#17: It Was Instant Part 2 (Zoe’s Story)
Zoe shares Part 2 of her story, tracing the spiral from fun college nights to blackouts, balcony standoffs, and a DUI. She opens up about hitting rock bottom during COVID, landing in rehab in her early twenties, and facing the truth: the only way forward was to stop drinking for good. Now, nearly three years sober, Zoe reflects on rebuilding her life—and the surprising joy of living without alcohol.
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It Was Instant Part 2 Transcript
Heather: [00:00:00] This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening. Last week on Girl Undrunk. Cheers babe. Ooh, cheers. Curious Elixirs, use our code Un drunk for $10 off on orders over $50. How did it get you? Why did it get you?
Zoe: I think it was pretty instant for me this first time I drank, I got blackout and I chased that blackout ever since.
And then in grade eight I was told that we're gonna move to Sarnia. At this point, I was like, I do never want to do drugs. Like when Dare came to the school in like grade seven, I was like, oh, okay. I will never do drugs and wanting to fit in, wanting to be cool. But then it just like, it took me like alcohol took me and it.
Didn't let me go. One day I woke up and I just like couldn't stop it. A lot of it is retaliation, I think.
Heather: Totally. You were like, that looks fucking fun.
Zoe: Maybe it just like wasn't talked about enough.
Heather: I'm wondering, [00:01:00] I'm wondering if it was that like my parents
Zoe: weren't like saying that that was wrong growing up when it was presented to me, I was like, oh, that looks so much fun and cool.
Okay. I associated that as being fun and cool. When we would go on trips in high school, I would always seek into the boys' rooms to do drugs and alcohol with them, like nothing could get in my way. My friend gave me an ultimatum basically like, you can either go to therapy and figure out your drinking or we can't be friends.
So I did therapy for a bit, but obviously I was lying to them about how bad my drinking was. I couldn't only have four drinks a night. Sure. I would have four drinks a night one night. The next night I'd have 17.
Heather: So you're your first year university. You're going to class [00:02:00] drunk, you're going, you're doing everything. You have your friends, you're working at the restaurant you get fired from. Yeah.
Zoe: Why? Because I was, I told him I was high. I told, well, the manager came over to me and he was like, you look a little bit tired today.
And I was like, yeah, I smoked some weed before and took a nap. Like I'm feeling okay.
Heather: Yeah. But
Zoe: I only told him that because me and him did cocaine two weeks ago at a party together. So like we're chill. Yeah. Or so I thought.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And then he ratted me out and told like the upper management that I said that
Heather: When, when did you do cocaine for the first time?
In high school. Oh, in high school? Yeah. Okay.
Zoe: Okay. And that
Heather: wasn't scary.
Zoe: No. Even after dare. No.
Heather: All right.
Zoe: I know. It's just crazy how it like switched so instantly for me.
Heather: Some people are very fear averse. A lot of addicts are fear averse. Yeah. This your life is very fear averse after you move to Sarnia.
Zoe: Yeah. And then like Yeah, like it even me standing on the edge of my balcony, like not fear, I wasn't scared of that at all.
Heather: Yeah. We're gonna get [00:03:00] to that. Where
Zoe: are we
Heather: in
Zoe: the
Heather: timeline?
Zoe: We've
Heather: we're
Zoe: fired from where you get another job. We get another job.
Heather: We're still in school. Yeah, we're still in school.
School going,
Zoe: I mean it's okay. Mm-hmm.
Heather: Like are you gonna class?
Zoe: I'm going to class. Yeah. And, but were most classes I'm going to like, I didn't go to every single class, but like Yeah. I was going to the campus bar between classes. Mm-hmm. I wasn't fully committing myself to Well, 'cause
Heather: alcohol is the most important thing.
Exactly. Did you find drinking friends?
Zoe: Yeah. Like I found my friends in university. Mm-hmm. And they drank with me as much. Not as much. And I think that they liked me because I drank way more than them. So it gave, it showed them that they weren't like a problem. That's Yeah. That bad. Uh, it's nice to, and now that I stopped to, everyone's now looking at their drinking.
Heather: Isn't that weird? Yeah. Isn't that so weird? Like the conversations after sobriety, it's like, well, maybe I should, and it's like, yeah, I know. 'cause I like pseudo shamed you by accident. Yeah. By going
Zoe: to rehab. It's like, [00:04:00] yeah. I think, um, yeah, like in universities, when I knew that I didn't drink normally and I knew that I should probably get help.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: And I feel like I tried. But I knew I wasn't committing myself fully because I didn't wanna actually stop, you know, you have a problem, like, you know, you can stop. I knew I had a problem and like I didn't want to stop it. I just wanted to like make people not mad at me so I could keep drinking.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And it was just like a cycle. It's a lot of work. Um, and then COVID happens and I think I had like one more semester of high of University left. Okay. When COVID happens, I knew I should go to Sarnia because I would drink myself to death by myself in Toronto because my friends were not gonna see me.
'cause they were taking it very seriously and they lived with their family. So you didn't [00:05:00] care? No, I wanted to still hang out with them. Yeah. But they're like, I'm not my friends were like, I'm not seeing anybody. Yeah. Like, we're taking this seriously. I'm not gonna see you.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Now I was like, okay, well shit, I can't stay in Toronto by myself and my condo because I'm gonna drink myself to death or I'm gonna jump off my balcony.
Heather: Were you already, were you already doing the balcony stuff? Yeah.
Zoe: Okay. Yeah, let's talk about the balcony stuff. Yeah, the balcony stuff was like in an like I, I ended up going to hospitals in, yeah. I don't think I went to a hospital in high school. I think the hospital things started in university. Yeah,
Heather: because you were running away from your friends.
I was
Zoe: running away from my friends. I was like just like falling in the street, like almost getting run over, threatening to kill myself in front of people.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Standing on my balcony. Balcony on the railing of your balcony. On
Heather: the railing of the balcony. But that was in a blackout, right? Those are in blackouts when that's happening?
Zoe: [00:06:00] Yes and no. Like I'm pretty sure I came to one time and I was like standing on the edge and I was like, oh. And then I stepped off and Didn't someone see you up there once? Well, yeah. My friend was over once and that's when she called the cops one time. Oh, she did? Yeah. Because you were standing on the railing of your balcony on the 45th floor.
And then I told the cops like, I didn't invite her over. I don't know why she's here. Like I was Yeah. A total psycho person. They're like, that's the problem. Yeah.
Heather: Drunk idiot. Like, I never
Zoe: invited her over. Why is she even
Heather: here? Were you, um, having suicidal ideation in a real way? Like, were you like, I wanna die?
Or just when you were drinking? Yeah. Well, I
Zoe: think like, I wanted to die, so I knew I, like, I was like, okay, I'm gonna die from drinking myself to death. Yeah. Like, I want, I am not gonna actively like cut myself or kill myself, but I know that drinking is gonna kill me. So like, let's just fucking go
Heather: because there is a switch for you.
Right. Like high school's [00:07:00] Fun. Fun, fun, fun. You're thrilled Yeah. To be drinking, having sex, doing drugs with your friends, and then it turns to this is gonna kill me. Mm-hmm. So something happens between leaving high school and getting to university. Where it's just now it's taken a different route and it's like
Zoe: depression.
Heather: Yeah. That's what it
Zoe: sounds like to me. It's just like it's been going on now for four plus years of me doing this.
Heather: Yeah. And I wonder if that's also changing your brain chemistry too. Yeah. It's just like now you're mush. Yeah. You know, mind you, alcohol is a depressant, so even if you don't have depression, it's depressing you.
Yeah. Like you are getting depressed from it. Makes sense.
Zoe: I didn't like the things that I was doing when I was drunk either. Like I would wake up like so terrified of what I did, not knowing what I did, not knowing what I said, like I didn't like that, but like, did I keep drinking? Of course. Yeah. Well, you have to.
I have to. Um, yeah, it just became like a cycle [00:08:00] and I didn't want to die. But I didn't want to live with the feelings I was having. Yeah. So I was like, okay, I need to drink. Like there was no other escape.
Heather: I think that's like a really, really important point. Yeah. To make that all these things are going wrong.
People are telling you to stop, you know, you should stop. But like, how am I supposed to stop now? How am I supposed to be sober and then have to deal with all of the collateral that I did? Yeah. The things I did. Now I'm gonna think about what I did, the text messages I sent, the fights, the sex, the whatever.
How am I supposed to do that?
Zoe: Yeah. How am
Heather: I supposed to get sober and think about all that?
Zoe: Yeah. I couldn't. Mm-hmm. Um, it's very hard to do. And then when COVID happened, I think it just like made it 10 times worse because I. There was nothing going on. The world was shut down. Mm-hmm. And I got [00:09:00] this other boyfriend in Sarnia on Hinge, or how he was like, I knew him from high school.
Okay. Oh, right, okay. Yeah. So he made it like acce. He was a full-blown addict, alcoholic as well. So all my boyfriends were addicts and alcoholics, but he was probably like the worst one. Um mm-hmm. And he made it like fully acceptable for me to like, drink all day every day. You know, like, I don't think, and I had to live for anything else, and I just like fully took this on, like, as like, yeah, I'm an alcoholic.
Let's go. Like, I think before I was like, uh, I don't know, like I drink too much a lot of the time, but I don't know if I'm out. I, I'm an alcoholic. I think this is where I lean into like, yeah, I'm an alcoholic, and like, this is just what I am now and I can't change.
Heather: Mm-hmm. Wow. Like fully accepting it. Yeah.
And did that scare
Zoe: you or were [00:10:00] you happy to have a label? I think I was happy to have a label and I was happy to have someone that like was an addict as well. Having a, my COVID boyfriend really made it acceptable for me to like really live in my, um, true like addiction alcoholic self. He also like was really, he was way more into Coke than I was.
Like, he sought that out like almost every day and I wasn't the one being like, we need to get coke, but he was like, we need to get coke. And I was like, okay, we'll get Coke. Yeah. Like I could never say no to that.
Heather: Did you get addicted to it, to Coke?
Zoe: I don't think so. Okay. Because again, like I never like sought it out.
Yeah. I was never like, Hey, let's get Coke.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: He was always the one saying it and I was always the one like just doing it.
Heather: Yeah. I think sometimes people think like. Oh, you're just addicted to all of it. Or like, if you're doing coke, you're addicted to it. Yeah. Which I think is, is true for a lot of people.
I, I also think that in this case, your alcohol addiction overrode any other addiction that was coming at
Zoe: you? '
Heather: cause it was so strong. [00:11:00]
Zoe: I mean, like, we'll talk about like different things I was addicted to too, because Yeah. I think in high school my main addiction was probably smoking weed, to be honest.
Hmm. And then like going into university, I think like weed was on level with alcohol. And then my boyfriend, my first boyfriend in Toronto, he told me like, we should quit smoking weed. And I was like, that's fine. I can quit smoking weed because I have alcohol. No problem. And I actually like really love drinking and I, let's hone in on that maybe.
Yeah. I quit smoking weed fine. And just like really honed in on the drinking of it all.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: I don't know. I definitely, I said that I was more into smoking weed in high school. Maybe that wasn't true. It was more, it was probably both like high school and in university. I liked them both equally. And then I just knew when my boyfriend was like, we need [00:12:00] to quit smoking weed, that I could drop weed and just like, really focus on drinking.
Yeah. And that's exactly what I did. And I think that's like another turning point where my drinking got really bad. Yeah, you made a choice. Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: Because in high school I feel like, yeah, it's like, it's, it's convoluted 'cause you're doing all these things, you're like, what am I more addicted to? Yeah.
And it's like, in high school it's probably too like what's available? What's available? What's accessible. Yeah. Think so. Precarious. You're so young. Did we have, um, at that time, did we have. Like smoke shop weed shops. So in, no, we didn't, like
Zoe: in university first year I was going to like this illegal smoke shop where like, I really liked the people working there.
Like I made friends with them, whatever. Mm-hmm. There was one summer when I was in university where I was friends with this one girl and she was definitely addicted to Coke.
Heather: Okay. And
Zoe: me and her probably bought it every other day together. Mm-hmm. For like the whole summer. So that summer I was doing a lot of cocaine.
Did you like her or did you just like doing coke or what? I like she was really cool. Yeah. Okay. I really like, I liked hanging out with her because she was cool probably.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And [00:13:00] she did, like, she knew what parties to go to and like, she got into everywhere. She was like in the scene of it all. Cool. Um, so like, it felt like cool hanging out with her and if she wanted to do blow, like I was gonna do blow too, obviously.
Yeah. Um, so like Coke was always there. It's just like, it wasn't something that I was ever like. I am, I need to do this every single day.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: The people that I was surrounding myself were more like, we need to do this every day. And I was like, for sure. Let's do it.
Heather: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Comfy. You don't have to be the one to initiate it.
Everyone around you is doing it.
Zoe: Yeah. And when COVID was going on, like I definitely got a little bit psychotic in that relationship because like of course I was. Mm-hmm. I was fucked up every single day. Were you
Heather: living with him or were you with your parents?
Zoe: I was with my parents, but I was spending a lot of time with him and his family.
Okay. And I like ruined a bunch of family events 'cause I was too fucked up. I ruined a wedding. Like how [00:14:00] I got drunk in a field. Like, I was just like being obnoxious. Yeah. Like, I was, like, I was getting, I couldn't really hide it. You were outta control. I was outta, I was in COVID, I was out of control drinking.
Yeah. Like a lot of the time.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Like, I would say in university, I probably got like out of control drinking maybe like once every couple weeks. And like my friends would be like, yo, you gotta fucking slow down. Yeah. In COVID, I think it was like every other day. Yeah. I would be like getting out of control, like mm-hmm.
Um, still ending up at the hospital in Sarnia. Um, still like threatening to kill myself, especially towards my boyfriend when he like wasn't doing something I, I wanted him to do. You know, like just using that against him. I still
Heather: have that. Yeah. When I, we had like a, like a conversation that. The person that I'm seeing right now, we're both very stressed out about life and our, you know, our own thing.
And we like had a conversation that was just like hard [00:15:00] to have and I felt myself so bad wanting to be like, honestly, I'll just fucking kill myself then. Yeah. Like a, I don't feel that, and b it's just such a tactic. 'cause then you can't say anything to me after I say I'm gonna kill myself. Yeah. You're like, well, conversation over.
Yeah. But I'm like, yeah, yeah. I still kind of have that
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Automatic feeling.
Zoe: Yeah. I definitely use that a lot. And like, whether I believed it or not, like it's fucked up. It's so fucked up. It's so fucked up. But it's,
Heather: but it's, it's what happened. Yeah.
Zoe: I mean, yeah. Um, I think in COV, like I wasn't trying to get help anymore, like that trying period of like going to therapy and all that stuff was in university and COVID.
It was just like. I'm done. Like I'm done. I'm probably gonna die soon. Like I've accepted it. When my boyfriend and COVID broke up with me, I was like, even worse in my addiction and like, why'd he break up with you?
Heather: Because he couldn't fucking [00:16:00] handle me. Okay. I was
Zoe: literally a crazy person. But he was
Heather: a drunk too.
Zoe: Yeah. But like I, you were better. I was, I, he could handle it maybe more than I could. I was, when it was crazy, he could control it a little bit more. Mm-hmm. And I could not, like I was so far beyond gone. Like I was showing up to boyfriend's houses in university too, but I was showing up at his house uninvited, like stalking him, like very like yeah.
Crazy abusive things. Um, very dysregulated. Not
Heather: in your
Zoe: head. And I was like driving at this point, like drunk all the time. Did that scare you? Did you ever have a thought? No, babe. When I was in high school, nothing scared me. So of course now that I'm drinking and driving,
Heather: it's not gonna scare me, but I'm trying to see, 'cause like the law is now involved, like when you're a kid, it's like your parents, I got
Zoe: arrested in high school.
Okay. I don't fucking, I don't think I ever fucking cared. Okay. I didn't care about myself after, I don't even know if I [00:17:00] cared about myself in Oakville because I didn't know myself. I was in grade eight, you know? Yeah. I never got to know myself. I never was familiar with myself. I never loved myself. I was just like, okay, fuck it.
Let's go on this fucking rollercoaster of, of a life. Yeah.
Heather: It's very interesting to me. Yeah. The way that it, it, it makes sense. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, that makes so much sense. You just kind of like fucked off, you know? Yeah. If you and me, were in a car together right now and we're sober. Yeah. And I'm driving.
Great driver. And we got pulled over. Mm-hmm. Not my fault. Would you be scared if we got pulled over?
Zoe: I don't think so. Oh my God. I would,
Heather: I would cry. Really? Yes. I do not like authority. I do not like to be in trouble. I do not like to be yelled at. I don't trust, I don't trust that the consequence is gonna match the, the, the act.
Yeah. And I just don't like it. Speed
Zoe: limit girl. I don't know. I just like, well now I wouldn't be scared because like I know that we're in the right and I know that like everything's gonna work out. Mm-hmm. You know, I [00:18:00] trust that. Sure. I don't, I didn't have the capacity to care or be fearful because I didn't care about myself.
Heather: I think that's the piece, right? Yeah. It's like when you are like, already, like, I'm not in control of myself, I'm going to die. Yeah. Everybody around me thinks that I'm a fucking loser. That's way worse than what Getting arrested. Like that's, I'm gonna die. Who cares? You know?
Zoe: Um, yeah. So I got A-D-U-I-I. I don't even remember getting into my car.
It's so fucked up. And I was going to this guy's house to fuck him, literally so fucked up. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I was like, I don't remember getting, driving or going into the car. And someone called the cops, I guess, saying like, there's someone fucking swerving all over the street riding a curb like, you need to at night to stop her.
No, it was like
Heather: in the early afternoon
Zoe: in Sarnia. Okay.
Heather: So, yeah, so this is what I'm talking about. We've gone from [00:19:00] like making decisions like, or doing things, but then to be so like blatantly obvious in the middle of the day. It's not even sneaky at this point. It's just like, I don't give a fuck.
Zoe: But I think that I would do these things a lot where I would be like, oh, I think I can control it.
Nope, I can't, you know. Oops. Like, it, it's just like a continuous cycle where I'm like, oh, I think I'm hiding this. No, I'm not. I fucked up that time or I fucked up again. They, they know that I'm that fucked. Like everyone knew I was so fucked up. Yeah. From the moment I really started, it was always gonna be a problem.
Yeah. So after the DUI, I made a promise to my parents that I would stop drinking for two weeks and I did. It was like really fucking awful. Yeah. Two weeks. Like I was the only way I made it that two weeks because I fully knew I was just gonna drink again after those two weeks were up. Like that day, uh, that it was like after the two weeks, [00:20:00] I was like, Hey, fuck yes, I get to drink and like I got
Heather: blackout.
Does it feel like a challenge when you're not allowed to drink? Like a fun challenge because like, I couldn't wait two weeks. There's no way I would've gotten alcohol for sure.
Zoe: I was just like, I knew that they were gonna kick me out on the street. Okay. You know, like it was, I didn't have anything like, they're mad, mad.
Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I could have killed myself or someone else. Like that's so fucking unsafe and crazy of me. Yeah. They were like, you have to stop for two weeks. Or like, I knew they were gonna kick me out.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, fuck. So I knew I had to do that for two, whatever, two weeks I could drink again.
And then I did and just continued to be crazy. But no car now. But no car now. I had to, now you're to fucking walk everywhere. Okay. I was gonna say you're living in Sarnia, where are you? And bike and like, get men to pick me up from my house. And this is where like my dad like completely stops like talking to me as well.
Like [00:21:00] Okay. Kind of shuts me out after the DUI. Yeah. Well, and when I started drinking again after the DUI, okay. Like that two weeks, he was like, obviously still gonna help me. But after I started drinking again, he's like, okay, like there's nothing I can fucking do for you.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: Um, shit.
Heather: But was that kind of nice?
Were you kinda like, great. Yeah. Have
Zoe: my back. For sure. I was like, okay, no one fucking cares about me anymore. Fabulous. Mm-hmm. I don't care about myself either. Let's do this. Fabulous.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um,
Heather: oh, Zoe.
Zoe: And then I got like fired from my job there in Sarnia and, 'cause I was drinking on the job obviously. Yeah.
She obviously, um, I thought you were just gonna like, skip over that you Yeah. That you got fired. I'm like, why I got fired. Everything I got, I got fired from everything For being a drunk.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: She called the cops on me because she thought that I was drugged because of how insane I was acting. Mm-hmm. She thought it wasn't alcohol.
She thought I had must have been drugged because I was [00:22:00] just being so fucking crazy. Yeah. Like that's how. Insane. I was like, when I drank, I was a totally different person times a hundred. Like I was an insane devil person. Do
Heather: you think it's like a psychosis? Like I was probably
Zoe: entering psychosis now I'm gonna say
Heather: like alcohol induced psychosis.
You're fucking your brain so much all the time that like, that's not just a blackout. You're like acting crazy.
Zoe: Yeah. I'm acting like a crazy psycho person. So,
Heather: well, even the, even the, the thought process of like, I'm going to work today, not just like a little bit of alcohol in my bottle, it's like I'm fucked up already.
Zoe: Yeah. I just, like, I don't think I could, I didn't wanna be even there a little bit anymore. No. Yeah. Um, after that, I think I was keeping on going for another couple months.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um, after like a couple months without having a job, like nothing to do in Sarnia except for just drink myself to death. I was like, Hey.
[00:23:00] It's 2022 now. Things are open. We gotta get back to the city. Like we gotta move. I have nothing going on for me and Sarnia. Let's go back to my friends in Toronto.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And maybe like going back to the city will help me control my drinking because like, I'll have things to do there. I'll have my friends.
I don't have anything in Sarnia. So like, let's go back to the city. I have my friends there. I won't be getting that fucked up there anymore.
Heather: Right.
Zoe: And I move here and I like try to live here again. And I'm just ending up at the hospital again.
Heather: Did you believe you were gonna be better and more chill?
Zoe: No, I don't think so.
Okay. I think I just like needed something to change. Yeah. I, I couldn't, like, I was literally dying in Sarnia. I wanted to go back to the city. Mm-hmm. That was always my plan. I was gonna stay in Sarnia forever. Yeah. Yeah. So I am like back in the city and keep ending up at the hospital, show up to interviews [00:24:00] drunk.
Can't do anything
Heather: like, yeah,
Zoe: I remember I tried to go out to meet my friends and I couldn't go into the subway 'cause I was falling over. Like I couldn't walk down the stairs. I was falling over and I had to like,
Heather: yeah.
Zoe: I didn't even tell my friends I couldn't meet up with them. I just went home and kept drinking and didn't even tell them I wasn't gonna meet up with them.
Like I literally, I was probably like you, like you couldn't leave your house. At a certain point I couldn't do anything. Mm-hmm. There was nothing I could do. Yeah. And I think that's when I got like really fed up with it and was like, okay. I think, I think the last thing I haven't tried yet is rehab. So I think that's where we gotta go now.
Heather: The strongest of drugs.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: When you're falling over like that. Yeah. This is an interesting thing with. Uh, addiction because you start and you show up to things drunk. You do? Yeah. Or tipsy. And you're good. And like, then everyone starts drinking and you're like, okay, perfect. Yeah. Now no one knows, like, no one I can fit into this, but [00:25:00] it does happen where you just start showing up to things way more drunk than you thought you were going to or wanted to be.
Yeah. And then you're falling over and you're well, because you just can't control it anymore. You can't, you can't control it. And even like, I, like, even like, I would go on dates and I would drink and I'd be like, okay, I'm only gonna drink one glass, and I would drink an entire bottle of wine. Mm-hmm. And I'd be in the Uber and being like, fuck, fuck.
I did it again. I did it again. Yeah. And I, I don't, and I, drinking me is like, you can handle it. Mm-hmm. You're fine. Exactly. Like, you're gonna have time in the Uber to sober up. And I'm like, now I have to walk into this restaurant or bar and be like, hi, how are you? Like, so masking sobriety until like, we get a drink and then I'm like, yeah,
Zoe: I don't, it's like it just takes over you.
Mm-hmm. And you can't control it. And that's what was happening to me.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: So I don't know. Like I'm drunk as fuck. I am like, I think I call my mom and I'm like, Hey, like I can go to rehab. Let's do it. [00:26:00]
Heather: I agree. We should go. When you're having, when you're sober, you're lying in bed in the morning, you wake up and you're sober ish.
Are you having lucid moments where you're like, fuck, I need to go to rehab?
Zoe: No. I don't know what switch happened to me when I was like coming, like moving back to Toronto when I was like, okay, I need to go to rehab. I don't know what happened. Okay. Thank God, like a god moment happened and I like saw that I needed to go to rehab.
Heather: Like, okay. It wasn't fear based. It wasn't like you were throwing up somewhere. It wasn't the hospital. There wasn't a thing. It was just like, okay, I'm done.
Zoe: Well, it was probably just like, fuck. I thought I would move to the city and get a job and have my friends back and like be able to like drink like a normal person.
Like I thought, like Sarnia was my problem. I thought. I needed to come back to the city, but I couldn't do it. I was showing up places drunk, I couldn't get a job. Mm-hmm. I ended up at the hospital again. I couldn't even see my friends. I couldn't do anything. Yeah. So I was like, Hey, fuck, I need to, I tried therapy, I tried everything else.
The only thing I haven't tried is rehab. Let's go. [00:27:00] And I'm drunk as hell, calling my mom, being like, Hey, I wanna go to rehab now. Let's do it, whatever.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: I'm ready. And then I think I like call a rehab and that same day I show up there without, and like, I'm coming, I'm on my way. Yeah. They did not say, yeah, come on.
They were like, uh, no, you have to go to the hospital and detox first, and then you can come.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: I didn't listen to them. I just went straight there. Yeah. And they refused to take me. Obviously. I was like banging on the door. I did you Uber there? Yeah, I, I did. Okay. But then when I got there. I lost my phone somehow.
Heather: Uhhuh,
Zoe: I got there, lost my phone. I had to bang on someone's door by like the rehab, like there was like in a housing complex. I knocked on someone's door hammered as hell and I was like, you guys need to take me home or to a hospital. I don't know [00:28:00] what to do.
Heather: Mm.
Zoe: I don't remember if they drove me home or to a hospital.
I think they drove me to a hospital.
Heather: Just a random person.
Zoe: Yeah. Wow. Drove me to the hospital and then I stayed there for a few hours until like I sobered up a bit, but then like they weren't coming to me and I was just like, yeah. Fucking shaking so hard that I couldn't wait there. I didn't have my phone, I didn't have anything.
Yeah. So I went back home and then my parents are coming 'cause they like, are like, what the fuck is happening? And I think they got into contact with the rehab and they told me that we can go again now that at it's been like a day.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um. And yeah, they just show up and I quickly like put together a bag.
I'm like shaking, throwing up, hung over as hell. Okay, I can't pack a proper bag.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: You know, I'm just throwing shit together and I'm like, Hey, I don't know if this is even gonna last. I don't know how long I'm [00:29:00] gonna be there, but let's just fucking go. I don't need anything. Yeah. I'm going to rehab.
What do I need? Yeah. Nothing. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Um, and I think I just like truly went there because I didn't know what else to do when I went there. I had no idea that I needed to be sober. Like that wasn't even a concept that like really was one that I could handle until a week in there. I was like, okay, so bred, I can't drink like a normal person.
Mm-hmm. And the only way I can live this life is if I don't drink ever again. I was like, that's crazy. It's crazy. That's a crazy concept to come to terms with.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And I definitely didn't. Know that going in there, and I definitely only came to terms with that. Like a weekend.
Heather: You thought you were gonna go to rehab and then be able to I didn't know anything.
Okay, okay, okay. Okay. Yeah. No, I'm not like judging how you felt, but it's like the thought, it, what it seems is like, oh, you're going here to just drink like a normal person or like get better or like fix something, but
Zoe: the
Heather: drinking will still happen.
Zoe: I just like, I didn't know what it was gonna [00:30:00] entail.
Yeah. I think, I think I was just going, yeah. Because I didn't know what else to do.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, and then I, yeah, I came to terms with the fact that I can never drink again and that, like, I learned about what addiction is and what alcoholism is and, um, rehab was fun. Yeah. Um, what was your first day in rehab like?
I just like laid in bed. Because you were hungover? Yeah.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I laid in bed, I watched tv, I slept.
Heather: Oh yeah. You didn't have your phone?
Zoe: I didn't have my phone.
Heather: Whew.
Zoe: No, I went into rehab with no phone. I still didn't know what my phone was. You got like three calls a day, I think. Okay. Um, but I didn't use a call until like one weekend.
'cause I didn't wanna fucking call anybody. Yeah. Who am I gonna call?
Heather: Yeah. That's like everyone at my rehab was like getting visitors and like going out for the day and I'm like, mm, I don't need that. Yeah. I actually don't need the outside world. Like, I need to be alone by myself. Like, why are you [00:31:00] guys going?
Home's weird. Yeah.
Zoe: I just, I, I guess I was just like scared to like talk to anybody. 'cause I was like in disbelief that I even made it to rehab. I guess. I was like, oh my God. Like, yeah, this is a lot. Were you ashamed? I think I, I knew I was doing a good thing. It was just like crazy for me to be like, yeah, I'm in rehab guys.
Heather: You know? Yeah. Everyone's like, good.
Zoe: Yeah. Everyone like, I knew it was a good thing that I was doing. Yeah. But it was just like a lot. So I think I just, I gave myself like a lot of time before I had any phone calls. Mm-hmm. Um,
Heather: did you make friends?
Zoe: I made a friend. I made friends. Yeah. Like after that week, I definitely like loosened up a little bit more and made friends and started to like, understand what it was all about.
Yeah. Me and this girl had crushes on like these brothers that were in [00:32:00] there, so
Heather: I love it that siblings went to rehab together. Yeah. So chaotic, so
Zoe: crazy. So yeah, I've like, liked the sky and he seems like cool. He's been around so he, what does that mean? Like he's been to rehab before. Okay. He a retread. I like felt that I could like, rely on him to like, show me what to do.
Yeah. Which was nice.
Heather: When you go to rehab, you feel like so vulnerable. You feel like a baby. You're wearing sweatpants all day. You feel like, uh, I mean, you kind of feel like, here take it. Yeah. Now I'm just gonna float around in here. And you, you, you really do find guidance from people. Yeah. Like you trauma bond with a lot of people.
Zoe: Yeah. It was really nice. Like, I definitely opened up to my counselor and like, just like, I think just like let everything like go, I think. And just like, I think she really allowed me to just focus on myself [00:33:00] and not like, I also learned like a little bit of boundaries with that one friend in rehab. Like I had to tell her.
Because she was getting jealous. I was talking to this one guy and I'm like, I'm not talking to him like that. Like I had to kind of
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Understand boundaries a little bit in rehab. I just like got a little bit familiar with doing life without alcohol in a controlled space.
Heather: Yeah. Which was really nice.
Yeah. Was there a moment because, okay, 'cause what I know about you and from like your childhood is that like you're really good at making friends, but then you go to high school and now you're drinking, so all friends or whatever social thing you're in, it's all drinking and drugs. Mm-hmm. When you go to rehab, are you like, how am I gonna do this?
Zoe: I mean, I think, um, I was just like so nervous what the people were gonna be like in there. I think. Yeah. Like when I showed up to rehab, I heard someone screaming and like. [00:34:00] In rehab and I was like, oh no. Like what rehab am I in? It also, like I didn't pick like a pretty rehab Like yours. Yeah. I picked like a crappy one in a toco that was like hard hit.
And yet same price and yet, yeah. Mm-hmm. Same price. I mean, 'cause yours wasn't actually legit and mine was. Yeah.
Heather: Well, is yours private? Yeah.
Zoe: Uh, I think
Heather: there is options to like, have funding for it. Funding because I, I, when there is like, when the government is involved, there are like rules, regulations. You cannot Yeah.
Zoe: Have sex with clients there. Like Yeah. Mine wasn't like totally private. Yeah. You could either pay or like get like wait for funding to go there. You had
Heather: a doctor there? Yeah.
Zoe: You had a doctor, A real life doctor. A real life doctor. The whole time?
Heather: Yes. They were walking around or chilling?
Zoe: I, maybe not the whole time, but I remember seeing a doctor there.
Heather: Were there nurses or anything there? Like on staff? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That sounds to me.
Zoe: Yeah. Like I remember like, there was a guy that was severely [00:35:00] um, detoxing. Detoxing and like the co the ambulance had to come and take him because like, it was too much.
Heather: How was your detox?
Zoe: I just like slept forever. Yeah.
And, um, did they give you meds? Like sweat A lot. I, they would always come in and ask me if I wanted medication and I said no every time. 'cause I was just like, I don't,
Heather: you're like, no, I'm sober.
Zoe: I know I'm sober now, guys. Haven't you heard? I actually don't believe in Advil. Yeah. It's not good for my body. I don't think I took anything.
I think I just like, I remember sweating a lot.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um, I remember having nightmares like every, like, I think I had dreams about murdering people for a week every day. Murdering
Heather: people. Who were you murdering?
Zoe: My family, my friends. Okay. Like everyone in rehab, like I was, I was, it was nightmares. It was horrifying.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And everyone in rehab said it was like normal. Um, but yeah, they [00:36:00] happened. That continued for maybe like a week or two. It's
Heather: normal.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: It's horrifying and normal. You were there for a month. I was there for 30 days. Yeah. Yeah. And on your 30th day, how did you feel?
Zoe: I felt excited to like get a phone and text my rehab boyfriend that was out before me.
Yeah. Were you ready to leave? Yes. Mm-hmm. Because like he was out. Okay. So I was like, Hey, I need to like get out too.
Heather: If he wasn't in the picture, would you, you have been ready to leave, do you think you'd be ready to leave or would you be freaked out? But
Zoe: I think I would just, like, I was relying on someone else.
Yeah. I wasn't relying on myself if it wasn't for him. I would rely on a friend, you know, if I didn't have a partner, I would rely on a friend. Yeah. I couldn't rely on myself yet, which means I wasn't actually doing any of like, the real work that I was gonna have to do later.
Heather: Mind you, it's so scary Zoe to like, you go to re I mean, for me, I was terrified, but I'm also terrified of everything.
But you're in like, you're great. Like you're, you're in rehab, you're in your little ecosystem. There is no alcohol or drugs. You can't get [00:37:00] it. Mm-hmm. So there's no way of you even being sneaky. So the sneaky addiction isn't there. I think to go to rehab and be like so secure for 30 days and like, you're good to go and then to leave and you're like, I have to go back into the big open world where there's drugs and alcohol flying around me everywhere.
Like, I don't, I, I only trust myself because I'm here and like I don't have it. So getting back out into the real world, what was that like for you?
Zoe: I think I just was like, Hey, I'm gonna, I, like I, my parents picked me up. We went and got a phone for me. That was the first thing. And then we went to the sushi restaurant.
And ate and they didn't drink the one and only time they didn't drink.
Heather: Were they excited to see you?
Zoe: They didn't know what to say, obviously. Yeah. I didn't know what to tell them either. I'm like, yeah, I guess I'm not drinking ever again. Guys like, yeah, let's just, let's do it. Let's go.
Heather: Wow.
Zoe: Um, I remember my counselor in rehab was like, so your dad's very concerned that he does that.
You [00:38:00] don't understand that you can't drink again. Wow. I'm like, yeah, well, obviously I, I get that. Yeah. He's like, she was like, yeah, like she wants you to know that you can never drink again. I'm like, yeah, I'm in rehab. He
Heather: probably saw something in you though that was Yeah. Or maybe you said something when you were drunk and going to rehab.
Yeah. That was like conducive to like, I'm not gonna stop drinking. Yeah. I'm just gonna handle my drinking better. Maybe you said something like that. Yeah, because that's interesting because that is kind of what you. Yeah, exactly.
Zoe: Well, and then also like my dad like wrote me this letter being like, oh, I stopped talking to you because I just figured that you were gonna die one day and I needed to distance myself before I just found you dead.
Heather: Oh. I just like, make, gave me shivers. I know.
Zoe: And that like, really when my counselor gave me that letter in rehab, that like really made me sad, but also made me, it was nice to know that [00:39:00] that's why he was doing that. Yeah. You know, it made sense. I was like, yeah, of course he had to do that. Like, he had to protect himself first.
Yeah. He was preparing to lose you. Yeah. Um, fuck. Anyways, going into the real world, I was just like, okay, I have my rehab boyfriend, I have my rehab friends and I got this and we got this and everything's gonna be okay.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Yeah. My rehab boyfriend showed me like meetings to go to, um, the city he lived in Otoko.
Okay.
Heather: So,
Zoe: but he would come down, like he would stay with me maybe three, four nights a week. Mm-hmm. I would stay with him. Um, that's nice. That's helpful. But I was probably going to like five meetings a week at the beginning. I That's so crazy. Yeah. It was a lot, but it was something that I could do with him.
Yeah. You know, and it was like, he, he, like, everyone was just telling me that I needed to like, go to [00:40:00] meetings, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's what I was doing and I got a job at that time. So I had to stop going to as many meetings. He got me a, like his sponsor, um, he asked his sponsor who, like if he knows anybody to sponsor me, and then he gave him a recommendation and I texted her and I met up with my sponsor and, oh, that's your sponsor.
He found you? This
Heather: sponsor? Yeah.
Zoe: Oh,
Heather: he did? Oh, cute. That's really helpful and nice. Yeah. He was like really motivated for a sec there. He,
Zoe: well, yeah, he, he was, yeah. He knew what he had to do to be sober.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: And he taught me everything. Yeah. And he laid it all out for me. And he was like, here's your sponsor.
Well, he didn't say, here's your sponsor. Like, I went and meet and met her and I was like, okay, I like you. Let's go. Yeah. Um, and then [00:41:00] when he, honestly, like, I feel like I was born again in rehab, you know, and I just like met this guy and I kind of didn't know if we were fully like, gonna do this thing together, you know?
Yeah. Like, do I like you or am are we just like in rehab together? Yeah. You know, like I, I knew that in the back of my head. Yeah. I wasn't stupid, I wasn't naive about it. Um. And I think that honestly, he may have knew that as well.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Yeah. Like he, he did end up relapsing and I was so early in my sobriety, I think I was what, three months sober at that point, so I didn't stick around.
Heather: Um, did that at all make you wanna drink
Zoe: or
Heather: did that make
Zoe: you negotiate at all in your brain?
Heather: No.
Zoe: Okay. I was like, oh my God, I can't be with him. Yeah. I was like, oh my God, no. Like, that's not happening. I'm not doing that.
Heather: Mm-hmm. Um, I wonder too, because it's like your sober buddy, you, you're trauma bond. If they [00:42:00] relapse, are you like,
Zoe: I'll go to, no, because my friend relapsed first and I was like, Hey, I'm not like, I don't know.
I, I didn't want to Yeah. Relapse. Mm-hmm. No. Like I had made it this far guys, I wasn't gonna relapse.
Heather: That's so good. Were you, um, nervous you were going to, like, when you were leaving rehab, were you like, oh, I'm gonna be sober? Or were you like. I don't know. I mean,
Zoe: I didn't know how I was gonna stay sober.
Yeah. I was like hoping that I was going to, I didn't know how. And then when my, so like I was relying on my rehab boyfriend for everything for three months after I got out of rehab.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: When he relapsed, I really had to lean on my sponsor and do the work. And that's when I really like started applying myself.
Mm-hmm. And working the steps and getting everything done. Yeah. And that's when I really started to like feel confident. Yeah. And I was like, oh shit. Like I don't have to rely on anybody else. Like, I'm good. I got this thing. And it was like nice [00:43:00] to like, have a routine of sobriety. Really. Like go to her house every, I don't even know what, what day I would go.
Maybe on Mondays I would go to her house once a week and then I would go to my meeting every Wednesday. And it was just like a nice little routine I was having in my sobriety. Yeah. I was making like friends at the meetings, but a lot of them were like guys, which is interesting because I probably was still like, wanted like the male attention.
Totally. Because I was still early in sobriety. When you're early in sobriety, you literally so fucking vulnerable. Yeah. It's insane.
Heather: You've kind of like fixed everything a little bit. A little bit or like you've touched on everything a little bit and you're like, I'm good to go. And then you're like, I need him to love me.
Yeah. And I just saw him bash his face into a wall. Why do I need him to love me? But yeah,
Zoe: I, um, so I thought like everything was perfect. I was doing my amends. I was like completing the steps. I was good.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: This is [00:44:00] maybe like a year after being sober. I got my year. I'm feeling good. Um, and now I don't think I need the meetings anymore because I have a year under my belt.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: And I stopped going to meetings. I blame it on like, I'm too busy. Um, this guy I was seeing, he was coming over every Wednesday nights now and making me dinner. Okay. So I was like, oh, I can't go to my meeting because he's making me dinner every Wednesday.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: I just like stopped. Isn't that interesting?
You like, prioritize a guy. Yeah. Over the work. Well, I was like, I did the work. Mm-hmm. I'm a year sober now. I don't need it anymore. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: So stupid. And maybe I didn't believe I didn't need it anymore. I just like felt like maybe I needed a break, but I was just like, I can't do it. I can't do it anymore.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And so I didn't go to a meeting for maybe five months at that, like five month mark. I was being very addict. Okay. I was [00:45:00] being very like. Selfish. Mm-hmm. Everything needed to go my way. I needed to be in control of everything. And, um, just like being like very moody and like up and down.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, and then I was in Sarnia with my friends and I got into a fight with my friend's boyfriend.
Mm-hmm. And I never like, have fights with anybody, you know, I try to like keep it very peaceful in my life now. And that like just really triggered me a lot because it happened in Sarnia too, at the beach I used to get fucked up at.
Heather: Right. You know? Yep.
Zoe: And he was screaming at me and I felt so tiny.
Heather: Mm.
Zoe: And I had to take a step back from that situation.
I was like, I'm going upstairs and I need to get a diet Coke.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Stat stats. Mm-hmm. So I leave him on the beach, he's fucking yelling at me for no reason. And then I go home and I open my parents' s liquor cabinet and. Like, I've opened [00:46:00] that so many times before. Right. So I'm like muscle memory. I don't, yeah.
I don't even think that I went there knowing that I was going to open it. I just did it and I really did contemplate it for a little bit. And then I went and I reached for the Diet Coke instead. And I think when I reached for that, I knew in that moment like, I need to fucking go to a meeting as soon as I get back to the city.
So I went back down there, I calmed his ass down and I, that trip was ruined. Yeah. Because of what happened with him. Mm-hmm. Um, and I just like really was anxious to get back to the city to go back to my meetings. And that happened last summer, so I think it's almost been a year since that happened.
Mm-hmm. And ever since then, I've been going to my meetings. Every single Wednesday. Yeah. If I don't go on a Wednesday, I go on a Saturday. Last week I went to Wednesday and Saturday. Oh. I, um, I think [00:47:00] now I really realize that it's has to be something I do in my life forever. And it's not just like a phase.
Yeah. Like it can't just fix me and then I leave it. Um, it's a continual thing for me and I do really like it. Now I'm in the meetings and I have female friendships and like those are so special.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Like I didn't gravitate to the men this time around. I really gravitated to the woman. And I just, I feel very safe and I feel like I have a purpose when I'm in there too, because like I want to help everybody and be helpful for new people coming in.
Um, and I think now I am so good in my sobriety and. Like, even like way every day. I just like, I feel better because when things happen to me
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Uh, I know what to do. I know I have to like call my sponsor and like do another step four or like just get it out. Yeah. And not ruminate on it because when I ruminate I will [00:48:00] get triggered and potentially relapse again.
You know? Yeah. So I think just having all those tools and the fact that that did happen to me last summer made it so clear to me that if I stop going to the meetings, I will become a crazy person again and that will lead me to drink. Yeah. And I'm just really happy that I didn't drink last summer because that would've been a fucking shit show.
Yes. Um, and yeah, I'm just like really fucking happy where I'm at and I'm so happy for the people that I have in the program. Yeah. And like, just like having that to lean on and I think like that is why I am sober today. For sure.
Heather: Hmm. This is so good, Zoe. Yeah. I'm so proud of you. Yeah, it's so nice. Like when we, um, met with our friend the other day and she's your friend, but she's like now my friend too.
Yeah. And we just like met and it was like we were all just jumping and so excited to see each other and I'm like, this is so cute. World. Like dumb and sober and like thrilled to be together. [00:49:00] Yeah. Ugh.
Zoe: I couldn't have it any other way. Yeah. Like there's so many blessings that come with being sober. Um, it's like insane.
I would've never thought that life could be this good sober. The switch is
Heather: fucking insane. Is there anything now that you wish you didn't have to be sober for? Like are you, is there any like regret or resentment or like, damn, I wish I could drink at that thing, but I can't 'cause I'm not normal.
Zoe: I don't think so.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I think, right. Like now I just get worried about, I don't know, I get worried when things like trigger do trigger me. Yeah. I'm like, fuck, I need to cut that in the butt. You gotta cut in the butt.
Heather: First year to rehab. Mm-hmm. Getting sober. You're good to go. And you've said this too, it's like the first year I find the lead up.
Yeah. To year one. Scared the shit outta me. Yeah. I was like really excited to get it. Yeah. And then when I hit year one, I was like, I [00:50:00] woke up the next, next day. Okay. What now? Yeah. Yeah. I was like, now what? I just did all of that and I'm at a year. Do I keep going? Do I stay? Is this the thing? Mm-hmm. It feels really strange.
You're like leading up to a thing and nothing really happens except you're sober and you're like, I guess, okay. I guess I keep going. And then I think real life starts. Yeah. Like after you hit your year, then you're like, now I'm really in the world. Yeah. I've got a year under my belt. I now I have to navigate relationships.
Yeah. And get triggered and probably fucking start dating again. Yeah. And like, yeah. You know,
Zoe: I know like this whole thing with dating is even like a testament to like my sobriety too. It's like, what can I handle? Like, am I gonna, me caring for someone else is a really big thing for me because I haven't cared about someone else in my whole life.
I didn't love my boyfriends. I loved that they drank with me. Mm-hmm. I didn't care about them. Yeah. Let's be real. I didn't.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, so now [00:51:00] I'm finally caring about someone that's not my friend. Like I would, I always cared about my friends, I think truly. Yeah. Like my friends stuck by me because I was a good, they knew I was a good person.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: In the bottom of my heart, behind that demon who was an alcoholic.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um, but like, I've never cared for a man this way. Yeah. And it's very hard for me for some reason, but. I really do like him, and it's really like, just, it's, it's another learning lesson for me. This chapter of my life is like, okay, how, how am I gonna navigate this?
Yeah. Does it feel,
Heather: does it feel scary to you to, to be vulnerable with him or to, to really care? Like what is the
Zoe: I think it, it is definitely, it makes me scared that like he's gonna leave me or if I like put too much into it, like, what's in it for me? You know?
Heather: Well, that's the thing with [00:52:00] alcohol, right?
It's like I'm controlling my alcohol. Mm-hmm. It's never gonna leave me. Yeah. It doesn't leave me until I say, it leaves me, and like, if you try to take it from me, I will cut you out. I've told my mom that so many times where she's asked like, are you upset or disappointed that I didn't force you into rehab or something like that.
I'm like, girl, I would've cut you out so
Zoe: fast. Yeah. And I think my parents knew that, like, they always brought up like. Taking me to rehab, like went in university.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: And they knew that they couldn't do anything because if they like threatened to do that, I would scream in their face and like, I like held a knife to my arm in front of them.
You know, like I was a crazy person and they were scared of me. I think my parents are still scared of me because they know I can switch at any fucking second. Yeah. Um, it's trauma for them too, you know? Oh. I put them through so much shit. Mm-hmm. Bro. Like, even just like having a knife up to me and [00:53:00] standing in front of my parents Yeah.
Is just like, so I can't imagine And I would like scream at them and blame them for everything. Yeah. Well, you have to. I didn't know. I couldn't blame it on myself. I don't know. I
Heather: mm-hmm.
Zoe: I, I think like at the end of the day. Like if you're an alcoholic, if you're going down that path, yeah. You're gonna hurt people.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: And now I'm like, I made my amends to them obviously, but now it's like showing them that I'm not just gonna relapse when something hurts my feelings. Yeah. You know, like we would get hurt, we wouldn't like a situation and we would go drink about it and then this cycle would continue. Mm-hmm. Which is showing them that like, we're not gonna do that anymore.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: So that they can kind of trust us and believe us again.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: And believe that I'm not going to scream into their face.
Heather: Yeah. It is very scary to like, have a kid that's going through it. 'cause Yeah. The screaming in the face, like, and and at some point, yeah. My parents just stopped [00:54:00] saying anything to me about any issue I was having, eating, drinking, whatever.
Because it was like, yeah, she's gonna fucking blow up. Yeah. And so like, do we want to scream at each other right now or do we wanna just like, I don't know, watch tv?
Zoe: It's literally just like walking on eggshells with a person. And I will
Heather: say this, that. Is a thing that, like my parents have said to me, it's so hard to be around you.
Mm-hmm. We have to walk on eggshells around you all the time. You just exploded nowhere. Yeah. First of all, I'm like, where do you think I learned that? But second of all, like, yeah, I was struggling. Like when you're an addict, I think for me especially, I mean for, I don't just, I just don't wanna speak for everybody, but like, it do, it did feel like it was happening to me.
Happening to me, to me. Yeah. I thought, yeah, I was the victim in all of this. Yeah. Which a little bit you are in a sense, because it's like you're an alcoholic, it's a disease, disease of a sort. You, it hap it doesn't happen to everybody. Some people, you know, Julia can sit here and drink a bottle of wine with me and have a bad night and watch tv, and she's gonna go home and then go to Pilates in the morning.
Oh. I'll be [00:55:00] drinking the rest of her alcohol in the morning. Like, it, it does feel like, why me? I can't stop. Like, why do I have to wake up in the morning and need alcohol before? I do anything at all. Yeah. Like, fuck that. Why is that happening to me? So it does feel in those moments when you're fighting and they're like, stop drinking.
You're like, fuck you. You made me like,
Zoe: yeah, exactly. I didn't want, I didn't ask to be born to be. And then
Heather: it gets crazy. Yeah. And you're like, you two. Yeah.
Zoe: No, like it was, I was a little psychopath. Yeah. And it just like, but like truly, I really do think that the moment I started like I was gonna be psychotic, you know?
Yeah.
Heather: That's a really interesting one. And I wonder how many people are like that. Some of it's genetic. Yeah. Some of it's
Zoe: just like, I, like, it's genetic and I felt like I didn't fit in growing up.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: And then I had to like, go somewhere else where I didn't fit in and it was just like something [00:56:00] that helped me once.
Heather: Yeah. It
Zoe: grounded you And it grounded me once and then I just like fucking kept doing it. Yeah. And then I woke up one day and I couldn't stop it.
Heather: That's how it gets you. Yeah. But it serves you for a while. You needed it like mm-hmm. Needed, whatever. Yeah. But you did. Yeah. You needed what it was doing for you.
You liked it, it was helping you stay grounded. It was helping you stay sta feel stable. Yeah. And then it turned on
Zoe: you. Yeah. And it like, I really, it just like, it was a quick turn.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Everything just happened so quick that I couldn't control it.
Heather: That feeling. Do you get that feeling in your throat that like pain when you, like there's no alcohol in the house and you're like, oh my God, it's almost midnight.
I have to get something and you're like, I don't have any, and it like hurts. I used to get these like, probably 'cause that's where my anxiety is, like my throat would like get closed and I'm like, your throat anxiety girl. Me, my EpiPen, you know, like seriously. Wow. No, it's, it's such a good, how is your relationship with your parents now?
[00:57:00] I mean, it's
Zoe: like better. I. Yeah. We don't, like, we don't talk about everything do you? And I feel like they're still a little bit scared of me. Mm-hmm. But yeah, it's way better than like, even a year ago.
Heather: And, uh, I'm not putting blame on you in your addiction. Mm-hmm. But do you feel like, while, do you feel like you've kind of put an imprint on your family a little bit, where it's like gonna be hard to push it back out?
Like are you, do you think it ruined a relationship in some way?
Zoe: I just think that, like, I didn't have much of a relationship with them in Oakville. Okay. 'cause I, we really didn't like, spend a lot of family time together. I don't remember having a lot of family time. I was so busy with skating. My brother was in hockey.
Mm-hmm. There was so much going on. My parents were working, I don't know. And then in Sarnia, I never had a relationship with them because I resented them. And now I'm like trying to like build a relationship with them finally. Yeah. And it's like, [00:58:00] it's hard because I have. Scarred them. Sure. And I don't know, it's like I, I don't know if I relate on much with them, to be honest.
Yeah. They live in Sarnia. I live in the city. They don't understand the city at all.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, but like, I still love them and I like, like I talk about it with my sponsor a lot 'cause I'm like, oh, like why is my relationship with my family like not so perfect and strong? And she's like, yeah. Like, mine's not either babe.
Like
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: It's not, just because you're sober doesn't mean it's like perfect. Mm-hmm. You know, you have to work on the relationships and it takes time. And if you do wanna work on it. Then you will, then you're, you will work on it, but you can't like force it to be an amazing relationship. Totally.
Heather: Yeah.
Because then it's like adding pressure and we know what happens and we get pressured. Yeah. And when it's family, it's like so close to home and your heart and you're like, ah, I don't wanna feel that kind of pressure, so let's just go with the flow. Yeah. But I mean, it's good and it's kind of beautiful that you [00:59:00] do have the opportunity to like rebuild a friendship with them.
A relationship. Mm-hmm. A family That is nice. You know, it's nice because you were just sick for so many years. Yeah. And now it's like they have Zoe back. Yeah. And you, it's hard, but you're like, yeah, I guess I'm reintegrating into the family again. Yeah. You know?
Zoe: Yeah. Like it's not like I wasn't invited to family things when I was drinking, but like I would always ruin them and they were always like looking out for me.
They're always like looking at how much I was drinking and taking it away from me. And then I would like be sneaking a bottle in the my grandparents' basement. You know, like it was just.
Heather: It
Zoe: was just chaotic.
Heather: Yeah. These people all around us being like, where are you getting that? Literally like you showed up with no bag and somehow you are fucked outta your mind.
Like, how is this happening? I know like it's such a chaotic time. So chaotic. But it like, I'm gonna be three years
Zoe: sober in October, which is absolutely crazy. Well, what did you just
Heather: say to me before? You're like, I'm 16 days away from a thousand days. Yeah. That is the most amount [01:00:00] of time ever, ever is a thousand days.
Three years. No, no, no. I was gonna try and do the math in my head and I, my brain, I can't do it. I heard myself in my head go stops.
Zoe: Absolutely not. But it's like a long time and I just think that the more time I'm sober, the more time I like forget that that was like my life and I think. That's another good reason to go to meetings is like you, there's always someone there that will like spark a memory.
Like, oh yeah, that was fucking me. Like some shit that we
Heather: talk about. Yeah. And like you'll say something and I giggle about it. Yeah. Not because I think it's like nonchalant and funny. I'm like, yeah, I, yeah, there's, there's only one way to handle this. And it's to laugh because I've done that too. Yeah. Like I've, you know, done the dumbest fucking shit.
But I'm really proud of you. And I do, I don't know if I've actually told you this, but I do. I'm gonna get emotional. Aw. Why does that just happen to me? I can't handle this room. We have to move. I really do look up to you in sobriety. Like, I, I think when we first met, and I knew [01:01:00] you were younger than me, I was like, oh fuck, she's younger than me and she's so ahead of me.
And I think that's a big thing for me in life. Like making sure that I am as good or like better than everyone who's like around me. And like, so for the sobriety of it all, I almost felt like. And this is all me, right? Yeah. This is just me as an addict. I'm like, oh, she's not gonna like respect or think I'm cool or anything because like, she's so much more sober than I am.
And like really? Yeah. Not even that much more sober than you. No, but I think like, at the time. Yeah. What, however, however many months I had you, it just was astronomical. Right? How many more you had than me. And I was like, oh, she's gonna think that I'm just like, baby sober and I'm not like, you know, it's like, yeah, give it a year and then see how it goes.
I, I just like felt judgment. Yeah. And that none of it came from you. Yeah. You were like, Hey, how are you? I'm sober too. And I was like, she hates me. Like, there's no reason. But the age thing was hard. A little bit. I mean, you're only four years younger than me, but I was like, how is she, and then I was like, [01:02:00] she got sober so fucking young.
Zoe: Like Yeah. But I know people that got sober younger than me, which is like insane. Like Yes. They got sober at like 2021. Were you 20? I was 23. You were 23? Yeah, I was 28. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I think I was like turning 24 in like a month. So like, technically 24, but I like to say 23.
Heather: I know one of my friends had a birthday in rehab and I, I was already out and I sent her a obnoxiously.
Big damn words. But yeah, I really do look up to you in sobriety and it's really, really fucking nice to like have somebody. Yeah, I
Zoe: think, yeah, I just like, I like talking to people who are sober or trying to get sober and when I met you I was like, oh my God, amazing. Mm-hmm. Like let's do this, let's do everything together for your best and also like you were cool and like talking about like your new profound like sexual experiences and that's exactly what I was going through and I was like, okay, I gravitate towards her.
Yeah. We have some, we don't have, we don't even just have sobriety in common, but we [01:03:00] have like, we wanna. Be cool exploring sexual women as well. We were both
Heather: single. We were both
Zoe: single and having so much fun. So I think. Like, I'm always gonna be there for you. Yeah. Like no matter what, like, and I like want to help you when you're struggling.
Yeah. And I hope that you wanna help me when I'm struggling. Of course I do. Yeah.
Heather: I think about you all the time. I think about you all the time. I was like, how's she doing? Is she okay? And then you call me and you're just at the beach. And I'm like, she's fine. Uh, no. Yeah. I fucking love to have a sober companion.
I don't think, well, do you remember when we, well, it was in January. Yeah. We didn't meet in January. We had already met, but then in January you were like, let's go to the basketball game. And I was like, yes. I was like, okay, it's Jen, it's Jan first we're making a list. And I was like, prioritize friendships.
Have you remember that first two weeks Zoe? I was so tired. And we probably went to like a basketball game and two dinners. Yeah. And like maybe I had a facial that week too, and I was like, I am exhausted. This is too much for me. Yeah. [01:04:00]
Zoe: But now I get there. But now you're like into it, like you have like expanded your capacity for.
Socializing for socializing. Really. Like I know like the first year for you, you, it was very important for you to like stay inside and not have like anything expose you. Yeah. But now I think that you're becoming safe enough to like, go into these environments Yeah. And be, and feel safe because
Heather: mm-hmm.
Zoe: Why would you give up your sobriety? Well, yeah, and that's what you said too. 'cause I was like, are
Heather: you
Zoe: not
Heather: like craving when you're gonna these raves or bars or clubs or whatever you're doing with your friends, like, and they're drinking around you. Mm-hmm. And you were like, well no, that's the point of AA kind of, it's like you can live and exist in the world and do everything you used to do, but sober.
Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, that is, that is true. Yeah. And I'm just sitting in my bed, which is what I was doing when I was drinking. Yeah. So let's,
Zoe: yeah, let's get outside. Let's expand it. I think that, I think like you shouldn't go to a bar just to watch your friends drink. Mm-hmm. If you're. If you [01:05:00] are going to a bar to watch a hockey game or you're going to a club to listen to the music or you like the dj mm-hmm.
That's gonna be at this place. Or you're going for a friend's birthday that you want to like dance with. Yeah. You, there has to be like a genuine reason why you're going somewhere. Yeah. Or else it's just like you're going to this bar because you wanna watch people drink. No, you're gonna drink. Yeah. You know,
Heather: it's also very okay to say like, I'm not going.
Yeah. And in my situation, I'm sure in yours too, if I told my friends, like, I just don't feel up to it. There's gonna be drinking and I don't feel safe today. It's happened before. There was like a party and I was like, you know what? I feel so weird. Yeah. And I just like, don't wanna be around any alcohol today.
Mm-hmm. And that's just me and everyone was super respectful. Yeah. And I feel really good about that decision. Yeah. And like you can say no 'cause even you like, you're fine. Like you, I feel like you're so secure in your sobriety and like you go out and you do things, but like. There could be a day too, where you're just like, you know what?
I don't feel like being around alcohol right now. Yeah. [01:06:00] And it's fine.
Zoe: Well, like if, for example, if that thing that happened to me in my personal life mm-hmm. Two weeks ago, if I was out with my friends and that person was calling me names like that through text.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And I was out at a bar. Oh fuck no.
Like I would have to like have ran home. Mm-hmm. You know, I would have to, like, I had need to go home. You know, I can't be out in certain situations when I'm not a hundred percent. Yeah. But. For the most time now, nowadays I am at a hundred percent.
Heather: Yeah. It's so good. Which is like
Zoe: amazing.
Heather: Yeah. Take care of your addict friends.
Honestly, you don't have any best friends with them, but when people get sober, it's very, it's difficult. Yeah. It's difficult to be sober. We're still addicts. We still have this like weird secret disease.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Don't yell at me because yelling at me. That's what ignites it. Yeah. So just like, and and yes, of course as a sober person, we're not perfect.
We're gonna say things that piss people off. Yeah. You are gonna get in fights, but fucking also watch it. Yeah. Like watch what you [01:07:00] say to me about my character. 'cause it's like,
Zoe: or like if you don't watch it, then like, okay Lynn, I get it. You don't care about me. Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. Like it's cool, it's fine.
I don't need to be friends with everybody. Mm-hmm. Like, I think I'm realizing that now, like it's just like another lesson that I'm realizing I don't need to be friends with any, everybody, just because I've been friends with them forever. Yeah. You know, I really don't need to, yeah. If they're not serving me, if they're not.
If they're making me stressed and anxious, why am I gonna hang out with you?
Heather: Yeah. If I don't like what you said
Zoe: about me, why would I hang out with you?
Heather: Oh, you get to choose your friends.
Zoe: That's what I get to choose my friends. Now, before I you to choose everything. Before I didn't. I didn't have, I couldn't, I literally couldn't do anything.
No. When we were at our Lois lowest rock bottom. Rock bottom, I literally couldn't do anything. I was pissing myself left, right, and center. Oh my God. I couldn't even fucking use the bathroom. Oh, it's
Heather: crazy. Yeah. Whenever you [01:08:00] say that we couldn't do anything, I'm like, yeah, I'm trying to think of the things I could do.
I'm like, I can basically just like walk 50 feet s to the dog park. My scalp was like scabbed because I did, I didn't even know how to wash my hair properly. Okay. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I will say this. Listening to your whole story. Mm-hmm. I think that like you walking to rehab by yourself, um, and then you go to the hospital and then your parents come get you.
I just feel like. That whole thing. Thank fucking God you went when you did. Because the way that it was so chaotic and no one really knew where you were felt, feels to me like you had like a week. I know it. I know. That's so crazy. But it does feel like you were well and like gonna end up under a streetcar.
Zoe: Thank God that I did have the resources to go to this rehab.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, because yeah, if I had to like wait a week, I don't think I would've stayed sober for that week.
Heather: That's the other thing, right? Yeah. It's like you make the call when your gut is like forcing you to make the [01:09:00] call and then you just go, okay, I've already done it.
The money is transferred and we're going. Yeah. Think, yeah. Thinking about it, waiting. Even if I, I had, I got in within two weeks. If I had to wait two months, I'd be like. Girl. Yeah. I think that's a really scary time for people when they have to wait.
Zoe: Yeah. Because then you're, I think
Heather: so too. You're deciding whether you really wanna stop.
You're sh you're sh you're feeling shame. You're trying to stop. You're not, you don't have any tools. You're scared to go to rehab. Like, it's fucking scary.
Zoe: I didn't even have time to be scared. I was just like, Kay, fuck. I ended up here. Yeah.
Heather: I
Zoe: made it Jesus
Heather: Christ forever. A, I have a picture of myself going to rehab.
Yeah. Like I have a picture of myself in my downstairs at my old place, the mirror for the elevator, and I was wearing all my giant clothes. Yeah. And I had like three bags with me and my hair was in a bun, going to rehab. Oh my
Zoe: God.
Heather: God. It's
Zoe: crazy.
Heather: I think I took a picture of myself like this. Here I go, but wish me luck.
But I am really proud of you and I am really grateful that you told that whole story and there's, I've learned so much. It's really wild. I just wanna like go home and like hug baby [01:10:00] Zoe and like take her back to Oakville and stay. Stay here. Stay
Zoe: here. No, but like I said, like I think if I stayed in Oakville, I know my friend in Oakville started drinking in high school and I know that I would've just like, yeah.
Made a different excuse for it and just like kept drinking there and overdid it as well. I it the same thing I really do believe would've happened no matter what.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I don't blame my parents for go moving me to like, it's not, I didn't start drinking because like that was just my one circumstance. If I would've stayed in Oakville, I'm sure the same thing would've happened.
Heather: Nature,
Zoe: nurture
Heather: it really like it's not always one, it's not always the other. Yeah. It probably would've got you. And I think so. Yeah. And some kids get moved to different cities. Yeah. And start over in ninth grade and, and don't become an addict. Yeah. So it doesn't really matter. It's like however you feel the trauma or however, however it affects you.
Mm-hmm. That turns you into an addict. It's all different. Yeah. You [01:11:00] know? So interesting. No,
Zoe: I
Heather: was just
Zoe: like born to be a little monster. I know. I still feel like you are a bit of a monster in like a cute way. I'm a cute monster now. Monster. Like, either way I know I would've drank and loved it 'cause like Totally.
That's just what happened. Like I, and I loved that feeling. That's why started drinking so much is because I loved that feeling. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah. Do you recreate that feeling at all? Or what's, do you love a feeling? Is there a feeling you love to have? Is
Zoe: it sobriety? I guess now? Yeah. Or like, just like, I love going to bed when like, I love myself, you know?
Heather: I love to wake up. I love to do skin. Yeah.
Zoe: Mm. I just like love to. Do these things, knowing that I can do them and like having that confidence in myself is just like, un you can't it.
Heather: There's so much, can't beat it. There's so much fucking freedom and sobriety that we thought we were getting when we were drinking.
Yeah. But it was just a prison of our own [01:12:00] doing in our own mind. Like now this is freedom. Now I can just run around the world. Now I
Zoe: can just run around the
Heather: world naked, just plant. You hate that to move it outta the way there was the pride bike ride. Did you see any of those naked? No, I didn't. Did you? No.
But I think about them all the time. Yeah. I think about naked assholes on the bike seat. We do a, here in Toronto, we do a naked, naked bike getting naked bike marathon for pride. Yeah. I, um, to support Nudists. I think. I haven't done that. I haven't done any pride shit, by the way. Oh. What have you done this month to feel proud?
I went to Barry's with my gay friend Brandon. That counts. And he said Happy pride. And I said Happy pride. Happy pride to you too. And to all of you, happy pride. Happy pride babe. And if you haven't tried it, how do you know you don't like it? Try it once. This is, Anne told me, try that was best. Anne told me that I have to stop looking at the camera and like going like that.
She's like, it's not necessary. No. That's
Zoe: how I yelled at my boyfriend last week. I was like, do you understand now? Do you understand what I'm saying? [01:13:00]
Heather: Do
Zoe: you get
Heather: it? Yeah. That's how I talk to people about politics. I'm like,
Zoe: so
Heather: what you're saying? Yes, if I'm correct? Mm-hmm. And that's on that. Okay. Well Zoe, thank you so much for sharing your story.
I love you so much. I hope that wasn't too chaotic, guys like it was a lot. But you know, we talked about this last week a little bit after my episode. Mm-hmm. And you were like, yeah, bitch, of course it's gonna be chaotic. You were drunk the whole time. Or I was like, I couldn't remember the timeline. And you were like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You were unconscious during the timeline. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. But I think, I think we, I think we figured out a nice timeline. I think we got it right in the bag. Okay. Okay. Love you. Love you. Proud of you. Of you. Bye
drunk. Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Undrunk podcast. And or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com.
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