#16: It Was Instant Part 1 (Zoe’s Story)
Zoe shares Part 1 of her story, tracing how drinking became her way to fit in, feel free, and survive high school. From sneaking sips and throwing wild parties to getting arrested and smoking daily, she looks back on how alcohol became her escape—and how her early choices shaped what came next.
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It Was Instant: Part 1 Transcript
Heather: [00:00:00] This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening.
Summer's here baby. And speaking of which, we have our speaking of which we have
Zoe: a new little mocktail, a new little
Heather: mocktail. Curious elixir. This is so cute. Curious Elixirs sent us some little drinks to try. They are. Look how cute this little bottle is. I feel like mine's cuter 'cause it's pink. That's true.
I mean
Zoe: the brown is very
Heather: chic. Ow. Oh, I feel like this goes with my, she's herself. I feel this goes with my little outfit. It does go with
Zoe: your outfit.
Heather: These are so cute. So mine is Sicilian blood orange spritz. Mine's
Zoe: Roy Rose and fizzy lifting lime.
Heather: I mean, and this is great 'cause, so [00:01:00] this is good for Zoe because this is not like fake alcohol.
Yeah, not, it's not like
Zoe: imitating a cocktail. It's not like a virgin mojito. It's his own, yeah. Or own thing. Like a
Heather: DEA gin. This is just
Zoe: basically like,
Heather: what did you call it, like
Zoe: fancy juice? It sounded, it kind tasted like kombucha when we tried it last week. Yeah.
Heather: Carbonated filtered water, blood, orange, white, grape and lemon juice concentrates.
It's all great stuff. Yeah. Okay, so, so what they recommend to like you tip over twice? Tip it over twice. Okay. And then I could have taken this off mine. I haven't tried this one yet. And so you can put it over ice or you can just drink it. But we have these cutie little, how cute.
Zoe: Oh, mine smells good.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: How many drinks can we have going? Curious
Heather: Alexas. Let's try then.
Zoe: Cheers babe.
Heather: Ooh, cheers.
Mm oh, okay. Try. I want be outside. I know. I wanna be outside too.[00:02:00]
Zoe: Ooh. Ooh. That one's like even has like a more like Ooh to it.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Which I like because it reminds me of like taking a shot, you know?
Heather: Yeah. I feel like this one, the,
Zoe: I like grapefruit juice. I like very,
Heather: like I kind of want this one, one tart things when you like get to the cottage. Mm. And you're like, this is the first one I'm gonna drink.
And then that one I wanna drink in the sun, right? Yeah. Nice. Okay. Okay. Love it. So curious Elixirs use code un drunk for $10 off order. Over $50. Is it $10 or 10%? It's 10. $10. Okay. Yeah. Hi everyone. Quick note while recording. Zoe and I messed up the Curious Elixirs code. We said it was Undr, but the actual code is un drunk.
10 for $10 off orders of $50 or more. Yay. And have your little summer drinks. Summer drinks, summer drinks, summer mock. So Summer Mosies. I really do like this. Okay. I really do like it too. Now it tastes like healthy but tasty. It does. I also like something that's like, you can't chug it. Like you have to [00:03:00] just like sip it.
Yeah. 'cause it's spicy. A little, not spicy, but like Herby
Zoe: Herby. So it's
Heather: like, it's their whole, it's a whole experience.
Zoe: Yeah. It's a whole mouth feel. It's, you know, the mouth feel is amazing. I know all about the mouth. Feel. Same
Heather: Zoe. What? Zoe is up, are we doing Zoe? Zoe? Esmaralda. Kahan. How are Zoe? Francis Kahan.
Oh, it's so cute. Zoe Francis. I like Esmeralda though. My grandpa's name was Francis. Do you think that you're reincarnated as my grandpa and you've come here to talk about sex? Probably not. Oh, no. One time my grandpa saw. Okay. There was a woman when we were growing up in the nineties and she was like a a, a white-haired lady.
Someone's gonna know her name. She's Canadian. There's also an American version of her, but she would be on TV talking about sex. Okay. In the early nineties. So that was Canadian. You said there was a Canadian one and there was an American one. Okay. Whichever one. And then my mom had the news on. Mm-hmm. And she switched it and there was a, a lady who kind of looked like her.
Maybe she was just like a whiter, A whiter, a white older woman. Mm-hmm. And my grandpa walked in the room and was like, [00:04:00] Ugh, I can't with her. And like it wasn't even her. Yeah. It was just like another woman who like kind of looked like her and he is like, oh, that woman on tv, I can't disgusting. Oh my God.
He was so, and I was like, what we were talking about And my mom was like, dad, that is a woman who looks like her. That's not even her. Yeah. Crazy. And there's that woman, I did watch her show because I was always watching on like channel 4, 7, 8, 5. It was like the sex channel.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But when you get home from school at 3:00 PM there's nothing really sexual.
It's just like other stuff. And so she would be on, and she'd be telling you about dildos and people would like call in. I do not
Zoe: know who this woman is at all.
Heather: We gotta do a screening party. Maybe we should get her on the pod. I dunno if she's still alive.
Zoe: I don't, don't know. I mean, hopefully she's still having good sex.
If she is,
Heather: I hope to be. I hope to be. I hope to eventually have good, I hope to have good sex
Zoe: and then continue having
Heather: good sex for
Zoe: until I die.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. Or we might not, I'm gonna get quiet. We might not die. Yeah. I feel like we're kind of living in a world where we are gonna be the ones to not die. Like there's gonna be some sort of weird like cryo chamber and they're gonna put us [00:05:00] all in there and they're gonna send us to Pluto and then we're all gonna live there.
I just have a weird feeling about it.
Zoe: I don't know. I wanna die. I don't wanna be here forever. That seems like so intense. No, my time will be done at like, what did you say? 119?
Heather: 120, 120. Make a round number. Okay. You know who loves to live forever. Vampires. And then they're constantly dating like girls in high school and I'm like.
That seems problematic. Guys, you're a thousand. How is your mental health?
Zoe: You're all over the place. And whenever you start saying a story, I'm like, where the fuck is she gonna take this one? I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.
Heather: I'm sorry everybody.
Zoe: I think I, I feel like I wrapped it up though. You did, but just like
Heather: every new story, I'm like, okay, where are we gonna go?
I did not take my antidepressants this morning. Okay. That's what's going on. My mental health is fine. How is yours? It's fine. It's fine. We hate that word. Fine. We do hate that word. My mental health is, I mean, it's up and down. I have a lot going on. Yeah. I'm working on myself. I'm, I'm itm very [00:06:00] stressed, but I am honestly good.
It's good.
Zoe: Yeah. I'm,
Heather: I always feel better when you're in, in this room. Yeah. I'm like always like, I don't even know what was going on. I feel good.
Zoe: I feel a little bit stressed overall still with like, everything, um, like. Personal. Yeah. Shit that
Heather: hasn't resolved.
Zoe: No, nothing has resolved. And like a new thing happened in my life as well.
Yeah. That I'm just like dealing with. Yeah. I was like, what? And I'm just trying to figure out how I'm going to go about it as well. Um. Mm-hmm. So a lot, so just new obstacles, I guess.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: But I had fun last night. I went to the club.
Heather: She to the club last night. Guys, you went to the club and I saw on your Instagram story there was like bottle service with those like sparklers in them.
And I was like, oh my god, are we in Miami? What is this? Yeah. Yep. What was it? Bar 44?
Zoe: Yeah. Well we were supposed to go to apartment [00:07:00] 200 and then the birthday girl arrived late and then the booth was gonna be over a thousand dollars and they originally quoted her $600. Oh liar. If you got there before 11.
So, and then she got there at like 1130 girl and she was like, well I'm not gonna pay a thousand dollars. So we're all standing around being like, okay, well what are we gonna do? And then another girl called Club 44 and I think they ended up paying $600 for two bottles. Um Okay. Which worked out. It worked out.
That's fine. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah, I would need to have a booth if I'm gonna go to the club. Well that's why I,
Zoe: that's why I said yes to going. Yeah. Because I got told that there was a booth, so I was like, yeah, of course. I'll go. I
Heather: love to sit. Yeah. I love to sit down. If I was drinking, I would be like, oh, fuck it, I'll pay for it.
Yeah, yeah. Pay my credit card. And I'd like, Madam, this is declined.
Zoe: Well, it was nice that like I went and I didn't have to pay for anything. Like when the bottle service girls came over, I was just like, can you guys bring over a Red Bull please, stat. And then they did. And I was like, thank you
Heather: stat. [00:08:00] That's good.
Zoe: I did feel like a little bit because it's so chaotic getting into those places. Yeah. Everyone is like crowding around. Everyone wants to get in. So that was chaotic energy for me. And I did feel a little bit stressed, but I think everybody does, even if you're drinking or not. Yeah. And then when we got to the booth and I got the Red Bull in my hand, I could like relax and have fun.
Just
Heather: breathe. Yeah.
Zoe: Um, it does
Heather: help having something in your hand, you're like, now I'm part of it. Really helps.
Zoe: Yeah. Idle hands. Yeah.
Heather: Keep doing, you gotta put something in your hands.
Zoe: But every one of. My friend's, friends I was with could like shake ass. Mm-hmm. So they were shaking ass and I was like, God, I don't have any ass for this.
My ass be's
Heather: tiny
Zoe: compared to you guys.
Heather: That's tiny. However. What if you got up higher on something, maybe a table, and then you're farther away so it looks more powerful.
Zoe: Right.
Heather: It could also look
Zoe: smaller. Also, this club, they didn't allow you to go out and back in, so I couldn't leave to have a cigarette.
Heather: That's a hostage situation. [00:09:00] Yeah. So I texted
Zoe: my boyfriend that and he was like, that sounds like a prison.
Heather: You can't go out and come back in.
Zoe: No. You know too much. It's like a Diddy party. I know. Well, and then I'm like so jealous of the people who are vaping in those situations. 'cause I'm like, Ugh, I wish I just vaped.
And then everyone was everything in the club. Yeah. And then everyone was like smoking joints in the club. And I was like, okay. Is crazy. Is that if
Heather: I, that's the second time this has happened. Remember we went to the bar to watch the game? Yeah. And someone was rolling a joint, like down the Yeah. I was like, well they were
Zoe: smoking joints inside.
Yeah. So I was like,
Heather: is
Zoe: it crazy if I light a cigarette? And they were like, yeah, it is crazy. It's a different smell. And I'm like, Ugh.
Heather: It's different. It's a different smell. It's smoke way
Zoe: better smoke drugs in the club, but I can't smoke a cigarette. It's sad.
Heather: Yeah. I honestly think cigarette, well, I don't really know, but cigarettes are, they can't be as bad as for you as like fucking binge drinking.
Yeah. And like, I don't know, also smoking weed. It's like, I don't know. Inside it's a lot. It's still like smokey.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: You know,
Zoe: I probably got secondhand high last night. [00:10:00] Doesn't count.
Heather: Doesn't count. I just go hang out. I hang outside of, um, smoke shops and I try to get the feelings of it all.
Zoe: Yeah. I just feel a little bit anxious and a lot of the things happening in my life are not in my control and that stresses me out as an addict.
So, yeah. I'm probably, I'm gonna give myself, last week we were a four. Yeah. I'm gonna give myself like a five.
Heather: Okay. I think I'm like a, today, in this moment I'm like a seven, but if I reflect on the week Yeah. I'm a 4, 4,
Zoe: 5. Yeah. But I'm, I'm feeling we're slightly gut.
Heather: I'm feeling positive, like I'm feeling, I'm feeling positive.
Optimistic about the future. However, I do wanna say this. I was thinking about this in the shower where I have all my thoughts. I will say that, speaking of what you just said, feeling stressed and not affecting your sobriety, the state of the world, this is not a political podcast. The state of the world is so scary right now.
It has been for the past few [00:11:00] years, honestly, since fucking 2016. But recently, it's just getting, it's, it feels like it's getting worse and worse. And I think sometimes as addicts, we can kind of go different ways with it. We can kind of be like, well, fuck it then. If you're gonna just blow up this country, then why am I fucking sober?
Like there's no, it's so big. This is so small. Who
Zoe: gives a fuck? I don't know. I, you are so much more into the elements than I am. I am. Like, I don't, I can't. I can't be bothered to like know. Right. And that's good. You know I
Heather: got my nose in the news. Yeah, you do. I've got my nose in the news. I am very affected by things.
Yeah. And so for other people that are very affected by things like me, I think I, I think when everything is so chaotic sometimes it feels like I'm insignificant. Literally who cares? This is bullshit also, it's painful to watch. It's painful to see. It's really fucking scary. And don't look, that's not why.
Well, that is not a great like solution. [00:12:00] 'cause like you kind, some people really have to know what's going on. They wanna know, it makes them feel better. But in terms of sobriety, if you're feeling like that, like it's just so overwhelming. It's so stressful. Yeah. It
Zoe: seems like it's overwhelming for you and it's stressful for you to watch all of this.
Yeah. And keeping your nose in it then like, take a step back. There's really not anything that you can do to control who, who Trump's gonna bomb or not, you know? Mm-hmm. Like you knowing that isn't gonna solve anything.
Heather: But what I am saying as like, yeah, this is also stressful and if you are like me Yeah.
I am a person who, this is probably not true, but for me, I feel safer when I know everything I know. Got it. Like when there's stuff going on in my family and they don't talk about it, I'm like, Hey, what's happening? Yeah. Like I can't do that. It scares the fucking shit out of me when people are just like, everything is fine.
Yeah. So I have to, but that makes sense. If you are feeling really stressed out, if you're feeling really like doom, like this feels like doom Sobriety is your consistency. Yeah. Like if you just stay sober, don't pick up like you just are like everything is going [00:13:00] everywhere all the time. But I know that I'm so, and like that's what you can kind of like lean into.
Yeah. I think that's helpful to be like, I can control this one thing. Yeah. Like I know that I'm sober and nothing is gonna affect
Zoe: it.
Heather: I'm done.
Zoe: Well, and also like the world has always been shit. You know? Like there's, every year there's something else that's like shit.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: It's not like the world was perfect two years ago.
Like it's always been shit since I was born.
Heather: Yeah. But this is the, this is the first time it's really been shit. Yeah. Since I got sober. Yeah. So like if, you know, if you're like in this situation where like you're just getting sober now and you're like, why would I be sober? This is insane. Yeah. There is a reason and it's just for you to feel your calm, feel yourself in this world.
It's
Zoe: gonna be okay.
Heather: Yeah. Touch some grass, touch some grass, drink a
Zoe: water, drink a curious elixir. $10 left, $10 off your order for $2 or more.
Heather: Um, yeah, but that's just what I wanted to say because I've been feeling sad for all of my little addicts running [00:14:00] around just being like, trying to, I, and I think as addicts too, we feel really deeply and it's, it's really hard to see what's going on and, but we all feel like that.
And it's, yeah. You know, it's not good, but it is something and we just gotta stay sober.
Zoe: I think just like focusing on yourself and mm-hmm. You really can control everything that's happening to you. You can only control what you're gonna do about it. Yeah. And how you're gonna react to the world around you.
Heather: That's it. That's it. You can only, you can only control how you react to things. Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And that's all. And that's it. And that's all. See you next week. Bye. Alright. Just kidding. We
Zoe: have a podcast to do. We have a
Heather: podcast to do. How you doing Zoe? I'm feeling good. You ready to go?
Zoe: Let's do
Heather: it.
Zoe: Okay. Let's tell my story.
Heather: So last week we talked about my story. Yeah. And it's funny 'cause like watching it back and looking back, I'm like, wow, my drinking doesn't start until like. 56 minutes in and it's like, it's so funny. 'cause I'm like, oh my God, this is a sobriety podcast. Yeah. Why am I not talking? But then I'm like, wait, wait, wait for [00:15:00] me personally.
Yeah. All of that stuff Yeah. Led to, led to it. Yeah. And I think that our stories are a bit different. Yeah. But I just, all of your stories are valid. Like, I just feel like story I'm judging myself. Yeah.
Zoe: In like, in the rooms, in sobriety, every one story is so different. Yeah. But like, I relate to your story.
Mm. You relate to my story. Yeah. Um, even though it's like it's very far apart and different, we still know how each other we're feeling in those moments. Yeah. Because we felt that way too.
Heather: Yeah. And like whether it's like deep, deep trauma Yeah. Or like, or like visual trauma or it's just like in your heart.
Yeah. It, it affects everyone so differently. And so I think it's important to be like. It kind of doesn't matter what's happened to you, you got here. Yeah. And like, that's valid and that's important.
Zoe: But yeah, I have told my story before in a meeting and that was like very scary. And I'm definitely gonna tell it better now because I'm way more comfortable with you and not [00:16:00] saying it in front of like, hun a hundred people.
Yeah. Some that I know, some I don't. So I am, uh, excited. I wonder how much you'll know about
Heather: I know my story. I was thinking about it this morning too. I'm like, where did this all start? Like Yeah, I know, I know that you've, you went crazy. Go nuts. Yeah. In co in college. I know you were a little crazy going nuts in high school.
Yeah. But I'm like, what? How did it get you? Why did it get you?
Zoe: I think it was pretty instant for me. Yeah. Like this first time I drank, I got blackout and I chased that blackout ever since. Like, it was a very immediate thing. Like most normal people would. Get blackout and like be really scared about that, you know, and say, I don't wanna ever do that again.
Especially
Heather: their first time,
Zoe: especially their first time. And not for me. I was like, oh my God, that was amazing. I have no idea what happened last night. That's so fun. I'm so exciting.
Heather: And probably not [00:17:00] sick.
Zoe: Yeah. Right.
Heather: Not yet. Not at that age. Not,
Zoe: of course not. No. But like growing up I felt just like a little bit different from every one in my family.
My parents were always like, you're the creative one. Mm-hmm. You're like, uncle, my uncle, well I'm not gonna say his name, you're like my uncle. Um, you're creative, you're different from the family. Mm-hmm. And I think when I was younger, I really didn't think that word different meant good. 'cause different wasn't normal.
Oh, okay. So I felt like, oh, I'm different. Oh, I'm not. I don't fit in then. Mm-hmm. Like you're telling me I don't fit in 'cause I'm a different creative person.
Heather: And what were they talking about when they were saying you were creative? What were you doing?
Zoe: I think just like my interest in photography, my figure skating like okay.
Dance, like very, I liked drawing, you know? Mm-hmm. Like I was just, yeah.
Heather: Leaning more. My parents
Zoe: are all mathematical people. They're financial advisors, so they're like, [00:18:00] oh, this isn't, I don't know this, this is my uncle was a DJ and great, um, he performs at Burning Man a lot, so he's like, he's one of those so cool.
They me, them calling me different and like, my uncle kind of made me feel not great, you know? I was like, okay, so I don't fit in with you guys then. Yeah. I'm something different. And my uncle lives in San Francisco, so how am I gonna like,
Heather: yeah.
Zoe: Be conjoined with him then, you know?
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: It felt like a little bit of an outsider, um, within my family in that way.
Mm-hmm. Um, my parents did split up for maybe like a year when I was four or five, and I do remember those moments and I think it must have affected me like more than I could know, to be honest. Like, if I did therapy, I'd probably like go into that. Yeah. And how it has affected me. Mm-hmm. Because I do remember early moments of just like fighting and [00:19:00] not great dynamics.
Heather: Okay. So at four years old, like you remember feeling that in the house? Yeah. Like you knew there was tense? Well, I remember
Zoe: when my parents got back together, we got a new house and my grandma asked me like how I was feeling. Like I remember this at four or five years old. And I told her like, I feel good because my parents aren't fighting anymore.
Like, mommy and daddy aren't fighting anymore.
Heather: That's so sad.
Zoe: I know. So. Even though I don't fully remember them actually fighting. I remember me saying that.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: So it must have been like, I mean, pretty traumatic for a young kid.
Heather: Kids hear everything. Kids know everything. Like when I would go to bed, they would think I was asleep.
I'm not sleeping. I'm like listening to you guys watching TV downstairs. I'm like listening to pots and pans. Like, we hear everything, you know, just go to bed.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what they would tell me a lot is to like, just go into my room. Just go into my room so they could fight. Um, and at my dad's, when my mom and dad were separated for that year, my dad had a condo or an apartment, and I remember that's where I [00:20:00] took my first sip.
Of beer because I thought it was apple juice. How old were you? Like four or five. Four or five. Okay. Um, and I remember like drinking it and I was like, daddy, that's not apple juice. He's like, no, that's my beer. And you were like, I love it. Oh, I love this though. So that's where I had my first drink. Yeah.
Heather: That's interesting.
Zoe: Yeah. Um, but then other than that, like great childhood, grew up in Oakville. Um, like my family was a good family. Mm-hmm. I spent a lot of time with my grandparents 'cause I'd go to their house after school, so I was very close with them.
Heather: When your parents split up and got back together mm-hmm.
Was there ever a conversation with you and your brother about like, this is what's happening and dad's coming back? I think like,
Zoe: no. I, they must have had a conversation with us. I don't remember that conversation.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And I don't think anyone in the family really talked about it until maybe I was like.
12 or 13. Mm-hmm. I got told that that even [00:21:00] happened and I was like, oh yeah, that did happen. Yeah. Like it definitely wasn't a thing that was talked about. Yeah. Even now, like we never talk about that boat. Like what's there to talk about, you know?
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: My parents do seem happy and they travel the world together, which is like, they just need a little
Heather: break.
Zoe: They just needed. Yeah. I don't know. I think, I don't know what was going on. I think maybe just like the kids of it all. Yeah.
Heather: Things change.
Zoe: Things change.
Heather: Having like two young kids, what, two under four is a lot. Yeah.
Zoe: You know? Yeah. Maybe my mom was stressed. Maybe something happened that I don't know. Who knows?
Heather: Who knows. Postpartum? Yeah. Maybe. Who knows? Yeah.
Zoe: But I'm glad that they figured it out. Mm-hmm. And they seem good now.
Heather: That's good.
Zoe: Um,
Heather: do they kiss?
Zoe: No. That's interesting. I've seen them kiss one time.
Heather: Yeah. That's interesting.
Zoe: Yeah. I don't love that.
Heather: I don't love that either. My parents would kiss
Zoe: like. My godmother and her husband kiss all the time and are very affectionate.
Which I like that. I like that too. You know, it, it's
Heather: cool.
Zoe: It shows that it's normal too. It's not like something [00:22:00] hidden from the world. Oh my God.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah. Um, so Oakville was great. I started figure skating. I loved my coach. Mm-hmm. I would say like my coach was someone I really loved and I was really close with my grandparents.
'cause I spent, I spent the most time with my coach and my grandparents. My parents would like pick me up from skating. We'd have dinner and then we'd go to bed. Um,
Heather: that's the best,
Zoe: you know?
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. And then you would sleep at their house?
Zoe: I would sleep at my parents' house, but Okay. After school, I'd go to my grandparents' house and then go to skating and then go home.
But whatever. True. Um. Yeah, I had a really good childhood. My best friend growing up lived right beside me. Mm-hmm. So we would build forts together and play sims all day long and watch friends all day long. I gotcha. She was really into Harry Potter. It was like, it was really [00:23:00] fun. Yeah. To grow up beside someone who's your best friend.
Just like always have her there. Um, and then in grade eight I was told that we're gonna move to Sarnia.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: At this point I was like, I don't, I do never wanna do drugs. Like when DARE came to the school and like grade seven, I was like, oh, okay. I will never do drugs. I'll never drink alcohol. I'm gonna be such a good girl.
Heather: It is. The craziest dare is so crazy. They're basically like, so if you do drugs, you will die. And it's like, there's so much that happens before you do drugs. There's peer pressure, there's like curiosity. There's kids, there's like a frontal lo connect. So exists. In the States? I think it does. Okay.
Interesting. I don't know what we have here. We have like a version of maybe they're still there, but Yeah. It's always, it's so growing up and learning big lessons at school, at assembly was so crazy. Yeah. It was like someone would come in with no legs. Yeah. Because they like
Zoe: were hit by a drunk driver.
Yeah.
Heather: Or someone would come in with like HIV. Yeah. And we were all like, I'm ter everyone, all of us in [00:24:00] class, were like, that's fear. We're gonna get aids. Yeah.
Zoe: Like it's very traumatizing. Very traumatizing. Anyways. So like at this point I was like loving figure skating. I was never gonna do drugs. I think I even wrote to my dad on a piece of paper when I was like in grade seven, like, I promise I'll never drink, I'll never do drugs.
You know, like I was very. Mm-hmm. Pure at this. Was there point
Heather: anybody around you at this time who was drinking?
Zoe: Well, I think my dad would drink a lot. Okay. When we'd go on family vacations, I could see him like, switch. Okay. And like get really drunk. And I didn't like how he acted and that's why I was like, I'm never gonna drink.
Was know
Heather: angry or stupid or how did he
Zoe: Both probably. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Um, and so when I got told that I'm moving to Sarnia in grade eight, like for high school, I was gonna start high school in Sarnia. I was like, absolutely not. I will not be going to Sarnia. I'll, how far is. It's like three hours. Yeah.
Two and a half hours. You're meeting all of [00:25:00] your friends. Yeah. Best friends. And I was supposed to start high school in Oakville with all my friends that I have known forever.
Heather: Yeah. Like how am I gonna do that? And were your friends good kids? Were they doing drugs or drinking or No. Second dick?
Zoe: No. No, not yet.
No, not yet. Yeah. Grade nine they would all start. But in grade eight we were all very pure still.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah.
Zoe: And um, I even told my parents like, no, I don't wanna move to Snia. I wanna stay with my grandparents. Yeah. Live with them for four years so I can keep skating in Oakville with my coach. And then I knew that I wanted to go to university in Toronto, so I was like, just keep me in Oakville guys, please.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Like, no, you're coming with us.
Heather: Ah.
Zoe: And I was like really upset. So I think at this point I already had like a resentment to them, obviously. Yeah. That they were taking me to Sarnia.
Heather: And I imagine too, when you're a kid, they're not asking you, they're telling you we're going, right? Yeah. And like that's, that's, you don't have [00:26:00] autonomy when you're a kid and you're like, I, nothing.
Nothing I do matters. Nothing. I say matters. You're going to take me at your own will. That's how it works. Yeah.
Zoe: It really didn't feel good at all. And I think like. Like Oakville is so close to Toronto. I would take the train to Toronto all the time to go shopping or go to concerts with my friends at grade seven and grade eight.
Like I was taking the train with my friends to the city. Woo. Yeah. Oh my. I was a cool kid. That's actually really cool. Do you feel
Heather: so cool?
Zoe: I felt so cool when I was doing that, for sure. Yeah.
Heather: I remember taking the bus down to the RTO center with my friend Sarah. Yeah. And it was like, it's so scary. But it's just like the city box and is a half an hour and then you get off and you're like, not
Zoe: downtown.
I know. Like I loved it and I always loved the city, so I always knew I was gonna be here. Mm-hmm. And then we go to Sarnia to look at houses and I'm like, we're in the middle of nowhere. Like this sucks. And. Yeah, it was just like really scary to start high school there. Um, [00:27:00] the skating program in Sarnia was not great, so we had to drive to Strathroy, which is like 45 minutes to get there.
Okay. And 45 minutes to come home. Like, I went there I think three or four times a week. Wow. Yeah. For a skating and like, that's a lot of on, on my mom driving me back and forth, you know?
Heather: Why did you guys move?
Zoe: My parents got a new job, like
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: Got an opportunity to work for themselves. Okay. As financial advisors for a company.
Oh, okay. Based out of Sarnia. Um, like now knowing everything, yeah. Was a great opportunity for them. Of course they were gonna take it like now I can see that. But yeah. Hindsight
Heather: 2020
Zoe: in that moment I was like, you guys
Heather: are awful ruining my life.
Zoe: Your jobs are fine in Oakville.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Relax.
Heather: Yeah. Like, just let me do this.
Yeah. And then you can do whatever you want in four years. Like jobs. Yeah. And I remember
Zoe: my dad was like, oh, I moved so much as a kid. I moved like 12 times. Um, and you, before I went to high school, like, [00:28:00] you can handle it. I was like, uh, I don't wanna, I don't wanna have to handle it. No. You know? Um, so I think when I started high school, I was just really set on being like the cool kid.
'cause I was excited to like go to high school to have that high school experience and be cool and have fun.
Heather: Okay. Tell me about that.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: You're going to high school in Sarnia. Yeah. It's day one. Mm-hmm. I'm assuming you either take a shower, take a shower the night before you take a shower, the morning of, what are you thinking?
I, I'm gonna be cool.
Zoe: I'm gonna, this is what I'm gonna do. Well, I was just like, okay. Me and my brother had a bet on like, who could bring their first friend home first. Oh.
Heather: Oh
Zoe: my God. Like, who? Oh God, guys I know. Like who was gonna have a friend that came over to the house first?
Heather: Mm-hmm. I
Zoe: think I did win, but the friend that I brought over ended up not being a good girl at all.
Heather: You're like, I'm just trying to win the be, I'm just [00:29:00] trying to win the bet, guys.
Zoe: Um, so I don't know. I went into my classes trying to talk to people, I guess. Oh, you did? Okay. And I think I was just telling everybody that I was new. So you weren't painfully shy? I wasn't, no. I was just like, I felt very nervous, but I could do it.
Like, I could put on a performance if I had to, I guess. Mm-hmm. And I did, and I made a few friends, but again, like I probably didn't feel like I fit in because all those people knew each other for so many years before then. Yeah. Like they all grew up together and now I'm the odd, one new one coming in.
Heather: Sarnia is also on the water. Right?
Zoe: Yeah. So
Heather: it's also, it's a different culture in Sarnia than it is. I feel like the late culture is so different than like the city, you know?
Zoe: Yeah. And I think that just like they all, everyone had the clique already because they all grew up together and I'm just coming in not knowing anything.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: [00:30:00] Or knowing anybody. And I don't know why I wanted to fit in so badly and why I had the mindset of fitting in equals going out and like partying. You know? I don't know why I. I think it's connected those two together. I
Heather: think it's safety,
Zoe: right? Yeah. It's like
Heather: you wanna be, you wanna be a part of what everyone's doing.
Yeah. You don't wanna be left out. You just, it's safer to be part of it and if you wanna party mm-hmm. It's like, I wanna do that. How do I get there? Mm-hmm. So you have to do all this work?
Zoe: Yeah. First. So I think like, I kind of flopped around friend groups a bit. Mm-hmm. Until like, I found the cool ones that like drank and smoked.
Heather: Okay. And how did you find yourself in that situation? In, in that friend group? Like, did you walk over or did you I think
Zoe: I was just like l like I had a group of friends and then I built it up. I went up the social chain a bit. Okay. You know, [00:31:00] with the friends that I was, I was like kind of using them to like level up.
Yeah. In a way. Yeah. Survival. Survival. And then I made it, and I remember we went to this girl's house and. They all had a little bit of booze in each, like water bottle that they stole from their parents. I don't think I stole any parent, any booze from my parents on that first time I drank. Yeah. But there was like enough to,
Heather: did you know that becoming friends with these people you were gonna drink or?
I don't
Zoe: think so. Okay. I don't think I had that click until that night when I was like, surrounded by all this booze and I was like, oh, okay. This is what we're doing. I guess this is what we do.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um, and then like we were all preying before we went out to a beach party. Okay.
Heather: So you drank. Yeah. And was this the first time since you were four?
Yeah. You drank?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Okay. Were you scared?
Zoe: No. Absolutely not. Happy
Heather: to be there.
Zoe: I was just happy to be there and I was like, Hey, this is what everyone's doing. Let's go.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And yeah, [00:32:00] I, I drank a lot because I wanted to be cool.
Heather: Yeah. I find the flip interesting, right? Yeah. The autonomy and the confidence of being in eighth grade and being like.
Dad, I don't. Or seventh grade. Yeah. I don't wanna drink, I'm never gonna do drugs. Yeah. To ninth grade being like no one even really had to pressure you. You just were like in the sis like in the situation. Yeah. And you were like, oh yeah, I'll do it too. We're, this is what we're doing, we're all going. I know it's such
Zoe: a flip so quickly, but it's, I think it was a little bit of a survival thing.
Heather: What are you gonna do? Not drink, get left online. Yeah. What am I gonna do?
Zoe: Be a loser and stay home? I don't know. Yeah. Um, but yeah, as soon as I did like drink a lot that night and I went to this beach party and I made it with my friend's, older brother
Heather: Hot.
Zoe: And I was like, oh my God. I would never do that if I was sober.
Like, that is so cool that I drank this thing and it let me do this cool thing and I feel so powerful and elite and popular. [00:33:00]
Heather: This is interesting to me. Yeah. So. Not remembering making out with a guy. Mm-hmm. That's cool to you. Yeah. That's that's not, that's not scary or embarrassing or people are gonna talk about it tomorrow or what.
I think people
Zoe: were like kind of like, happy that I did it. Okay. They're like, oh my God, I can't believe you did that.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: And I was like, oh my God, I did. So you're having
Heather: positive reinforcement from other people. Yeah. Interesting.
Zoe: Yeah. And I think that's just like ever sin ever, uh, that's what I was chasing.
I was chasing that feeling.
Heather: I mean, you fucking made a splash, didn't you? I really did. Yeah.
Zoe: And, and it worked. It, yeah. But like, that was probably the one and only time that it really did, like, feel good. I think quickly after that it went downhill. To be honest, I remember like maybe the fourth time I went out to a party, I was, I came home and my dad made some sort of comment at me, like being like, oh, this is gonna be a problem.
And God, he was right because you were
Heather: drunk.
Zoe: [00:34:00] Because like, I maybe was like s. Still drunk from that last night. Oh shit. And I was just like, being ridiculous or like being super hung over and he was like, oh God, this like, you're gonna be a problem.
Heather: You're like, bitch, you have no idea.
Zoe: That was only the beginning.
Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think from the moment I drank, like I drank to get drunk and I didn't drink like a normal person. So yeah. It was like more of an automatic thing for me. How did it taste to you? I didn't care. Okay. You know? Yeah. Like I would drink anything. Yeah. And I think, um, quick, like the same time alcohol was introduced, smoking cigarettes and smoking weed were introduced as well.
Um, I think in gr from grade 10 on, I either was drinking or smoking weed. Yeah. Every single day.
Heather: Whoa. Okay.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And so that looks like [00:35:00] you're gonna to your friend's house after school.
Zoe: That means like during lunch, I'm smoking weed with the stoner kids in 10th
Heather: grade.
Zoe: Yeah. And
Heather: did you get in trouble for that?
Zoe: I mean, I would get in trouble like from my parents or from the school?
Heather: The school.
Zoe: I don't really remember getting in trouble from the school that much. We
Heather: back then yeah. Was like heroin. Yeah. Like people were, I mean it was, it seemed to everyone as dangerous. Yeah. Like it was, yeah. I mean fear, I went to a
Zoe: public school, so maybe it was just like more like chill lax,
Heather: I don't know.
The public schools were so gangster. Yeah, so gangster. Yeah. Like we were, I mean our school was like full of bullshit. Yeah. But we were like at a Christian school. Yeah. So it like looked really gorgeous. Whereas like you drive past the public schools and like everyone is smoking outside and like,
Zoe: oh
Heather: man.
Zoe: Yeah. And like I think in grade 11. So I got into this friend group maybe, and granted 10 or 11, and there was like [00:36:00] four of us, and we all made a pact that we were all gonna throw a party. My friend, one of my friends went first, she had a rager at her house. It was great. And then I had to do it next, and then I had a party at my house.
Mm-hmm. And it was wild, I think at 9:00 PM It was after homecoming. So the football happens and then I Well, you guys did that. Yeah, because Sarnia is a border city, so like we did a lot of football, homecoming things. Oh, so
Heather: fun.
Zoe: And I remember I was so drunk at homecoming going along, going around to everybody saying, come to my party.
Come to my party. Come to my party. No. And then everyone came to my party. Someone's dad's gonna show up. I really think that this was in grade 10, by the way. Okay. I think this is grade 10. Okay. You had a year to kind of figure out Maybe grade 11. I had this homecoming party. And 9:00 PM 9:00 PM It was packed.
I [00:37:00] had a routine at this party. I would tell the most popular kid in high school was in charge of the music and I would scream at him to turn it down 'cause it was way too loud and I was trying to control this thing. So I'd be like. Fucking turn down the music. He would. And then I would go outside and bring everybody inside.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Because if they were outside, the noise traveled more and I already got a text that like, you could hear my party from three blocks away to the park. I was gonna say, if you're close to the water, it'll carry over the whole week. Yeah. So everyone could hear this thing. And my parents were out of town and I didn't want anybody to know, so I was like really anxious and trying to do this the right way.
I threw like blankets over expensive stuff. I rolled up an expensive rug, like a
Heather: responsible queen. I was
Zoe: trying my best. Yeah. But like it turned to shit. And then after I rallied everyone out from outside, then I would go to the garage where everyone had a, to like lined up for me. So, and then I would do a bong hit nice and have a shot.
What was that called? I think they [00:38:00] called it a wombat. You'd do a bong and then take a shot or maybe the other way around. Shot. Then bong.
Heather: God. You know the word we would, the word would go around cross faded. I'm so cross faded. Cross faded, and I was never cross faded when I would pretend I was. Yeah. I was so cross faded.
Fucking loser nerd.
Zoe: Yeah. But then I would do that again. I did that probably five times. Like yell at the music guy, bring everybody inside. Whenever I'd go to the garage, all the guys would have like a to ready for me. I would be like, thank you so much. I'm going as you should. And then by like maybe 10, 30, 11, my friend's parents were there and mm-hmm.
Were screaming at all these kids going, get the fuck
Heather: out. Get the fuck out. Is this friend one of your friends from your group of Yeah. Okay. That little pact that that little, okay.
Zoe: That pact like had changed like throughout high school I was friends with different packs of girls, but yeah, [00:39:00] that was like really scary that they were there.
And did they yell at you? They yelled at everybody and they said that the cops were coming and then everyone scurred away. Everyone drove home on my, my brother's bikes and things were stolen, shoes were left. I slept at that friend's house that night and I was just like terrified for my parents to get home that next morning.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: Um, before
Heather: you had this party, you were, were you thinking like, it'll be fine? Yeah. I'm gonna clean up. Yeah. Everything's gonna be totally kosher.
Zoe: Well, I don't think I expected that many people to show up. Like truly when I was walking through my house, it was like shoulder to shoulder and my house was big.
You're so young too. Yeah. It's like,
Heather: how am I gonna control this?
Zoe: Yeah, honest. And then my parents were so mad. I had to clean, I had to carpet stay in the house because someone puked. I had to find all my brother's bikes. I had to text all these guys being like, where did you put my bikes? Blah, [00:40:00] blah, blah.
Heather: Holy shit.
Zoe: It was a shit show. And I think that's probably the first time that I got like in trouble. And I think that's the first time my parents really knew what you were doing. What I was doing. Yeah. I think they had a clue maybe. But after that they knew for sure like how crazy I was. I
Heather: always wondered like the kids who would have these fucking rages at their houses or even like, not super crazy, but crazy enough.
Yeah. I'm like, your parents went out of town, but I know you as a kid. Yeah, I know you are nuts, not you. Yeah. Just people. And I'm like, why would your parents go outta town? Yeah. And leave you here. I know. Unsupervised and like maybe there's like really nothing you can do when your kid's like 17, 16. Yeah.
But it's like. If I, if I know my kid and I know that they're like a sneaky weasel mm-hmm. I'm probably like having grandma come sleepover. We didn't have any family in Sarnia. Well then I wouldn't have moved to Sarnia. Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah. I think [00:41:00] that was crazy.
Heather: And when they were yelling at you Yeah. Are you like terrified?
I
Zoe: was pretty terrified. Yeah. Yeah. I was pretty terrified, but I think that's when I was like, okay, it's fine. Like I'm only like grounded for two weeks. It's gonna be okay. Um, and people wrote that on the yearbook as like, the best memory of high school was my party. So like guys, it was kind of worth it.
Worth it? Yeah. Like. That's insane. You know, I
Heather: also think like yelling at kids is really crazy when they're literally, I mean, if they're doing something crazy sure. But like, if they're just like at a party
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And bumping and drinking, it's like, I know, but
Zoe: when this in your house, it's like, fuck
Heather: no. No, for sure.
Yeah. But then like for her parents to come in, like yell at everybody, I'm like, what's the yelling? I guess to get everybody out. To get everybody out. But
Zoe: what's the like you have to yell to control like fucking hundreds of drunk 16 year olds. Yeah. Oh, I guess that's it, right? Yeah.
Heather: You can't have drunk kids in your house or like [00:42:00] your liability.
Zoe: Well, also, um, like it took years, my parents would still find like we would smoke like in the water bottles. Mm-hmm. Like the, I don't even remember how we would call it the bucket systems. Mm-hmm. They were finding water bottles for years after that party in the backyard.
Heather: Oh my God.
Zoe: But that was the first time that I think I ever like got in trouble for it.
Okay. And that's when like every, they all knew what I was doing because. The weed of it all, the drinking of it all, whatever.
Heather: Yeah. The grandness of it all. Yeah. Like there's so many people in this house and you're like, holy shit. What happened? Yeah. And when you went back to school the next day or on the Monday, was it like, oh fuck yeah, I had a party?
I think so. Okay. I think it was pretty like, fuck yeah. And that's who you care about? Yeah. Like you care about your friends thinking you're cool, you care about the people at school thinking you're cool. I don't care
Zoe: about my family at this point. Like, you move, you took me to Sarnia, I hate you guys, and now I'm in
Heather: trouble.
Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah. Like I'm re a little, a lot of it is retaliation, I think.
Heather: Totally [00:43:00] makes sense.
Zoe: Um, retaliation, wanting to fit in, wanting to be cool, but then it just, like, it took me, like alcohol took me and it didn't let me go. I couldn't, one day I woke up and I just like couldn't stop it.
Heather: Okay. Do you. When you're saying I'm drinking every day.
Yeah. Are you drinking to excess every day or are you like having a few beers with your friends? Like what is the drinking level?
Zoe: Yeah, probably like a few. I'm probably not getting
Heather: wasted. Wasted
Zoe: every single day. Okay. But, um, there was like a few months where like I would steal my parents booze at this point and my friends would steal their parents' booze.
My friend's mom like, made wine and had a bunch of like wine that she made in her basement. So she brought a wine bottle to class, to school like every day for maybe a few months. And we would just drink it together in the stall on lunch. At school. At school. Just so cool. Just like [00:44:00] chug it back mm-hmm.
Together during lunch. I wouldn't really eat like this is like, I didn't have an eating disorder. All my friends around me had an eating disorder. I would just like forget to eat. Mm-hmm. And like, because I was too focused on drinking that, I was just like, oh yeah, yeah, I guess I need to eat food now that I'm hung over.
Like I just, it wasn't an active thing that I was doing. It just wasn't, yeah. I wasn't worried about eating food. I was worried about drinking alcohol. Yeah. And smoking weed.
Heather: Hmm.
Zoe: Um, so this is where, so you would drink at lunch? I would drink at lunch. Like sometimes. Okay. Like, I think this was like a phase of like a couple months that we did that every day.
And then I think she got a really bad eating disorder and had to go to treatment for it, to be honest. Dang. Yeah. A lot of, I knew a lot of people in Sarnia that had committed suicide. Like it's a big thing in really Sarnia, like I knew personally, I think three girls who committed suicide in high school and like [00:45:00] eating disorders were a huge thing.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I remember I sat with my friends while we were praying to go to a party and they were all cutting themselves Oh. While we were drinking. And I was like, Hey, I guess I'm gonna cut myself out. Like,
Heather: I guess that's what we're doing. If I walk into a house, I'm doing what you're doing. Yeah. Like if we're drinking, if we're smoking crack, if we're, I don't know, whatever we're doing, um, taxidermy, I'm doing it.
Zoe: So I like cut myself a little bit on my inner thigh and I was like, okay, this isn't for me. And then I just like, yeah,
Heather: no. Okay. I
Zoe: still
Heather: have like the tiny scar and I'm like, you fucking idiot. You say, I'm like, am I just such a prude and so afraid of the world, but like the fear of drinking at school? Yeah.
It, it wouldn't even cross my mind. Yeah. Like going to like the dances or whatever that we had, like people were drunk in the bathroom. Yeah. And I was like, the fear of that. Yeah. I would get, there's no way I'd be in so much trouble. Yeah. But you didn't have that. Like you seem to have like,
Zoe: yeah, I, for some reason, version, it didn't, [00:46:00] I didn't fucking care.
Like yeah, ground me all you want like yell at me all you want. I don't fucking care. Like this is too, this is what I wanna do.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I don't knows.
Heather: So interesting. Yeah. Can we talk about skating?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: So where are we at with skating? We moved to Sarnia and now we have to go to,
Zoe: honestly, as soon as I started like drinking and like being popular and whatever that meant, it was on like the back burner.
Okay. It really did fall off. So
Heather: ninth grade,
Zoe: I'd say like ninth grade, I was still doing good. 10th grade is when it started to fall off. Um, 11th and 12th grade. I still did it, but I wasn't competing. Okay. Yeah.
Heather: Okay. Did you like your new coach?
Zoe: No. Like it, no one could replace the coach. I hadn't felt like it wasn't the same.
Yeah, it didn't feel the same. And like the coaches in Strath Roy were like, I did skating in Strath Roy and in Sarnia. Those coaches in Sarnia were just like. They weren't as like, competitive with it. Yeah. Like I did like the coaches in Strath [00:47:00] Roy, but again, I felt like I was coming from somewhere else.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And I didn't grow up with this guy coach, you know? Yeah. And also, I'm not as good as everyone in Strath Roy.
Heather: Okay. So it's not
Zoe: like I'm like coming in and being the best ever.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: Um, so I just like kind of took a back seat on that, I think.
Heather: Were you feeling intimidated at skating?
Zoe: I think so.
Interesting. Yeah.
Heather: But you're not feeling intimidated to go to a new school once you've started, like you're drinking. Yeah. I mean, even walking into the new school, you're like, I'm, I'm introducing myself to people. Like I have to survive here.
Zoe: Yeah. And then I think I was. Like, I tried to do it with skating, but then it just, it really wasn't super, like, I couldn't compete and like smoke and drink the way that I was doing it, you know?
Yeah. I like in CO before I went into practice, maybe in 11th and 12th grade, like I would be smoking a cigarette before going into skating, you know, like I [00:48:00] was, there's no way I was gonna do good, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heather: Were you, um, oh, I was gonna say something, and I would
Zoe: get stoned at school with one of my friends I skated with.
Okay. Me and her would get stoned at school before going to skating and go to skating together. Oh, super high. I would've hated you. Yeah. Holy shit. Like I wasn't bad. No, no. Like in sar, when I skated in Sarnia, I was probably like top five skaters there. When I went to Strathroy, I was probably like one of the lower skaters in Strat.
It was like the big pond. Yeah. Okay. Um, so yeah, like it was just like, it. Wasn't as important to me.
Heather: Do you think at the beginning of grade nine Yeah, the friendships were more important and then it switched to drinking. Like once drinking came in. Do you feel like that was the most important thing? I wasn't
Zoe: even like focused on the friends of it all.
Heather: Yeah. I
Zoe: was focused on like how I was being perceived, I guess, and like the popularity of it all, which is so just like [00:49:00] sad and like really I feel bad for that girl. Like she was, why was she trying so hard to fit in and why did fitting in for her mean getting so fucked up? You know,
Heather: I wonder, I mean. I mean, it's really chaotic.
Mm-hmm. It's really chaotic to leave your home and have to start new. Mm-hmm. And then to then have to be perfect and go to school and go to skating. Yeah. When I'm mad at you guys and I don't know what's going on. Like they, they really took you away from everything that was grounding.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And so now it's like, well, if I'm up in the air already, I might as well fucking follow it.
Zoe: Yeah. You know? And I think I really just did like that feeling of like being free when I was drunk. Like Yeah. When I was drunk, I really just like felt freedom and I felt safety and that's what I needed. I'm wonder if it
Heather: feels for kids who do move like that and especially fuck going into grade nine.
Yeah. It is crazy.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But I wonder how stabilizing that [00:50:00] is Yes. In the moment, but then also for like the rest of your high school career, you're like. Even if they say they're staying at their jobs, I don't know. Yeah. I can be your friend, but I don't know if I'm gonna be here. Like I had a best friend back home and that was great.
And we were like playing Sims and watching friends and then, but we're not friends anymore because they took me away. So I can't really guarantee I'm gonna be here. I wonder if there's any of that going on, like inside and then you're like, let me just calm it all down and go to my own world.
Zoe: I don't know what, if you're like, no.
I dunno if I was like, future tripping, like, like mm-hmm. I think I was just trying to survive. Mm-hmm. You know, and that, and I really just did like drinking. I think I liked how it made me feel.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, so yeah, like things just progressively got worse in high school. Like I did get arrested, um, on Canada Day, maybe in grade 10 or 11.
I don't know. That
Heather: was just for being drunk outside. Right.
Zoe: That was just for being drunk outside and like I [00:51:00] had a bottle and weed in my backpack and I didn't know that you could tell cops to not search your bag.
Heather: Yeah, I don't know either. So,
Zoe: yeah. Well, they came up to us 'cause we were like noticeably drunk and they were like, let me look in your bag.
And I was like, okay. But I guess I could have said, no, you can't look in my bag.
Heather: It's also such a power trip for like an adult male cop to come up to a child. Girl, yeah. And be like, what's in your bag? Yeah. Like, bitch, what's in your bag? Literally like what you got on your camera, what you got on your phone?
Zoe: So that was, I think maybe that was before my high school party, honestly. You got arrested? I got arrested, taken to jail. My dad picked me up in jail. Who did he yell? Of course, I think that might have been before my high school party. So like who
Heather: scarier? Your mom or your dad? My dad. Okay.
Zoe: Yeah. My dad would like actually yell and then I think my mom would just like start crying.
Oh no.
Heather: Yeah. No, no, no.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: That is so unhelpful. I
Zoe: know.
Heather: Oh, I don't know why that got me so good. Like you. That's not cool. [00:52:00]
Zoe: It was not, it was not a good situation at all. It wasn't helpful. I didn't, I didn't know what to do. I knew I was like in the wrong, I knew I was doing a bad thing whenever, like I would get caught.
But like, I, I truly didn't care. I don't know what's fun. It's fun. I was in high school. I just thought that this is what everyone was doing. I thought this is what I was supposed to be doing. I liked it. Um, I would like smoke weed in my parents' backyard when they weren't home. And then sometimes I would come home early and catch me and it would be a whole thing and they'd yell at me.
And then I was smoking weed in my. In my bedroom, blowing it out the window. I was making like easy bake brownie weed cookies out my window. Like with my friends, we would eventually start doing Molly with these guys tripping in my bedroom like we were making out with each other us girls. And my mom walked in, she's like, what the fuck is going on?
You know, like, it just like started progressively getting worse. Tried the tried cocaine, [00:53:00] Molly, grade 11, grade 12 maybe. Um, and then I had that boyfriend in grade 12 and all we did together was have sex and smoke weed and drink pause
Heather: when you're getting in trouble for smoking weed outside or like you're getting in trouble.
Every time you smoke weed or every time you do something and it's just hit with punishment. Yeah. Are you getting grounded?
Zoe: No. You're just getting yelled at. Really? I'm just getting yelled at. I don't think, I think they knew they couldn't control me. Did you? You know what I mean? Because I think like, I would rebel and like run away.
My, my friend like ran away to my house when her mom yelled at her and there was like a police report and like, she was literally hiding under my covers for like a day. Like it was crazy. It's the wild west out there. It's the wild west out there. And I think they knew that, like my parents knew, like they just got out of hand so fast and they really couldn't control me.
They couldn't tell me what to do because I was gonna rebel either way.
Heather: Did they ever, and, and I'm never gonna, there are some [00:54:00] parents that I will be judging in the world, but like, I'm not judging your parents at all because it is, you have a kid and this is getting outta control. Yeah. You have jobs, you're trying, you think you're doing the right thing.
Was there ever a conversation, a sit down conversation that was like empathetic and like. Zoe, what's going on?
Zoe: I don't think so. I think, I think they had that probably with me in university, but in high school I don't remember having like a sit down, like heart to heart with them and university. Maybe they did 'cause they were like, okay, I need to take, we need to go to therapy.
Like we need to do to do something.
Heather: You're on your own. Yeah.
Zoe: Um, but yeah, in high school I don't remember a conversation like that.
Heather: Yeah. And mind you, I think they were
Zoe: just like hoping that it was high school and that I would grow out of it. Yeah. I truly, that's probably what they were thinking. Mm-hmm. Um,
Heather: yeah.
And we can kind of control it 'cause she's in the house. Yeah. Um, would they get mad that your friends were drinking in the house or, or smoking? Of course. Yeah. Okay. Like
Zoe: I was hiding it from them.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: We [00:55:00] were doing it every day. Did they know every day? Probably not. Like we did get good at hiding it. We'd go down to my beach.
Like we had, we'd smoke in random schools like. We found little pockets of Sarnia to smoke and get fucked up at smoke and weed. And there was like, there was parties every weekend in Sarnia. Like there was something going on. Um, I don't know,
Heather: it's hard to hide smoking weed's. Weed. Yeah. Between smells, it smells alcohol.
At least you can kind of like, I don't know, do it behind a bush. I
Zoe: know. I would think I was definitely like a, I was a stoner in high school, to be honest.
Heather: And what is the feeling of like, you are doing these things, you're drinking, you're smoking, you're having so much fucking fun, right? Like you are having fun with your friends, you feel good, your parents are saying, this is bad, this is bad.
Are you feeling like I should stop? Or like, yeah, this is bad. I'm gonna keep doing it 'cause it's fun and I don't really care.
Zoe: I didn't really care. Yeah. And I maybe a part of me thought like, oh, I'm in high school. I ha I should be doing these things. Like, [00:56:00] I don't know, like. I remember just like listening to like Lord's one album.
Mm-hmm. And like, like, or the weekend, like the partying of it all. Like I craved that. Like I wanted to live that. Yeah. Experience, like watching even skins growing up. Mm-hmm. Like, I was like, this is my, I want this to be my life. I like that.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I don't know why I like that, but I wanna live like that. This
Heather: is the part that I'm so interested in actually.
Yeah. Because again, like, and maybe the way that I was raised, or how it was spoken about in my community of like Christians mm-hmm. But the party girls, the partying, like the Lindsay Lohan, the Paris Hiltons, I loved it. Right. It's, it's interesting because I was like, oh, we can't be like that. I think it, I think I, I liked it because I was also like really into the fact that people were having sex and people were talking about it in magazines.
Mm-hmm. And like slutty or like cheating. But I was like. Oh, we can't do this. Yeah. This is like a devil woman.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But you were like, that
Zoe: looks fucking fun. Maybe it just like wasn't talked about [00:57:00] enough.
Heather: I'm wondering,
Zoe: I'm wondering if it was that like my parents weren't like saying that that was wrong growing up, so I didn't know it was wrong.
Mm-hmm. So when, then when, when it was presented to me, I was like, oh, that looks so much fun and cool.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: And yeah. I don't know why I associated that as being fun and cool.
Heather: Yeah. Because the stoners at my school, we were like, those are the stoners. Yeah. Like they're, they weren't the cool, I mean, they were cool in their own little way, but it was like the cool kids were like drinking on the weekends.
Yeah. But the stoners, you were like, yeah. I mean, they don't go to school. They don't Yeah. Go to class. They just sit out by the sign and smoke weed. Yeah. And like, that's not, that doesn't look like appealing. Yeah. But to you it was like, it was
Zoe: a, that was like what I wanted. Yeah. You
Heather: had like a little ecosystem in there.
Zoe: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, not
Heather: to say you weren't cool, just like the perception of things Yeah. Is so different,
Zoe: so crazy. I don't, I don't know why it connected to me like that.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I just loved it. [00:58:00] I loved being a little stoner and like looking up at the clouds and like being dazed and like not having a care in the world.
Like I didn't, I loved that feeling.
Heather: Plus you liked the perception of it. You like how you were being perceived or that was important to you? Yeah. It's interesting to work so hard to fit in. Yeah. And then, and then chill out at the end of the day. Like let it all go. It's almost like you had to do that.
Yeah. It's like, I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, but going to school and. Even if you're like, yeah, these are my friends. I'm fitting in, I'm fitting in, I'm actively fitting in. Yeah.
Zoe: I'm trying to be someone I'm not to fit in. Yeah. And
Heather: now when I go home and I'm with these people and I'm drinking or smoking, it's like, now I'm myself.
Yeah. And they're cool with me because I'm stoned and they're stoned.
Zoe: But I think like also it became like quickly, like I didn't like what I was doing and that's why I'm smoking weed by myself to go to sleep. You know? It like in grade 10, I was definitely like smoking and or drinking by myself. Like it wasn't a social thing.
Like I quickly was like, oh, [00:59:00] I like this because I don't like who I am.
Heather: Do you remember the first time you drank by yourself? Would
Zoe: it been like after party? No, but like, it was probably like very quickly. Mm-hmm.
Heather: Yeah. Okay. And when you drink by yourself, do you have any I any, any re any uh, memory of being like, oh, I'm doing this alone?
Zoe: No. Okay.
Heather: So it wasn't significant to you. It was just like, I think
Zoe: like probably when I was stealing booze from my parents for parties. I was like, oh, let's just take a swig right now.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Let's just get it going before I go to my friend's place. What
Heather: is it about parents who have like a cabinet full of liquor that they never drink?
Yeah. What are you doing? Yeah. Like is that just from parties and stuff and you're like, that looks cute. I'm gonna put it in the cabinet. I mean,
Zoe: yeah. Like my parents drank a lot too, so I think they sometimes they didn't notice. 'cause I would only take a little bit.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Like they would have like a four or five big jugs.
I would take a little bit of each. Yeah. And then two nights after that they would drink some and then I could drink more. Yeah. You [01:00:00] know,
Heather: we'd call that the kitchen sink. Yeah.
Zoe: We
Heather: put everything
Zoe: in the same bottle. In the same bottle. Um, and I think quickly, like I was becoming friends with guys who would buy us alcohol.
So they're older, whatever. Yeah. And
Heather: how are you making friends with them? Just at parties.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And
Zoe: when are you. Okay, so now we're gonna go to university, I think. Wait, when you quit skating? Yeah. What did that feel like? It wasn't, I never like quit, I just stopped competing. And I think it was gradual because I was like, yeah, like I, I think when I moved to Sarnia it was kind of like, I doubt I'm gonna continue this the way that I am because my coach isn't here, to be honest.
Heather: Gotcha. Have you had sex yet
Zoe: in high school? Yeah, of course.
Heather: When,
Zoe: um, I think, of course going into grade 10, I think I lost my virginity with like a random guy that I knew in Oakville and I just wanted to lose it.
Heather: Okay. All of these things that I'm noticing are just like, it's no thought. It's just I'm doing it.
Yeah. And it's like fun and it [01:01:00] feels good and I'm following 'cause I'm not
Zoe: thinking 'cause I'm high and like drunk. I'm not really thinking about anything. I'm just like doing it. And did you have sex? Because you wanted
Heather: to, or because people were like, that's cool. Oh, my friends were having
Zoe: sex and I'm saying it was cool.
Okay. Yeah.
Heather: And then you were like, I gotta go, I gotta do it too.
Zoe: Yeah. And I didn't wanna do it with someone in Sarnia 'cause I, I just wanted it to be like, done and over with. So I just like knew this guy in Oakville had sex with him. And Were you scared that was it? No, I, we were both like really stoned.
Heather: Yeah. But still,
Zoe: I would like, didn't feel anything. Okay. You know, I couldn't feel anything. Yeah. I dunno. I couldn't feel anything. I wasn't scared. I didn't feel a sort, sort of way about it. I wasn't happy that it was over. Yeah. I was happy I did it.
Heather: And then were you excited to tell everyone?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah.
I was very excited too.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Okay. Interesting.
Zoe: Yeah. The, um, the boyfriend I had in grade 12, like was. Scum. Like he, was he in 12th grade [01:02:00] lived? No, he was older. He lived on like the poorest street in Sarnia, like Right. He just allowed me to drink every day with him and smoke weed with him every day, provided me drugs and alcohol.
That's why I liked him. Um, and then I told him like, I'm moving to Toronto for school, and he tried to come with me to Toronto and quickly he hated the city. Yeah. Because he hasn't been anywhere in his life except for Sarnia. So he moved back and then I was working at and going to school for photography at Ryerson.
Mm-hmm. Now it's called TMU.
Heather: Okay. So you graduated high school? Yeah. Like I and TMU is not that easy to get into. Yeah. Like you do have to have an 80 in English. Like you do have to
Zoe: I was fine in school. Yeah. Like, even though I was getting fucked up somehow every day, like I still like was getting like B average, you know?
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, I
Heather: don't get that at. Oh yeah, I don't get that. You can have like a priority that's like so fun and [01:03:00] nonchalant and like getting fucked up and doing whatever and then still getting shit done. I don't know either.
Zoe: I don't have that. I really didn't know how I did it. Um, kid energy when I, when we would go on trips in high school too.
I just wanted to mention this. I would always get in-school detentions because we'd go on these school trips and I would always sneak into the boys' rooms to do drugs and alcohol with them. I wasn't even going into their rooms to like have sex with them. Drugs.
Heather: What kind
Zoe: of drugs? Weed. Just weed. Weed.
Okay. I think me, I don't know. I think at that point it was just weird. Mm-hmm. But nothing would be, like, nothing could get in my way of like. Like my other friends would, they would wanna go into the guys' rooms to like hook up with them or like make out with them. But I was too far along where I was like, I don't even like really care about that.
Like I just wanna drink with them and I just wanna like have, yeah, I need to smoke weed. I can't be on the school trip and not like, be high or drunk. Right now. We have to go to their room and we have to do that. Yeah. Okay. I don't know, I was just [01:04:00] like, I was, I just want all that to say, I was like into it already.
I, in high school I was definitely an alcoholic.
Heather: This is, this is also a question and I'm sorry if I'm being annoying. Yeah. When do you feel like you got addicted? Like when do you feel like it got you, it can be different for like, it might not be,
Zoe: I don't know. I think like as soon, like that first time I drank, I drank to get blackout.
Mm-hmm. And ever since that moment I wanted to drink to get blackout.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: It was instant kind of for me. Okay.
Heather: So you were an addict in high school?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Yeah. I mean that's what it seems like. Yeah. It's just sometimes it doesn't feel like, yeah. A real issue.
Zoe: I didn't realize there was an issue until university.
Mm-hmm.
Heather: And why, why was university an issue?
Zoe: Well, because then I would, I, um, realized like my friends would tell me, people who I valued their opinions I guess were like, Hey, you're getting way too fucked up. Okay. My friend gave me an ultimatum basically like, you can either go to therapy and figure out your drinking or we can't be friends.
So I did therapy for a bit because she told me that.
Heather: Didn't she set you up with a [01:05:00] therapist? She that set me
Zoe: up with a therapist. Yeah. That was my third first therapist. My parents were thrilled that I was talking to someone about this, but obviously I was lying to them about how bad my drinking was and they were trying to control my drinking and like saying, okay, we'll only drink on weekends, only drink four drinks a night, blah, blah, blah.
I couldn't only have four drinks a night. Sure. I would have four drinks a night one night. The next night I'd have 17. It wasn't working. And
Heather: the harm reduction doesn't work when you are fully addicted to alcohol and I
Zoe: didn't know that so. That friend left me. I just kept going down this rabbit hole and I kept getting in trouble.
I got fired from jobs, got in trouble at school for being very fucked up in lectures. Um, this
Heather: immediate, like when you moved to Toronto and you started going to class, like you're still, you're just drinking everything. Well, I
Zoe: had to make new friends now in Toronto, so I had to like figure [01:06:00] out my friend group in this in.
I was working at a restaurant, so I made some friends from the restaurant, and then I had my friends from school. Mm-hmm. So as soon as I got like a friend group, I was going at it. You know, my, you're good
Heather: at that too. Like you're good at making friends I guess
Zoe: so I, I'm good at adapting to the situation.
Well, not
Heather: only that, but you're also a really good friend where like you Yeah. You give a fuck about your friends and you make a lot of time for them. Yeah. I don't know where you're finding time, but it's clearly I have no time. Yeah. But it's, it's pretty incredible. It's like, it wasn't like, yeah, it's a survival thing for you, but I also think you're so good at it that it's like, yeah.
Zoe: I think that's it too. I think like I am a good person at the end of the day, even though like I'm going crazy. I am a good person and that's why I can make friends. Yeah. And like have these relationships. But the friends that I had in the restaurant were all older. So
Heather: yeah,
Zoe: I would go to school, go to work.
Until like 12 and then go out to the club with these older [01:07:00] friends from the restaurant until like three in the morning. Mm-hmm. Pretty much every day. I was 17 when I moved here, but since I was like going out with them, I got in everywhere and I had a fake ID and I was like ordering dial a bottle using my fake id.
Yeah.
Heather: Which I did not know about.
Zoe: And I was going, and then when that worked for a really long time, I built the courage up to go to the LCBO with my fake id and it worked too.
Heather: Oh
Zoe: fuck. Yeah. So, and my LCBO was in the same building as my condo, so it was like very accessible to me. I was like, fuck yes.
Perfect, perfect. Don't have to go that far. So I think like, yeah, just progressively, like it was wor it was bad in high school and then in university I was, I had the freedom to do it as much. Were you sitting in a dorm room? No,
Heather: it was an apartment. Yeah. Okay.
Zoe: My parents had. Bought a place and I moved into it.
Okay. Yeah. Got it, got it, got it. By myself.
Heather: Did they say anything to you before you went to university? Were they like, Hey, [01:08:00] chill out on the drinking or no?
Zoe: No. I think they also like, just thought that it was gonna go away when I went there. Yeah. You get too busy
Heather: with school, you'd have new friends, everything would be fine.
Zoe: Yeah. And it was not, and when I had that therapist, they were really happy. And then I dropped it because it wasn't working, but I, it wasn't working 'cause I was lying. You were lying to her. Um, and then I got like another therapist, like this is when I was trying to control my drinking. I was just like getting new therapist.
I was getting a counselor at school. I went to Cam HI was vegetarian. I started trying to work
Heather: out. Just threw that one in there.
Zoe: Yeah. Like I was just like, I thought like being vegetarian would save me. 'cause like I, at least I'm being healthy so I'm not gonna make bad decisions if I'm being held. Just like anything to stop me.
From doing what I was doing did that was doing, did that ever
Heather: switch over? Did you ever go like, oh, I'm being healthy, like I'm eating really healthy so now I can drink? Yeah, of course.
Zoe: Yeah. Okay. Of
Heather: course. Yeah. That's how it [01:09:00] works. Yeah. That's literally how it works. It's like, oh, I'll stop drinking and I'll do this.
Yeah. And it's like, well, if I'm doing this, I can, I can drink and I deserve to drink then. Yeah. Why am I being so hard on myself? I don't have to stop drinking. Yeah. And how was your therapist trying to deal with you trying to control your drinking? Like what were they saying?
Zoe: I don't necessarily remember, but I think that they were just trying to like give me tests to do when I was going out to drink, like limit myself.
I, like I said, I could limit myself one day and not the next. Yeah. And it was,
Heather: you can't, you, you can't control your drinking.
Zoe: Yeah. And it's not like a thing. And I do resent therapists. Because they never said, yo, you can't handle this. You, I gave you a test and you didn't achieve it. Oh, maybe you should stop forever and go to rehab.
Heather: I know. I don't know what they're allowed to say. Like, they can't tell you what to do. They would have to wait for you to be like, so I think that this isn't gonna work and I should go to rehab. And then they can, but they can't like tell you. Yeah. At the same time, at the same time, you were not gonna go like, well, do
Zoe: [01:10:00] you think that you're controlling your drinking?
Do you think you can control this? Yeah, I agree. But, but honestly, they probably were asking me those questions and I probably was saying yes because I didn't want them to take it away from me. Yeah. Let's be real.
Heather: Yeah. Also, then you kind of, did you start to feel bad like being in therapy and just being like, oh my God, I should be getting my shit together.
And I'm like lying to her, but I'm just gonna drink. Did that make you feel bad?
Zoe: I think like I was only going, I probably was only going to therapy though to like make people happy, you know? Yeah. Like I don't, I don't know if I ever believed I could drink normally. Mm-hmm. To be honest.
Heather: Part two of Zoey's story drops next week.
Hit subscribe and we'll see you soon. Proud of you.
Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Undrunk podcast and or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com. And before we go, thank you to our amazing producer, [01:11:00] Ariane Michaud, show and support from her team at Consciously Produced Martin Nunez- Bonilla for the graphics. Ian Sitt for setting up our sound and Daniel James for the music and final edits. This podcast would not be possible without you.
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