#19: We Should Always Be Kempt
Heather and Zoe bring a bit of chaos this week, talking open relationships, Charlie XCX and drug culture, concerts, cheating, poop anxiety, and putting sobriety first—even when your situationship can't handle it. Total honesty, as always.
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We Should Always Be Kempt: Transcript
Heather: [00:00:00] This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening.
Oh my God. Oh my God. What? Wait. DJ just, I know. Just said, did you see my IG story? I did. He's engaged. Stop.
Zoe: Oh my God. I know. Oh my God. I honestly love the Pink dj. I love the Pink Nails
Heather: dj. Congratulations guys. Our editor is engaged. He's engaged.
Zoe: You obviously haven't met the what? The fiance. Just on Zoom.
Just on Zoom. She's
Heather: lovely. Sarah. She looks like, um, Flo. She looks like Florence Pugh. Congratulations dj. This [00:01:00] is literally, so congratulations dj. We're gonna have a Girl Undrunk Wedding. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. Welcome back to Girl Undrunk. My name is Heather. My name is
Zoe: Zoe. How's everybody doing?
I mean, my mental health is like,
Heather: good. Yeah. I'm excited
Zoe: for tomorrow. 'cause I get to see my man.
Heather: Oh, I was like, what's tomorrow? What did I forget? Yeah, it's not nothing about you. You actually, every time, every time you're like, okay, see you. See you. What? I think, I feel like I said this last time, like every time you're like, see you tomorrow.
I'm like, what is tomorrow? I
Zoe: think it must just be like you lost more brain cells than me. Like, because you were drinking for longer, eh, drinking for longer than me by a couple years. I don't know.
Heather: I just, yeah, maybe. But I also just think that like, when you make a plan, I'm baby, and I'm like, and you're like, yeah, sure.
She's got me. And then I'm like, she'll remind me. Which is like so
Zoe: rude.
Heather: But I know,
Zoe: but like, I know, I have to remind you. And I'm like, I would do that for any friend. Yeah. It's not like you're, you're not being like. Obnoxious by like
Heather: making me me ask you, not like trying to neglect what you're [00:02:00] saying to me.
I'm just like, fuck me. I can't remember. Well,
Zoe: I was talking to her yesterday saying To who? To you? Me. I was, I texted you yesterday. I texted you yesterday saying I can't wait for the lymphatic compression and our meditation. And you were like, oh, we're meditating after. And I said, yeah. It was fully your idea to book the meditation class.
Well, even on
Heather: Wednesday when we were at boxing, you're like, see, Friday? And I was like. What's Friday's? You're like, we're literally going to trope for your stupid birthday. Oh. But one to 10. How's your
Zoe: mentee? My mentee is probably like a seven today. Okay. Like, I'm excited for tomorrow to see my man, but I'm also just like, I don't know, like work is just so long this week.
Yeah. It's kind of just like draining and I'm just like, when is this fricking podcast going to blow up and take over the world?
Heather: Yeah. You know? Gotta get out of the clinic. [00:03:00] So I just cracked my neck. I'm sorry, dj, did you hear that? On camera on, did you hear that on camera?
Zoe: Okay. Thank God I swallowed that water. I thought it was gonna be a spit take. I was really concerned. So stupid. You saw that in my eye.
Heather: In your one eye. Yeah. The one real one. Um, how is your mental? My mental is fine. I, yesterday was great, honestly, like. You had a great day. Imagine if I just stopped it there and I was like, yesterday was great.
No, yesterday was lovely. We went to Trove, we went, we did a lymphatic compress. Mm-hmm We did a me a sleep meditation.
Zoe: Yeah. It was asleep meditation and I did pass out so comfy. There was lots of people snoring.
Heather: Well, I have like allergies and anxiety and it like blocks my. My nose vessels, oh, my vessels, my blood vessels in my nose and I can't breathe.
And so like I'm lying there trying to like breathe through my nose and like, I'll, I'll die here. So I'm like, and I'm a mouth breather and I'm like, you're a mouth, [00:04:00] mouth breather. No, but I just couldn't breathe in that moment. Oh, in that moment. Got it. No. How dare you? I would never be, I tape my mouth closed and if I can't breathe through my nose, I'll just die.
Do you tape your mouth shut every night? Yes. Wow. Yes. And sometimes my nose gets like stuffed. Yeah. And then I like, I can rip it off. I'm like,
Zoe: and that's why you wake up with anxiety attacks?
Heather: No, literally, literally, I like tape my mouth like, like I've been watching Dateline since I was in utero and I'm like, actively?
Yeah. What is it called? Like um, when you're like pseudo, no idea what word you're thinking when you're like mimicking, uh, kidnapping. I think I will never get the word that you're thinking. You used a fun word today. What word did I use? Scu.
Is that not a word? Succumb? Now, I would love for you to spell it. What? How did I use that in a sentence? If you [00:05:00] were like, I'm usually like, now that I'm sober, I'm usually not competitive, but I did succumb to the fear pressure. Oh,
Zoe: succumb. Yeah.
To come. Yeah. I'll go bury myself now. No, it's okay. I like it. I actually can't. I love it. I can't, I don't know English guys. You lost a lot of brain cells and you can't remember plans.
Heather: Yeah,
Zoe: and I can't say words. Yeah. And now I have a podcast, but I feel like maybe that has always been the situation. Oh, it has definitely always been the situation.
I am Amaya papaya, you guys.
Heather: Oh, love violin.
Zoe: Yeah. You know how she like can't say anything, right. I know that because you tell me that. But she's also like, English is not her first language, so like she gets a pass. I shouldn't get a pass. I just say shit wrong all the time, and it's a part of my charm.
Heather: Can you speak French at all?
Zoe: No. Did you gorgeous get this girl, the fra
Heather: fra the France Get me a, [00:06:00] um, okay. You can't speak French.
Zoe: No.
Heather: Did you? But you had French class? Yeah. Grade? Well, one to grade what? 10? I feel like it was like grade six to grade grade three to grade nine. You didn't have French in grade one and two?
Zoe: No. Or 10?
Definitely not. Huh? I wanna say it was from grade three to grade nine. Did you guys bully your French teacher? No. Really? Well, no, because we, we bullied our friend.
Heather: Well, I, you know what's funny? I was in a lot of like, it's so fucked up, but like, did your, I don't know if your high school did this, but we had like college track and university track.
So like, okay. Yeah. Like for this in high
Zoe: school only. Yes. Yeah.
Heather: And for the states it's different. Mm-hmm. Like college and university can be like kind of on par here. It's like college is the trades. Yeah. And university is like business school. I don't know. Yeah. Like doctors, lawyers. Yeah. I don't even know what you would call it, but just, yeah.
It's more like [00:07:00] books. Education book, education book, et educate that like all college is more like working with your hands, getting, yeah. Getting job experience more profe not, I don't wanna say professional '
Zoe: cause it's not.
Heather: Well usually when you go to college and like for the trades. Yeah. And you get a job right.
At a college. Yeah. Whereas like university, it's like, oh, now we might have to go on to get more things to do this. Yeah. Like intern and masters. That was like the worst way to describe like our, but I haven't been in school in a long time and honestly I can't do it. I can't do it. But I, I took a lot of, in high school, I took a lot of college level courses, so like the lower end because I was not good at school.
And you'd think that those kids would be. Asshole bullies. Mm-hmm. But what really happened was some of the asshole bullies were in those classes and I think they were embarrassed. Mm. So they didn't bully the teacher. 'cause I don't think they wanted to like, got it.
Zoe: Be going back to the education. My brother, he finesse the system because he could only take college level courses because he was not that smart in [00:08:00] high school.
Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um, he also has a learning disability.
Heather: Dyslexia.
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. He applied to school in Australia because they accept the universities in Australia except college level courses from Canada. Oh.
Heather: So like
Zoe: he still got a university education in Australia, but he had, I didn't know
Heather: he went to school there.
Yeahinteresting.
Zoe: That's why he chose it because like, that's like one of the only places that accept college level courses.
Heather: Was it really expensive school there? I don't think so. No. No. Interesting.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Australia, have you been.
Zoe: I did go right. Yeah. The whole thing. Don't remember it. The whole story. Right, right, right.
Um, but before that, I did bully my French teacher a lot.
Heather: Oh. Why?
Zoe: I feel like it was a thing at elementary or like in public school, but
Heather: definitely in
Zoe: Ontario. I feel like everyone bullied their public, their French teacher.
Heather: Well, I think because French was just such fucking bullshit. Yeah. And like we went into class and learned verbs like we, and then nothing, we never learned [00:09:00] conversational anything.
Yeah. Like, I don't know anyone. If you can speak French now, it's 'cause like you either were an immersion or your parents speak French.
Zoe: Yeah. But no. And to your point, you, you did it from grade one onwards. We were just put into it at grade three. Like why? Yeah. Why grade three?
Heather: We had to do one to one to nine.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And then we could stop. Thank goodness. So then I took like hairstyling and aesthetics. Cute. You did? Yeah. Love that. I was just like, what bird courses can I take and get the fuck outta here? Yeah. Um, do you wanna talk about anal? Sure. Okay. What did you say to me two seconds ago? I said, I think I'm
Zoe: gonna do anal tomorrow.
Heather: It's so exciting. Have you done it?
Zoe: Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: Have you done it sober?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: With her, with
Zoe: the married man. Oh.
Heather: Oh my.
Zoe: He doesn't put it all
Heather: in. Oh yeah. No, there's no way. No, I agreed to it with him. Oh yeah. At first I was like, no, we're not doing [00:10:00] that. But he has a way of like persuading you. And I was like, okay.
Zoe: But like
Heather: just his touch
Zoe: is just so nice that like as soon as his hands were on your body, you're like, yes.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: We didn't do it. 'cause I thought that's what he was talking about.
Heather: And then he is like, I'm not gonna put it in your butt. And I was like, oh. Oh, thank
Zoe: God. I was like, I was ready, I was prepared.
No, we did it in the basement in his house. While his wife is away
Heather: in the basement.
Zoe: Yeah. Is that the first time you hung out? No.
Heather: No,
Zoe: no. That'd be crazy. No, no, no, no.
Heather: How many times have you been to his house?
Zoe: Probably like four times.
Heather: Wow. Yeah. Is it nice? It's nice,
Zoe: but apparently he's in a new house now, but I think him, he's the only guy I've done it with.
Sober. Sounds about
Heather: right. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've only done it. Yeah. I've done it with, with my married guy. Yeah. Sober. But like I've never been able to get, there's like I've been able to get a full rhythm. Yeah. For maybe like. A minute for, no, no, for maybe like [00:11:00] five or six
Zoe: strokes.
Heather: Yeah, yeah. And then I'm like, ha ha.
Yeah. Get outta me. Like I
Zoe: start to panic. I'm more like, ah ha. Ah. And then it feels good for a minute and then I'm like, okay, this is enough now. Yeah. Yeah. It's so
Heather: much. Yeah,
Zoe: it's so intense. It's so emotional. It's so vulnerable. But my friend at the meeting was like last week, she was like, I think I'm gonna do anal tonight.
And I was like, oh my God, good luck. And she texted me after saying that was the best time I highly recommend. And after she texted me that, I'm like, okay, like I have to do this with my boyfriend now. So.
Heather: Oh, okay. That's exciting. So maybe tomorrow, are you gonna prep like butt? I think I'm gonna
Zoe: put a butt plug in and then he's gonna come over like tomorrow at like 10:00 AM and I'll a morning butt plug a morning, I'm gonna wake up and put a right in.
It's probably the best time. You're like,
Heather: just,
Zoe: yeah. You're loosened. I never, never have a morning poop, guys. It's always in the afternoon. My poop comes.
Heather: Oh. I'd be a little more worried about that then.
Zoe: Oh.
Heather: Why don't you poop in the morning? [00:12:00] I don't know. Can we make that happen? I wish I could. No. You know what?
You'll probably, you'll be fine.
Zoe: I've been debating about like taking like a laxative tea.
Heather: Definitely don't do that. Definitely don't do that. Don't do that. It's not worth it. And then also that'll just turn everything to water. Yeah. And then you'll like take the butt, plug out fart and shit yourself.
Zoe: No, but I'm also like when I, whenever he comes over still, like I get like butterflies still, which is really cute.
And when I get butterflies, I poop. So I think I will poop in the morning.
Heather: Okay. Has he ever stayed? What's the longest you guys have been together? Like in one go? Probably four days. Okay. Five days maybe. And do you get constipated during that time? Because he's over?
Zoe: I never, when he's over, I never poop at home.
If we're out to like brunch, I'll poop. Or if we're out and like I get a coffee, I'll like stop in a cafe to poop. Okay. Or if we're shopping like I But not in your house there. Barely. Yeah. My poop gets scared.
Heather: Mine too. Yeah, it's really crazy. I remember my ex, we started dating and like when we started dating, we like.
[00:13:00] Saw each other for a week. Yeah. And I just stayed at his house for like a full
Zoe: week, but when I was drinking, I would be pooping like every second of the day.
Yeah. Maybe
Zoe: because like, I was always doing cocaine, like at least like every few days. So like the cocaine had like baby laxatives in it, so I was always like pooping.
Yeah.
Heather: And
Zoe: alcohol is a lack of, is a laxative. Yeah.
Heather: But, um, when I was with my ex, yeah. We would see each other for, we saw each other for like five days straight when we first started dating. Mm-hmm. And, and I think I was sleeping over and so I was not pooping. Mm-hmm. Like, I was just like, oh my God. I hadn't, I hadn't How could you not poop though if you were drinking?
Because I think anxiety. Yeah. Like, I literally think my body, and he lived in like a, a, a basement studio. Mm. So like the bathroom was next to the bed, next to the kitchen. Mm-hmm. So I'm like, there's no way. And then this one morning, it was like the last morning I was there, I woke up and my stomach was like balloon belly, like I was so bloated.
Yeah. And I was like, oh. And he's like, have you. Pooped. Mm-hmm. Since you've been here. And I was like, no. He's like, oh my [00:14:00] God, he and this was so sweet. He's like, okay, I'm gonna go get coffee. I'm gonna go get something to eat. Yeah. Take your time. Take a shower, poop. Do what you need to do. Which was so nice.
But I didn't, 'cause my body was like, didn't trust it. Yeah. I couldn't
Zoe: do it.
Heather: No. But
Zoe: yeah. But I think I'm just gonna put the book butt plugin, surprise him when he comes home. Like when he gets to my house. Like, what? And like give him like a little bit of like a,
Heather: okay, look at what I have it. Oh
Zoe: my God.
Heather: Yeah.
That's exciting. Yeah. I just, I just
Zoe: got nervous. I know. Mm-hmm.
Heather: And then city
Zoe: and then we'll like, do I think I wanna have sex with the plugin? Have you done that? Yeah. So good. So good. But sometimes it just shoot, I prefer that than like, anal. 100% these girls are who are out here like, loving anal. Like well done, well done.
I couldn't, I don't think it's me. I think I could really want to, I really wanna get there. Do you think that like, but like, I, I don't see myself getting there because
Heather: if it felt really, really good the first time, like yeah, I think your body would want it [00:15:00] more or be like, okay with it. I wonder if like some people, 'cause you know how the clit is actually like massive.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I wonder if like some people's nerves, like clit nerves are closer to their butthole. This is something to ask our sex therapist. Yes. This is something to ask our sex therapist.
Zoe: I think, well, I feel like I'm doing it to get him off. Mm-hmm. Because, and to get me off too, because like, I am like, oh my God, this is so like hot and dirty.
Yeah. And like slutty that like, I'm gonna get off to it. But does
Heather: it feel good or is it just the, the idea? I think it's just the
Zoe: idea of it. Okay. To be honest.
Heather: Okay. Because
Zoe: I love it. Like I said, like there's like one minute where it's like, feels good and other than that it's just like kind of painful.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Except for like, yeah. The butt plug and sex is great. I.
Heather: I think it's a little weird when like guys like to put their tongue in my ass, but then they don't like it. Mm-hmm. I just am like, I don't know. Wouldn't you want it done too if like [00:16:00] you're doing it? It just, it feels like, is it really like an insecurity?
I don't, I feel like some men, like there are some men that I would not do it. No. With a hundred percent. But I am always like, I asked Yeah. The married man, the married guy, I was like, do you like it? Do you want, he's like, it feels fine, but I don't really like, and I'm like, do you have like butthole panic?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Is it, is that what it is? Butthole panic. What is everyone afraid of?
Zoe: I, I think it might just be afraid of being gay. Yeah, I think so. Like if you're afraid of it. 'cause like it feels good for all
Heather: men. Yeah. Right. And I'm a woman and my tongue is in your ass. So Yeah. That's not gay. That's not gay. Yeah.
I do wonder, I also am like, do you think that it's like. Unkempt or something. Like, are you worried? And in that case, we should never disgusting. We should never be unkempt. Yeah. Yeah. We should always be kempt.
Zoe: He's,
Heather: he
Zoe: seems
Heather: like a clean
Zoe: boy. So clean. Yeah. I haven't had the urge to put my tongue in a man's butt hole yet.[00:17:00]
Oh no. Oh, you haven't? Like I would love for you to put your tongue in my man's butt hole so that he gets to experience that. Mm-hmm. And then I don't have to Yeah. Yeah. I could do that for you. I know you can.
Heather: So cute. Okay. I know that's a good friend. Sorry, I have ice in my mouth. No, that I'm a good friend.
I will, I will take one for the team. I haven't done it with this person I'm involved with though. Haven't done it yet. But we've been having weird sex. Yeah. Open relationships. I wanna talk about open relationships. Okay. My idea of open relationships has shifted. Yeah. And I think like from seeing the married man.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think like. I don't know. I feel like I'm evolving, shifting, changing all the time with sobriety and like getting sober. I'm like, oh, I wanna like find somebody. And I was like crying for a year about like, I might be alone for the rest of my life. Like, I don't know how this is, you know I've passed my mm-hmm.
Prime. Yeah. To find somebody. And then I was like, you were telling me about married man and open relationships. And I was like, maybe [00:18:00] that's the vibe. Like I like how cool that is. Mm-hmm. That this married guy that Zoe and I have both hooked up with has a wife. Yeah. And
Zoe: they're open and she's cool about it.
And what now? What are you thinking now? Because like, I do still think, I've always thought it was cool and I always thought that she is dope for like
mm-hmm.
Zoe: Being cool with it. It would be, it's not something I would want right now because their situation. Yeah. She doesn't hook up with anybody else. No, I think it would be.
On par. Like I would want that more. Yeah. If she was hooking up with other guys. Yeah. Like right now I feel a tiny bit bad for her that she's not, because I'm like, take advantage of this whole situation, girl. Right.
Heather: And maybe that's just not fulfilling for her right now. Like, I don't know anything about her.
She seems cool and beautiful, but I know
Zoe: I just am like, I don't know anything about her. I just saw her vagina. So did I, I know I'm
Heather: saying.
Zoe: Oh.
Heather: Oh yeah. [00:19:00] I, uh, I was like, maybe I like the open relationship 'cause it's a cool vibe, but also maybe I'm just like, oh, I don't ever wanna be in a relationship. Yeah.
But that's because I can't get into one, like, you know. Yeah. Like, well,
Zoe: that's kind of how I feel like I was. Mm-hmm. Like I, and I think you were gravitated towards maybe being in an open up relationship, because I always were saying that Yeah. For the past, like what year and a half and. Now I am in a monogamous relationship for now.
Yeah. With the potential of like whatever. But I think that I did like saying that I was gonna maybe be in an open relationship mm-hmm. Because I was afraid of being tied down. Yeah. And afraid of only being with one person for the rest of my life. And I feel like now with my relationship, like we have talked about it potentially being open in the future and like doing things like with or without each other.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, and just like having the talk about [00:20:00] that mm-hmm. And being not jealous and open to a possibility of in the future I think is all that I need.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Um, because like yeah, I look at the married man's relationship and I think like, yeah, it's so cool that they can do that. It's so cool that she has the like, ability to be okay with that.
Yeah. I just don't think I would be able to do that personally as her, unless. I was having sex with other men as well.
Heather: I asked him, what do you think? If I were to ask your wife? Yeah. What do you do to keep her feeling like she's priority? Yeah. Like going out and exhausting all your energy and having sex with whoever you want.
Mm-hmm. How are you showing her? How does she feel secure? 'cause in my brain, I'm like, well, she must be super secure. Yeah. If she's cool with this Yeah. This situation. And he was just like, yeah, I don't know. I, uh, I do things for her and I, you know, she [00:21:00] likes acts of service and she, he didn't name one thing.
No. No. And I was like, okay. Yeah. Okay. And I, there's a little part of me that goes back and forth where I'm like. Can men do it? Can men be in an open relationship? Can women, I don't know, like, I don't know. Is it the same thing for men and women? Like, because having sex with him, I kind of see through the facade of it.
Well, yeah, that's another thing. Like
Zoe: he says the same thing to me and Zoe, like it was fun, like when I was experiencing it, because I didn't know. Yeah. Like I didn't know if he was being real with me or not, like what he was saying. And now I'm like reading Heather and his conversation. Yeah. And it's the same shit that he said to me.
Heather: It's like the fantasy, the lore
Zoe: of
Heather: like, I'll take
Zoe: you to a
Heather: wedding. Yeah. I'll take you on vacation. Exactly. Like da da da da.
Zoe: And don't say that to us. Like, we don't need that. Like, we know this is just sex too. And like,
Heather: yeah.
Zoe: Honestly, you're not. I mean, you're, you're an amazing guy, but like, we know, I [00:22:00] don't wanna ever be in a relationship with you.
I don't ever wanna marry you. No. This is not gonna be long term. I don't want you. Yeah. I want you dick.
Heather: Well, and that's the thing I'm like, is the fantasy and the like, I'll take you here, I'll bring you here. Is that for me? I think it's Or is that for him? It might be for him, yeah. Because does he like, do you think the fact that he can say that to girls and then never actually have to follow through, like it's just a fantasy?
Maybe. I think it's a dangerous game the way he plays though. Because, well, and then
Zoe: that's like, and then he gets mad that some people, 'cause he has told me about girls that have gotten obsessed with him. Mm-hmm. And that he needs to like, like they call him all the time or whatever, and he needs to cut it off.
I'm like, well then why are you playing this lore of
Heather: this game? That's the thing. I'm like, you're dating me. Yeah. Like you're taking me to dinner and you're like calling me, whatever. But he is actually calling me the exact same thing. He call or actually calling me Zoe. But I don't know. Anyway, not to say he's great.
His, he's great. I mean, he's so good at sex and he is so hot. And it's so fun. Yeah. [00:23:00] But it does make me think about open relationships kind of more.
Zoe: Yeah. Well, I do think that like his situation just seems crazy to me because she doesn't take the opportunity to
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Do an open relationship with her like herself.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: She's not exploring other men. So I'm like, I think that if me and my boyfriend were to do it, it would have to be both of us. Going and exploring other people. It wouldn't just be me. Like, I can't, I can't be out here fucking other guys. Him not fucking anyone else. Yeah. Like I'd feel bad for him if I was doing that.
You know? It would be crazy.
Heather: Crazy. Yeah. It would
Zoe: feel so cocky. Yeah.
Heather: Do you, would you have any, you did call her a cook yesterday? No. I, I, I asked, I'm like, is is she the coolest, most chill person ever? Yeah. Or is she a cook? Yeah. Like, I don't know. Yeah. Because there's another part of it that could be like, what if she and not her is into it?
Like, what [00:24:00] if Yeah. No, no, no. What if, what if she just is obsessed with him, like, loves him so dearly. Yeah. And this is the way he wants to live and the way to keep him is to let him do that. I'm like, could that be? 'cause that's how I would be. I feel like that might be it, but if not, and they just have like an interesting relat then all the power to Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But I don't think I want it.
Zoe: I think, well, you don't think you want him. And that's like a revelation that I think that is Has made been made as well. I fully said it to his face. Yeah. I was like,
Heather: oh, I could never be with you. Yeah. Like something happened and I was like, or just like a hobby that he has.
Yeah. I was like, oh my God, this is why, like, we can't get too far into this. Yeah. Because I'm going to learn too much about you and then Yeah. And then I'm not gonna actually like having sex with you. Yeah. Yeah. But for the time being, it was beautiful. Beautiful. But did rearrange my organs. Yeah. Um, speaking of open relationships, Coldplay.
Yeah. The Coldplay concert where Yeah. [00:25:00] This, this CEO, this just gentleman mm-hmm. Was caught with the, this female gentleman. This female hr. Yeah. The CEO was caught with his, with his HR department, head of HR at the cold play concert. Yeah. Which is so crazy. It was just on the so crazy. The jumbo tron, is that what you call it?
Yeah, the jumbo char. It was just like going couple to couple and then it was them and they looked like they, they were having a great romantic night. If you didn't see the video, they see everyone in their grandma's have seen this video. Yeah. But if you haven't, go watch. I don't, my sister's not on TikTok.
So Karen, what happened is he, they see themselves on the jumbotron and they both like, he drops to the floor and she like Skedaddles. Yeah. She takes a hard Larry. And I'm like, holy shit. Holy shit. And then I was just thinking, I'm like, this is crazy. Because now your wife is gonna know. Everyone's gonna know.
And that's why I'm thinking about open relationships. I'm like, well maybe if you guys have just talked about it. Yeah. And then like, I'm not great in my like sex life right now or love [00:26:00] life and I wanna date the HR woman. I don't know. It just getting caught. You're going to get caught. I think that everyone
Zoe: should like communication.
Could save a marriage. Yeah. Like that marriage could have been fine if someone was just talking about how they felt in their sex. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. In their sex life, that's all that needed to happen. Clearly he wasn't being fulfilled and searched it somewhere else. You know? If he just talked to his wife, maybe the wife had to do a little bit freaker shit, or maybe she would be like, oh, you know what, honey, I don't wanna do that.
If you do wanna explore this romantic connection that you have, then go
Heather: ahead. Or she would be like, fuck you, I hate you so much. That hurts my feelings. And now we're done. And now we're done. But what did Atlanta say yesterday? Our friend said like, play stupid games. Win stupid prizes. Yeah. It's like, yeah.
Like you went in public. Yeah. And, and yeah. What are the
Zoe: chances that you're gonna be like on the jumbo tron? But that must have hap like, it can't be the first time that someone's been on the jumbotron who was cheating. Like that can't be the [00:27:00] first time.
Heather: No way.
Zoe: It's just like how they reacted is like.
Obnoxious rookie. Yeah. Such a rookie mistake. So rookie. But also, yeah, like I, if I was cheating, I would never step anywhere public.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: That is so stupid. It's so intense and naive and like you obviously just wanted to get caught, so like
Heather: congratulations. I mean, unless they were there in like a one of the booths, like as a company or something.
Yeah. But like, yeah, doubtful.
Zoe: They would've
Heather: said that, you know what? It also kind of shows me whoever was beside her, like her friend. Yeah. I wonder if anyone at the company knows. And the answer is yes. Because as someone who's had an affair with a married man mm-hmm. I told a lot of people. Yeah. So people know.
Yeah. And it's just like,
Zoe: or was she like getting in on it too? Were they having a threesome with her, the wife, the third, the friend?
Heather: Oh, probably not. I feel like that age man doesn't know how to do that. Mm. Yeah. He didn't look like he'd be good. Just like. Uh, it just like hurts to get cheated on and on [00:28:00] such a grand, grander level.
A hundred percent. It's so, but yeah, again, if they had just like acted like nothing, if they were just like, oh, whatever, on the jumbotron, it would've been fine. Do you
Zoe: think that them going out in public, while they're both cheating on their partners, do you think they get like a rise out of that? Do you think that like, turns them on even more?
Heather: Well, you know what it tells me, it
Zoe: tells
Heather: me that they've been having an affair for some time now. Mm-hmm. Like maybe years. Because you don't go in public. Yeah. You get, but you do get desensitized over time or you get used to it. You're like, oh, it's fine. Like, I probably won't see that person. You're right.
You know, there's however many, like thousands and thousands of people here. What are the chances? I mean, pretty big chances. Yeah. Every time we go to like a basketball game, okay. We've been to one basketball game together. But like, anytime I've ever been to a a game, I see somebody I know.
Zoe: Yeah. Exactly.
NEPA knows so
Heather: many people.
Zoe: Toronto is so small, like mm-hmm. I always see someone I know like walking down the street. Yeah. You know, I mean, this
Heather: is the birthplace of Ashley Madison, so we do love a cheater over [00:29:00] here.
Mm.
Heather: Well we don't, but we get it. Yeah. Open relationship, open relationships. I just, I do think that we've evolved into such a two people operation.
I just don't know. I, I actually don't know what the, like human nature is, if it's to couple up or if it's to be non-monogamous. I don't really know. Well, I think
Zoe: the original way was to be non-monogamous, and then when, um, religion came in, that's when we were supposed to be with one man.
Heather: Oh, it was the religion?
Yeah. Well, 'cause before it was like one man with a bunch of women and that's why our cycles sync up. Mm-hmm. So that they can like plant their seed all over and build a community.
Zoe: Yeah. Like the men were allowed, I'm sure the women were allowed to before reli. I think religion is what fucked it all up and like made it, I wonder women were ever allowed
Heather: to do things.
I wonder if there if women were ever like not having to be allowed, if they were just like, yeah, I can just be me, do my
Zoe: thing. Or do you have to ask permission? I mean, right now [00:30:00] I feel like we're allowed to do whatever the fuck we want unless what happened yesterday?
Heather: Yesterday we went, we had our nice little meditation.
I know I'm backtracking, sorry guys, but I, after that I was gonna hang out with this person. I had expressed to this person that I'm involved with that I'm going to have an extremely busy weekend. Yeah. Coming off an extremely busy week. And usually I don't book everything. Like usually I have one of the weekend days off.
Mm-hmm. To chill and do nothing. But I have a baby shower tomorrow. Oh, you have a baby shower tomorrow? I didn't know. Yeah, I didn't know that. And I'd already kind of talked to this person about our relationship in general and like I'm trying to figure out. How to prioritize myself and the things that are important to me like you and this.
And friendships and wellness. Mm-hmm. Plus a guy. Yeah. And I'm
Zoe: like, I really like you, but like he's always gonna come last and that priority list.
Heather: Yeah. And it doesn't mean you come
Zoe: last and you're the bottom of the barrel of life. Yeah. [00:31:00] It's just like there are things that are, no, my boyfriend definitely comes less towards like my job this and Yeah.
Like this is being a relationship with you, you know? Yeah. And
Heather: as an addict, I do have to make clear priorities in my life. Yeah. Or I sit in my room and I don't come outside. Yeah. And I've been doing a good job. However, there isn't a lot for him left. Mm-hmm. Or there's not a lot. There's not what he would be used to and what he
Zoe: wants.
Heather: I don't have it. He wants
Zoe: a woman at his beck and call. Yeah. Well then that's just it. You're not his woman then. Or like, I know. He said like, okay, that's fine. Yeah. But then the way he acted yesterday. Shows that he's not fine with it.
Heather: Well, yesterday, it was yesterday, we invited him to
Zoe: dinner,
Heather: we invited him to dinner, and then I said something like, it's just gonna be a quick hang.
And to him, uh, that was like, I, I don't, I, I'll, I'll give you a little bit of time, but like, I don't really wanna hang out with you. [00:32:00] And I was just like, I, in that moment he just like read
Zoe: too much into it. He did. And in
Heather: that moment I was already at fucking max capacity and that's my problem. Mm-hmm. My problem is that I told you mm-hmm.
I told you I was gonna have a busy week. Yeah. And now you're stressing me the fuck out after we just did a fucking wellness thing. And I'm like, why are you doing that? Just wait till tomorrow. Don't do that. Don't be baby. I can't handle it right now.
Yeah.
Heather: It, when I was dating my ex from Central America, he would do the same shit.
Yeah. I would have an audition and he would break up with me the night before. Yeah. And he would do that. To like on, I don't know what his perspective was, but I wouldn't go to the audition 'cause I'd be up all night crying. I think they just, yeah. They need
Zoe: the most, I number one do you know, important thing is them.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Or to just like have some control over you.
Heather: Yeah. And I, I sure. But that just isn't the way
Zoe: it is and, well, it's just like, it's very high [00:33:00] school. It's very like toxic. It's very like not mature at all. Especially because you said everything that you needed from him. Mm-hmm. You know, you said it was gonna be a busy week.
You told him you wanted to like, take a little bit of a step back from the relationship because you can't give him all that you Yeah. Want to when you are in a relationship because you want to be a good girlfriend when you get there.
Heather: Yeah. It's hard because I'm like, how do I, I can't, I can't do anything else.
I'm like, how do I make you feel more secure? You can't, he needs to be secure with himself. Yeah. The way to make him more secure is to lessen the priority on me. Yeah. And I'm not fucking doing that. And that's like a, a real gift I've given to myself, honestly, as a sober person, I'm like, no, no, no. I come first.
Yeah, this comes first. Friends come first. Exactly. Men. And I
Zoe: think
Heather: that
Zoe: like, it will just like be a good way to see how we react now in the future. Yeah. You know, because clearly he understood. What he did wrong yesterday. Like he knows that he fucked [00:34:00] up yesterday. He apologized to me and to you. Mm-hmm.
And to the group. Like he knows that he fucked up, but it's like, if that happens again, then like, okay, you're not gonna learn from your mistakes. He was nervous
Heather: to come back over to the group. Good. He better be. Yeah. And I was like, it's fine. It's Zoe. Yeah. She, she, she doesn't care. Just apologize. Like whatever.
And then he did. And then I liked that you were like, it's fine. Don't do it again. Yeah. Because it's fucking true. And I like that you said that and it's like, well, I think I said like, yeah, what the fuck was that? Yeah, you did. Yeah. I was like, yeah, what was that? Yeah. Like you can't do that shit. No. And it's good to have like an outer perspective be like, Hey, hi Uhuh.
Yeah. Like that's not just between you two. Yeah. What you did was crazy. Yeah. And you And he put me in a fucking mood and then I didn't even talk to our other friend. Yeah. 'cause I was just like, uh, now I'm pissed. Yeah. And I'm like trying so hard to. Chill my nervous system out. Yeah. So that I can be a good girlfriend and so that when I have sex, I don't throw up.
But you now are getting in the way of my chill [00:35:00] and that's not gonna go over so well.
Zoe: You should be feeling like so comfy and Yeah. So like chill and light and not stressed with someone you love.
Heather: Like does having a boyfriend, literally me, that I have to talk to them every single day.
Zoe: But it means that you should want to talk to them every single day.
And I do.
Heather: I do. But
Zoe: sometimes I wanna be meditating. I mean, before me and my boyfriend started d dating, I was like, I was like, oh, I don't wanna call him tonight. Like I don't wanna talk to him tonight. Mm-hmm. Like kind of dreading a FaceTime at the end of like the day. Yeah. And then it, everything switched for me and I got like.
I'm now really sad if he can't call me at the end of the day. Yeah. Because I'm like, Aw. Like he's busy playing softball with his friends and can't talk to me. Like, you know, the thing about that is
Heather: like I was in a relationship with my married guy mm-hmm. For two years and he couldn't call me at night.
Yeah. So that's not my normal, like, my normal is to a 6:00 AM phone call [00:36:00] midday, and then nighttime. I don't hear from him all night. And so now being in this new relationship where my, you know, um, partner is not in the prison of a marriage mm-hmm. I'm not expecting him to be like calling me or like avail or wanting to talk to me.
'cause sometimes he calls me and I go, what's this about?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And he's just like, Hey, what's up? I'm like,
Zoe: what's going on? Like, I think there's just lots of things that you and him need to talk about. Yeah. And work through still before you guys can like, be seriously dating again. You know, like Yeah.
There's just a lot of, a lot of stuff and clearly you want. To make it work with him like you do.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: It's just like, and he is a great guy. Like, yeah, he fucked up yesterday. Yeah, we all fuck up. We all make mistakes. But just know that if he does that again, I will be yelling more than I did yesterday.
Heather: I think.
I really do think, and Zoe, honestly, I like it though, but I do, I feel like, um, it is hard. He keeps saying this to me that like, [00:37:00] I like you more than you like me. Mm-hmm. Which is like kind of true. Mm-hmm. But that doesn't mean I don't like him a lot. Yeah. He's just further along with his feelings and I am because he is like, I'm a lover girl.
He's what? He's lover boy. Lover boy. Yeah. Yeah. And like things that I say can't be misconstrued in your head to me being like, to me attacking you or not wanting to hang out with you or something like that. It's like. Just tell me how you felt like Yeah. It doesn't have to be this whole like, emotional guilt trip.
Well, yeah. He, like,
Zoe: he, he definitely guilt tripped yesterday. Yeah. But also like, this is your first relationship being sober. Yeah. So like, this is your first relationship, I'm gonna say ever. You know, like this is the first one that actually counts. Yeah. So like, he needs to give you more grace 'cause you really still are figuring the shit out.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Like you are only two years sober. Mm-hmm. He's been in relationships. He hasn't had an addiction. Like he, I mean, I mean, yeah. [00:38:00] But yeah, he, he does understand mental health though. Like, he's been through his own and he is open with his mental health stuff, but he, but like, he will never, he will never understand.
Um, alcoholism or like how you felt, you know? Yeah. So like he needs to give you some more grace and like let you be on the, your timeframe of whenever you want.
Heather: Yeah. I imagine it's like scary to feel like, oh, do they like me as much, but I'm like, just chill out. Like, I like you. But again, if it's too much for him mm-hmm.
He needs
Zoe: to back off.
Heather: Well that's the other thing, like no matter how great any man is, it is not, they are not great enough for you to not prioritize yourself. Yeah. No man is great enough to be above you in the priority list. Yeah. It's just not. Yeah. Because now you're living for him and you have to be able to live for yourself.
And if you can't handle me living for myself and like figure this out with me, then you gotta go. 'cause I'm never going to
Zoe: myself in a load. You're not gonna drop everything and then like hang out with [00:39:00] him every single day like he wants you to do. No,
Heather: and he's not asking me to do that. But he's used to that
Zoe: and he, I'm sure he kind of would prefer that.
Let's be real. I'm sure. I mean, who wouldn't wanna
Heather: hang out with me
Zoe: every day? Exactly. I'm a goddamn gem. Of course. But like he needs to understand that that will never happen. Like
Heather: mm-hmm.
Zoe: Even if my boyfriend moves here. Yeah. I'm not gonna hang out with him every single day. No. Fuck no. We got shit going on.
We got a lot of shit going on.
Heather: Yeah. But that's that. Okay, well let's move on. Um, okay. Well Zoe and I have been discussing this because now that it's summer Yeah, it's festival season, concerts, what goes on at concerts and as sober people. Mm-hmm. It's kind of like interesting to watch people doing all their drugs, doing all their drinking, trying to enjoy a concert.
We have like one specific person that Zoe and I got into a debate about Charlie XCX who just got married. Congratulations. She just got married. Oh my god. DJ and Charlie [00:40:00] XCX. You guys are on the same Yes. Vibe. Fuck. Yeah. Same vibration. Same vibration. This is very exciting. Maybe they should do a, a dual wedding.
Well, Charlie is already married so they can't do that. Right. I just said she's married. Yeah. Okay. Charlie XCX brat Summer, last summer. Album cover is a dime bag in her music. She's very much promoting the use of drugs. Yeah. Drugs, probably cocaine, Molly acid, all the drugs come in a dime bag, you know, like the, the fun drugs.
Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: As does fentanyl. Yeah.
Zoe: Now we got into an argument at the pool last week.
Heather: Yeah. And kind of about whether or not she should be doing that. Yeah. And Charlie X, CX, it's not mu, it's not exclusive to her. Mm. It just came up. However, it did lead to interesting conversations because we're talking about it because she's a woman.
Zoe: I think it's just the type of [00:41:00] music Yeah. That she's creating is so new. Mm-hmm. To everybody. Because like rave music hasn't really been mainstream. Right. Except for DJ's like dubstep or I don't know, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
Zoe: This new music that she made last year was really revolutionary and I think. Everyone was listening to it.
So everyone was commenting on the drug use aspect. And I know I've talked a lot about it with my friends because my one friend can't even listen to it because she's sober and she doesn't like consuming that type of music anymore. Yeah. Because that's the type of music she would listen to while she was getting ready, while she was doing Coke and doing her makeup before she went out.
Heather: Do you think for her that's all rave music or like, I mean like specifically I think
Zoe: it's like all music that implies doing drugs.
Heather: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are some like songs, I'm trying to think of, oh, just like dumb shit. Like Starships, Nicki Minaj. Yeah. That era of my life mm-hmm. Was just like that music and drinking and when it comes on I get this like [00:42:00]
Zoe: feeling.
I don't think that. I associate any songs to like getting fucked up necessarily. Maybe it's because I never really like, like I listen to music. Yeah. Am I a big avid music listener? No. Yeah. Like I'm honestly not. Like when I'm hanging out in my, in my apartment, I'm not listening to music. I'm listening to podcasts.
Heather: Yeah. I'm not an avid music listener. Yeah. Either. And it is just an interesting thing because I find with the younger generation, I don't know what I was gonna say, but I do feel like there is a lot of drug use with the younger generation. Yeah. I think there was this idea that like the Gen Z there, they aren't drinking, they aren't having sex.
But I think that's like a, A portion, it's naive
Zoe: to think that like no one's gonna be doing drugs anymore. Yeah. You know, like of course they're gonna be doing drugs and Charlie XCX is promoting, like going out partying and doing coke. Mm-hmm. Like that's just now a part of going out and partying. Yeah. And now like.
Coke is just [00:43:00] there.
Heather: Well, and the question is like, is and there's like
Zoe: clips of her like going underneath her DJ set to do lines.
Heather: Okay. Like
Zoe: it's very evident of what she's doing.
Heather: Yeah. And the question is like, is that appropriate? Should she be doing that? Yeah.
Zoe: I said probably not. Yeah. And I just said that like I think it's been evident throughout the culture forever.
Yeah. Like men have been talking about smoking weed forever. Yeah. Weed and cocaine. Yeah, sure. Cocaine's a little bit of a harder drug, but they're the same thing.
Heather: Yeah. At the
Zoe: end of the day.
Heather: But, okay, so Charlie xx promoting drug use, the question is, should she And Yeah. W we have to point out the fact that she is a woman and it's like we're having this conversation.
Well, I think like the media is
Zoe: getting mad at her for promoting drug use. Right. Because she's a woman.
Heather: As addicts as people who've been [00:44:00] to rehab. Yeah. We've been told don't glamorize drug use. Yeah. Don't
Zoe: glamorize alcohol use.
Heather: It can lead to relapse in meetings.
Zoe: Even they say like, don't glamorize like your horror stories.
Yeah. Like don't focus on the stories of the past, like focus on your stories of today.
Heather: Yeah. And basically glamorizing means like, oh my God, I love to just sit on my couch and drink this. Which I do do, but also, you know. Yeah. It's a real experience and podcast. Yeah. Yeah. But you, with your, you know, with your, with your, uh, addict friends, you're not supposed to be like, oh my God, did you ever do this?
And how good did that feel? 'cause it's just not good if someone's going through, like, it's going hospitality, going back it
Zoe: to that time of like, yeah, it felt good and like, yeah, it felt good, but it ended up here, you know? Yeah. You can't forget Yeah. The consequences of it. For sure.
Heather: And so I was like, yeah.
Like I'm, I know I'm not supposed to do that. I should not be promoting drugs. But Charlie X six is, hasn't come out, but not a drug addict. Yeah. And so. If you're not a drug addict, I don't know if you know that you're [00:45:00] not supposed to glamorize drugs, but also is that her responsibility? Because the other thing is, as an addict, my addiction is my responsibility.
Exactly. And like it's
Zoe: not gonna, if you're gonna become an addict or not, listening to music isn't gonna change that. Yeah. And there's so many other types of music that people can listening to that do promote drugs. If it's not Charlie, it's gonna be something else that someone's listening to. Like it's all around, it's part of that type of music.
And if people like that type of music, they're gonna listen to it. Yeah. It's not just Charlie. And Charlie shouldn't just be getting blamed because she's a woman. Yeah. Putting a dime bag on an album cover is a little bit like shocking. Yeah. But it's like everyone already knows. So it's like putting it out there, like it's not beating around the bush, which I do like that she's straight up.
Yeah. About it. Yeah. She's not like, oh yeah. Like. I don't do coke. Ha ha. At least she's being honest and saying that she's out here partying and doing cocaine.
Heather: Yeah. [00:46:00] It, it is. Because like, there again, like what you said, like there's always been drug use in music. Yeah. And like, I mean, rap is about drugs and strippers.
Strippers, and $1 bills we're so connected. One $1 bills, strippers and wrappers, and $1 bills. Hmm. Life, the life, the life Someone needs to put me to bed, put you in the corner. Um, there's always been reference to things like, and even worse things. Like, remember when Eminem did that song with Rihanna, whatever that is called, and he's like, I'm gonna piss on you and then set your house on fire.
Yeah. And I'm
Heather: like, Hey,
Zoe: chill out. He was clearly talking about like abusing women. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's just like. But also if he did that song now, like that wouldn't be appropriate. Okay. Like that, you know, like that was just that time that
Heather: he got away with songs like that. It didn't feel appropriate at that time.
Like it didn't, yeah. I remember listening to the lyrics and being like, this is [00:47:00] fucking, like, I would sing that in the car with my dad. Yeah. And being like, this is literally crazy. I kind of loved it. That's where me and you differ. Yeah. I think I, oh, you know why though? 'cause I was already dealing with a violent man in my life.
What is it called? Love the way you lie. Love
Zoe: the way you lie.
Heather: I feel like it was weird. Yeah. Let's talk about that situation specifically. To me, it was weird when Rihanna got beat up by Chris Brown and then they came back to, they started making music again together. She did the album, she did the SNM album.
I remember being a kid and not having like any idea, but I remember being like, this is weird. Why would she do a song about SNM? And I was in high school, so I didn't know anything. Yeah. But I'm like, why would she do a song about s and m when she just got like beat up a few years ago? Yeah. No, I
Zoe: always
Heather: thought that was
weird
Zoe: too.
And I'm, I always was like, Kate. He beat her up though. Yeah. Like, and also like Rihanna, come on. But I think it's also like, that was the time 10 years ago and I, everyone thinks that time has passed now that it's
Heather: fine. That kind of thing when now she's [00:48:00] going back and making music with him. And I never would blame a victim, but, and then the Eminem song, it's like we've been desensitizing ourselves to things we didn't think we would.
Yeah. And so now when someone for jury members can watch Cassie Ventura be beat the fuck up in a hotel hallway. That's not enough. Yeah. To, to say that he's a bad man 'cause we've been desensitizing. Oh. Like that's just what rap guys do. Rap guys and their girlfriends. Yes. So when we talk about drug use Yeah.
When we desensitize ourselves to drug use, is that the same thing? Yeah. Kind. Maybe. Well,
Zoe: it's all in, it's all of Hollywood, right? Yeah. Like everyone just does drugs and goes out and parties and that's just the thing that they do.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: And why are they now getting mad at Charlie? Mm-hmm. A woman for putting a dime bag on her album cover.
Heather: Yeah. It's like, this is the system that I was brought up and why would I not be doing this? Exactly. [00:49:00]
Zoe: I think, and like you guys are all been doing it times wor like times a hundred. Yeah. And you guys, no, not even. You have been doing it times a hundred and you guys have just been lying about it. So why don't I just put it right, yeah.
There. Yeah. And display it because everyone fucking knows it already. Yeah.
Heather: And that's it. Also too, the like the other thing with with music is like the cheating aspect. Like there's always like talking about cheating, things like that. I just, it's like created this culture of like, everyone in Hollywood is cheating on each other.
And I'm like, I think it is the desensitization. Mm-hmm. The like wanting more, more, more.
Zoe: Yeah. And it can never be enough. But I do think that it has been changing a little bit now. Mm-hmm. Like even four years ago to now, it has been getting better and the mainstream music isn't as saturated with violence abuse.
Cheating drugs, like it has been gotten better and like Charlie's music is uplifting and like [00:50:00] inspirational to women to like, Hey, get up party. Have a good time with your girls. Yeah, sure. She maybe should have like A-P-S-A-P-S-A about like, Hey, drugs are bad. Like if you are addicted, call this number. Or put money towards, yeah.
Rehabs and stuff like that. Like she should be donating money to rehab if she is gonna be talking so explicitly about drugs. But at the same time, men have been doing this shit forever and I'm sure they haven't gone and done that. No, but like also men suck, so what are they gonna do?
Heather: They haven't done it.
Yeah. Or they have been doing that forever. That's also not like, that is the same thing. It's the same thing. Don't think it's getting worse. Yeah, it's not worth,
Zoe: yeah. We're not just gonna excuse the behavior.
Heather: No. Yeah. But it has been excused. Yeah. And so like, why not excuse Charlie, but it's being brought up so we gotta talk about it.
Mm-hmm.
Heather: But I, I wonder there, what you just said is like, maybe there should be a PA PSA, like that sounds so lame, but what is the [00:51:00] responsibility to your fans, right? Yeah. Like if Charlie is not an addict, you're promoting drug use. I'm assuming that Charlie is not doing the same drugs that I was doing.
Yeah. Like she's getting the good drugs. She's in la she's not doing the drugs that they're doing on Skid Row. Yeah. That's not happening. Or, or just like anyone. Mm-hmm. You know, they're getting cleaner drugs. They're getting, they know their sources. They're paying a lot of money for it. So it's like, yeah, let's do Coke.
I'm gonna do this. That was made in a lab. Mm-hmm. And you can do that off of Benjamin who's not wearing pants and he's holding a boa constrictor. Exactly. And, and that's not the same. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, I'm gonna, there's such a privilege in doing drugs. Mm-hmm. Such a privilege in knowing that like, if I do and doing safe drugs.
Yeah. Yeah. There really is. So I feel a little bit weird about promoting drugs, especially when it's not gonna be the same. It's not, it's not gonna be the same drugs. She's not supplying the drugs to her. Yeah. Concert
Zoe: goers, I think. Yeah. I think obviously a PSA [00:52:00] is lame, but like having some sort. Charity or something that she's giving back towards addiction.
Heather: If you're gonna be talking about drugs so explicitly, then you should probably have some sort of something in place with information. Yeah.
Zoe: I never even knew what addiction was.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Fully.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Yeah. And like I think that her just explaining what addiction is. Yeah. Could be cool because I fully didn't know what it was.
Yeah. Until I got to rehab and like learned what it was.
Heather: You are like really gonna have a person who's currently doing drugs come out and tell you the dangers of doing drugs.
Zoe: I don't know, but like it seems like she only does drugs for fun, or at least that's what she's saying to everybody. Yeah. Which.
Wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't that be nice? Crazy. There has been like some talk of that she is a drug addict, but like that's
Heather: Well, that wouldn't be
Zoe: surprising. That wouldn't be surprising. And, and when we talk about the culture that's exactly right. It's like, because like yeah. It's fun [00:53:00] for a couple years and then one day you wake up and you're like, oh wait, I wanna do drugs at 8:00 AM in the morning.
You know?
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: It is a slippery slope to be doing cocaine at every party you go to. Yeah. It's gonna slip into the mornings. Yes, it will. And then it's gonna slip into your everyday life. Mm-hmm.
Heather: It really, really will. And that's my fear, right? It's like, kids are kids, kids are impressionable, everyone's impressionable.
You know, like people could be 30 and they've been to, they've never been to a Charlie XCX concert and they go and everyone's doing drugs and it's like, well, maybe this is the time I'm gonna try something.
Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: I know people, I know a girl who worked in a safe injection site mm-hmm. Did a line of cocaine at a party and it was fentanyl and she died.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Like, it, it's just like you're, it doesn't matter. How smart you think you are. Yeah. Drugs are drugs and they're not coming from your own lab in your basement. Like they're coming from somewhere else. And it makes me nervous. It makes me nervous. Raves are also somewhere a lot of people go to like fit in and like feel good and [00:54:00] dance and things like that.
And I just don't, I don't love, but
Zoe: the rave that I went to promotion. Yeah. Like Electric Island. I went, what, two weekends ago now? Like that's a rave. And all the security guards were coming over to everybody if they were sitting down, like me and my boyfriend were just sitting down taking a break from standing up on our feet all day long.
Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Um, and they came around to all of us being like, Hey, are you okay? Do you need some water? What's up? And we're like, yeah, we're fine. We're sober.
Mm.
Zoe: But it was nice to see that they actually were attentive to the people in the crowds Yeah. And how they were feeling because Yeah, I'm sure everyone was on drugs that night.
Yeah. In the heat. In the heat. Like there needs to be safe. Things set up at these outdoor Yeah. Raves or concerts. Mm-hmm. To ensure that everyone that is on drugs are gonna be safe.
Heather: That's exactly right. You know what it's like this is going to be happening at the concert. Yeah. What can we do? What can we put in place to keep people safe?
Yeah. 'cause it is a lot of safe people at these raves, right? Yeah. Like, people are going to [00:55:00] have fun,
Zoe: but, and like, they're not gonna be able to stop people from doing drugs. No. But like the drugs are always gonna be there. Same with Charlie talking about drugs. Like, people are always gonna be talking about drugs.
Yeah. In a nuanced way. Mm-hmm. Um, in music.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: It's just like. Maybe you should put something in place to warn your audience. Mm-hmm. That, hey, this could go sideways if you're not careful.
Heather: Yeah. I think sometimes the argument is like, well, these are artists. They're not here to be our teachers. They're not here to guide, but they
Zoe: have so much influence.
Influence, yeah. Yeah. That like they need to, even if it, yeah. They can produce art, like I'm saying, not saying that you need to stop making music like that. Mm-hmm. Because the music's incredible. I love listening to Charlie X Exel. It's just like putting something in place to warn the consumer of what it, what drugs do.
Yeah.
Heather: I think like once you become a pub, a public figure, there is responsibility in place. Yeah. And even you can say like, no, I don't have, I don't have any [00:56:00] responsibility here. But when you're on such a global level mm-hmm. And you're influencing so many people, it's naive to think that you don't have any responsibility.
It's super naive and it's super. Ignorant. Yeah. In the same way with Travis? With Travis Scott? Yeah. At the Astroworld tour. Yeah. He, after the documentary, or during the documentary, he says, they ask him, you know, do you have any guilt about this? Mm-hmm. Like people are saying it's your fault. And he's straight up said like, I'm the artist.
The venue's got the venue. Like the crew is handling that. I know. I just do my art. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Take some fucking accountability. Yeah. You create the vibe. Yeah. You are an artist. Sure. And I get that. That's a very personal form of work and art, but you've also created a following and.
An entire generation of people who love you. Yeah. Make them feel safe.
Yeah.
Heather: Travis Scott, so many fucking people died at his
Zoe: concert and like, how [00:57:00] could you not? Like you gotta see the crowd. Yeah. And like, I'm sure he likes when the crowd gets like fucking pumped up like that. Yeah. But like, you can't be naive to not know what's going on in that fucking crowd.
Like, it's your people, it's your, this is all of your making. The crowd wouldn't be there without you. It's your fault.
Heather: Well, like, um, I remember Brad Paisley, I think when he like came to Ottawa, they were in town and where I grew up, it's a lot of cowboys and so all of the cowboys went to watch and that concert.
Mm-hmm. It's so much beer. Mm. It's so much like weird cowboys who live not on the farm. It gets a lot of like that. Aggression or vibe and they come together and then they drink beer and they fight each other. Mm. Or like slap some girl's ass and then there's fights. There were so many fights when he came to town.
'cause it's just like that's the culture Weird. That he's like created weird and that's not necessarily his fault. Yeah. But he also could say, Hey, at my concerts people punch each other so we're gonna [00:58:00] get more security. Yeah. Yeah. Travis Scott should have been like, Hey, this looks fucking dangerous. Mm-hmm.
Maybe get lines painted on the ground or like ropes or something. Like, we have Charlie XCX promoting drugs and not, you know, not talking about the dangers of it. Yeah. It's like, yeah, you're not the president, but you do have a lot of influence more so than the president.
Zoe: Yeah. I think it's just like people need to start taking accountability and putting, like, if you know something's gonna.
You know that you, that talking about cocaine is gonna make someone who wants to go out and party and listen to your music. Try cocaine.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Like explain what, don't wanna explain what Coke is, but like
Heather: do something. Yeah. It's such an interesting conversation to me, honestly, because I don't understand, like, I don't know the feeling of doing drugs and being like, that was great.
I'm good. Yeah. I don't have that. [00:59:00] And a lot of people don't have that. Like Demi Lovato or Beebs or Amanda Bines. It's like, yeah. Amy Winehouse. Yeah. It's weird to me that it's like you're in the same industry. You're all talking about drugs and some of your. Peers mm-hmm. Are like dying off or like in rehab all the time.
And it just, it's such an interesting thing. You think that that community would come together and be like, Hey, we've
Zoe: got a
Heather: problem in the industry.
Zoe: Well, they like the effects of it so much. Yeah. Like, I understand like, fucking doing cocaine is amazing, you know? Yeah. And having that, like they wanna try to control it and hopefully they don't become an addict or hopefully they don't die on the toilet.
You know? Like Yeah. It's also the people that they surround themselves with, they obviously aren't good people.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Who are supporting them. Yeah. To the best of their ability. Did you see that? Like Miley Cyrus was saying that she doesn't wanna do a tour for her new album because it will trigger [01:00:00] her because she used to get fucked up on tour so much.
Oh, yay. That like she's not gonna do that and she's putting her sobriety first. Aw. Which like, I think is so fucking cool. That's amazing. Go back to how like you are putting your sobriety Yeah. Before anything. And like I've been putting my sobriety first, so like Yeah. If she can't tour, she can't tour. All of her fans are like now sad that she's not gonna tour, obviously, but like, come on.
Yeah. She's saying that she can't do it. That's also, and now everyone's saying that she should do a residency instead of touring because at least she can like stay in one spot and still perform. Where should she do a residency? Toronto.
Heather: Oh, I mean, yeah, that
Zoe: would be fun. I would love to go see Miley Cyrus.
Me too. I would love it. We would have to get
Heather: good seats where I'm not touching anybody's sweaty body. Or we can, we can go and I'll hold you from behind. And then if we get on the jumbotron, we'll, perfect.
Zoe: Yes. And then our boyfriends will be so pissed at us. If we get on the jumbotron, we'll just kiss us.
And then our boyfriends will
Heather: have to accept it. Well, they'll also have to kiss. Yeah. I just like really do wonder what it feels like because I had a [01:01:00] superiority complex and so did you, I assume. Mm-hmm. When we were drinking and it's like, I can handle this, I can do whatever. And I imagine if you're a star mm-hmm.
And you're on top of a pedestal all the time, and again, like what you said, the people surrounding them are Yes men. Yeah. It's like, of course you're gonna do drugs. Of course. You think you can do that. Of course. And then I wonder what happens when we have, and I'm just using Charlie XCX, I know there's a plethora of men who talk about drugs.
I just don't feel like talking about the men today. No. Literally you can't do it. But. You have Charlie XCX talking about drug use, and then you have Amy Winehouse die. Yeah. Or you have Justin Bieber really looking strung out right now. Yeah. You have Matthew Perry, ketamine, everyone is into Ketamine.
Ketamine, ketamine therapy. Matthew Perry dies. Liam Payne, same thing.
Yeah.
Heather: And it's like, I wonder what that feels like. Does it feel like, oh, like
Zoe: they just
Heather: couldn't handle
Zoe: it? Or like it must,
Heather: I wonder? Or does it,
Zoe: it must feel like, oh, like [01:02:00] they're not doing it the same way I'm doing it. I make the perfect concoction of drugs that like make me feel like a superhero.
Like I can handle anything. They just couldn't fucking figure it out. How lame of them.
Heather: I think the problem with that too is like assuming that you're not gonna be affected, especially when it comes to alcohol, it's like alcohol itself is a depressant. So if you're just drinking all the time Yeah. And you think you're fine, you're like, I'm not really addicted.
You will find yourself dependent on it. Yeah. Because it is a depressant. It is lowering your mood, it's affecting your mental health. And if you do that for years, yeah. You're gonna end up in the same spot that we did. Yeah. Or worse.
Zoe: I think it's just like those celebrities also probably are like doing an upper, doing a downer.
Yeah. Like drinking, like they're probably like doing all these different drugs to like make them like actually feel like Okay. Throughout life, you know? Yeah. I would imagine
Heather: that there's a lot of overdoses going on at concerts,
Zoe: would you think? I think so. I saw a guy at Electric Island throwing up and [01:03:00] security came in and like got him a water.
Yeah. So like, he was definitely fucked up. I don't know about, I think like, yeah, people must be overdosing. Especially in the heat. In the heat and it probably looks like passing out, but it's overdosing.
Heather: Yeah. I, um, or, or just like, yeah. Being so high, it's like, why is this in the news? Charlie XCX talking about drugs as if we don't have a full fentanyl tran crisis going on, as if it's somehow her fault.
Mm-hmm. We love to blame the woman. We love to blame the women. We love to make it a moral issue based on a woman. Mm-hmm. I mean, Eve literally didn't even eat the apple. Adam did. And somehow that's her fault. Yeah. Women are so morally wrong. Always. And it's probably the same with like alcoholism, where like women weren't even allowed to go to AA at first.
Yeah. Because they had to. Well, the
Zoe: book isn't even, it doesn't say she at all in the book.
Heather: No. How, why? That it's always
Zoe: like put oh, put on the wife. Like the wife's always the, the only female is the wife of the alcoholic who's like in pain because the alcoholic is a man.
Heather: Yeah, [01:04:00] yeah. Like women had to fight.
They had to be like, I'm also an alcoholic. And they're like, no, I think you need a lobotomy. You're hysterical. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it's kind of just like that, like women hold this moral high ground and like for what we're working so hard and it's like. If you wanna push boundaries, that's gonna ruffle some feathers.
Yeah. But it doesn't when the men do it. Now, Miley Iris during the VMAs performance when she like ditched Hannah Montana and like came out with Robin Thick. Yeah. She got fucked for that. Yeah. In the press, like they came out, they're like, she does drugs. She's a slut. The tongue was out. I'm like, the tongue was a little bit cringe though, to be honest.
But Robin Thick Yeah. Was an adult man. Yeah. And he was like behind her grinding, being gross, having like naked women in his music videos. Yeah. But that's not a problem again, because boys are gonna do what boys are gonna do and Diddy is gonna get out in two years, but Miley Cyrus can't do [01:05:00] anything a little bit.
Well, it's
Zoe: just always, it's always on the, on the girls. It's always on the girls. Whether it's acting in a sexual way or mm-hmm. Doing drugs. Yeah. Talking about doing drugs. It's really frustrating and like I do. Like that was also what, 10 years ago now? I would hope that it would be different now if someone came out.
But also, no it hasn't because Millie Bobby Brown came out and like wore a scandalous dress. Mm-hmm. And everyone was on her about like, oh my God. Like she has like a curvy body. She's so hot. She's so slutty. Why is she wearing such a slutty dress? Yeah, she just turned what, 1920 and she was a child star.
It's same thing as Miley Cyrus. Yeah. Without the drugs, but like in a sexual way. Like it is still happening in just other ways.
Heather: And meanwhile, like Timothy Chala Ma is getting his dick sucked on Kylie Air and like Leonardo DiCaprio was [01:06:00] wearing noise canceling headphones and like having sex to his own movies.
Like, but we are a problem. It's so strange.
Zoe: Don't talk about my man like that Timothy Shalam, please. I'm sorry. It was very rude of you. Don't
Heather: ever talk about my man. Have you? Have you ever, 'cause you said your friend stopped listening to rave music. Yeah. Have you ever stopped listening to an artist or stopped like.
Being into an artist because you're like, oh no,
Zoe: because I know that I don't associate drinking with music. Okay, okay. Yeah. Like that's just like it. It's, I've never actually made that association before. Yeah. With any music, with any artist, I never did. Like I said, I'm not like huge into music. Like my boyfriend is really good at making playlists and like he always picks the music when we're going on drives.
Like it's his responsibility to play music. It's not mine. When I play music at the clinic, I don't know what the fuck I'm playing half the time. Like I hope it sounds good in there.
Heather: Well, but you know, the guy that I'm dating is like from the 1940s. Yeah. And he's like, what kind of [01:07:00] music do you like? And I'm like, oh fuck, I hate up.
I hate that question. So hate, hate, hate that question. Hate, I'm like, ask me what? Don't ask me. Ask me what TV I'm watching. Literally, what am I watching on YouTube right now? Yeah. What's my favorite movie? Music. Don't ask me about
Zoe: music. I don't care that much about music. I don't care
Heather: either. And I feel embarrassed, honestly, because I'm, I don't know, homie me.
I like top 40. Yeah. I like what everyone is listening to. Yeah. Yeah. I know you like to listen to music that you found in like the hills of Latvia underneath like a dead body. And you, and you're like, what is this? And it's a beautiful song. It's like, that's what you like. I just like fucking Yeah. But like, do you like his music?
It's fine. It's like it's, yeah, it's good. But I would never pick it. But I just am like, I feel like you're asking me that question 'cause you wanna tell me. I
Zoe: feel like a lot of the music that I do listen to, I honestly put on George Daniel's radio. George Daniel is the DJ that Charlie Xcx just got married to.
I put on like his radio Spotify mix and like I get ready in the morning, like I do listen to like DJ Rave music.
Heather: I just listen to podcasts.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Murder [01:08:00] in the morning.
Zoe: Honestly, I'm not a lyric listener. I'm more of a beat listener. Are you more lyrics? I feel like some people, like they listen to the lyrics or they listen to the music?
Heather: No, I think I listen to the lyrics. I like to know the lyrics and I like to scream them in my car. I
Zoe: definitely don't need to know the lyrics. I just like to like dance to the music.
Heather: Yeah, that makes sense.
Zoe: Yeah. And maybe that's why I'm not like, so. Annoyed with the lyrics, to be honest of Charlie. Well,
Heather: you
Zoe: also
Heather: did a thing too, where I feel like you committed your life to like not changing.
You're like, I, I have to fit in everywhere still. Yeah. And I'm just gonna fit in and be sober though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're gonna like push yourself into that and like it's not gonna bother you. Mm-hmm. So I think that's good. I just, I just don't know about drug promotion. I just dunno if we need it.
Zoe: It's gonna be around. It's gonna
Heather: be around.
Zoe: We can't stop it. No, we can Like,
Heather: I've also like the only thing
Zoe: we could do is just
Heather: like educate people. Yeah. You know? Well, I'm also not a prohibitionist. I'm not like nobody should drink. Nobody should do drugs. The problem is that some people really can't do them.
[01:09:00] Yeah. And I do feel like there's a bit of a responsibility to educate 'cause there's not. And I agree on that part. Yeah. Because I didn't know shit about, fuck, when I went into rehab, I didn't even know I was an addict. I didn't know you could get addicted to weed. Like I didn't know stuff. Exactly. So I didn't
Zoe: know anything.
Heather: I think there's a bit of responsibility, whether that's like the managers, the venues, the like something.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And I think like.
Zoe: Hopefully soon people will just have this podcast to come to, to learn about what addiction truly is. Mm-hmm. And ways that they can stop forever and stop
Heather: doing cocaine because there's fentanyl in it.
Zoe: And literally raves are so much fun sober. Like truly, I can still go out and rave. Have a good time
Heather: and you won't be sweaty and you won't shoot your pants.
Zoe: You'll still be sweaty and you could potentially still shoot your pants. Okay. Don't lie to them.
Heather: Okay. Well, okay. Goodbye. Love you guys. Love you. Stay.
Oh. Proud of you. I'm so proud of you. So proud of you. And stop doing drugs at concerts.
Zoe: Get a water if you're doing drugs at concerts, please. For [01:10:00] the love of God.
Heather: Okay, love you. Bye bye.
Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Undrunk podcast and or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com. Now we're talking about moral issues when it comes to things like the cold play concert. We have cheating in the audience rascals. Now, is this brought, brought on by the influence of cold play or is this just human nature?
Honestly, that was great. Whatever I just did. That should be a document documentary. I was like really invested. I was like, oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Um, it's a poem, a
Zoe: poet.
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