#18: The Post-Rehab Surge
Heather and Zoe are back, gabbing away about everything from boxing fight nights (and why they found them weirdly hot) to sex therapy wins, post-rehab overconfidence, and Toronto's crack-smoking mayor. They cover a lot in this one—addiction, accountability, intimacy in sobriety—and why staying humble matters, even when you're feeling your post-rehab surge.
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The Post-Rehab Surge: Transcript
Heather: [00:00:00] This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening. Oh, your hair's a little staticky. Yeah, I'd imagine. I'd imagine with all the fucking stress going on. One second. Everybody. Everybody.
Zoe: Hold on. She just needs to fix her hair. She was looking a little bit staticky.
Yeah, it wasn't looking good. I wonder if that's what happens to her when she's stressed. Her hair just goes, whoosh. Gets away from her. And you know, we still love her. We're not judging anybody here.
I told my boyfriend to put sunscreen on my back last weekend. Mm-hmm. And I was like, don't put like too much on, [00:01:00] because you know, like guys like just lather a bunch of sunscreen on you. Yeah. And so he put like the tiniest amount on. I was like, you gotta put more than that though. And then I had, I got burnt last week.
Not that bad, but I could see like little streaks of his fingers, like just trying to barely put it on my God. Well, I think it was actually cute of him because I said, don't put too much on. Mm-hmm. So he was like probably stressed and then put like the tiniest amount on, but that's not what I meant. Yeah.
So maybe it was just bad communication on my end, but it was adorable. And now he knows that like, you need to put more than like a teaspoon of sunscreen on my back.
Heather: Like crashing on a little bit. I have a sunburn. I, um, we went to Zoe's pool this morning. We did, we went to the pool. Nice. But it was hot.
It's like in the middle of all of these other hot, hot, shiny buildings. And that felt, that might
Zoe: have something to do with the heat, but also the UV was just at nine today too high. I never checked the uv. Oh, the UV is my stock market. You know that, you know that TikTok of [00:02:00] like No, the girls checking the UV graph, like how it goes up and down.
Oh. And there's like. A TikTok that says like, this is a girl's stock market.
Heather: Oh, I think, and that's
Zoe: truly mine. I look at it every single day. I
Heather: think my natural cycles is my stock market. Mm. Like my aura ring. Yeah, your A ring. Because I do check that all the time. Well, that's good that you check it
Zoe: every day.
Heather: When I was like deep into an eating disorder, my FitnessPal. Mm. That was my stock market. Mm. That was
Zoe: crazy.
Heather: The FitnessPal, did you ever use that? I've never
Zoe: used it. I mean, I look at my steps. I don't look at my steps often though. I check them like maybe twice a week. Um,
Heather: yeah,
Zoe: it always does make me feel good when I look.
And I do like more than 10,000 though. So Do you usually
Heather: hit 10,000, like the amount that you walk?
Zoe: I'd say I am usually hitting 10,000. Yeah.
Heather: Wow. That's great.
Zoe: Uh, like probably four days out of the week I'm hitting more than 10.
Heather: That's good.
Zoe: Yeah. Are you really hot right
Heather: now?
Zoe: No. Do you need a strip?
Heather: No. I, I, I was gonna wear a tank top, but I was like, I'm so embarrassed.
You're too embarrassed. Yeah. I feel like I'm just like, I'm radiating, but I [00:03:00] turned the, the, the air is on. Yeah. 18. We're gonna drink that whole water bottle today.
Zoe: I think you probably are just dehydrated too. Yeah. You weren't drinking a lot of water at the pool. We were drinking a lot of curious elixir at the pool and a lot of ginger ale at the pool.
I just like love to just. Do nothing at the pool. Yeah. Heather is a child at heart. She really loves the water. I love to swim. I love to swim. I love to go upside down. She was showing us all her tricks. She was playing mermaids in the pool.
Heather: It was, it's fun. Yeah, it's nice in there. I like it in there. I really do feel lighter.
Yeah. Well,
Zoe: besides what just happened? Yeah.
Heather: Oh, okay. Hi everyone. Welcome back to Girl Undrunk. Hi guys. We are fresh off our stories. Yeah. Our last four episodes.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: So we're
Zoe: back. We're
Heather: back. Yeah. We
Zoe: haven't recorded for what, two weeks? I think just one. Just one. We missed one week last week. Yeah. So it's been, yeah.
Two weeks. Yeah. Since we've done one. I feel it. Yeah. I
Heather: really
Zoe: feel it.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I like recording [00:04:00] every week. I do too. Yeah. It was nice to have a break. Yeah. But I do like when we're in like the swing of things. Yeah. And just like have a schedule. Yeah. It feels good. How are you? How are you? I'm actually good. I was thinking yesterday of the mental health check-in, 'cause the last two mental health check-ins, we were both not great.
Mm-hmm. I think we gave like fours or fives. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. But I'm feeling really good. I love the summer so much. Yeah. I had the best weekend last weekend. Had the Best morning with you and Best Night with You last night? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That was fun. And yeah, I feel like I'm like an eight.
Oh, that's great. I feel like there's still some things I'm battling with, but honestly everything has been working out in its own ways and I'm really. Happy and content with life right now. That's good. Anything can come my way and I'll just BBBB, B. Pop it out. 'cause I'm a boxer now, guys. 1, 2, [00:05:00] 3, 4, 5, 6. Yep.
Exactly.
Heather: Um, how are you? I don't know. I think I'm like, just, I think I, I'm really drained a little bit. Mm-hmm. I think my social battery's a bit drained. Yeah. It's been a
Zoe: lot for you.
Heather: It's been a lot the past. You've
Zoe: spent basically the past 24 hours together.
Heather: Yeah. And then before that I was with other people, like it's just too much.
Yeah. But no, it was good. It's good the summer. I like it. I like to get out there. I like on the, on my way home from brunch, I like ran into a person I haven't seen in a while. Mm-hmm. And then we had like a really manic conversation and then yeah, like went home like, okay, now we have to go to. Dinner and boxing.
Zoe and I went to a fight. We went to fight night
Zoe: last day day we had Don't Fight Night. It was so cool. It was our first time that we went to something like that. Mm-hmm. Like you don't even really watch UFC or boxing ever.
Heather: No, I don't like, I don't like violence. I don't like punching. I don't like being punched in the head.
I don't, when I watch I'll, I feel this way about soccer. Mm-hmm. Foot football. I feel this way that I'm afraid they're gonna [00:06:00] kick a shin and I'm gonna watch a shin split in half.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And I just am worried about that. And I don't like to watch people get hit in the face. I feel bad.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I feel sad. Like it's like very vulnerable to get like, 'cause it hurts to be punched in the face.
Have you ever gotten punched in the face? Oh, well Karen and I used to like punch each other all the time or like hit each other. Yeah. But as like an adult? No, no, no, no, no. I definitely have gotten punched in the
Zoe: face in high school.
Heather: I've been like elbowed and kicked in the face. Yeah. Like dancing. But not ever with like.
Like an intent to punch.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. You have? Yeah. Who's punched you in the face in high school at a party. I ended up pucking up with this girl's boyfriend and then she punched me in the face.
Heather: Did you, did you know that he was with somebody?
Zoe: I don't. I probably, mm-hmm. To be honest, yeah. It was high school.
I was blackout Did, I don't remember like hooking up with him. I remember like getting punched in the face and then [00:07:00] leaving.
Heather: Did
Zoe: you cry? I didn't punch her back. I just like, was like, I get it.
Heather: Yeah. I think that's fair. I think I get it. That's, but I'll go home now. If someone punches you in the face, they're probably expecting you to punch back.
But also
Zoe: that's the, I don't know. I feel like if that happened now, the girl would punch the boy in the face like, why did the girl have to punch me? You know what I mean? Yeah. Like I feel like back like 10 plus years ago, the girls were like always like mad at the girl. Yeah. The girls were mad at the girls always for hooking up with the boy.
Yeah. But I feel like now girls are more like on the girl's side where it's like, oh, I don't know. I don't care if you did it. You're single. I'm gonna punch my boyfriend 'cause what the fuck is he doing?
Heather: Yeah. But you also like, don't owe this like strange girl anything. And I think it's like women are such people pleasers.
Mm-hmm. That I feel like we are like, okay, yeah, you cheated on me, but like, I still want you to love me. Love me, so I'm not gonna Yeah.
Zoe: Especially when you're in high school. Yeah. Like that's all you really care about. Yeah.
Heather: Well, but even like watching [00:08:00] Vanderpump and the Scandal all mm-hmm. The girl, I was talking to my sister about this the other day, the, when Rachel hooked up with Tom Sandoval at the reunion, the, all the girls and the guys were like screaming at Rachel.
Mm. Because like Rachel. Yeah. Why are they taking
Zoe: it out on the girl?
Heather: Well, 'cause like Rachel and Ariana were like best friends, quote unquote. And then Rachel hooked up with was hooking up for months with Ariana's boyfriend, well long term partner. But it was like. It was a pile on. Yeah. I was like, holy shit.
Yeah. Okay. She shouldn't have done that, but like, but it's more on
Zoe: the guy. I think so too. It should be more on the guy because like what? Yeah, sure. That's her best friend. That's shit that she did that. Yeah. But again, she was single. He was the one in the relationship. Yeah. He's the one that did more wrong than her.
Yeah. If we're looking at it that way.
Heather: Yeah. But I, I, yeah, we, we really do a thing like women are villainized much, much more. Yeah. Much
Zoe: more in all, in all
Heather: aspects of life. And men maybe. Yeah. Villainized and also men get away [00:09:00] with way more. Yeah. Like Allah, Diddy, you know? Yeah. Like, it's, it's a really weird thing when you put things in perspective like that.
You're like, oh, on a ma on a micro level, like she's mad at her for sleeping with her boyfriend on a macro level. Diddy's done all this shit, and he gets a, he gets like two years in prison and you're like, oh, everyone's fighting the wrong thing. He's
Zoe: so mad. It makes me mad too. So our trainer, Rachel, Rachel had a fight last night and we went,
Heather: it was amazing.
I didn't realize that. Well, AI didn't know anything what we were about to see. We like,
Zoe: I didn't know what we were gonna walk into either. Is that where the
Heather: vintage stuff is?
Zoe: Yeah, they do markets there. It was at Parkdale Hall.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, it's so nice. It's like there's just like a big hall and it was set up like with this
Heather: big boxing ring.
Yeah. There was a lot of people there. There was a lot of people. I really assumed that it was all gonna be women fighting. I, I had no idea. Same. And it was like 21 fights and 20 of them were men.
Zoe: Yeah. I think we got there like halfway through. The [00:10:00] fights We got there at eight. It started at five, which is crazy.
Oh, did to be there all day. Yeah, it started at five.
Heather: Whew.
Zoe: Um, so yeah, I think we got in when it was like halftime.
Heather: We left at 11.
Zoe: Yeah, we left at 11. Yeah. I think that, yeah. We must have watched at least 10 guys fight.
Heather: Yeah. At least. And some of it at the beginning I was like, this is crazy. And I'm like covering my eyes.
Yeah. I really don't wanna watch people get punched in the face. And then you got slowly into it. Well then I got slowly like turned on by it. Yeah. I was like, this is. Bit erotic. And the most erotic part was like, uh, when they would break. Yeah. And the coaches would like just like be coaching them from the sides.
Yeah. And I was like, oh my. It's
Zoe: like the men helping other men that turn us on, you know? Yeah. Like when men are there for each other and they're like supportive, supporting each other. I didn't
Heather: wanna like be in that situation. Yeah. But it was like turning me on to watch it. Mind you, I don't want that kind of aggression anywhere near me.
So I'm like, please stay with it. It did make me wanna watch South Paw again. I really do love that movie. You wanted something weird? What? When I left your house today and I got in the Uber. Yeah. [00:11:00] The guy was very chatty. Ga Oh was he? And he was saying how like he's starting to run again. I'm like, everybody in my life is running.
What is going on? And he's like, yeah, I'm trying to get fit again. 'cause I got a, I got a fight coming up and I was like, interesting. And I was like, oh, what do you do boxing? And he was like, Moay Hai. And I was like, I don't know what that is, but Okay. And he was like telling y'all about it. And like telling me the techniques and Yeah.
All of this stuff. Talking about, did you tell him that you're a boxer? Well, I said I, I do boxing in the park. Yeah. For recreation.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Um, but he was like telling me all this stuff and how, like the techniques of things and how you hit someone in the head and sometimes you come on the, I'm sitting in this car with this stranger and I was like, oh my God, you could really kill me.
Zoe: Yeah. But I feel that way with anytime I'm in a car with a man,
Heather: I, I do too. But in this case, I don't have any way of getting out. Mm-hmm. Like other men, if you're just a regular person, there's a world in which I can fight you. This person would rip
Zoe: Yeah. Me in half like that. So I [00:12:00] think for UFC fights, usually they have a Muay Thai background or a boxing background.
Heather: Okay.
Zoe: Um, and then like you can do both at UFC. Oh yeah. So it's UFC is not a. Style. No. UFC is everything. UFC is punching Muay Hai kickboxing, I think. Yeah. Ki You can also have a kickboxing background if you're a UFC fighter. Oh, I love how we're like a sports podcast now.
Heather: Yeah. Welcome back to the sports podcast.
I know
Zoe: a
Heather: little bit.
Zoe: Um, but yeah, you've never watched a fight at all, like you didn't really watch UFC or anything growing up?
Heather: No. I've like been around. All my friend's husband and his friends are watching a
Zoe: fight. Yeah.
Heather: I feel like my
Zoe: brother likes to watch UFC every Saturday. Mm. Yeah. And my ex was into it a bit, so yeah, I would pay attention way more.
My dad was just watching golf all the time. Well, did he watch anything else?
Heather: Yeah, yeah. Basketball. Yeah, soccer. Yeah. My grandpa would watch baseball. My grandpa would watch [00:13:00] curling. Yeah. I would go up to his room and he was always watching curling and I'm like. Who is this? This is like the least sport. No, my dad literally
Zoe: watches every single sport, including curling, including tennis, including golf, like literally all of them.
Heather: I like watching people watch tennis. It's so embarrassing. Yeah, like you really just have to do your eyes. Do you have the
Zoe: rackets?
Heather: I have pickleball rackets. Right. That's what it is. But it was really cool. Yeah. And it was really cool to see Rachel fighting after all of these men. Yeah. It was so sick. So Rachel was the main event.
Yeah. Yeah. They were the main event. Two Two women fighting each other. Yeah. And it was intense. There was no blood there, but there was blood with the men. Yeah. Also, I will say few notes that we pointed out last night. Yeah. The men do a lot of hugging. Yeah.
Zoe: Which, well, they do like hugging while they're like breaking breathing.
Yeah. They like take a break and they're hugging. Yeah. The women didn't do that. The women don't need no breaks. There was
Heather: zero hugging going on. Yeah. Because every time they do the bear hug, then the ref is like strong stall hugging. Yeah. You clack. Clack. And [00:14:00] then they have to take a break and they breathe and they get water squirted into their own mouse, which is so hot.
Yeah. But the girls were like, that's fine. Yeah. And then the women, and then after they fought Yeah. Our, our coach won, by the way. Yeah. Uh, shout out Rachel. Rachel. And like I was blushing. Yeah,
Zoe: I know. We're in love with our trailer baby.
Heather: Yeah. She was so hot. She was like running around the place like, like practicing warming up and like, uh, her hair looked so hot.
Yeah. And she's just so pretty perfect
Zoe: skin. Yeah. And she could, she just so confident and she could like,
Heather: punch me through a wall, which
Zoe: I do like.
Heather: I like that too.
Zoe: Yeah. I did like seeing how some of the guys had the cauliflower ear yesterday. Like, I don't know why that turns me on.
Heather: Is that just from, that's from being punch, punch punched.
Yeah. And you can't really fix that, right? I don't think so. You have to get someone else's ears Ear donation. An ear donation. An ear donation. I think you can fix it a bit, [00:15:00] but not really. Do you remember that one time they had a mouse grow a human ear on its back or they took a human ear and put it on the mouses back and fused it and see if, to see if it could survive?
Absolutely not. I definitely did not hear that one. Okay. That was like, before TikTok existed, it was like rumors and did it work? It was just like me on Google being like, what's up in the science world today? I don't really remember. I didn't follow up. Um, and then at the end when, when they were announcing the winner, the mc came out and he was just a man and he all, I mean, the whole time he's announcing the, the male winners is just like blue but red.
But yeah. And then with the women, he comes up and he goes, that was hot.
Zoe: Yeah. Wasn't that a great job? Wasn't that hot guys? Wasn't, wasn't that
Heather: hot.
Zoe: I told you guys to stick around. I was like, why did you just have to say that? And ruined the whole thing? I
Heather: literally, I was like, that is so misogynist and so belittling.
Yeah. I'm like, they just beat the fuck out of each other literally, and couldn't beat [00:16:00] any of the men that came before them. Yeah. And you just like reduce them to being hot. Hot. Yeah. Alice. It's crazy.
Zoe: Yeah. I did not love that. I didn't love it either. Rachel clocked it too. Yeah, we texted her about it. We texted her.
Um, we said, love that. Here's the tea. Yeah, yeah. Just like get it, get it. Right. Like I get it. He's old. He fucking probably doesn't know shit. But, but you had, that's not an excuse.
Heather: You had like 20 fights to practice. Yeah. And then the last second you're like, sexy, sexy girls. Literally like, you just ruined the whole thing.
Why? This isn't even a vibe. Why Yeah. Ruined it for me. And there was a man that was in front of me and Zoe who kept turning around to like, well, because I think like Heather
Zoe: and I like the commentary that we were saying. That whole time was hilarious. Do you think they could hear us? I don't know if they could or not.
I'm gonna say they must have like heard a couple things. I think that's why they were turning around because our commentary was very funny. That like [00:17:00] sexual in nature at
Heather: times. Of course. And like. But I also feel like we were commenting on the boxing, on the boxer's bodies, maybe. Well, and some of you wear your shorts weird.
Yeah, they're too high up. I had sex therapy. I went to sex therapy guys. Yes. Zoe's godmother. Yes. So this was easy for me a little bit because A, I talk about sex all the time, and I really have no qualms with it. It's not like a nervous thing for me. B Zoe's Godmother is a sex therapist, and I was, I've been having this issue with sex where I'm getting really nauseous and I'm getting anxiety.
And except I did have a panic attack the other night and I put ice packs under my armpits. Mm. And it helped a lot. Was that
Zoe: panic attack one of the ones that happened when you wake up in the middle of the night and have a panic attack? Yes. But it was
Heather: like when I went to bed, like it wasn't, you wanna sleep in the middle of the night.
Yeah. So it was, you know, while I was still functioning. Yeah. Very strange. Mm-hmm. But Karen told me to do that. My sister with the, where did she get [00:18:00] that from? One
Zoe: of her therapists maybe. TikTok,
Heather: I think. Oh yeah. Love that. So I tried it and it helped, and then I had to do it a few more times. 'cause I was just like having multiple panic attacks that night.
Yeah. But so that's good to know mm-hmm. That I can do that. 'cause I think also my body thinks that when it's anxious, it's getting ready to throw up. Right. Because that's what I do do.
Zoe: Yeah. You try to stop that.
Heather: Yeah. And so maybe I don't need to throw up. Yeah. I just need to calm the anxiety a hundred percent.
But it's really hard when your body like wants to Yeah. Like it knows what to do. It's
Zoe: used to just like getting really anxious Yeah. And throwing up because, but now you have to get anxious and not, and try to calm yourself down without throwing up. Kind of like the same way of like getting nauseous and then drinking.
Mm. You had to stop that. Yeah. And now you're having to deal with it again.
Heather: Yeah. It's, and I, I also wonder too, I'm like, I think about it sometimes, like, I wonder if sex would be easier if I was drinking. Not that I'm gonna do that. Yeah. But I just am. I wonder like, would that be. Would that like bring me down a all I think you wouldn't
Zoe: be in your [00:19:00] body again.
Like
Heather: Yeah, but then I probably wouldn't be nauseous 'cause I would just be like numb. Yeah. 'cause you'd just
Zoe: be numb. Yeah. And then you wouldn't actually enjoy sex. Yeah, because like, I don't know, like I guess if you have two to three drinks you can still enjoy having sex. But like I don't think I was enjoying having sex when I was like 10 drinks in.
No, I don't think I could feel it really. And then like I love feeling all these things out. I was at the nude beach with my boyfriend. Yeah. With my shirt off and he was just touching my nipples and I was like, this is the best day ever. It's so cool. Were there a lot of people there? There was like a few, yeah.
Was it mostly men? Mostly men had their Dix. So was it the gay beach? It was the gay beach. Okay. There was a couple street couples around us. Couple rais. Couple rais. Okay.
Heather: Yeah. 'cause I feel like it's mostly
Zoe: men over there. I saw most men's penises.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Not I saw one girl vagina.
Heather: Oh.
Zoe: Did you keep your bottoms on?
I kept my bottoms on at the beach.
Heather: It's sandy.
Zoe: It's [00:20:00] sandy, honestly. Like maybe if I was. In Sarnia or somewhere like, yeah, more clean than Toronto Island. Maybe I would take my bottoms off. Like I didn't go in the water. Oh, you didn't? No, absolutely not. Okay. Okay. Do people go in the
Heather: water?
Zoe: Yeah. It's scary.
Heather: It's the thing if a fish sws up, a fish swims up inside you in Lake Ontario, you're
Zoe: absolutely not. I, it's just, I never, my parents were always like, don't swim in Lake Ontario. Don't swim in Lake Ontario. What's the like growing up? And I was like, okay, I'm never gonna do that. And now that I live here, some people swim in the water.
But I'm like, I would never,
Heather: no, there's dead bodies in there. I went to sex therapy and I was telling Zoe, I'm like, God, I dunno what I'm gonna do. Like I just don't feel good when I'm having sex. It's just too much.
Zoe: Well, this has been like probably, what, a year? A half a year at least. No,
Heather: last summer, remember?
Yeah. Last summer it started getting nauseous. Yeah. Yeah. And so I just kind of thought it was a phase. I thought it was maybe my body catching up with like sobriety and all that, but it's just not getting better. Mm-hmm. And I'm like [00:21:00] panicking even before. And you're making out. Yeah.
Zoe: And like the anticipation of having sex is freaking you out.
'cause like, you know, it's coming. Yeah.
Heather: And I also kind of feel like we have to have sex every time because I'm, that's what I'm people do. Yeah. Yeah. And 'cause I can't do it. Yeah. I'm like, just gonna keep trying. Yeah. But it's like not good for him. We've gotten into like a weird conversation about it where he's like, I feel weird about you stopping and starting and then being anxious and crying and then throwing up, wanting to have sex again.
And I'm like, fuck, I'm just trying to figure it out. Yeah. So Zoe was like, oh, here, text my godmother. And so that was really easy. Yeah. All that to say like, I didn't have to go searching. But yeah, she texted me and then within two weeks we were on a Zoom talking about sex and it was amazing. Mm-hmm.
Because she just was like, hi, how are you? Tell me what kind of sex you're having. And I'm like. Perfect. Yeah. Like so immediate, so easy. Mm-hmm. Do you talk to her about sex?
Zoe: Yeah. Well she's the one that dropped me off at that guy's house in [00:22:00] high school. Mm-hmm. And she was like, remember that blowjob are sex Zoe?
And I was like, good note. That's a good note. Walked out of the car and then gave him a blowjob. Oh. And then had sex with him.
Heather: You're like, that felt like the green light. Yeah. That felt like, you want me to do this? Okay. I like that. Um, that's a good note too. 'cause I remember like growing up in this like rhetoric around like L-G-B-T-Q and being like, well, it's not really sex, like for like women. Yeah. It's, it's not sex because there's no penis.
And I'm like, is everybody okay? Yeah. Like I, as a child, mind you, I was watching lesbian porn at a very young age and like, that looks like sex to me. Yeah. But I'm like, it's just intimacy and like blow jobs are sex fingering is sex like, yeah. You know, it's all sex. It's all sex. Sex. It's all sex. Some of it feels more vulnerable, some of it is more vulnerable.
Well, it's just like
Zoe: it's penetration or not penetration.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. But it's all sex. It's all sex. Um, and in, in that case, but no, like we love
Zoe: sex and we love talking about [00:23:00] sex. And I think like, I do like my godmother because it is very like easy and open with her. And whenever like I do have a problem, I know I can go to her.
Yeah. I even talked to her about that thing that's happening with my family. Mm-hmm. And she was very supportive in that and has my back, which was nice to hear. Yeah. She's like, do you want me to fight anyone? Yeah. I feel like the fighting is just like, I can't not relate it to the boxing of it all.
Heather: I know.
I know.
Zoe: Just wanna
Heather: give him a old one
Zoe: too. Yeah. I need to give her a whole a 1 2 3 0, 2 1 6 3.
Heather: But she was saying like, okay, so the nausea, what it probably is, is I've made a disassociation between sex and nausea. So now I believe, and my body believes that it's a person who gets sick when they have sex. Mm-hmm. So that's just like what my body wants to do. Mm-hmm. And it's like these like triggers, like I start to get really hot and then I'm like, oh, it's over for me.
Mm-hmm. She [00:24:00] was saying that is like when you're dissociating, so like literally like on that full house episode where Michelle Tanner falls off the horse and then Mary Kate and Ashley are both in the episode for the first time, and then it's like, she like leaves her body and then it's both of them.
She's like, that's what you're doing. Right. And that's actually really nauseating. 'cause it's like taking your brain in your eyes and it's blurring things. Right. I'm like, okay, that makes a little more sense. Interesting. And I'm doing that as like a trauma response or an anxiety response, like I'm trying to leave my body.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Probably because of all the like. Shit you have towards sex? Yeah. Yeah. Like all the, all the promiscuous and like dangerous sex. And in terms of like dangerous sex, I mean like not safe for my body. Yeah. Not caring about my body. You weren't doing it for yourself? No. You were doing
Zoe: it for the men Yeah.
At that point. And now that you're, you're doing it for yourself or trying to Yeah. It's like your body doesn't know how to like react to that. No,
Heather: because yeah. It's, it's almost like it's [00:25:00] confused as to why I am like so in it or like it. Mm-hmm. But like what you were saying before, when it's like with drinking, you didn't even really feel sex.
Mm. Mm-hmm. I feel like that's what
Zoe: my body's
Heather: trying to do. Yeah. It's
Zoe: go trying to dissociate again. Yeah. 'cause it's used to that. Yeah.
Heather: But it can't because there's like no alcohol, but it's like trying. Mm-hmm. So what your godmother was saying to me is that I could say what my sex therapist is saying to me mm-hmm.
Is that I need to keep myself in the room. Mm-hmm. So I'm gonna try to stay as present as possible and like. She was like, so a scented candle, like a really strong scented candle. Something that I like. She's like, you can put a mint in your mouth. Mint in his mouth. Sexy. Sexy. Maybe some pop rocks. She also told me like, there are things that I can do with, I mean, all of that was like the scent and all of that stuff, but she's like, also, she's like, do you like BDSM?
And I was like, listen, this is a new relat. Yeah. We're not, you know, stabbing each other [00:26:00] yet. We're not slapping.
Zoe: And also you don't know if you, if you do like that. I also
Heather: don't know if I like it. Yeah. I don't know what I like. Yeah. But I, I do like the scratching. Mm-hmm. And I feel like that's helpful. And then she also said that I need to reaffirm to my body or like reteach my body that it's safe having sex and that it's comfy and it's a good thing.
So she's like, we're just gonna start from the beginning. So she's like, do some mutual masturbation. Mm-hmm. So like, lie next to each other, no touching. She's like, you can watch porn or you can just like talk or what, or be silent or whatever is like, comfortable. And she's like, just masturbate next to each other and like, see how that feels.
And it should feel fine. And then you can like, move on to like missionary or like. Other, you know, honestly, masturbating beside a partner sounds so hot to me. Oh my god. I know. I haven't, we haven't done it yet 'cause he went away, but yeah. It's so hot to me. Yeah. It's all so hot to me. Yeah. Everything she was saying, I was like, this is my favorite conversation.
Yeah. I love it. I love it. If you [00:27:00] need to go to sex therapy. Mm-hmm. You know, it's weird. I think I don't have any kind of like fear or like around, I mean, I have a lot of fear around sex, but about like being like, oh, I have an issue. Yeah. It doesn't really bother me. It doesn't bother
Zoe: me either. But I also think that that's, I think I got more open when I started listening to call her Daddy.
Honestly. I was like, oh my God, sex is so fun. Sure. Let's all be talking about this. Yeah.
Heather: I also think like going to rehab and admitting to the whole Yeah. World and God and everyone that I'm an addict. Yeah. It's like nothing's scary. Nothing is scary. Yeah. And people are kind of expecting it from me now, so it kind of gives me space to like talk about whatever the fuck I want.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But. That being said, not everyone is super open about it, but yeah, sex therapy is super easy. Yeah. Like finding a sex therapist. I don't know how, I mean, just Google it. Even
Zoe: if you're having like trouble with your partner. Yeah. And sex. Yeah. That's what she like does as well. Well, she's a
Heather: psychotherapist.
Yeah. And I imagine most sex therapists are psychotherapists. Yeah. And then [00:28:00] branch off into sex therapy. Yeah. But yeah, 'cause it's so much about the emotional of it all. Mm-hmm. And like CBT and I, I think it's a really good thing if you're at like a. If you're just feeling weird about sex, if you're not having great sex, if you don't wanna be having sex, if there's like tension if you Yeah.
If you don't know
Zoe: to ask. If you don't know how to ask what you want. Yeah. Or if you don't know what you want. Yeah. But you wanna be able to find out what you want and ask for it. Yeah. I don't know. There's, if there, yeah. If you're struggling with like, getting along the road there. Yeah. That's definitely an option.
Heather: It totally is. I was thinking that too. 'cause I was like, how? Or like
Zoe: start talking to one of your, your girlfriends about it. If you're not talking to any of your friends about it, like just bring it up. I know. I I And if your girlfriend judges you for that, then like, fuck her. But, and try another friend. I watched a fun documentary,
Heather: you know, this, um, this, what would you call it?
Umbrella of the train wreck documentaries. Have you seen this? No. It's like the poop cruise. Oh, the, the Travis Scott one. Oh, that was on there [00:29:00] as well. Yeah. So it's
Zoe: like this. So it's all under the same train wreck. Okay. Yeah. Train wreck.
Heather: It's um, it's like just documentaries, like short documentaries. And I watched the one on our boy Rob Ford.
Mm. And that Okay. If you don't know, Rob Ford was our, he was our mayor. Yeah. Currently we have his brother. His brother. Yeah. Wait, Doug Ford's the premier. Olivia Chow is the mayor. Is she? Yeah. Oh. But Rob, Rob Ford was our mayor of Toronto and um, he is a major drug addict. Mm-hmm. He was, you know, there was so much stuff that came out in the press.
The late night guys took it and really ran with it that he just was like smoking crack. There's video footage, pictures of him smoking crack in. Like he just, and he works in parliament. Yeah. Like he's got a big job here in Toronto and he just got caught smoking crack.
Zoe: Mm.
Heather: It's a really good documentary actually.
They all are. Yeah. So like, if you have a rainy day, watch [00:30:00] them all.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: You didn't watch it right? I didn't watch it. So tell me everything.
Zoe: Okay. First of all, when did he die? He died in 2016. He was caught smoking crack in the hotel. I remember that. Yeah. I remember. 'cause 2016 I think I went to high school was when I was going to high school.
Yeah. 'cause that's when I was going college. Yeah. I think like, I remember my grandma being like, oh my
Heather: god. Yeah, because you guys were here. Yeah.
Zoe: Like,
Heather: essentially. Yeah. So yeah. It was so close to the action. Yeah. But people loved him. Okay. Yeah. People loved rock. Did they? Yes. Okay. A lot of people really, really loved him.
He's like in a conservative mm-hmm. Realm that's different in Canada than in business states. Yeah. But yeah. Um, people really liked him. So when people talk about Rob Ford, it's like. People who know him are like, he's a great guy. He's so helpful. He was helpful in the community. He was very boots on the ground.
He got stuff done. It's like he genuinely cared about our city. Okay. He did weird shit. Like also, so did Dougie, but [00:31:00] Dougie, like, remember when he was like shoveling people out of their, like he was shoveling their cars out of the, outta their snow banks a few years ago. I feel like maybe it was like all over the news.
Yeah. But it was just like, oh, he's out here helping. Yeah. But Rob his brother. Yeah. The one who we're talking about, he would do shit like that too. Okay. He was like always like shoveling neighbors.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Uh, sidewalks. He was, there was, he went into like a, a restaurant once and there was no delivery guy to bring something to someone and he was like, I'll do it.
Yeah. And he just like delivered their food. Okay. And I don't know, it's a little showy. It's a little, yeah. We don't
Zoe: know how much of it is set up. It's a little manic. Yeah.
Heather: But at the same time, people that know him mm-hmm. Said like, no, he's a great guy. Okay.
Zoe: Um, so he loved Doug Ford or we loved Rob Ford. I don't know.
And then did something like go off. I did something. I dunno if Switched loved Rob Ford to be
Heather: like, I don't, I wasn't like into politics at that time. Yeah. I wasn't into Toronto politics. Yeah. I think he was okay, but like, don't come at me. I don't know. [00:32:00] They don't have a great background. The Fords like, they come, they're like rural.
They, there was a lot of alcohol around growing up. Like, it just feels like that was very much in the family. Got it. And like as they go on to live their lives, like who robbed Ford? Mary's, like his ex-wife just got a DUI. Mm-hmm. Like there's a lot of, there's a lot of addiction in the fam. Got it.
Zoe: Well, they look like addicts, like, just like how, like red their faces are.
Yeah. It looks like anyone with a red face, you know, they're an addict or an alcoholic, like, you know. Yeah. Especially the men. They get
Heather: the like big beer belly and then just like red, red, red. Especially if you're a super white person.
Zoe: I was even like, when I was drinking, my face would always be red and I would like get like the skincare to calm my red skin down and like that doesn't really happen as much anymore.
'cause like I'm sober. Yeah. Yeah. What is the, what is that? I think it must be like the blood, something about the blood
Heather: thinning. I don't know.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I wonder what that is. Yeah. But yeah, I was always so hot and red. But yeah, the, my initial thoughts mm-hmm. [00:33:00] I had an idea about Rob Ford. I'm like, this fucking crack addict.
Mm-hmm. Is like in parliament bullshit. Mm-hmm. Like, come on. Mm-hmm. You can't, you can do drugs all you want, I don't care. But don't do it at work. Like, don't do it. As the mayor of our fucking city, we have enough problems here. And as I'm watching it, I'm just like feeling so much weird empathy for him.
Mm-hmm. And I start thinking, well, because at the end of the day, he is an addict. Yeah. Yeah. At the end I'm like, let's sw flip the script a little bit. Yeah. This is just a person mm-hmm. Who probably has really good friends, really close friends who love him. Yeah. And he is addicted to drugs. Mm-hmm. That's it.
Yeah. Unfortunately, he's gotten himself into a position of serious power. Yeah. And the ego and the like male bravado that comes with that didn't help the situation. Yeah. However, it's [00:34:00] really interesting to me to think about the Rob Ford situation from an empathy addict perspective. Mm-hmm. He had to, there was allegations that came out
Zoe: mm-hmm.
Heather: About him while he was the mayor, that he was smoking crack. Yeah. There was a video. Okay. Someone had a video, someone texted or emailed the Toronto Star being like, we have a video we wanna sell it to for a hundred thousand dollars. They bought it.
Zoe: Mm-hmm. I remember that coming out. Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: So that was thrilling.
Yeah. And then more and more things started to come out, but before a video actually hit the press, there was allegations of it. There was like, yeah. Rumors about it.
Zoe: Got it.
Heather: There's a video of Rob Ford addressing the nation. Mm-hmm. He's like live on camera.
Zoe: I don't smoke crack.
Heather: I don't smoke crack, and I'm not addicted to crack.
Zoe: Does he look addicted to crack? In my video? He's on
Heather: crack cocaine. Yeah. Okay. The man just did a line or just did a hit. He's on drugs
Zoe: and
Heather: I was [00:35:00] thinking, yeah, fucking, of course he is. Yeah. Imagine the stress of having to address the nation about your drug problem, and you're already a person who can't do anything.
Yeah. Without drugs. Yeah. So now you have to go and lie to everyone in a really big way.
Zoe: Yeah. That's the biggest way ever. It's crazy. Yeah.
Heather: Oh man. Hiding your addiction. It's just like,
Zoe: well, like everyone around him probably knew too. Yeah. And then like the shaming guilt that like, he had to make all of those people lie about it too.
Yeah. You know, it just, it's not just him, it's like his whole circle of people are now caught up in this big lie with him. Mm-hmm. Trying to protect Toronto. Like, and they
Heather: were, yeah. So what they eventually did was they had like a, a vote within Parliament, congress, uh, to. He could stay being the mayor.
Mm-hmm. But they were gonna take all of the mayoral duties off of his plate so he no longer had power like it was given to his like, [00:36:00] deputy mayor. Why
Zoe: would they keep him then, if that was gonna be the case? Just for him to like show face Like what? I, I think for the look Yeah. Of it.
Heather: They were like, we don't, it would look
Zoe: too bad to like, yeah.
Like, we
Heather: don't want our mayor to, I don't know. He, and he also Did he had
Zoe: gone to rehab at this
Heather: point? No. Okay. He also did not want to leave. Yeah. He, when the video of him smoking Crack, crack came out so crazy. It's crazy. Crazy. It's like, it's just like these are supposed to be, and we know that anyone in government is not the fucking pillar of our society except a OC.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: But these are supposed to be the pillar pillars of our society, and they are just smoking crack. Yeah. And I'm like, homie, you're doing it in a hotel room also. Like, you guys have so much money. Why are you smoking crack? Like, how did you get yourself here? This is so. Deep addiction. Mm-hmm. Is what it's, it's what it's
Zoe: like.
He must have been like doing coke for so long that he needed something else. You know? Yeah.
Heather: Also, it doesn't really matter how much money you have. It does, but it doesn't when you have a [00:37:00] Coke addiction. 'cause that shit goes so
Zoe: fast.
Heather: Yeah. Like the amount of people I know who have like, well, just
Zoe: like you always want the new best thing.
Yeah. And then like one day he probably didn't have any cocaine around and then there was someone smoking crack and he's like, okay, let's try this. And then that got up. I think
Heather: like crack hits faster and harder. Yeah. But I think it's shorter lived. It's shorter.
Zoe: Yeah. I think it's only like 30 minutes.
Heather: Mm.
Yeah. And cocaine can last you a little longer than that. But you also, cocaine, I feel like you kinda keep doing it. You
Zoe: gotta keep doing it too. So it's kind
Heather: of the same. Yeah. It's interesting 'cause I was wondering with him, we, I mean we talk about this all the time. There's so many public figures who are on drugs, doing drugs and some of them handle it and some of them don't.
I mean, we have Justin Bieber right now.
Zoe: Yeah. Who's not handling it? Who's not handling it, and like I'm just sick of people being like, oh, what's wrong with Justin Bieber? Yeah. What's wrong with Justin Bieber online? Like showing videos of him. And it's just like he's clearly just on drugs. He's on drugs, he's an addict.
Like someone fucking help him. Yeah. And it's like sad to see like [00:38:00] the whole, like all the guy, all the people who have died of overdoses. Yeah. Everyone's always like, oh, what's happening to Mac Miller? What's happening to this guy? Why is this guy so miserable? Why is he acting out like this? Like, oh, they're addicts guys.
Yeah. Help them. Yeah. Take them to a rehab. Get them help.
Heather: Yeah. Don't
Zoe: just watch them destroy their lives and kill themselves.
Heather: And that's what I feel like we all watched Amy Winehouse kill herself. Like we, man, I loved
Zoe: that documentary of Amy. Oh my God. Oh my God. Watch it.
Heather: Yeah, watch that too. We should watch that.
Yeah,
Zoe: we'll do a review
Heather: that. Oh man. And I just feel like that was so obvious. Yeah. What's happening with Justin is so obvious what's been happening like math Matthew Perry. Yeah. When he did the reunion, the friends reunion, he was slurring his words. Yeah. He, he was not there in the eyes. Yeah. I did not trust what was going on there.
Mm-hmm. But we watch it happen. Yeah. And I saw a video of Justin, where was he? Maybe London. Yeah. I dunno where they were. There was just a festival. Yeah. And he was like dancing shirt off. Yeah. And I [00:39:00] was like, you look meth to me. Yeah. And I say that respectfully, I'm not trying to be like, you look whatever, whatever.
But it's like you here with your wife. Yeah. And you have friends and you were like on serious drugs. Yeah. And there's so much happening in the media right now that I feel like affects him. Yeah. A lot. Did he?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And I'm just like, we've been watching him just go say crazy shit about his wife. Yeah. On Instagram.
No, that's insane.
Zoe: Yeah. It's crazy. It, I don't it feel, but
Heather: it feels.
Zoe: Druggie. Yeah. It feels druggy. Apparently he has like no money right now.
Heather: Oh really?
Zoe: Yeah. Apparently he's like broke low key. Well, yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't know. There's probably just like a lot of stress going on for him and like, obviously he's been drinking and doing drugs forever.
Like he's probably been dabbling with this ship forever. And right now it just seems like he's in a really bad spot. Yeah. And he's just abusing it more and he can get whatever he wants whenever he wants and he can get whatever he wants. He's Justin Bieber. He like, I'm sure he's, he's going to [00:40:00] do it no matter what.
Heather: Yeah. And even if it's just like Adderall prescribed, which it's not. Yeah. Also adderall's meth. But even if it was just that, it's like no, you're taking more. Yeah. Something's not right. Yeah. And I, I do worry, I do worry that he's gonna be the next one Yeah. To fall out of a window. Like same it, it happens all the time.
Yeah. Like you said. Yeah. It's just like we're watching them do it.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And we're just like being too naive about it. Yeah. Like of co Like they're not okay guys. They're not okay. And so when I watch this documentary and when that comes out, so many people are so mad, like, and they're making fun of him.
It's all of these things. And I'm like, yeah. I mean, it is ridiculous that, I don't know, I'm sick of like,
Zoe: don't make fun of an addict. Like that's like a disease guys. Yeah. Like, that's like making fun of someone for having cancer, bro. Like, yeah. Stop this, stop this. Shame. Help them.
Heather: Yeah. I think the plot has kind of been
Zoe: lost.
Yeah. Um,
Heather: lost are just like miseducated. Yeah. Because now what's happened, he's [00:41:00] under like, so much stress. Mm-hmm. And people know about it and he might lose his job and like his whole world is being rocked by like everyone finding out.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Um, and those are the moments where I'm like, oh my God, he's gonna kill himself.
Like those are the scary moments when people get caught, but then he doubles down. He doubles down and
Zoe: says, I'm not smoking crack. He says, I'm not smoking. Crack crack. That's crazy. And he
Heather: runs for
Zoe: mayor
Heather: again
Zoe: and he gets it. Yes. That's crazy. I don't know anything about this shit. It is. Here are my two
Heather: thought processes.
We love
Zoe: a drug addict,
Heather: mayor. I love it. It's chaos. My two thought processes are empathy. Empathy. He's an addict. Yeah. He needs help. And my other processes are. Get the fuck
Zoe: out of parliament. Well, my A third is like, what the fuck are these like people in power by his time, like his team? Well, they're enabling it.
Like they're taking way, they're enabling it. That's the thing. [00:42:00] That's the people around him are responsible for him and clearly they don't give a shit about him. And that's where I'm like, that those are the people that can actually help him. Yeah. And they're not doing anything. And that's where I think I have trouble with it, because Yeah, he will never, he won't admit to it unless some, unless some things start going downhill and he starts losing some things, you know?
Yes. And he needs to know that he's fucking shit up. But if he doesn't realize that. He's fucking anything up. Yeah. He's just gonna keep going with it and act like everything's
Heather: okay. And then you have Dougie Ford who's also enabling his brother by just acting like nothing's happening. Kind of comes in, swoops in, like helps out.
There's everyone around him. Yeah, yeah. Is like, oh, there's a problem here. I mean, but we're gonna avoid it. You, you know this clip of Doug Ford, Rob Ford of when he was like, and God, I can't with him. And another thing the press said that I harassed this woman and I said I wanted to eat her pussy. I got enough to eat at home.
Zoe: The [00:43:00] original Donald Trump, it sounds like the
Heather: original Donald Duck. It's just like chaos and confusion and I'm like, this is our mayor. Literally. It is the responsibility, the, it's weird. 'cause it's like, yeah, addiction is your own responsibility, but it's also like he's in a position of power, everyone around him for the country's sake, for like the, the city's sake.
The province. Yeah. It's like you can't be in power, you can't handle your drug addiction and the responsibility of being mayor.
Zoe: Well, no, because if, if we didn't lose anything, we wouldn't want to get sober. Yeah. You know, like if, if you didn't gain a hundred pounds, you know, if you didn't Yeah. If you didn't have to get, quit your job, if your boyfriend didn't break up with you, if none of those things happened, and if you were just like skinny and perfect and still had a boyfriend and still was working that job,
Heather: yeah.
Zoe: You wouldn't have gotten sober. Would you have? Probably
Heather: not. No. Well, I say this all the time too. The skinny thing was huge for me. Yeah. If I, I had friends in rehab who they were at rehab so, so [00:44:00] skinny. Yeah. Because they don't eat when they drink.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I was like, fuck man. If I was skinny, if I was drinking and I wasn't eating, I don't know if I would've stopped.
I certainly wouldn't have stopped when I did. Yeah. Like I would've kept that going
Zoe: if you weren't, if you were skinny.
Heather: Yeah. If I wasn't as big as a house. 'cause that was so unbelievably depressing and I was like, any bigger, and I'm gonna be on TLC, they're gonna have to crane me outta here. Wasn't
Zoe: even that big guys
Heather: man, though vanity Yeah.
Zoe: Is real.
Heather: It is real. And it goes both ways too, because it's like, I was not, I was so ugly. Yeah. You know, relatively in the, in hindsight, yeah. In my brain. Well,
Zoe: like also like yeah. Our faces were humongous. Like my face was humongous. Sure. I wasn't like that fat. I wasn't really that fat. Bits and pieces where I was like 40 pounds heavier or 30.
Mm-hmm. But I relatively stayed around the same weight. Yeah. But yeah. No, my face was fat and red. Yeah. Like
Heather: [00:45:00] raw boards. Yeah. But vanity is huge. Like when I, when I started losing weight fast Yeah. After I stopped drinking, I was like, oh, this is helpful. Yeah. Because I can like see something happening quickly.
Yeah. I, and I know that if I start drinking, this goes away. Yeah. And like, yeah, I have eating disorders, I have all kinds of body issues. Yeah. That was kind of helpful for me. Yeah. But
Zoe: anyway, um, but yeah, if he, if someone took something away from him, maybe he would recognize that there was a problem. He did know.
Like he,
Heather: once he knew, we all knew. Yeah. He eventually. Took accountability eventually. Yeah.
Zoe: But, well, yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't happen immediately. Like I wouldn't get caught and be like, oh yeah, I do this. You know? Same. Like that's the thing. That's the thing. If someone had a video of me like drinking, and I was pretending to be sober for a month.
Yeah. You know, I'd be like, that wasn't me.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. It's [00:46:00] like you can only, you can only deny, deny, deny until we have a literal video of your face with a crack pipe in it. But then you can
Zoe: probably still kinda be like, ah, nah, that's not me.
Heather: Well, now you can just say it's ai. Yeah. Which is crazy. True. Oh my God, she did not have that luxury.
We saw you, babe. Yeah. We saw you smoking crack in your button up shirt. Things should have been taken away from him. Yeah. He should have been fired. They should have. Yeah. And it should have been immediate. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're putting other people in danger. You're a ser, you're a like what? A public servant.
Yeah. You can't be on drugs. It's, but then look at Donald Trump right now. Like he sucks too. We can't get into that. 'cause we can't get that. We get into that, then things are gonna go crazy. Yeah. Well that's the other end of the spectrum. If you've never drank anything in your life, I don't trust you. Yeah.
That's not true for everybody, but whatever. So then what happened? Okay, so he went to rehab
Zoe: eventually,
Heather: so Yeah. Eventually after all the videos, all the evidence is out. [00:47:00] Yeah. He says he, he, you know, he addresses the nation and he does say like, yo, yo, I fucked up. I did. I did. I do. I have a, he didn't say he has an addiction.
He said, do I have an addiction? No. Have I smoked crack before? Yeah. Probably in my, in my drunken stupor. Yeah. And I, you know what? I want you guys, I want that video to come out. I want you guys to see the state I was in because I was probably in a drunken stupor when I did that. So he's like half taking account of money.
Yeah. Like, and I get it. Yeah. I get it. It takes, it takes time. Yeah. You know, it wasn't until like after, after rehab, I mm-hmm. I told my sister that I was like, also taking Oxy. Yeah. Like, it was, you know, you, you tell the truth and pieces, things come. Yeah. Things come out. Yeah. And he's in front of everybody, so that's way scarier.
Yeah. But he, he takes a little bit of accountability and then he goes to rehab. Mm-hmm. What I know through my rehab people is that Doug Ford did not take it very seriously. I mean, Rob Ford did not take it very seriously. [00:48:00] You guys were discussing Rob Ford in your rehab. Yeah. Because there was like some counselors who like knew him Yeah.
Had like been through the circuit and also like, you hear things from like Yeah. When there's like drama mm-hmm. At another rehab, you hear about it. Yeah. Um, like, well, if they're like close together, but apparently he allegedly was like, well, first of all not sober when he showed up to rehab and also was like having alcohol delivered mm-hmm.
To rehab and then they kicked him out.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: That's what I was told from the inner circle. However, on this documentary, when he leaves rehab, he comes back. And mind you, when he's in rehab, I think this is when like Rob Ford, Doug Ford comes in, his brother comes in and like takes the job. It's so confusing 'cause they both sound the same.
Look Rob. And they look the the same. They look the same. Yeah. So when Rob Ford comes back, he's like 30 pounds lighter. His like bodyguard is saying like, he look great. He's been working out. Mm-hmm. He's healthy. Did he look better? Yeah. Yeah, he did. He actually did look a lot better. Okay. And I'm like, well, yeah.
Okay. So you were in rehab. [00:49:00] Yeah. And you whatever, lost 30 pounds I guess. Um. That's good. Yeah. That's really, really good. Now I am watching this, wanting to judge him be like, oh, he's not fucking sober. But I'm like, no, I think he actually might be. I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. He actually might be.
Yeah. What I think I was watching, I'm gonna just create like a new term. Mm. I feel like it's the post rehab surge where you come home and you're like, I know everything now. Yeah. I have had revelations
Zoe: my
Heather: life is this, this, and this. Because of that, that and that. Yeah. I don't need to drink. When I do, it reminds me of this like, yeah,
Zoe: you can't be too cocky about it when you get out.
You can't be like, I know now everything. Yeah, I know everything and nothing. I could never make a mistake again. Yeah. And I'm on fire and I'm amazing. You can't be too cocky coming outta rehab. You have to stay humble throughout the whole [00:50:00] thing.
Heather: Did they tell you that in rehab? Like humble? 'cause they did.
They told us that.
Zoe: I don't know. I feel like I just made that up because I am amazing. Oh, okay. Yeah. But, but they did tell us that. I feel like it's just like, I always just took so much time with everything that I did and I didn't like
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Overcompensate or like do like, that's just like, not in my nature.
I feel
Heather: Well that's the thing, right? Yeah. Like going to rehab and then coming right back into your job. But someone's,
Zoe: yeah. Someone who's a mayor of a city, like of course they're gonna act like that. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah. And they like, they also, there is a thing with these political leaders, public figures, there is an ego.
Mm-hmm. That comes with it. Yeah. For sure. And I, and I think that, and we see it in Jax Taylor too. Yeah. Jax Taylor went to rehab and then came home from rehab and I don't think he went, but he's still sober though too, eh? No. What? Oh, he is not, he's, oh, not, okay. Look at his eyes. That guy is never been sober.
Okay. That person is wackadoo, but he left rehab and then he went to a [00:51:00] party and he like wasn't drinking. And he's like, mm-hmm. Yeah. Well I don't wanna drink. Drinking isn't my problem, anger's my problem.
Zoe: That's what Rob or Jack said. That's what Jack said. Said,
Heather: but it's this like idea that you leave rehab with this like new knowledge of sobriety.
Yeah. And you just think you're smarter than, than everybody. You're not, you're not, you're not
Zoe: smarter just because you went to rehab. You're at the
Heather: very beginning
Zoe: and you're at the very beginning, like maybe Yes. If you're 20 years sober, I will listen to, to what you have to say when you're not even a year sober, even when you're four years sober.
Yeah. I'm probably not gonna listen to a thing you fucking say.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Like if you're having all these new pro new Yeah. Profound perspectives, you know, and that's what I, it takes time. I need to learn to trust you. Yeah.
Heather: And that's why I like our mental health check-in, because it's like if I ask anybody, but especially an addict that I know, if I ask you How you doing?
Yeah. And you say, I'm great. Yeah. And that's it. Oh, I don't believe you. Yeah. You're a liar. What's actually happening. Yeah. And if you are great, sure. But [00:52:00] what else is going on? Yeah. Because I don't trust that also, none of us are great, great, great. Yeah. Like you're great. But there's, there's still some things.
There's gonna be things like, and I, I feel like when I watched him do it, it almost felt like when, in Grey's Anatomy, when Mick Steamy was in the plane crash and he was fine, and then they brought him back to the hospital and he was like. He was gonna die. But then one day he was like up and he was having this thing called the surge.
Yeah. And he was talking and laughing and before they die. Yeah. And that happens against a lot of people. And is that what happened to Rob? That's No, but that's what I feel like it is, is yeah. After rehab, it's that same idea of like, I feel great. I'm having all of these like good feelings. Yeah. My like hormones have leveled out.
I know everything. And I'm in charge
Zoe: obviously too, like after rehab, like you are on a high. Yeah. Like you, you do feel amazing,
Heather: but you are not ready to go back to being the mayor of a big city.
Zoe: Yeah. Like you [00:53:00] do get a high after you leave rehab, but that doesn't mean that you should be giving out like mm-hmm.
Amazing advice to everybody and yeah. Thinking that you are now God, like no, you have to stay humble and like respect people's boundaries and know that you don't know everything. Yeah. Like there's people out there that have so much more sobriety than you and you should be asking them. You shouldn't be thinking that you're.
Better than everybody else now that you are out of rehab and have one month sobriety.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: They were like, you have to stay humble. You have to understand like you guys are just fresh outta rehab. Yeah. Like you just learned the tools. Mm-hmm. But now you're gonna walk outside and you're gonna be hit with all the triggers.
Yeah. And you're not, you're not cured. And I was very aware of that. Yeah. I felt like very scared Yeah. To leave. But this, and maybe it's overcompensating. Yeah. Maybe you're like, oh no, everything's fine. I'm good. I learned a lot. Yeah. You know what? It's over. You don't wanna
Zoe: think about like how you're actually feeling.
Yeah. So you're just pretending like everything's okay.
Heather: But when I watched him, I was like, no, [00:54:00] no, no, no. This boy is not ready. He is new, fresh baby outta rehab. He is in no way ready to get back to his job. Mm-hmm. This is insane. Yeah. But he did. Mm-hmm. And then a few months later, he got cancer and he had like two months and then he died.
Zoe: Well that's why I said it's kind of is like the surge because like he did end up dying. Yeah, yeah. So it's a
Heather: little bit eerie.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But listen, we can't, we can't say whether or not that's alcohol slash drug related. Yeah. But we can surmise. We can assume one's lifestyle has to do with it. And did he die sober?
Yeah. Do we know? Apparently.
Zoe: Apparently. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Good for you Rob. Yeah, I'm glad that he died sober. If he did die sober, obviously him too. Like that sucks to get, that would suck. To get sober and to like, I don't know if he was like doing good with his sobriety or anything. Yeah. But that would be awful then to [00:55:00] just, I dunno.
I mean if get an illness and die
Heather: if scare tactics work for you. Yeah. Don't fucking do drugs and alcohol because it will ruin your life. It will, it will ruin your body. It's, it's gonna take you, it will. It's just slowly killing you. It is
Zoe: just one glass of wine is poison. Mm-hmm.
Heather: That is true. It is. That is true.
And not to be prohibitionist about it. Yeah. But it's true. It's true. And no one's telling you that. Mm-hmm. And I really do like this conversation about like everyone around him enabling him. Yeah. Because we as addicts know that you're not ready to go and get clean until you are ready.
Zoe: Well, I talk about this like, I think a lot of my friends didn't cut me out of their lives because they liked having me there because they.
Could Dr. Drink and feel good about themselves still, because at least they were not getting as drunk as I was. You were the worst. I was the worst. So it made everyone around me feel like good about their drinking. Yeah. [00:56:00] Because at least like they weren't as fucked up as Zoe over there, you know? Yeah. I think that's a lot.
Uh, I don't know per se. Like, I'm not saying that is a bad thing for my friends. I'm just saying that, that I've thought about that recently, that maybe that's a reason why I didn't have as many like friend breakups as some people. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Obviously I'm, I'm also just like a good person at the end of the day, and I think, like my friends did know that I was trying to control my drinking or be a good person at the end of the day.
Yeah. Um, but you never
Heather: know. Like, it could have taken one more month and all your friends would've been like, honestly, fuck this. Truly, I think it
Zoe: was. Yeah. Because I didn't. I didn't meet them for a hangout like a week before I went to rehab because I couldn't, I couldn't go to the subway. I didn't know how to do anything.
Yeah. Oh, the subway. Oh, the subway. Not to say that my friends were enabling me.
Heather: That's a bit of a different situation. Yeah. 'cause you're all drinking. Yeah. You're not [00:57:00] doing a job that's hurting somebody or that you could be hurting somebody. You're all kind of doing the same thing. You're just a little crazier.
Yeah. And everyone is enabling everybody. Yeah. Right. Like your presence. Yeah. Was enabling other people to drink more. Yeah. That's not. Actively your fault. Yeah. In the same way that I don't think it was actively, I mean, I don't know, but actively their fault that you were drinking so much.
Zoe: No. Either way, I was gonna be drinking that much.
Yeah. But I think that now that I'm not drinking around my friends, there's other people now that are the worst. Yeah. You know, and that's just showing other things that maybe my friends didn't see before in themselves or in each other.
Heather: Yeah. It is really hard when he, you're doing something because someone else is doing it, and then they decide to not do it anymore and you're like, fuck.
Mm-hmm. I, I guess I just wanted to bring up this one point that when these videos came out, mm of, of Robbie smoking crack, he was being harassed at work and at home. [00:58:00] Like they were on his front lawn, all these reporters and everything. And I was just thinking like. What if you're a person who has a secret addiction, a secret crack addiction, and you're like, family doesn't even know.
Mm-hmm. And then all of a sudden everybody knows. And it's not even just embarrassing for like you, and you have to admit it to your family now. Like everybody knows and you are now having to control everyone's Mm. Thoughts and feelings and what they know. Like you're gonna have to mediate all of that.
Yeah. I can't even think about that.
Zoe: No, it's actually so much. I would just
Heather: quit. Yeah. The fact that he didn't quit is shocking to me. Yeah.
Zoe: It might have been like everyone in his power, like everyone around him, didn't want him to quit, which is like, what the fuck, guys?
Heather: I also wonder how many people around him are also smoking crack.
That's another thing. Right? That's another thing. You're a product of your environment in ways and who's around you. Yeah. You can't stop anyone. I mean, you really can't, but what you can do is what you said is take their fucking power away. Yeah. Take their power away. He's not [00:59:00] allowed to have this job, and yet it sucks.
Having an addiction is having a disease. But the consequence of it is that you don't get to have your
Zoe: job
Heather: right now. Yeah,
Zoe: exactly. Until you get clean. Yeah. Just like cancer patients can't really do anything because they're doing radiation and Yeah. Have to lay down all day, you know?
Heather: Yeah. It's really, oh, it's really frustrating.
I, um, I also find, I find it confusing, and I also think there's a relation between the forwards, like they're. Their, like inability to take accountability. Their, this bravado, this ego, because Doug Ford is the one, he's the premier and he's the one that's shutting down all the safe injection sites. Mm-hmm.
Which is where
Zoe: Rob,
Heather: yeah. It's where people go, go to do drugs safely.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: It's a place where you can go and sit down and if your drugs are bad, [01:00:00] they'll know in 15 minutes when you overdose and they'll give you Narcan. Mm-hmm. And then you go on your merry way. Like he's shutting these places down and it, it, now watching this documentary and seeing like how much cover up there is, how much enablement and how much, like, just, just blurring of it all I'm thinking.
Are you so embarrassed and ashamed, and when you like, think about safe injection sites, you just of think about your family and you just can't handle it. That's like
Zoe: so sad too, because you should remember him as being like, at least like he tried to get sober, I guess. Like Yeah. You can't think of him as an addict.
Yeah. Or like, I, that's really sad if he does, because that
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: That's just like a really shitty outlook to have.
Heather: Yeah. And I don't actually know if, if he, I mean, in the documentary it didn't say anything blasphemous about him in terms of like, you know, he ever did anything racist or mm-hmm. Homophobic or sexist.
Yeah. It didn't say any of that. Um, but what was kind of nice, and I only, I only say [01:01:00] that to preface like, yeah, if he has, like, if he has, we don't, I don't, we
Zoe: don't support,
Heather: I don't love
Zoe: the, we don't love this person. We just are from an addict perspective. From an addict perspective, like I'm sure Rob Ford wasn't a great.
Person, but he's at the end of the addict and people can still help him and treat that.
Heather: Yeah. He's like doing something he can't stop doing. Yeah. Like he has an addiction, he cannot stop doing it and he has to do his job. And he's like, how am I gonna figure out how to do drugs and my job? I'm not gonna stop doing drugs.
Yeah. So I have to figure out how to do my job.
Zoe: Both. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah. Both. And you can't, what I did like is at the end of the documentary, and that's why I brought up all like the, we don't really know him, but mm-hmm. Um, at the end they were talking about his legacy. Mm. And yeah, there's all this bullshit, but they were going like, okay, if you could describe him in one word, and it was like, kind, helpful, a go-getter, um, you [01:02:00] know, someone was like, outrageous or like would just kind of say what's on his mind.
It was like positive things and that made me feel very sad. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, he's a human. Yeah, he was a little boy at one time. Yeah. Yeah. And whatever got him here. I mean, you should not have been in parliament.
Zoe: Yeah. But
Heather: whatever got you here, it's just like, that must have been so hard and stressful.
Yeah. And trying to hide that addiction from everybody, God. And then to get sober and then to die. It's just, it feels so sad. Yeah, it does. It's a really good documentary. Yeah. And I think that
Zoe: we
Heather: should, we should watch it. Well, you also
Zoe: watched the Travis Scott one, you said.
Heather: I watched the Travis Scott one and I was not happy.
Zoe: Not happy.
Heather: And I think it's like no one takes accountability. Yeah.
Zoe: Is what it is. Bingo.
Heather: I feel like, yeah, I, I feel like women do actually, I feel like women do. I feel like I don't have a choice but to take, like, I literally like accidentally used a tone with you and felt [01:03:00] so fucking bad. I was like, I need to make sure that you're okay,
Zoe: because I never want you to feel like that.
But I also think that that's us being addicts too, though. Yeah. I think it's like we. Know that we have to like make sure that we don't do anything that we regret. Yeah. Because we will sit on that and like think about that all night later. Yeah. So it's better to just apologize. Yeah. And to take accountability than to just think about it while we're up at night and three in the morning, you know?
That's true. And then we grow resentments and then we drink. Yeah. So I think as addicts we know that we have to take accountability right away and be honest and just say it in the moment. Yeah. But they don't want to, they don't Yeah. Want to admit that they're wrong because they can't because of their fucking egos.
Heather: Yeah. And I think that is like huge in sobriety too. Yeah. And just to be a little binary about it. Yeah. It does feel from experience that women, we do sobriety in a little bit of a more emotional way. Yeah. 'cause we're also born and bred to be a little more emotional. Yeah. We're, we have access [01:04:00] to talking to our girlfriends like this.
Yeah. We are allowed to be a little more vulnerable. Yeah. Where the men don't necessarily have that. So I think it's almost. They wanna be on off. Yeah. I was drinking, now I'm not drinking. Yeah. I was smoking crack and now I'm not and everything's good. We know that's not true. Yeah. I wake up every day being like, how am I, yeah.
Like, I'm an addict. Yeah. I'm just, and then we're gonna have a great day, you know,
Zoe: let's do this. It's, let's take on this
Heather: day. And I have male friends who are addicts who I worry about them because they'll say things to me like, oh, I'll, I'm never gonna drink again. Yeah. I know. I'll never drink again. Yeah.
You know what, if I had, if I had a bender this weekend, yeah. I'd be fine. I'm like, I don't even wanna hear that from you. Yeah. Because that's not true. I don't feel like that. Mm-hmm. I don't even wanna like, say that to myself.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: It's not an option. No. And I, I, I think that moving forward in like addiction and mental health and men, it's like we really gotta start fostering these like, [01:05:00] vulnerable conversations.
Yeah.
Zoe: And that's why like. Meetings are great for men to like open up and like actually talk about their feelings. Like when I'm in a meeting and a man's talking about like how he's feeling, I'm like, okay, perfect. I love that. Yeah. Amazing. Mm-hmm. Good for you. Let's do this more. You know, it is really nice to see that.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a great outlet. Um,
Heather: well, I mean, like Dak, she had Brad Pitt on his Yes. Podcast and Brad Pitt's an addict. Yes. He didn't talk about as much as I would've
Zoe: wanted him to. No. But like he definitely has never done a long form conversation like that, ever. No. That clear ever. And he. I don't know.
He just seems like a little shy boy. He, which is like, kind of really cute. I wanna like get into him and open him up and fuck him. Yeah. Fuck. He's hot. Put my face on it.
Heather: It was really nice though to like, hear him and, and I did like that he was a little shy about it. Yeah. And he said that too. He is like going into the meetings.
Yeah. Because I feel like you. Like the way that you talk about meetings, you're like, just go to meetings. Like, yeah, not to me, but like to other people you're like, you just gotta go. [01:06:00] It's good. Yeah. And I think that that's super nerve wracking for some people. Yeah. And I imagine for the men it's even worse because it's like, for sure I have to like meet other men and admit I have the problem.
I guess. I don't know where they land.
Zoe: It's just like I was never scared of it because I was going there originally for a boy Yeah. That I liked. So I never like got to be scared of it. I was always like, okay, this is what me and my boy are doing.
Heather: So maybe if you're a man and you're an addict, find a man that you have a crush on.
Yes. Who's also an addict who can bring you to the meeting, confess that
Zoe: you are a little bit bi to yourself, and then find a man and hold hands with him at the meeting.
Heather: And that just brings us us to our overall theme of the podcast, that if you want to be an evolved man, kiss another man. Kiss another man.
Right on the mouth. Yeah. It was pride last
Zoe: weekend.
Heather: It was pride last weekend. And all I want is for my boyfriend to kiss another man on the mouth.
Zoe: Well, I think our boyfriends will kiss.
Heather: Yeah, I know. I'm excited. I'm
Zoe: excited. [01:07:00] Um, it was Pride last weekend. I went to Electric Island with Matt boy. Yeah. And you guys are cute.
Was really fun. Your outfits. Thank you.
Heather: These are little bunnies.
Zoe: And yeah, his friend got us like guest list, which got us free tickets for VIP. Mm-hmm. Which was really cool. I guess his friend works for Live Nation so he can just get whoever he wants on Jay-Z. Yeah. I have no idea. I have no idea. I just was like along for the ride.
Yeah. Um, but I got to meet his friend, which was really cool because. You could tell, like he, he goes to these things often. He goes to like every electric island that happens in the city, it happens every long weekend in Toronto during the summer. Oh. So you can tell, like he goes to these things often. He likes it, but he does like drugs and drinks at everyone.
So it's kind of like refreshing for him to see us to sober people. Mm-hmm. Like at this rave together.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, and like
Heather: probably kissing
Zoe: and like touching and having fun and dancing [01:08:00] and generally having a good time. You know, like he was really. He said that he was really proud of us and happy that we were there because Yeah, he went home early that night.
He didn't really get that fucked up. He, I think he left early the night before, like the next night too. And he was just like looking at his drinking a little bit better and he was like, it's just hard to, I don't want to drink every mm-hmm. Event. I don't want to do drugs at every event. Yeah. But all the people that are here at this event with me are drinking and doing drugs.
So having you two here is helpful that I don't need to do that.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Around you. It kind of reminds me of the fact that I thought that my parents hated seeing me in the city because I, they don't drink around me. And I thought that that made them like sad that they can't drink around me. Yeah. Like it's like a burden that you're not drinking.
Exactly. But he, my dad actually was like, no, it's actually. I love that we don't have to drink around you. Mm-hmm. Because it's refreshing and I don't [01:09:00] feel like I have to drink with you when my dad's out with his friends or with other family members, he feels like he has to drink. Yeah. Because everyone is drinking.
He doesn't feel that way when he's around me. And he said it's nice. Yeah. And I just love to be someone, like a sober person to look up to. I really do. It's, yeah. All these interactions that I've been having in the past week has just shown me that I value my sobriety so much and I just am here to now help other people along the way.
And yeah, shit's so fucking hard sometimes. But yeah, it's really beautiful. I really love that he said that to us.
Heather: You're doing a great job. I like heard snippets of like a conversation you were having today with someone who was like, needed some. Guidance. Guidance. And I was like, fuck yeah, Zoe. Like, that's what I would've needed.
Yeah. Like, I don't know if I would've asked for it, but even, yeah.
Zoe: Yeah. Like, well, I've been just telling this girl that's trying to get sober. Like, just keep us, keep calling me when you are feeling sad. Please don't do anything until you call me. If you [01:10:00] still wanna do, if you still wanna drink or do drugs after you call me, fine.
Yeah. But maybe call me first.
Heather: Well, we were talking about this today too, while we were getting sunburned that there is something about putting it out into the universe. Yeah. You're like saying little things. Like, I was texting my friend Paige, like, I need to go to rehab and then deleting it. But she didn't have the update so she saw the text.
Yeah. And like I was saying, little things here and there, like, I think I need to go, or I think something's wrong. And you're like, you're amping yourself up. Yeah. So like those people that are coming in and out being like, I wanna get sober. Yeah. It's, it's just like saying
Zoe: it's, it's just like a sign that.
They want to and they kind of like are acknowledge and they're looking at their drinking. Yeah. Is what it is. And they're acknow. Yeah. They're preparing themselves. Yeah.
Heather: Because you're gonna have to go and get sober. Yeah. That's cool. Okay. Well 30-year-old Heather signing off. Oh my God. Next time you see me, I'll be 31.
31 and thriving
Zoe: 31. It's just another year. And like we are so fortunate to be getting [01:11:00] older and to be on this life and not be dead in a ditch. Oh my God. Or are you like dead in your piss? Like, you know my throw up on parent? Yeah. You know,
Heather: my decomposing giant body just fusing to the sofa.
Zoe: Horrible. I'm so happy that you're turning 31 and that you're here and that you're alive and that you're sober.
Oh my God. And that you're my best friend.
Heather: Oh, I'm so, even though I used a tone with you before, even though you used a tone with you, are we okay more than Okay. Okay. I'm glad everyone was here to know that. 'cause I was very nervous. Don't let me use a tone with you. Okay. I'll call you out next time. Now that I feel like I caught myself immediately though.
Yeah, you did. Love you. Love you. See you. Uh,
Zoe: see you. See you next
Heather: time. See you Wednesday.
Zoe: See you. When do I see you? You will see me on Wednesday. What's Wednesday? Boxing and dinner. Boxing and dinner.
Heather: Oh, it's my birthday. Yeah. Proud of you babe. Perfect. Proud of you. Love you. Goodbye.[01:12:00]
Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Undrunk podcast and or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com.
Zoe: What happened the last 10 minutes of that was fucking chaotic. I love it. It's kind of funny. I love it.
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