drink.

Yeah. It's like l, LL. Well, I think like

Zoe: that's what my parents did, right? They were like, don't drink, don't drink.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Zoe: Um, well, they were, they didn't start with the don't drink, don't drink. But I think quickly they realized that I was drinking. To [00:26:00] excess. Yeah. And they wanted to like try to limit that.

And then when they tried to, that's when I got super defensive and was like, what the fuck? You guys can't control me. Yeah. You guys moved me to Sarnia. I don't wanna fucking be here.

Heather: And then, you know what, multiple people have spoken to me about that. About that being such a trigger. Yeah. And like when I think in one of the episodes, probably when you were telling your story Yeah.

You said something like, I don't have like a trauma. Or Like a trauma. Or we have different traumas kind of. Yeah. That it's like, oh, that was my

Zoe: trauma.

Heather: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think like obviously I don't, I'm not in your body, but like I think it actually is a lot bigger than you even recognize it or let yourself recognize.

'cause hearing it out loud, I'm like, oh my God. Yeah. You were ripped from everything you knew and then had to make new. That's crazy. You know? Yeah. I know. I just like.

Zoe: But why can people move places? Mm-hmm. And then not have that, you know, like my [00:27:00] dad, he says like he was moving 10 plus times when he was a child.

He didn't become a fucking alcoholic. Yeah. Like, why can people move place to place without getting this addiction? Yeah. That's why I'm like, I don't like to blame it on that because it's like. People fucking move all the time. It's not the reason why I started drinking and using too extreme,

Heather: but it's not, not,

Zoe: it's not, not, it's not, not, it's just one of the many factors

Heather: that Yeah.

Have I also helps me, I do this sometimes too because I think that that idea what you just said, like why can other people do it and I can't. It's like you're not weak because Yeah. You can't handle it.

Zoe: No, and I'm not saying I'm weak. No, no. Yeah. I'm just saying that other people can do this. Yeah. So like I don't wanna put that blame on like, I'm an addict because I moved to Sarnia at No, no.

Going into grade nine.

Heather: But I think things line up. Yeah, right. Like that did affect you. Mm-hmm. In a way, like there are things from my childhood. If that didn't, if, [00:28:00] if I didn't go to private school mm-hmm. I'm still an addict. Yeah. Still I would've been,

Zoe: yeah.

Heather: That was an added layer. Yeah. That gave me something to drink about eventually For sure.

And to panic for the rest of my life about. I a little bit think yours is harder. Yeah. 'cause you're like, there's no way I'm gonna blame it on that. Yeah. Everybody moves. I'm not gonna be the person who can't fucking handle it. Yeah. And then have to drink about it. But I'm like, no. I think actually a lot of people struggle in that way.

Yeah. And then some people kill themselves. Some people stay inside and do shit. Fucking all.

Zoe: Yeah.

Heather: You know, I, everyone handles things where also you're a kid.

Zoe: Yeah. So I think it was definitely one of the many factors. Yeah. That contributed for sure. Um, it was fucking hard. Yeah. And like Sarnia when I was in high school, like, was so weird.

Like Yeah. I knew at least four people who killed themselves in Sarnia, who my brother's girlfriend being one of them. And I used, used to figure skate

Heather: with her, like I knew her. Yeah. So that kind of thing when like kids in high school would trigger warning, kill themselves. Yeah. [00:29:00] It's like. Okay. Well if you think about those people and you're like, why couldn't they handle it?

Yeah. It's like, whoa. Like there's no blame on those kids. It's like, it's obvious. It's also not that they couldn't handle it, it's like whatever they were going through in their brain chemistry lined it up so that like they, their, they, their brains and their souls couldn't handle it anymore. And had they had to go,

Zoe: well, like when I first moved to Sarnia, I was making friends and they were like all talking about this one girl.

And I was like, who's that girl? And they were all like, oh, she killed herself last year.

Heather: Yeah.

Zoe: So like, I moved there and fully knowing that the year before that someone killed themselves and then this girl, yeah. What the fuck? This girl step also killed herself when I was in high school. And like just so many, it was like a thing of Sarnia when I was living there.

Heather: Yeah. Yeah.

Zoe: It was like. But then people would do it and then we would like talk shit about them. How like they couldn't handle it. Of course, of course. And like it was just such a toxic high school experience. My friends cutting themselves, my friends having eating disorders [00:30:00] and going to the hospital. Yeah.

It's like none of it was healthy for me. Like it was Yes. Moving to Sarnia, but my fucking high school experience there. Yeah. Was literally like skins like Yeah. That's why I liked that show so much. And I think that's why I fantasized my life so much because I was like, literally, this is what's happening to me and all around me in high school.

Heather: So maybe the question for parents isn't like, how do I handle my child when they wanna start experimenting with drinking and substances? It's like. What the fuck else is going on with your kid? How are they feeling? How are they feeling about going to this party? Do they feel scared? Do they feel like they're gonna get left out?

Are they being invited? Are they showing up alone? Like

Zoe: Yeah. I ask them

Heather: what's going on. The drinking and the alcohol is a symptom Yes. Of what's going on, right? Yes,

Zoe: exactly. Right. If I felt like I could talk to my parents at all in high school, I would've, but I didn't feel like I could probably, because there was some distance there.

Yeah. And they didn't know how to approach me and get to the bottom of my [00:31:00] feelings. Yeah. Which is not on them. They didn't know what the fuck they were doing at the time either.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Zoe: But I think if you can just like try to be there emotionally for your kid Yeah. And get them to like be close with you emotionally.

Yeah. Then maybe you guys can talk about why they're going to substances. Yeah. Instead of. Talking about it.

Heather: Yeah. 'cause it's a thing that your parents do too. Yeah. Like your parents are fucking, your parents are drinking. Yeah. They smoked weed. They know they've been through it. Yeah. And I, I think with kids too, and not to say it's too late for some of your parents, but it's like you have to create an environment in your home.

Mm-hmm. Like you just said, that your kids can come and talk to you. Yeah. And they don't have to lie. And when they have a crush on someone, they tell you about it. Mm-hmm. When someone's a fucking bitch. When they're a bitch. Yeah. I came home and I was like, I called Christina bitch to her fucking face today.

Yeah. Like, yeah. It's not the end of the world. I had what you had. [00:32:00] I, I felt very much like, and I put more of this on myself than my parents ever did, but I was like, I'm gonna be in trouble for any choice I ever make in life. Right. So like, I'm not telling anyone anything. Yeah. You

Zoe: internalized everything that was going on to you.

And then I was like, it's all your fault. Yeah. It's lit. I was the victim in everything. Yeah. And you knew you were a victim in area. Oh yeah. So you couldn't play the victim. But I did. Yeah. But I don't know. Did you? As much as I did. Well, like I feel like you didn't blame as much people as I did. I feel like I was very like, it's your fault.

I hate you. Like whatever. I,

Heather: yeah. Okay. That's a good, that is a good analysis. I think. Like I blamed people, but I did also blame myself a lot. Yeah. Like I knew from a very young age that I was a piece of fucking shit. Or a loser. Yeah. I don't think

Zoe: I ever blamed myself. Okay. I was always blaming other people.

Heather: I would do, I remember, I'm just like thinking of one instance, I don't even know what we were fighting about. We were at dinner [00:33:00] and my sister was already in college, so it was just me and my mom and my dad and I got up from dinner for some reason. Probably. 'cause I, they honestly, I probably got a call home for not doing homework or something.

Zoe: Yeah.

Heather: When I was like 16, leave me alone. And I got up from the table and I was like, fuck you. You guys have no fucking idea what it's like to have no friends and be a loser and not know what to wear. And like all this sh and I was, and I would explode randomly. Mm-hmm. With all of it. Like I Yeah. So it's built up.

Yeah. Yeah. I just, what could not handle anything. Yeah. And then I would kind of be mean to people at dance. 'cause I was like, how dare you. Mm-hmm. You know? But I think thinking back to that time, it's a lot of turmoil and a lot of chaos and a lot of like not knowing what to do with it. Yeah. So even before the alcohol substance conversation, because those are things that we're going to be hiding from our parents.

Yeah. We just are. Yeah. 'cause also they say Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Fuck you. I'm not,

Zoe: or in like Tony's situation, collective arts, who we just had on, like they were supplying her alcohol. [00:34:00] Yeah. So, I don't know. Either way, I think. Kids are gonna dabble with Yeah. Drinking and using. Yeah. It's just, you gotta have, make sure your kid has some support.

If they're not coming to you, make sure they're going to someone else. Yeah. To talk about how they're feeling and how they're coping.

Heather: Yeah. I think like the easy things too, that we can say to kids, it's like, don't get in a car with somebody that's been drinking. Don't drink and drive. Have a dd. That's the other thing.

Mm-hmm. If I'm fucked up somewhere mm-hmm. And I don't have a way to get home, I'm gonna need to call my mom. Mm-hmm. And I didn't think that I could have done that back then. Yeah. Me neither. So I would've been fucked. I was fine. I never had a situation like that where I was trapped, but like, you have to make your kids feel safe.

Yeah. It's like the only relationship that's, it's the most important relationship. Yeah. So I think even before the drinking and the drugs, it's the like, what kind of relationship do I have with my kid and how can I support them? Because they're going to be experimenting either way. Yeah. And you don't know if they're gonna be an addict or not.

Zoe: Yeah.

Heather: [00:35:00] You know?

Zoe: And I think, um. I was just like such a kid that was like, oh, if you do the, like, don't do this. If someone said, don't do that to me, I was gonna do it. Yeah. Oh my God. Like, I don't fucking care what it was, I was gonna do it. Did I ever tell you about, talking about like the DDS in cars and stuff?

Did I ever tell you about the time that I got my ex-boyfriend's mom to pee in a cup for me?

Heather: I think so. But could you please retell

Zoe: it? Okay. I love

Heather: this just because like, yes, like

Zoe: I, so many

Heather: things about this story,

Zoe: I'm like, what the fuck? I did have a car, but my parents did know I was drinking and like smoking a lot of weed, so they would randomly piss test me sometimes.

Oh. So that I could drive and I obviously failed the test once. Mm-hmm. And then I wasn't allowed to drive for like maybe a month. And then Is this after a DUI or before? No, this was before. This was before. This was in high school. Oh, right, right. Okay. This was in high school. And after a month, I like was going [00:36:00] do another piss test to see if I could get my car back.

So I asked my ex-boyfriend's mom to pee in a cup for me. What was in your pee weed, I guess, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, I don't, maybe Molly, but like, probably not, maybe, I think it was just weed. Yeah. Um, but she ended up pee in a cup for me and it was like a baby bottle. 'cause that was like the only to-go cup she had.

So she, she's one of us a baby bottle for me. No. 'cause she was sober. She's like, doesn't really drink or smoke weed. Whoa. And is she sober, like sober? Like was she tick? No, no, no. Okay. Okay. She like drank sometimes. Okay. But then I took it home with me and then I used that for the pee and I passed and then I could drive.

That's, sorry mom. Brilliant. Yeah.

Heather: I. Love that story. I also really need to understand what that mom, what your ex-boyfriend's mom was thinking.

Zoe: Mm-hmm.

Heather: Because, well, she was [00:37:00] literally like, she, because if you were gonna go home and get the life, what's those type

Zoe: of people who just like live on welfare?

She's, she was a welfare mom.

Heather: Oh, welfare mom. Yeah. Okay.

Zoe: So I think she was just like, yeah, whatever.

Heather: Yeah. Like her life is obviously chaotic. Yeah. To a point where like, that isn't a bad thing. Normal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's fine to do. I, um, it's not, and I think that that is probably a really similar feeling to like, people when you go to someone's house and they like, nobody drinks.

Yeah. And you're like, what the fuck? There's no alcohol at dinner. Yeah. Or like, people giving alcohol to their kids for parties. To me, I'm like, that's nuts to me. I'm like, peeing in a cup for someone's kid is crazy. Yeah. If you were gonna go home and get like the living shit beat out of you, then I'd be like, yeah, I'll piss in that cup for you, babe.

Don't worry. Well, I think that's

Zoe: probably how I presented it to her. I was probably like, okay, I need this. Figured it out. Like I also like need to drive.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Zoe: Please help me. Yeah. And were you nervous to ask? No, I think like, I felt like safe with her. Yeah. To be honest. You're like, I [00:38:00] know the answer. Like, I didn't feel safe at home, so I felt like safer at my boyfriend's house.

Heather: Damn. Yeah. That's like a lot. Yeah. I, well, it's kind of like the question of like, if your kid came to me and they were like, I'm pregnant and I don't wanna be. Mm-hmm. I'd be like, do I tell Zoe? Mm-hmm. What is this situation? You know, it's different, but it's, I think

Zoe: you could tell me after the fact even, or would you not tell me at all and wait for my kid to tell me?

Heather: I don't know. I would, I would probably, I. Ask you, hi. So something's come up. Mm-hmm. And it's about your kid and she's safe and she's fine and she's healthy. Mm-hmm. I need to know if this is okay. I don't think I can take your kid to a medical procedure. I think without telling you, I don't know. I mean, I think we should have

Zoe: these conversations when I have a kid of like, I feel like it's great to have now.

Okay, well we're set up for it. I think that you can be my [00:39:00] kid's mom. Like if she's not coming to me and she's coming to you like I'm gonna cry thinking about this.

Heather: I also realize that when you have a kid, the kid is gonna be a baby for a long time. Like you're not gonna have a Yeah, it's gonna a 16 year long time.

Are

Zoe: you crying right now? I don't think so.

Heather: Oh no. Everything is chaos.

Zoe: Wait,

Heather: what are you crying about? If your kid didn't wanna come to you, this is not gonna happen. Your kid's gonna love you. Your kid's gonna get pregnant just so they can come and tell you about it. I

Zoe: need to fix my makeup.

Heather: What happened? I dunno.

Okay. Everybody, we've, uh, lunatics,

Zoe: my baby's gonna come to you.

Heather: Oh, you are? These are happy tears. Oh. Oh, okay. Okay. Oh my God. This, this, oh no.

Zoe: I'm so sorry.

Heather: No, I loved it. I don't know what that was.

Zoe: Gimme a second.[00:40:00]

Heather: Are you just excited to have a

Zoe: baby? No.

Heather: What happened there?

Zoe: I think it's just like, yeah, I would suck if my baby came to you and it's not me. That won't happen. I would be, if it, if it does it, it's hilarious. Whatever that thing. If it does, then I would rather you. I want her to be able to trust you still.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And not have you rat her out to me.

Heather: I also know your politics and I know your lack of religion, so I know what your answer would be. Yeah. Like I think if you were super Catholic, we wouldn't be this close. Yeah. But I think that I'd be like, I don't know babe. 'cause Jesus is also watching and Zoe gives a fuck.

Yeah. You know, but that's not the situation. So I think, I guess I'd be like, get start the court. Yeah. So you can, yeah. You don't need to tell me. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Future baby Zoe. Watch it. Watch it. Um, yeah, but I guess that's a good wrap up with the kids. Don't drink.

Zoe: No. Yeah. I, yeah, if you're gonna drink, know that.

[00:41:00] This can happen to you. Yeah. Addiction is real.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Zoe: And be careful. And if you are drinking, and if you think like, oh, like maybe I am an addict already and I'm 17, that's fine. Get sober. Can we talk about something

Heather: else too on that same vein, talking to your kids about the mental illnesses that are in your family?

Yeah. Including addiction is so important and I do feel like we're the first generation truly to do that. Yeah. We don't have children. Not yet. But when your kid comes to me, don't make me cry again, talking to your kids about the mental illnesses in your family. Yeah. Obviously that's not easy for our parents.

Their, you know, their parents went to the war. Well, yours didn't, but

Zoe: Right. Yours didn't either. My

Heather: parents' parents did. Yeah. That's what I mean. Yeah. They were raised by war people, parents. Yeah. Yeah. So they don't know Yeah. About feelings and being allowed to express those feelings, but. There is so much fucking alcoholism in my family.

Yeah. So much. And I wasn't able to [00:42:00] make those connections. My grandma drank wine out of teacups all day mm-hmm. And was passed out on the floor. But it was never stated to us that like she's an addict. Yeah. And like, I bet you if my mom and dad like reflected on some of her behavior, just in general not drinking mm-hmm.

They probably could have been like, oh, that's very similar to Heather. Yeah. Or like, my dad's dad is like, he was like the, the party clown. Like he walked into any room and he was on and he was ready to go, and then he would crash and get depressed. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, hi. Yeah. How did we not notice? It's totally you.

It's me. Yeah. And I think they weren't also able to make the connection that that is something going on in your brain Yeah. That isn't super healthy and safe.

Zoe: Yeah. I think like when we have, if we, if you have kids, if I have kids, like we will tell them like. I don't drink like mommy doesn't drink because she's a crazy person.

Yeah. Literally crazy person. Mommy and

Heather: Auntie Zoe can't drink. Okay. When we do, we'll burn everything to the ground.

Zoe: Yeah.

Heather: And then she'll have sex with my husband. It'll be a whole thing. Yeah. But we'll [00:43:00] probably already be doing that. Yeah. We'll be doing that. Fine. I don't know if it would've necessarily helped me, but in terms of talking to your kids about alcohol and drugs, there is so much more.

Mm-hmm. Like my eating disorders, that's huge in my family. Mm-hmm. And everyone knows, like everyone could see it. Yeah. It's like very obvious. Then again, I made it really difficult for my parents. If they had said anything to me about eating, I would've lost my shit and flipped the table and told them to go fuck themselves.

So yeah, they can't talk to me. But that relationship wasn't fostered at a young age to be able to like, to be able to express your emotions and then you hold it all in and then you have eating disorders and then you get into drugs and it's a whole thing. Yeah. So, yeah, I think,

Zoe: yeah, focusing on the relationship is number one because they're gonna,

Heather: the episode that came out last week with Leah, or this past week with Leah, she.

One of her, her big, her original focus in her practice was mothers and daughters. Yes. Yeah. So I do want her to come on and like, talk to us about that as a thing. Oh my God. I'll probably cry a hundred percent. Yeah. But I just think it's so interesting 'cause it's, it's never, I mean, I love [00:44:00] my parents. It would never be to rag on my parents or your parents.

It's about like, who we are, what has happened to us, and how we move forward kind of. Yeah. And like those intricacies. 'cause it's not, it can't be easy to be a fucking mom. No,

Zoe: of course not. Mm-hmm. Of course not.

Heather: Okay. Somebody is sober. No. Zach

Zoe: Bryan. Zach. Bryan is two months sober. He said on Instagram a couple days ago.

Yeah. Um, when the whole Zach Bryan, Brianna chicken fry thing went down. That was like what, two years ago? That was like last year, I think to

Heather: last year. Yeah. Because the, there was also the grace O'Malley fight. Yeah. And that happened after

Zoe: that happened after, yeah. Okay. I think. The Zach, Brian, and Brianna chicken fry thing happened like a year ago.

Okay. Um, so

Heather: Brianna Chicken Fry is like a social media person. Yeah. She had a podcast. She's a TikTok Baring bar stool Bar Stool sports. Yeah. She had a podcast with Grace O'Malley. They're best friends. Mm-hmm. We're best friends.

Zoe: Mm-hmm.

Heather: Then she was also dating Zach Bryan. Zach Bryan. I keep wanting to say Luke Bryan.

Yeah. Luke Bryan's the other one. Ah, yeah. They're all the [00:45:00] same. They're all the same. Um, Zach Bryan and Brianna Chicken Fry had like, made a post. She was supposed to sign an NDA right? Yeah. When they broke up.

Zoe: Yeah. So they broke up. Zach Bryan offered her $10 million to sign an NDA instead. Brianna came out and was like, I'm not signing Zach Ryan's NDA.

He basically was like a terrible person. Um, she said that she wasn't gonna call him out on specific things that happened because like she didn't wanna do that either. But she wanted, she didn't wanna just sign an NDA and never talk about it again. Yeah. Like she wanted. To claim the situation as her own and like, which I think was cool that she didn't be like, fuck you, I don't want your $10 million.

This is everything. This is receipts that you did to me. Mm-hmm. 'cause like that, that's all you need to know. If some girl doesn't sign an NDA Yeah. And comes out with it, that's literally all you need to know. I don't need the fucking [00:46:00] specifics that I know he was a bad person. End of story. Yeah. When that came out, I was like, oh yeah, he's definitely an addict because of all the drinking that they would do together.

Yeah. Um, and if it went bad too, like addiction is definitely, probably prevalent here. Mm-hmm. Um, his last girlfriend signed an NDA. Oh, she did? Okay. Yeah, the last girlfriend did because Brianna went to talk to her about it and like, she couldn't really say anything because she did sign the NDA. If

Heather: I sign an NDA.

Mm-hmm. It's $10 million. He pays me 10 million. I signed this NDA, but you were horrible to me. Yeah. Okay. So what, what happens if I talk about it or write a tell all or like talk about it in a podcast? I think you just get sued. You're gonna

Zoe: sue me. Yeah. You fucked up. Yeah. Gonna sue me. Well, like that's what

Heather: the NDA all states, you know?

But then I feel like, then I feel like you have to go to court because then it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, but then you don't wanna go to court. I know, but it just seems so dumb. But you, you hit it. You hit the [00:47:00] nail on the head with that. Yeah. Because it's like asking someone not to talk about something and paying them to do so.

Yeah. It's like, what the fuck did you do? Mm-hmm. By the way, $10 million is so much money. Yeah. Like, what the fuck did you do? Also, how much money do you have? It's a lot of money. Well, no, he has a lot of money, I guess, but $10 million to like give someone to shush. Yeah. Holy shit. That's Trump shit.

Zoe: Yeah. I don't like it.

Um, so then that happened, and then there was the story that came out with them around a campfire. I think Grace O'Malley talked about this, or maybe it was Breonna who talked about it. But basically, I think Brianna tried to go to bed early that night. They were all in a cottage. Yes. And Zach and Grace and all of the friends were sitting around a campfire.

Something happened and then like Zach came back out with Brie and started just shit talking All of her friends. Yes. And was being a crazy person in front of all of them. Which feels like cocaine to me. [00:48:00] Yeah. Or like PCP or it also just feels like a fucking angry drunk. Yeah, you're right. I think it's just an angry drunk.

I don't know if, it doesn't seem like he does drugs. It seems like he's just like, he baby. He did, right. He just said kind of the alcohol thing. It seems like he's just like an angry fucking country boy drunk. Yeah. You know?

Heather: Yeah.

Zoe: Um, when that all came out, I was like, oh, definitely he's an addict. That was

Heather: crazy.

Zoe: I wish that they released that footage. 'cause I really wanna know what it said. Oh, he paid them all? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He probably paid the friends and not Brianna. 'cause Brianna could talk about that. Grace couldn't. Okay. Yeah. Did Grace sign a $10 million? NDA Grace probably signed something. Damn. Grace doesn't have as much money of Spree, so mind

Heather: you, it's like.

Like if this is an isolated incident and someone like, has a drunk freak out. I get it. You, he has a lot of pressure in his life. Like, you don't want that getting out. I get that. That he must been doing this a lot. But that's the thing, right? Yeah. To come out and scream at your girlfriend's friends. Oh, is so [00:49:00] beyond the first time you've done that.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Like you've done this before. Yeah. You scream. What are you scream You probably screaming at Brianna. Yeah. You know, why is she called chicken fry? I have no idea. I don't like it at all. I don't like it at all. I just don't like food associated with me. Yeah. You don't like the food? No. But um, I, he came out recently re Yeah.

Like this last week. Right? And said, yeah, I'm sober. Yeah. I've like done some bullshit. Basically just that which, okay. My first thought

Zoe: is like

Heather: mm-hmm. Good.

Zoe: And

Heather: yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Zoe: Always. And which it's also. I don't know, like if he would've said that as soon as everything went down mm-hmm. I would've been like, oh, you're only doing this to save your, um, save your identity.

Yeah. And save your save face. Save face. Yeah. Um, save face is what I just said. Save, save. There's another word. Yeah. But I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is either right now, but I agree with don't fucking care.

Heather: No, I've never cared. Ow

Zoe: care. Don't care what you guys say. [00:50:00] Um, so I think if he would've done it as soon as all the bullshit went down, I would've been like, Ugh.

This is just what you're doing to save yourself. Yeah. He are. Um, but the fact that he's doing it now is a little bit more telling of like, okay. He's like obviously thought about Yeah. What he's done and now is deciding to finally get on this sober train. Mm-hmm. He ended it, hit the statement off being like, I don't know if this is gonna be for like.

Another week, a few months or forever. Yeah. But this is just what I need to do right now. What? Which is funny

Heather: that he had to write that down. Yeah. 'cause that's like what we say to ourselves in our head when we're trying to get sober or when we get sober. But I'm like,

Zoe: you felt the need to write

Heather: it.

Zoe: No, I was just like picking apart what he wrote to see if I think that he's in the program or not.

Heather: Oh, yeah.

Zoe: And I don't, there was not like tells tale signs that he is

Heather: Yeah. I didn't say any either.

Zoe: Yeah. But, uh, because he didn't mention God, I don't think either. And I He did at the end. Oh, did. But he is like a country boy. I think that he's a God person at That's what I mean. I feel like [00:51:00] he's

Heather: Catholic or Christian.

He is not like from aa. God.

Zoe: Yeah. No. Yeah.

Heather: But I guess I think it's good, right? Like it is good if you're a drunk and an addict and you're, or you're a drunk and you are aggressive and angry and you're hurting people's feelings and it ruined your relationship and it almost blew. Do you know that he's dating a girl

Zoe: right now that looks exactly like Brian?

Did you know that? I don't think so. Okay. They're literally twins. And this is another thing I wanna bring up, like guys do that all the time.

Heather: Yeah. There's

Zoe: not one girl I know, celebrity or not, who has dated the exact same guy twice. Like, why do you guys do that? Oh my

Heather: God. No. You have like Ariana Grande dating like everyone every from like every inch of the earth.

Zoe: Oh, she does look like her. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and they started dating like basically like four months after the whole shebang went down. And I also wonder

Heather: too, like empathy all around that [00:52:00] girl. Is she really young? I wonder if she's really young, but she, what are you fucking thinking? Yeah. Because yeah, I don't wanna be friends with Brianna Chicken Fry.

I don't think we have nothing in common really. But like mm-hmm. What are you doing? Yeah. You know what happened, you know, everything that went down. I know. So I'm like, what is your dad? Like, how were you raised? What do you want out of life? What is the value to you? Yeah. Is aggressive drinking not as scary to you?

Yeah. You know, could be. Has he not been triggered in front of you yet? Yeah. To where you're thinking, oh, it was probably Brianna that made him crazy. He hasn't ever freaked out at me when he is drinking. Yeah. It's fine. He's going to throw you through a wall. Well, that's what

Zoe: narcissists do too, right? Like they treat you so nice and then when they have you, they start treating you like, shit.

Heather: just had this conversation too. Yeah. Of someone you know, that you're like, oh, they were being nice. Yeah. And it's like, why are they being nice? [00:53:00] Yeah.

Zoe: Scary.

Heather: Yeah.

Zoe: I, um, yeah. So that's like a whole other side of it. Sure. The new girlfriend aspect. Yeah. But yeah, I think my thought is. Great. And like, I think, not to say like, yes, he's an alcoholic, but he obviously needs to stay sober.

Heather: Yeah.

Zoe: Like, oh, he cannot handle it. Come on. He cannot handle it from the stories that we, from only the stories that we know. Mm-hmm. And there's probably so many others that Brianna could tell. Yeah. He doesn't need to be one to be mixing substances into that brain of his

Heather: No, no. He can't handle it. Like he really can't.

Yeah.

Zoe: Yelling is crazy. Zach, if you wanna come on the podcast, I would love to talk to you. Yeah. We would love to talk to him. And I would love to like be able to like listen to his music again. 'cause I haven't Mm. I stopped all Zach Bryant music last year. I'm, yeah.

Heather: I'm good

Zoe: on that actually. I like, sometimes I like a country music vibe.

Sure. To

Heather: be honest, I was listening to Sha Shania Twain yesterday. [00:54:00] We love that. A feel like woman. But yeah, I'm, I'm good on Zach Bryant. Like, I don't need to ever listen to his music. I don't listen to my Michael Uncle Jackson's music. I'll never listen to Diddy. Nothing but like. Yes. Good. And keep it going.

Yeah. You did a bad thing. You are a drunk. You have to stop.

Zoe: Yeah.

Heather: That's good. It's not incredible. We're not, yeah. We're not amazed by you, but like Well, that's

Zoe: the thing, like when people get sober and they're like, oh, I'm sober two months. Mm-hmm. I'm not gonna be like, oh, I forgive you for everything you've ever done.

My friend who is sober for a couple months mm-hmm. And then relapse, like mm-hmm. She, I was not hanging out with her yet. Yeah. I wasn't like, two months isn't able to prove that you are Yeah. Sober. Yeah. Enough for me to be able to hang out with you yet. No, the work hasn't even really started yet. Exactly.

Tell me when you're year sober and we can hang out.

Heather: Yeah. However good on you, Zach. Yeah. You obviously can't handle your alcohol. You fucked up. You were dangerous. You were scary. You scared the shit outta women. Yeah. And you're, you've been acting like an asshole. So good, [00:55:00] good and good. And keep it going babe.

Zoe: Love it. So Heather, I was thinking last night when I was going to bed, I was thinking about how we haven't talked about. Your breakup. Oh, did you wanna talk about a little bit of that today? What if I

Heather: was like, no, bye. I'd be like, oh, okay. I actually didn't even realize we haven't talked about it. Just 'cause I, I just think that you guys are with me all the time.

Yeah. Like, I assume that when we are not here, they're still with us. Yeah, I know. I like, oh no, we have to update the, and like we've

Zoe: said a couple things about it Yeah. But we haven't told the full story and like how it's actually affected you Yeah. Um, and how you're feeling now about it. Yeah. Because it has been what, like two months since?

Heather: I think so ish. Yeah. Yeah.

Zoe: Yeah. It's been a couple months and I feel like it was a whirlwind for all of us involved. For both of us. Yeah. And for you

Heather: and him.

Zoe: Yeah.

Heather: I think, um, like now obviously everyone have I updated everyone that I'm currently getting the life fucked out of me in the best way. [00:56:00] Yeah. Um, but yeah, I, that was, was, that was my like first relationship.

Out of sobriety. That

Zoe: was your first real relationship outta sobriety. Yeah, yeah,

Heather: yeah. The guy, like I had a rehab boyfriend that was trauma bond also text me back. Yeah. What the fuck? We need to hear from him. Yeah. I will say that rehab friends, there's like a part of me that's like, don't check on him, it's fine.

But at the same time I'm like, you're not a regular person. Yeah. You're a junkie. Mm-hmm. And I'm your friend and I give a fuck. So I'm just gonna bother you because I'd rather bother you than have you die. Yeah. Okay. So bother your drunk friends. I. That was my first relationship in a real way. That I just like met someone on Hinge and I liked how much he romanticized the idea of me.

Yeah. Like he really liked the idea of me. And what I came to realize was that I'm not that. Yeah. And I don't wanna be, it was like somebody who has more time. Yeah. Somebody who honestly, like I feel like [00:57:00] you want someone who's a little more needy. Mm-hmm.

Zoe: I, this man liked like, he wanted you to be toxic a little bit.

I think he wanted you to want him all the time. Yeah. Which isn't a healthy relationship, by the way.

Heather: No. And I said this at the beginning, you know, my mom when we were growing up always said, and this is right, she's like, make sure the man always likes you a little more than you like him. Yeah. In like a binary sense.

And I'm like, alright. How is that ever gonna happen? Because I'm so boy crazy right. With this, the, the, the, the summer guy that I was dating, he liked me so much. Yeah. So much more than I liked him and I felt like I could never catch up. Mm-hmm. And I did like him, but the more he liked me and felt less for me, I felt like he was getting insecure and then it would make him latch.

Yeah. And then I was like, whoa, I hate this. Yeah. I feel trapped. I feel like I, like I was talking to Arianne about this last night. She's like, you looked strung out. Mm-hmm. The whole time you were dating him 'cause [00:58:00] you were exhausted and crying.

Zoe: Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, you were thinking of way too much saying and like, having a boyfriend should be so easy.

Yeah. And yeah. You are stressed about making enough time for him. Yeah. Which like, yeah. He wanted to hang out with you. All the time. Yeah. Which is just not ideal. I can't, I mean, it just start a

Heather: relationship. The only person I wanna spend multiple days with is you. That's so nice. Well, that's just true. But I think like you did not say it back.

Okay.

Zoe: I didn't. Yeah, no, no. I'll go fuck myself. It's fine. I love you so much. I can spend all day with you. You like, I love you so much, but

Heather: except one day a week is good, babe.

Zoe: We might just need a few hours by ourselves and then we can come back together. Oh, that's fine. Like I can hang out with you all day as long as I have a buffer.

Heather: You gotta get us to take a smoke break.

Zoe: Yeah, I'll take a smoke. I'll take multiple sports smoke breaks. But I, okay. I wanna talk about how he used the words, I love you in a fight. Okay. Because I think that was like the first red flag.

Heather: Yeah. Yeah, it happened twice actually. There was [00:59:00] a situation where he got upset that like, uh, it was like I was prioritizing Zoe you over like, is this all my fault?

No. But I'm like, uh, what do you mean you want me to not have a friend? Like, what the fuck? And we were like, near him doing whatever. Yeah. And I was like, oh, come to this thing after we're going to eat. Right. We were just had a spa day.

Zoe: Yeah. And we a great kind of taste. I I asked you, I said, what's your man saying?

Like, does he wanna join us for food? Yeah. And you're like, yeah, let's text him. Yeah.

Heather: I texted him, I said something like, come for food. It, it has to be kind of an early night. Like, so I can't hang out too long. And that, because it was the podcast night, we were doing the podcast in the morning. Yeah. It was Thursday night.

Yeah. I can't do that. He got upset that I was like, just let's hang out for a short time. He felt like I was putting a boundary on him and like, oh, I can only hang out with her for like an hour. Which boundaries are good. Yeah. So then he. Got all pissy. He showed up at the place, which is super movie. I don't want it.[01:00:00]

Yeah. Don't do grand gestures. It's fucking annoying. Yeah. Shows up. I literally was like, are you fucking kidding? Mm-hmm. Kind of fighting about it, kind of trying to make everything okay. And he goes like, well, I love you, and now I'm trapped.

Zoe: Yeah. My two friends. You and, and also like, that's so, that holds so much weight for you because Yeah.

You always wanted guys to say, I love you, to you you literally told Yes, of course I wanna be loved. Yeah. You told them to say that when they were having sex with you, when you were drinking. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I did. Yeah. Who did you tell that to recently? It's jj. Jj and he was like, um, okay. Yeah, it was fucked up.

It's fine. Um, but like that. You obviously heard, you probably heard that and was like, oh my God, like fi like, yes. Thank you. It

Heather: was really confusing in my head. Yeah. Because I knew what he was doing. Mm-hmm. It felt manipulative. Yeah. It's not the first, but also

Zoe: you

Heather: loved him here saying that to you obviously.

Well, I [01:01:00] also loved him. Yeah. So I was like, fuck, okay, now I'm trying to be empathetic. Why you're being so emotional and you're so upset by this thing. Mm-hmm. Because you love me and you feel like I'm not giving it back to you. But now looking back, I'm like, fuck off. Yeah. Don't weaponize those words to me.

Like I get what you were doing. I don't think he's a bad person. I think he's actually a really great person. Mm-hmm. We just really don't fit. Yeah. And I think at the end of the day, it's just like. I was really trying to make it work. Mm-hmm. And changing everything about myself, and I was fucking miserable.

Yeah. And I was so tired. And I'm like, what the fuck? So I'm glad it happened. I learned a lot. I feel like we learned a lot Yeah. About our friendship, which was nice. Yeah.

Zoe: So when that park thing happened mm-hmm. Like they were talking on the side, they came back, I was with my other friend, and then he joined us for dinner.

Heather: Mm-hmm.

Zoe: And I said straight to his face. I was like, that was fucking weird. Don't do it again. Yeah. And I think. Being sober. [01:02:00] I have like, yeah, like I can give you like one chance like Yeah, you can fuck up. Like I get it. Mm-hmm. But like, that was weird. Don't interrupt our, like, we invited you to dinner. Yeah.

Be happy. Yeah. What I know was that I know. Screw around and then screw around. I like that. That was such a fucking screw around. Oh, such a screw around. And then something else happened and I feel like that was like my final straw that

Heather: night. Something happened. He made, he came home with me. Yeah. And like yeah.

Made me talk about our relationship until like midnight. No. You know what? The second, the second thing

Zoe: that happened that I was really pissed about was your guys' date. You guys finally had a dinner date and he made you cry on the street and you didn't eat any fucking food. Yeah. And that was my final straw.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Heather: yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, there was a moment I was sitting at dinner mm-hmm. Something happened and it was super unnecessary and I wasn't even that sad. I was exhausted. Yeah. I was fucking exhausted [01:03:00] from like, doing everything I possibly could. Mind you, I've been in therapy forever, so trying to change myself to fit into a box, like I logically know that's not gonna work.

Mm-hmm. But something had happened and I, I had an out of body experience where I'm looking at myself. At 31 years old crying at a pasta dinner that I was really excited about. Yeah. And now I'm crying in a restaurant. Are you fucking crazy? Yeah. And I kind of promised myself in that moment, I was like, this has happened before.

I'm never gonna let this happen again. Yeah. I'm not crying at dinner. Yeah. There's no man in the world that has access to me to make me cry at fucking dinner. Literally. I'm done with that shit. I stayed too long. I had to figure it out, but I'm glad I did. Yeah, you were very helpful. At first. It was a little difficult with us.

I was trying to navigate like, well, I think it, I just didn't want you to be mad at me, but I was trapped because I, I loved him. Yeah. So I was confused. I'm like, I know I have to get out of this. I don't know when or how. And if I tell you, I don't want you to [01:04:00] be mad that it's taking me so long to fucking get off the pot.

But I think.

Zoe: Was also like, he was a huge manipulator. Yeah. He was hard to see it. When you're in it, it's hard to see it. When you're in it, you're starting to see it more. That's like on, you're on the other side. Um, it's also hard when you do have feelings for the guy. Yeah.

Heather: Well that's what pissed me off too.

There was like something that had happened, like a big, something, like a lie that I found out and I was like, I'm finding out this truth. Mm-hmm. After I already love you.

Zoe: Yeah.

Heather: Fuck

Zoe: you man. Yeah. He told a really big lie. Yeah. He kept it and made him, made her love him. Yeah. Without telling her a main part of his fucking

Heather: life.

Yeah. Which is just insane. Well, yeah. And with this person that's fucking the life out of me now. I'm like, tell me your secrets. Yeah. What are you hiding? What do you know?

Zoe: Um, but I think it like helped that whole situation. I learned a lot from it too because I learned to like be patient with you. Yeah. I knew that I couldn't, like [01:05:00] at first I wanted to be mad at you.

Heather: know, I know. Like that was my

Zoe: first reaction. I was, I feel it was like, I wanna be fucking mad at her right now, but I cannot be mad at her. Yeah. Like I don't, if I'm mad at her, she's gonna just go closer to him and then push me away and that would be like the last thing I would want. I

Heather: was really prepared to not do that.

Yeah. I was like, I had these conversations with my therapist Yeah. Where I was like, I'm not gonna not be friends with Zoe. Yeah. So I'm gonna let her be mad at me if she needs to. Yeah. 'cause she's going through this as much as I am. Yeah. Like you're date, you're dating, you're best friends with the person going through it.

Yeah. So it's like you're objectively seeing it. It is more annoying. Yeah. And I'm like, Zoe's gonna be really annoyed with me. Yeah. But that's okay. 'cause this will end and then we'll be okay. Yeah. But I was like. But that's also another thing. Yeah. I'm like, I am never

Zoe: Yeah.

Heather: Canceling plans with you or like adjusting my life where now I'm not hanging out with my friends.

Mm-hmm. Because of a guy. That's crazy. Yeah. And you didn't do that? No, I really didn't. You never did? No. You never

Zoe: did that? No, but I think it was just like, at first Yeah. I wanted to be mad at you. And then I like, after like a week, I think I [01:06:00] came to terms like, okay, she's gonna do this and she's gonna figure it out on her own.

Yeah. And like she needs to learn from this. Yeah. Like, this is gonna be so mu like this is gonna be great for her to learn and great for her growth. And like she needs to figure this out on her own. I

Heather: think in that, you said something to me last week too, and I think you probably were realizing it during Yeah.

That like, I'm a year less sober than you. Right. So like, you were sober and then dating and going through it and you only we became

Zoe: close.

Heather: Yeah.

Zoe: When I started dating dad. Yeah.

Heather: Yeah.

Zoe: So I didn't watch you date. Yeah. I didn't You didn't Never watch me date. No.

Heather: Yeah. But then it's also like. I see how youth see that.

We're at the same point, even though we're not. Yeah, I haven't done anything, like, I haven't gone through any bullshit with men. Mm-hmm. With sobriety yet, so I'm like, yeah, you do have to let me do it. Yeah. It sucks, but. I think we both learned a lot from that. And I do feel closer to you. I feel me too. A lot better me.

And now I do feel like I know I can because there was a point where I did come to you and [01:07:00] I was like, I know that you don't like this. I know that I don't wanna be in this. Yeah. But right now I don't wanna get out of it. Yeah. And then I think that was good. I think that was

Zoe: good too. I think like we just have to keep communicating what we're feeling to each other.

Yeah. Even if it's gonna hurt the other person for a second. For a second. Yeah. It's better to say it. Yeah. Than for us to feel it and like not be like, yeah. Oh, I think

Heather: she's feeling like that, but I don't know. You know? Well, 'cause then we're gonna snap at each other. Exactly. And we're not snapping at each other.

We can't do that. That's crazy. No, but if we do snap at each other, we're gonna have to have a

Zoe: conversation on the pod about it. We'll, honestly, I think if we had a, like if we're fighting out there, we need to bring it in here and then I think we'll be able to solve it.

Heather: Yeah.

Zoe: Um, but yeah, I think like I learned a lot of like patience from that and like, I.

I, my big thing is control, right? I love to control things and I quit. And you want your

Heather: friends to be good, like you want your friends

Zoe: to be happy. Well, like the one thing that I hated about this guy was that he. Never ate food. Yeah. Heather found the one man in all of [01:08:00] Toronto that doesn't eat food. Yeah, I did.

Heather: It's really hard to be Yeah. An ex anorexic and be re-triggered like that. Yeah. And I was like, I'm good. I'm fine. I can eat. The problem is we never ate.

Zoe: Yeah. And

Heather: I was hungry.

Zoe: Yeah.

Heather: Now I'm eating. Yeah. I went to a El Salvadorian restaurant yesterday for breakfast and I got refried beans and eggs. Ooh, yum.

I know. It was very Guatemala.

Zoe: Yeah. So I think like this new guy is encouraging you to eat. And I even saw, he said something cute to you last week, he was like, eat all your eggs and I'll give you a treat. And I was like, that's hot. And that's exactly what Heather needs. Like Yeah. I need em all. It's true.

Heather: Yeah. No, and I like the two of you. The two of you are great because you both will eat things off my plate. And you both initiate going to get food. Yeah. I just can't do what I forget. Yeah. So it is good. Yeah. I feel taken care of in that way, which is I. Actually what I need. Yeah. You, you know,

Zoe: you, you're like, oh, it's fine.

Like I can take care of him to get, like, we can take care of each other. Mm-hmm.

Heather: No, no. I always say I'm like handling everything. I'm handling it, I'm handling it. [01:09:00] I handle nothing and things that I can't handle, I really can't handle. Yeah. And I do need help. Yeah. I just don't know. It's good to ask for help, babe.

Yeah. It's just hard for me to do it. Yeah. So then you're there and you're like, hi. I say his name. Hi. I'm here. Yeah. Hi. Can you tell her to eat? Are you guys gonna go eat? Fantastic? Yeah, exactly. It's nice. I feel safe. Yeah. And then, I don't know, I'm sure I'll encourage you to do something eventually at some point.

I'm not sure what that is yet, but I'll be a good friend.

Zoe: I mean, you've encouraged me to do the podcast. Oh yeah. You're right. Yeah, you're, you're right. You're right. I've told you to. Yeah. I've encouraged you to just share all your bullshit to the world and I'm loving it.

Heather: Oh, it's the best thing ever.

Zoe: Yeah.

Ugh. Okay. Well, I love you. We have a

Heather: cool meeting in like five minutes. Yeah. We have a really cool meeting, guys. And I, yeah. I really hope that this. Brings this person onto the pod because I think we need to be so cool. We're gonna be cool. We're gonna be so cool. And I think that this person is gonna fall in love with us, and I think that it's gonna be a great little family that we're gonna create.

Yay. Yay. Okay, we gotta go get on the horn with Ariane, okay? Okay. I'm proud of you. I'm [01:10:00] proud of you. I love you. Thank you for I love you so much. Thank you. Thank you for making me talk about that breakup. That was good. I needed to release that. And they didn't know. And now you guys know. Now you guys know.

So proud of you. Moving forward. Proud of you. Yes. Sorry. Thank you. Proud of you. Love you. Sorry. Should we do that? Proud of you again? Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Proud of

Zoe: you. I'm proud of you, baby. Proud of you. Proud of you guys. Bye bye.

Heather: Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Undrunk podcast and or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com.

#GirlUndrunk #SobrietyJourney #AddictionRecovery #HealingIsNotLinear #SoberVoices #RecoveryPodcast #SoberCurious #EmotionalHealing #SpeakYourTruth #LifeWithoutAlcohol #WomenInRecovery #MentalHealthMatters #AlcoholFreeLife #SelfTrust #HealingOutLoud

Heather Chappell

#36: Kinda Cool, Sorta Trashy

Kinda Cool, Sorta Trashy Transcript

#37: That Went Downhill Real Quick (feat. Toni Shelton / Collective Arts)

#35: A Little Bit of A Lobotomy (feat. Leah Sherry)

Girl, Undrunk