#23: Stranger in a Car
Heather and Zoe sip Edna's Palomas, unpack the weird world of mindful drinking apps, and get real about control, relapse, and rehab diaries. Then they dive into Uber's shocking safety record and late-night rides that could've gone very wrong.
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Stranger in a Car: Transcript
Heather: [00:00:00] This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening.
Okay, everybody. We have new
Zoe: Bevies today. Edna's a woman's name on
Heather: a can. Who would've thought? Love it. Edna's. This is from Vancouver. Can't v Vancouver on Canada. Vancouver. Vancouver, Canada, Vancouver,
Zoe: Alberta. No. Vancouver. British Columbia. Oh yeah. It took me a second to like, I know it's not that, I dunno what it's going back to.
The geography is crazy.
Heather: It, it is a reoccurring theme, not only in this podcast, but in my life. So this [00:01:00] is Edna's from Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. We love a Canadian girl. Super cute bottle, too cute. Very cute. Bottle shaped like a can.
Zoe: What
Heather: other flavors
Zoe: do they
Heather: have? Okay, so let me tell you, I think I
Zoe: saw
Heather: a mojito
Zoe: down there.
Heather: Today we are sipping on Edna's Mocktails from Vancouver, Canada. These, what we have right now is the Paloma. I love a Paloma. Did you like a alcoholic? Paloma? I mean, I liked every sort of drink ever. So, well that's the, that is the other thing. Yeah. I'm like, oh, I'll drink anything. I don't actually know what I liked.
Yeah, I didn't know what alcohol I liked. I just like, I didn't, I'm looking at this now and it says tequila extract, and I'm like, I did not know. Oh, I knew Paloma. I knew a Paloma was tequila. I just knew it was pink. They've got five flavors. Okay. Mojito. Paloma Mule. It's like a Moscow Mule. Yeah. Collins. Is that a Tom Collins?
Tom Collins? I don't know what that is.
Zoe: I think it would be a Tom Collins. Tom Collins. I think that's like a whiskey thing. Whiskey,
Heather: yeah. And a Smoky Mezcal. [00:02:00] Ooh, ooh. A mezcal. But do you like Smokey? I think so. You do? Okay. I, so I'm not sure if I like Smokey, so we'll try that one too. Yeah. So all of these are meant to be served on ice cold.
It's, if you wanna try Edna's cocktails, go to edna's cocktails.com and use the code Edna's 10 for 10% off. 10% off Mocktail
Zoe: Summer. Okay. Wait, let's do it at the same time. Yeah. Oh. Oh, it slips.
Heather: Ooh. Smells like summer, by the way. It's nine 30. Ooh. I remember sometimes there's like drinks and stuff that say like two servings, and I'm like, well then why would you hand it to me in this?
Not these, but yeah. Where would you hand me for two people? There's only one person. Hey, cheers. Cheers. Thanks, Edna.
Zoe: Mm. I wish I was by a pool. I like that. I wish we could record by my pool.
Heather: Hey, wait, this is like one of my faves we've had so far. [00:03:00] Really? All
Zoe: the mocks. It tastes really good. Well, I love it. Doesn't
Heather: taste like
Zoe: tequila a mocktail
Heather: to me. Mm-hmm.
Zoe: You know? Yeah. Like it doesn't taste like tequila. No,
Heather: it's not like a bitter, there's nothing that's like, oh, oh yeah.
That's what it is. Mm-hmm. Like when they, you know when they bamboozle me? Mm-hmm. With tequila and the kick is cayenne pepper. That's crazy.
Zoe: This is great. It's really good. How are you today, Heather? Or hello? Undrunkies.
Heather: Oh my God. Hi everyone. Hi. Welcome back. Welcome back to Girl Undrunk Zoe.
Zoe: Heather, how are you, babe?
I'm good. Yeah. I, um, I asked my work for Fridays, Friday mornings off so we could have some stability for the podcast. And it's currently Friday morning and here we are and it's Friday morning and here we're
Heather: so that, so proud of you.
Zoe: It was, it, I was really anxious leading up to it. Like I talked about it last week, but I was talking to the people at the meeting this week about it.
'cause I was still feeling anxious even after
Both: Yeah,
Zoe: I got it. [00:04:00] Oh, and then, okay. I realized that I think the anxiety stems from like thinking that I don't deserve it. Like I'm anxious to ask because I think I don't deserve it. And even if I got the Friday mornings off, like I feel like I still don't deserve it.
So that's why I'm still anxious. That's cool. You know what means that, you know what I mean?
Heather: I, I do know what you mean. Yeah, I do. It's almost similar to like, well if this feels right Yeah. Getting a job. Yeah. Or a promotion and then being like, yeah, but I don't deserve it. Yeah. And it's like, well, they gave it to you for a reason and it's Exactly.
Well,
Zoe: I think also, like before I would just fuck up at work, so I got fired instead of asking for what I want, you know? Yeah, yeah. I would just be like, okay, well I'm just gonna get drunk so that they have to fire me because I have no other reason and I don't deserve anything else. Yeah. You know?
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: So I think that's where the anxiety stems from.
Yeah.
Heather: And it's so, it's like so
Zoe: new. Yeah. For you to
Heather: be like, wait, I am an autonomous woman. I can, I can ask for things I want and I do deserve
Zoe: it. Like, yeah. That's the second thought. But the first thought [00:05:00] is, is that I don't deserve it. Yeah. So I think you just have to like, that's a good
Heather: thing
Zoe: to
Heather: notice.
Yeah.
Zoe: I don't deserve this. Mm-hmm. Like I guess that was, yeah. So I
Heather: wonder going back in your life Yeah. Like where that started for you? Yeah. Like where that like feeling undeserving. Yeah. Really started. Was it an alcohol related thing or was it like before? I'm sure it
Zoe: was like something to do with my
Heather: parents.
Zoe: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. You get an idea in your head when you're a kid and somehow that becomes I'm undeserving. Yeah. And I dunno, why
Zoe: did I tell you that? They used to tell me that when I was being like a bad girl, they would be like, well, we're just gonna send you back to the Zoey. The Zoey School. Or Zoe Farm.
The Zoey farm, something like that. And I'll just get another Zoe.
Heather: Did you believe
Zoe: that? I really did. Yeah. I really did. And that's, I think, traumatic for me. It is
Heather: scary.
Zoe: Yeah. Because it's like that's possible. Like, I don't know, I'm a child. It's possible to like, yeah, you go somewhere and then you just don't come back.
And then I'm left with like strangers not good because I wasn't a good girl.
Heather: I know. And like somehow that's like my fault. [00:06:00] No, I love
Zoe: being called a good girl in the bedroom. I wonder why.
Heather: Damn. Yeah. Um, that's crazy. Also, my mom used to threaten my sister by saying she's gonna send me
Zoe: away.
Heather: Yeah. Like, and that's like the same thing.
Yeah. Yeah. But it's like traumatizing my sister. 'cause it's like, you're bad and because you're bad, we're gonna take your sister. And she was like, my sister.
Zoe: It's horrible. Yeah. Other than that, I'm good. I'm going to Sarnia this weekend to gonna be warm to the fam. It's gonna be warm. Sunday's supposed to be a little bit shitty, so I might come back to the city early.
And then me and my boyfriend are going to the CNE on Monday, which I'm so excited for. It's gonna be so cute. He's never gone. I've never gone. You've never gone. I
Heather: really, well, first of all, I've been, you hate crowds, so like hate. Why would you go? I hate, but I was also drunk for like a long time. Yeah. And so I just like was never gonna go outside in the hot, hot sun.
Zoe: I, well, I think I used to go as a kid to the CNE every single year. Yeah. And then when I was drinking, no, I didn't go because. I can't go [00:07:00] anywhere when I'm drinking. No. And then I've been recently going back since I've been sober every year. So this will be my third year going. I think I wanna go. You should go.
I didn't know. You've never been. I've also never been to Wonderland. We can go for Halloween Haunt.
Heather: Yeah. But what if there's a real scary man, a real serial killer, and he comes in, puts a mask on, and then starts stabbing away. And that is, and that is my, what could happen? That is the risk that that is the risk that the occupational hazard
Zoe: and that's what's scary about it.
Heather: Yeah. Well, that's exactly right. Yeah. The thing that scares me isn't the, the ghosts and the goblins. It's the real ones. The men. The men. But I do worry about things like that, like the CNE, especially with, especially with so much like I know we're in Canada, but political turmoil makes me very nervous for people's mental states.
You can come and meet us on Monday if you want. Okay. I'll be wearing a big, um, suit with like a lot of padding in case anyone wants to come through the barriers and run me down. They will run me down. You gotta get over your fears,
Zoe: babe. [00:08:00] Together.
Heather: I can't help it. I was in the Boston bombings. It's very hard for me to like get over things.
You know? You were in it. Yes, I was in school during the Boston bombings of, when was that? So
Zoe: I didn't know that. That was 20. That was 20 20 13. This makes sense of why you're so fucking scared of getting ran over. Yes. In these fucking big events.
Heather: Yes. I was at Boston Conservatory and I was on the main strip, what is that strip called?
Boyleston. And they were running down Boyleston. Mm-hmm. And yeah, I was right at the Trader Joe's, which was. Probably about like a hundred, 200 feet from the explosion. Oh, wow. And I was there, so like I, and I had a lot of friends there. There were friends sitting on the bleachers. There was a bomb under one of the bleachers that didn't go off.
And my friends were sitting right there. Oh my God. Yeah. Anne was there too. It was like we were freshmen.
Both: Yeah.
Heather: Just like, and then everything got crazy. But yeah, it like you heard the explosion and I thought it was a car backfiring, and I didn't even know what that meant. I just was like, oh, you know sounds of the city.
Yeah. Or like bang, bang. It's a marathon. Yeah. And then everyone started fucking [00:09:00] screaming and running and then it was like a wave of people. That's
Zoe: terrifying. Yeah. But it doesn't mean it's gonna happen at every single event that you go to. No, it
Heather: doesn't. It just means that I have to get myself, you feel
Zoe: safe enough to go.
I have to get myself
Heather: into a place where I am like.
Zoe: This is gonna be okay.
Heather: Yeah. 'cause I'm not an agoraphobic. Like I do go outside, I do things. It's just crowds are really scary. Crowds are really scary. Scary. And that makes
Zoe: sense if you've been through that. Well, you know what also scares
Heather: me about crowds is that people aren't paying attention to what I'm paying attention to.
Yeah. People are paying attention to the thing and I feel like I'm taking care of everybody by looking around and I'm never having fun.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Like ever. So I'm like, you know what, let me just not go and I'll watch TV at home.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Maybe the CNE is not for you then. I
Zoe: know. Um, yeah. Overall, I'm also feeling feeling for you.
Yeah. Sympathy pains, sympathy pains for you. Yeah. Um,
Heather: I'm okay. I'm okay. I, uh,
Zoe: I'm glad that you're saying that, but I
Heather: know you're
Zoe: not.
Heather: You [00:10:00] know what, you know. No, you know what? I am. Okay. I've been talking to myself a lot. I am like in this like weird, precarious situation right now, and I'm just like, I don't.
It's been a long weekend. Yeah. And it's Friday. We won't talk about it yet, but like Yeah. Shit's going, shit's going down. Shit's going down. I've been doing a lot of crying and I just, I, okay. I will say this, the one part of the situation, the one thing that was like said to me is that like, I spend a lot of time on the podcast.
Mm-hmm. And I, like ex, I exert all of my energy on the pod and I love to work on it, and it is my priority. Mm-hmm. And it feels like that's my first priority. Mm-hmm. Which, it's, it's, and out of all, all the things that were said to me, or all the things that are going on, I kind of am just like so fucking proud of myself.
Yeah.
Zoe: You're like, thank God the podcast is my number one priority. Thank God this is what I wanna do.
Heather: Oh my God. Thank God the podcast isn't the thing that's falling apart. Yeah. I'm like [00:11:00] the, I've put so much energy into this and I just felt in that moment when it was said to me, I was like. Good for you, bitch.
Mm-hmm. Like I've spent my whole life for men. Yeah. Like I live for men and I for boys when I was a kid, like I've always made decisions based on men. Yeah. And I'll sacrifice things. My career auditions. Yeah. Sleep, friendships, everything. Yeah. And I was like, girl, you flipped it. Yeah. So now I'm spending too much time on this, but not too much time.
This is the exact amount of time, yeah. The exact amount of energy I wanna be using on this. And I feel really proud of myself for that. Me too. And
Zoe: yeah, I'm, I'm just so proud of you. Rollercoaster. I mean, what a, what a rollercoaster. What a rollercoaster. Rollercoaster. What rollercoaster, what a rollercoaster you're going on and yeah.
I just feel like I wish there was more that I could do to like, help you, but I think just like, no, I'm always here for you no matter what happens. And Yeah.
Heather: And I do know that, and I do believe that. And I obviously [00:12:00] like I love you and I'm so fucking thankful that we're friends. Same. I fully just like.
Cried hard on our meeting yesterday morning and I like did something and then it was weird and I was like, Zoe, I'm so sorry. I just didn't even mean to like hide that from you. I was just, I'm confused. Like
Zoe: I'm just out of fucking control. Yeah. Which, and I totally get that too, by the way. Like it's a lot, it's, it's a lot that's going on and like you're handling it, you're handling it with grace and you're saying you're good.
You don't have to be good all the time. Yeah. As well. Like, it's good to, it's fine to be sad. Yeah. Like you can just, your, hopefully your emotion coming through this will just be like, I'm sad, but I'm gonna be okay. You know? I
Heather: think I cried at all out already. Yeah. Like, I kind of feel good. Yeah. I kind of feel like this is the shit I'm talking about, like, yeah, we as women, we're fucking good.
Yeah, we're fine. Like we don't just cry it out, cry it out. We don't need anybody. We're just like doing our thing and you're [00:13:00] gonna attract the right energy when you attract the right energy. Yeah. At the right time. Like, but pushing and forcing and being upset is just like, not the fight. Yeah. You know? But I, I do actually genuinely feel okay.
I wasn't sure. I was like, I could come on this pod and cry, but I honestly feel fine. But listening to DJ in our morning meetings tell us how much he loves us and how proud of us he is. I can't not cry. Love his sweetheart.
Zoe: I
Heather: know. I was like, dj, you can't. I am so emotional right now. We have a lot of like fans.
Yo. Yeah. Yo. Yeah. Those dms are so nice. So fucking nice. Would you rate yourself mental health wise? Uh, I would just say I'm probably like a five. Like, I'm okay. I'm honestly like, yeah. I, I do feel like, like I feel weirdly calm, to be honest with you, or like weirdly fine. Yeah. But I think, I don't know, I think I'm a five is fine.
Yeah. I think I'm a five. I'm in the middle.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: I'd say I'm a
Zoe: seven.
Heather: Great.
Zoe: Yeah. I would love to be a 10. I don't know, A 10 would be scary. If you're too [00:14:00] good, then something's gonna happen.
Heather: Yeah. If I'm a 10, I feel like I would be like Gargo, gar gooing up on this chair right now. Just like in a weird hyper.
Yeah. I don't know. I guess I'd be like a 10
Zoe: if like we blew up.
Heather: Oh, like on the internet?
Zoe: Yeah. I was like, like exploded. That's where
Heather: your
Zoe: mind goes to first.
Heather: I told you that my grandfather was struck by lightning twice. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. That's all. That's, there's no more to the story. That's it. Okay. Well, my mental health is fine.
Whatever. Sober news. Sober news, we have some like quick interesting men to talk about. Ugh. The men. I know the men, but sometimes, sometimes they're Okay. We've got machine gun Kelly. Mm-hmm. Who is a sober person, claims to be. Claims to be sober. Claims to be. There's like a few things with him. He went on watch what hap, watch what happens live with Andy Cohen.
Mm-hmm. And Andy Cohen asked him like, why are you so young? How do you look so young? Yeah. And then Machine gun Kelly just starts going off about like, [00:15:00] I don't know, like honestly, I don't even know who I am anymore. Like I, I might even just be part a alien. Like, that's probably true. And he was making everyone so uncomfortable.
It was really uncomfortable. It was weird. I, I was a little bit, I was like, okay. So I always assume everyone's on drugs all the time, but maybe that's just like him being not on drugs newly,
Zoe: or him being newly sober because like when people get newly sober, they're saying crazy things. Weird
Heather: things like trying to find your humor.
Trying to find your personality again, like you're on live tv. 'cause like he
Zoe: has been in and outta rehab for like a few years now. Yeah. So like, maybe, I think he said that he was in rehab in December. Yeah. Um, everyone speculated that they broke up, but he was just in rehab. So maybe it's just him like trying to find himself again.
But like, yeah, it's. Something's going on there. But also him and Megan are just like very weird people. Weird.
Heather: It's so weird. And like I love Megan so much. I do too. She was not this weird with Brian Austin Green. I feel like she's gotten well. I think she's always been a little weird, actually. Weird. She was, yeah.
Like I
Zoe: [00:16:00] watched this interview of her talking about Jennifer's body back in the day, man, she nuts for Jennifer's
Heather: body. And she was,
Zoe: she was, she's always just been a little
Heather: crazy
Zoe: weirdo.
Heather: Jennifer's body. Have you seen it?
Zoe: I have. Yeah. What a great movie. Yeah,
Heather: that is such a great
Zoe: movie for us. Yes.
Heather: I love that.
I mean,
Zoe: we could do that for Halloween too. Like I can be the blonde girl. You can be Megan or vice versa. Fake blood. Yeah, fake blood. I have a lot of fake blood that we need
Heather: to use. I have no fake blood. Never. I've never had fake blood machine gun Kelly. I dunno. He's just like a character that comes in and out and I'm just like, are you sober?
Are you not? Yeah. It's interesting when people are like, um, publicly sober. I wonder if he's gonna go on arm track
Zoe: expert.
Heather: Has he not been on?
Zoe: I feel like he has, but not for a while. If he's doing the circuits again, he might.
Heather: Yeah. Speaking of armchair expert, I wanted to bring this up because I was thinking about it and I'll probably forget forever.
I talk about my sobriety and like it's always very linked to Doc Shepherd and Armchair expert, and Monica [00:17:00] Padman and I, they really, really got me sober, thank fucking God. But there is one person that I kind of forgot about in my sobriety journey that's so fucking inspirational and I think I forgot because I'm fucking drunk all the time.
Mm-hmm. I started listening to podcasts, well, when Serial came out, but then the podcast I started listening to was my favorite murder with Karen k Gareth and Georgia. Hard Stark. And I fucking love those girls. They're true caught, true crime girls. I'm obsessed. Okay. Karen k Gareth. She's in her fifties now.
She stopped drinking in her twenties. Okay. I think in her like late, mid, late twenties because she was a blackout drunk like almost every night. Yeah. And she started to have seizures. Oh shit. So she's had multiple of them. There was like one story she told where she woke up in the morning and she was like on the phone and then she turned around and there was like blood spatter all over her wall.
'cause she had bit her tongue in the night while having a seizure and then just like woke up. And so she had to stop drinking. Yeah. Which was hard 'cause she was an addict.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: But yeah, I just wanted to [00:18:00] say that because. I don't know. I just wanted, I felt like I needed to shut out Karen Kilgar. 'cause she really, really put it into my head that like sobriety is a thing.
Mind you, it took me 10 more years to get sober after that. But, so she would talk about her
Zoe: sobriety
Heather: a little bit
Zoe: on this True Crime podcast. Yeah. Like it
Heather: would just, it came up like really early days of the podcast. Yeah. And like, which was weird 'cause that's when I started listening to it.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And then like she's gone on someone else's podcast.
Podcast to kind of like tell the full arc. But I've never listened to that podcast so I don't
Zoe: really know what you're
Heather: talking about. Yeah. But yeah. But I just love her and I just wanted to say that 'cause like thinking about people like texting us now, being like, thank you for doing this. I'm like, yeah, who were my early ones?
And I'm like, Karen k Gareth, like a woman had to get sober. She worked, she's in comedy. Like that's her whole thing. And I just am like, I don't know. I feel really good that there was a woman in my life that really like helped me. And that's all,
Zoe: honestly. There's a photographer I've followed for a really long time.
I think his name is Damon Baker. And he [00:19:00] was. Getting sober. Mm-hmm. Around the time that I went to rehab as well. So maybe that also. Okay. Maybe he put it in my mind as well. Yeah. It's fun.
Heather: Fun to do it with a buddy.
Zoe: Yeah. He was just posting it on Instagram. I think he still posts like I'm this many days sober and I'm feeling this way and it's okay to feel like this.
Call her daddy, Alex Cooper had
Heather: Kid
Zoe: Cudi on the pod and I didn't listen to it. He's just the, he's just the coolest guy. He's the cute ever. He's the best. I think just him like opening up about, I guess he was sober doing it on his own. Mm-hmm. And then had a relapse and then was like, what the fuck? Like, I thought that I was fine from this stuff.
I thought that I had this under control. Yeah. And then he went to rehab, um, and really dove into like talking to therapists about his feelings and mental health and it was just really cool to, for him to talk about it in such an open way of like, this is what. Like this is it. Mm-hmm. Like talk to people about what you're feeling guys.
Yeah. [00:20:00] Like him as a man saying that is just so powerful. So I hope Totally. That spoke to a lot of people.
Heather: Yeah. A lot of people who like think that therapy. Well, okay, this is the thing 'cause it's like we hear about these, a lot of times we hear about men and women in Hollywood who like, go to rehab. Yeah.
But we don't hear about like, the things that people are doing up until that point. Yeah. Like re or therapy and all these things. Like rehab is, uh, is where you go. Mm-hmm. When you need immediate help.
Zoe: Yeah. Or even like, it didn't seem like he was like, it sound sounded like he was sober for a while, had this slip.
Mm-hmm. And was like, Hey, let me nip this in the butt. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I would do. Let, let me cut this in the butt. Cut in the, before I go any harder. And so that's what he did. And that's good. I don't know, I guess I just like, I like hearing men talk about that kind of stuff. I
Heather: do too. It's really nice.
Yeah, it's really important. Yeah. And it's like, and
Zoe: talking about rehab, our friend, I was talking to our friend about rehab because we were gonna talk about like our rehab binders. Mm-hmm. [00:21:00] And she was like, what do you mean a rehab binder? Don't you guys just sit around all day and detox and paint? Why do you have a binder?
What's in your binder?
Heather: We do class all day. There'd be 24 7. It really is. It's therapy bootcamp. That's why I love rehab. You go in there and they just like tell you everything you need to know. You're in a bubble for like a month to 45 days. And it's the best. It is the best. I mean, we
Zoe: did do painting. I painted like maybe once a week.
I did arts and crafts once a week. I think I did arts and
Heather: crafts twice the whole time I was there. Really? But I'm not really a crafty person. I would rather like not do that. Yeah. We played a lot of fucking games though. And I'm not sober or drunk. I'm so mean and competitive. I'm so competitive. I can't, like I will call you a bitch to your face if, if we're playing jeopardy and you like, I just can't, I played a lot of pool, I played
Zoe: a lot of pool, ping pong and a lot of basketball.
We didn't have
Heather: that. Yeah. A lot of I like, uh, I like that you had all the, [00:22:00] all the addicts and withdrawal trying to like, do play basketball and run up. Oh my God. They were
Zoe: so fucking sweaty and heaving.
Heather: Oh my God. You, you know how big I was when I went to rehab. Yeah. And then they made us hike. I was like, oh
Both: no.
Heather: In the dead of winter, not hill. Seriously. In the dead of winter. And I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt and I'm like,
Zoe: wait, when did you go to rehab again? In February? No, March. March 5th. Yeah. March 5th.
Heather: Loved it. Okay. Loved debt. Okay. Well, talking about kid Cudi and like thinking like, oh, I thought I had this under control.
Yeah. The control. I think we need to delete the idea of control. Yeah. Because once you're an addict, you're done. Yeah. There's no control. There's honestly, like, I don't even know if there's anything in my life that I am controlling. Like am I controlling my food? No, not really. I don't think about it. Am I controlling?
Like, I'm just not like abstaining from things all the like, there isn't really anything 'cause I'm, other than the fact that I'm completely sober, but other things in my life. Mm-hmm. [00:23:00] There's an app that, did you like that transition? Mm-hmm. There's an app that is out, it's called the Sunnyside app. And let me just, it's Sunnyside Mindful Drinking app.
Zoe: I'm,
Heather: I
Zoe: wonder if there's other apps like this?
Both: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: If there's one, there must be a few. You know what I mean? When there's one. One, there's one. There's a few. There's a few. Okay. So where did
Heather: she send this to us. Found it. Okay. I'm gonna play this. Okay. A little bit of it so you guys can all hear what I'm talking about.
It's what, what? Talking about
Ad: I didn't quit drinking and I'm not going to, but I am drinking 50% less. Last week I drank three nights this week, just two. And last night I stopped at just one glass. Today I even swapped wine for tea tomorrow. Who knows? I'm finally doing it my way. Not some all or nothing rule book.
And the app I'm using to help me be more mindful about my drinking is Sunnyside. Okay,
Zoe: so cringe. First of all. So cringe. So cringe.
Ad: Second
Zoe: of all, what? [00:24:00] Like, yeah. Are you an addict? You are. In my eyes, you're an addict if you need to try to control it like that, right? Even my friend, remember I told you, she texted me like, I'm only gonna allow myself to have shots if it's an occasion.
Yeah. And if it's not an occasion, I can only have three cocktails. That's it. Me too. Okay. If. You're setting up rules for yourself like that and trying to download an app to follow guidelines. You have a problem. Yes. You can't control it.
Heather: Yes. That is exactly how I feel. The Sunnyside app, basically it, it is a subscription.
Mm-hmm. So we read like two different prices, but I think like the max price is like 2 99 annually. Yeah. So it is expensive. And um, basically you're tracking your drinking. Yeah. And you make little goals for yourself kind of. But I think it's almost feels like the goal is to intuitively drink and not even think about drinking.
Yeah. Which, if you're trying to control your drinking, you're always [00:25:00] thinking about drinking. Drinking.
Zoe: Yeah. And you're probably like checking that up, like every day being like, can I drink it? Can I drink it? You know, and that no shit.
Heather: What the fuck? I would be like. Just obscene. I know it's
Zoe: fucking hard, but, well, I
Heather: would just be like, oh, okay, so I'm doing, and listen, I get it because I've done these apps before with eating and with whatever else running, shit like that.
But you like start out with good intentions. Yeah. But no one's watching you. There's no supervision. So you're, you can manipulate it all you want. And what I would do is like, okay, I had one glass of wine on Tuesday. Well that would've never happened. I had 16 glasses of wine on Tuesday, so I'll have no glasses tomorrow.
Yeah. And then on Thursday I can drink. Yeah. But I'll just be like, okay, well now it's Wednesday and I wanna drink, so I'll just have three. Yeah. That's fine. Yeah. And like, and I
Zoe: would just do that. Exactly. No, I think like, it's similar to how I had [00:26:00] therapists and I would, we were trying to like control my drinking and I would lie to them about being like, yeah, I only had five drinks yesterday, meanwhile I had 10.
Yeah. You know? Yeah. So it's like the same thing. You're either lying to your app or you're lying to your therapist about how much you're drinking. Mm-hmm. You can't control it. The only solution is abstinence. Yeah. Scary but true. Yeah. Because I really, I really think, unless you're like a very, unless you're like trying to like train for like a marathon or something.
That's exactly right. You wanna track how much you're drinking through an app, then. Yes. But if you're doing it to trying to stop drinking as much mm-hmm. Then you have a problem and you should probably just quit altogether. Well,
Heather: that's exactly right. So, and it's like, the question really is, it's like who are you marketing to?
Yeah. I mean, you heard it on the pod, but the clip is this woman who, who the fuck is she, by the way? She's not like a celebrity that we know is Yeah, she, she didn't introduce herself. It's like a sober person or a person who wants to get sober [00:27:00] or like she just wants to control her drinking. Her arms are fully crossed in front of her and she's so excited talking about this app and controlling her drinking.
So I'm like, you are not using this app. Who are you? This is a paid actor. Definitely. I just, and also somebody else said that in the comments, like, I saw a man doing the exact same ad. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, yeah. This is a scripted thing. Yeah. This is like, who is this marketed towards? Like is this for people, like you said, who are training for something?
Or maybe like, I wonder if there's people out here who are like, oh no, you know what? Maybe it's like me where I'm like, I don't know how much protein I I consume. Let me try and track it and f just figure out how much. Maybe if you're a person who like has zero qualms with alcohol and addiction, I don't know why you would get the app, but if you're just like, let me see how much I'm
Zoe: drinking.
Well, that's the thing. Like if you don't have a problem with it, then you don't really care to track how much you're drinking. Right. Because you're probably only drinking like once a week if that, you know, and
Heather: not
Zoe: to be a super pessimist,
Heather: but I also think that like these [00:28:00] apps, they want you to fail because that means you're gonna keep coming back to the app.
Yeah. And it's gonna be like MyFitnessPal, by the way, if you. Any of you had eating disorders and used MyFitnessPal, like a full diary. Yeah. You do fall off it. 'cause you, it's mean. Like you, you literally hurt your own self by being like, this is what I ate, this is what I drank, so I'm gonna put the phone away, drink, drink, drink, and then I'm gonna come back.
Mind you, my subscription, my subscription is renewing. So however long you have the app. So I feel like the app is, it's enabling people to fail at controlling
Zoe: their drinking and it's making them even more shameful. Mm-hmm. And disappointing in themselves because they can see that they're not following it, you know?
Yeah. Okay. So there's a different app called Reframe as well. So it says like, which app is better? Reframe or Sunnyside?
Both: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: So, yeah, there's more than one app like this. The Sunnyside app was co-founded by Nick Allen and Ian Anderson, the two most white men [00:29:00] names ever except for the two men that started aa.
Their names are literally like Bill and Bob or something. Yeah. Um, they launched the app back in 2020, originally under the name cutback coach in response to increased alcohol consumption during COVID-19.
Both: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Sunnyside focus on, focuses on mindful drinking and moderation rather than abstinence. Ugh. I It just seems like they're fucking taking your money and I don't know.
I'd, I would love to hear someone who, yeah. Who uses this app and like why they use this app. And if it's like good if they've had positive experiences with it. Mm-hmm. And if it is working for them. But I just, it reminds me of like how I was trying to control my drinking back in the day. I would've definitely got this app.
Yeah. If I was like, when I was trying everything but going to rehab, you know. Well,
Heather: and you said something that you found recently in your diary about Yeah. Tracking your drinking.
Zoe: Well, I, yeah. So I was looking through my old diary, which is like, so sad, [00:30:00] so sad. I'll bring it in one day. Mm-hmm. And I'll like read you stuff.
Heather: Yeah. When I'm not so emotional.
Zoe: Yeah. Not today. I, um, yeah, I started it back in December, December 21st, 2021. And I went to rehab in 2020 2nd of October. So I was writing in it for over a year trying to control my drinking. What did that look like for you controlling your drinking? Well, I was tracking what I was drinking every day until I got too drunk and then I missed a week, you know?
And yeah, I had, I write down like, reasons why I picked up the mickey this time, or like, why, I know I'm the worst person when I'm drinking. Why do I keep drinking? You know, like I write this stuff down to myself in my journal and I reading it back, it sounds like I was trying to stop drinking. Mm-hmm. I don't remember it like that because I think, I know in my heart I wasn't [00:31:00] trying to stop.
I was just trying to control it. Yeah. I like did little codes for myself, like little signs and like exclamation marks to like do a code of how much I was drinking in case anyone was reading it. Mm-hmm. Because I didn't wanna put down like 30 plus drinks. I don't know. Yeah.
Heather: Someone's gonna find your journal.
I
Zoe: know, but it's, it was. So I would, I was trying everything to try to control it, so I would've definitely got that app.
Both: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: I was trying therapy, I was trying to like meditate and do yoga and I was like, some, some stuff I was writing in there was like, just read your book and you're gonna be okay. I was reading shit like the bell jar.
Mm-hmm. And like Joanne Didion shit, like, stuff that was like depressing myself even more, you know? Yeah. So it's like, I don't, I just, I felt really sad for her and. It's funny to look back at that now. Yeah. 'cause I was so stuck in the same cycle. Like, I would write something like, oh my God, I'm feeling so good today.
I'm so proud of myself. I [00:32:00] didn't drink anything today. And then three weeks go by. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, I got fucked up. I pissed my bed every night and I called my ex-boyfriend, like, showed up at his house and fucked his friend. And you know, like, yeah. It's just, it's chaotic reading it. It's, it's so chaotic.
It's so
Heather: fucked up. But I can relate to that so deeply because it's that thing of like, I know there's a problem. Yeah. And I'm a problem now. How can I logic myself into changing, how can I trick myself into like, like, you almost want, for me anyway, I almost wanted to snap out of it. Yeah.
Zoe: Well I think that's what we were trying to do for so long.
Heather: I was hoping, 'cause you know how like you have go through phases in life of like, I don't know, I like, I like, I don't like this food and now I like it, or I don't, I literally can't think of one fucking anecdote today. Mm-hmm. But I was like, okay, well maybe people grow out of drinking. Yeah. Like hope. I would hope and pray every night I'm like, tomorrow I'm gonna wake up and just not have the urge to drink.
That's what I would love. Or like,
Zoe: not have the urge to drink like I was doing. [00:33:00] You know? Like, yeah. Like I, I hope that I can drink like a normal person tomorrow. It's gonna be fine. I'll be okay.
Both: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: But that's
Heather: the other thing too, when we say that it's like. Did I actually wanna drink like a normal person?
Like Sure, that's the thing. Yeah. I, but I wanted to get fucked up. Get fucked up. The point of my drinking fucked up wasn't just to have a drink with the girls, it was to leave my body and get completely smashed. Yeah. Like, so I don't know if it's that funny. I wanted
Zoe: to leave my body and com get completely smashed, but not say psychotic things to people and
Heather: Yeah.
Ruin
Zoe: myself and my body.
Heather: I think I wanted to start over and not have this problem at all. Yeah. Like, I really, really did. And it was very, it's very upsetting to then be like, now this is on me and I've gotten here and I have this big problem that I have to fix. Yeah. So I'm gonna track it and do the best I can with what I know.
Yeah. And then get myself to rehab eventually. But, but I like what you said about. You write a thing down, I'm feeling really good. And then three weeks go by and you're like, oh. When I was in rehab, one of my friends [00:34:00] had one of those like five minute journals. Yeah. And she was like, okay, see look, my sister's got this journal for me.
And I wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote. And then you flip through some pages and then it's blank, blank, blank. Yeah. And then she's like, oh. And then you see I started up again. Yeah. Like I got sober again here. And I'm like, damn. It's exhausting. Yeah. It's fucking exhausting. And the starting over is so grueling that I never did it.
Like I wouldn't have even tracked my shit 'cause I didn't want to.
Zoe: I, yeah, I, I always did come back to it. So in this one journal I have like. Probably a quarter of it is from a year trying to control it. Mm-hmm. And then another quarter of it is like in rehab and then the end of it is like maybe six months out of rehab.
Um, that's amazing that you did that. It's amazing that you fucking, it's not consistent though, like Right. But still it's something that I have to like track of how the fuck I was feeling back then. Like it's actually really sad to Yeah. To go back there and like, I had just read it and then I was [00:35:00] talking to my boyfriend, like being all sad and then I heard your news and I was like, this is too much.
Yeah. This is too
Heather: much. Like I'll be exiting, but you so Yeah. Exactly. Can't possibly.
Zoe: I was, wait, that was a lot. It was a big night for me. That was a lot. That was a big night for you? Well, it had to be a big night for me because it was a big night for you. So like, it makes sense.
Heather: Well, yeah. Like I say, we're twins from that movie with Lindsay Lohan, not the Parent Trap.
The older one where one of them gets their, gets kidnapped and gets their hand cut off and then I feel it. Yes. Do you guys wanna see what a binder looks like? A
Zoe: rehab binder? Yeah. Show them the bin, show them the bind. I wonder
Heather: who do you think that app would work for though? Do you think it works for hard drinkers?
Like we were talking last week about like the three tiers of drinking. Yeah. What's the first one?
Zoe: Like moderate drinkers. Moderate drinkers. Hard drinkers. Alcoholics
Heather: maybe for hard drinkers, but even hard drinkers, like they can stop.
Zoe: But
Heather: then
Zoe: I just don't know why someone would want to [00:36:00] track their drinking if they didn't have a problem with it.
Well, that is what's confusing to me.
Heather: Well, that's why I tracked my food 'cause I was having a problem with it. Yeah, that's, that's exactly right. Yeah. And I, I really, it is a weird thing because also with food and my FitnessPal. You have to eat food to survive, you have to eat food, you have to drink water, but you don't have to have alcohol.
So if you're like ask, like telling these people like come to my app and we can mindfully show you how to drink. Yeah. Casually. And when like just, it seems very weird. Intuitively, it's first all that doesn't work. Yeah.
Zoe: It does not work Well. And that's why I like resented a lot of my therapist too, because they were like trying to control my drinking with me.
Yeah. And like I know now that that was never gonna work. Mm-hmm. And I needed to stop Absolutely. Talking about that. I need to bring this up. Someone told me in the meetings that she was at a different meeting like a couple weeks ago, whatever. And this guy was there, [00:37:00] he is a volunteer at CMH and was like saying he was an addict to get the inside scoop of what the meetings were about.
What to like try to better people at CMH. Meanwhile, he's asking this girl like, oh, so you believe in God? So why do you believe in God? So like interrogating this girl who I think she's like pretty newly sober. Hey, so why are you, why are you disguising yourself to be an alcoholic? To come into these meetings, to like shame people for it?
Like, I don't understand. And that also makes me upset because why? Like, these are the types of people who are volunteering at mh. That's a horrible person right there. But wait, was he trying to come into AA to like learn tips? I think he was just like, what the fuck is this about? Why God. Okay. Yeah. And like shaming this girl that I was talking to.
Like, oh, so why do you believe in God? This isn't gonna help [00:38:00] you, blah, blah, blah. And that's the type of people that we have working for our mental health hospital. Someone who's gonna disguise themselves to sneak into a meeting.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: What the actual fuck I was saying to her, I was like, okay, this would've been good if he was actually trying to learn about it.
Mm-hmm. To help people. Totally, totally. That would've been different. But again, don't sneak yourself into a meeting. Just ask someone about it. Yes. Just ask or say like, Hey, I'm, I wanna go to this meeting to learn about it for my patients at CMH. Sure. We bring you in. Fine.
Heather: Yeah. But some groups are closed and I'm sure they would say no.
Yeah. And then some groups are open and I'm sure they would say, yeah, come on in. Yeah. Like, this is
Zoe: so I, it just like worries me that that's the type of people that we have working at CMH, which is our mental health hospital, mental Health and Addiction hospital in Toronto.
Heather: Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Also heavily funded.
Zoe: Yeah,
Heather: it is crazy. And also to that. Nobody, nobody in AA believes that Jesus [00:39:00] walked on water. Okay. They give themselves to God so that God can take some of the pressure off their fucking addiction. You idiots. And also like, it's a,
Zoe: it's our God. Mm-hmm. I create my own God that I want. Yeah. Like, I have a list of what, what traits my God is and my traits are different than your God's traits.
You know, like it's a different God. It's not Jesus Christ, it's not religion at all.
Ad: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: So I don't know that that was something I wanted for that people do really get
Heather: caught up in the God. And like, that's the other thing too. I don't, um, like I'm not knocking the way people try to get sober, but this app is not encouraging sobriety.
It's encouraging you to keep drinking.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Which like, yeah. You are just like, you don't need to drink. That's the thing. And if you, again, what you said, we'll just reiterate. If you need to control your drinking in any way. If you have a problem with drinking and the answer is abstinence, you're gonna get there eventually.
And also,
Zoe: a better app to get if you wanna be abstinent, is I am sober. Yeah. Get that app, track your, um, sobriety. Yeah. And you can write in that app every day, like how you're [00:40:00] feeling and why you wanna stay sober. And you can read other people's comments of why they're sober and how they're feeling. And it is a community within an app of sobriety.
Get that.
Heather: Get that. I'm 894 days sober today. Oh shit. You're coming up on a thousand babies. I know. I'm coming up. I uh, there was a girl on our that dmd us, or No, she didn't DM us. This girl posted on her story like her sober, like her days and I think it was 2, 2, 2. And I messaged her and I was like, damn, there's something so satisfying about a triple number.
An angel number. Yeah. You're like, I've made it here. Oh, 1,027. That just like gave me chills a little bit that you have four numbers, like you have a comma in yours. I know like you have so many that likeget so many days you have a comma. But I also
Zoe: love that my sober date is October 22nd, 2022. Like the twos.
It is satisfying.
Heather: Mine is March 5th, 2023. And I actually kind of like, yeah, that mine is not perfect.
Zoe: I like yours too, because I like a five and a three together because they're odd numbers and you're an odd lady. [00:41:00] That's true. But usually I'd be like, I can't.
Heather: And that's why I love you. I, I usually like a round number. Like I would've been like March 8th, 2020. Like that's what I would like, but I think the imperfection of it is part of the sobriety of it all.
Zoe: Yeah. Well, and also like the, there's a section on here called community and if you're struggling to be like, be sober and live every day as a sober person, you can just read all of these milestones and how people are feeling being newly sober.
It's, it's a great app. That's an app that we love.
Heather: We love not that one. If you are using an app to control your drinking, if that is where you are. Mm-hmm. That's okay. That's okay. Listen, we're all on our own
Zoe: journey. It might be like working for you too. I personally, it wouldn't work for me and I know I would've tried it and I would've like been like, fuck, I'm a failure again.
Heather: Yeah. It's also probably not working for you and if it is right now, it probably won't in my opinion. But you [00:42:00] forward, John, you do your thing. I will say. If it doesn't work for you, that's okay too. Yeah. It's super normal to not be able to control your drinking and yeah, people need to know that it is very difficult to do.
If you fail at it, you're not a bad person. Controlling your alcohol is not a real
Zoe: thing.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: Now,
Heather: now
Zoe: do you wanna talk about Uber? Let's talk about Uber. You can tell me about it. 'cause I didn't listen to that podcast that I was supposed to. Uber baby. Uber. Uber. I was so stubborn. It took me a very long time to download the Uber app.
Really? I was taking taxis up until COVID, basically, like I, I was a taxi girl.
Heather: Really?
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: You know what I find very, it sounds like I feel so bad for the taxis. Um, I did, I'm a very empathy first person always. Even before sobriety. Totally, totally. And I agree with you. Um, but I also feel bad for myself and I like efficiency, so I no longer give a fuck.
Zoe: Yeah. No. [00:43:00] Now I don't take taxis, but I probably was one of my last people in my friend group to download Uber because I was like, no, I'm taking a taxi. I like taxis well, but so stubborn of me. Taxis eventually got the tap. Yeah. But like, it, it took so fucking
Heather: long. But I had cash all the time. 'cause I was working at restaurants, so it didn't really matter.
See, I was poor all the time, so I didn't, I didn't even know if I was gonna be able to fucking mm-hmm. I get, there were times where I had my sister 'cause we lived in the same building. Yeah. I'd have her come down and pay the taxi. 'cause I was like, my credit card is fully maxed out. Yeah. I was drinking on the train on the way here.
Yeah. Like,
Both: yeah. But.
Heather: Yeah, I, I started taking Lyfts in Boston and I remember when Lyft came out first, when they came out first, they all had big, fuzzy pink mustaches on their car. Were you around for? No. You would've been in high school during that time. So it was different
Zoe: in the states also. That's also true too.
Do we have
Heather: Lyft here?
Zoe: Yeah. But I feel like Uber was first here, not Lyft. Okay, okay. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah. So we had Lyft in Boston first, and I remember reading about it, like someone had like gotten into a car [00:44:00] and I was like, oh, who is that? And I like, oh, it's a Lyft. And I was like, what is this? And I remember feeling very nervous about it.
Yeah. And being like, this is just some random guy in a car picking us up. I think the first few Lyfts I took were actually women. Yeah. So I
Zoe: was like,
Heather: okay. But
Zoe: the same thing with taxis. It was a stranger that you're going into his car no matter what. Like it's all taxis were strangers as
Heather: well. The difference between taxi drivers and Uber drivers mm-hmm.
Is that. Taxi drivers report to a company. They are employees. They're employed by Beck Taxi or whatever. Fucking taxi. Yeah. Uber drivers are independent contractors. Okay, so they're not employed by Uber. Yeah, they just work for Uber. Yeah. So that's the difference. Taxis in that sense should be safer because A, they're like always tracked and like they have to report and bring their taxi back at the end of the day.
So it's like, unless it's like a fake taxi, well then you have fucking fake taxis. Yeah. We also had a thing here with Uber. Years ago. A few years ago where, where people were getting killed,
Zoe: right?
Heather: Yes. And people, yeah. McKinley
Zoe: was talking [00:45:00] to me about that actually. Really? Yeah.
Heather: Yeah. 'cause this thing came out like the big blast that was like, make sure you're checking Yeah.
License plates.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And you usually do, but there are some times you're like, I'm at this house. The car pulls up. You're like, I'm getting in now. I check everything. Now I check it. But when I was drinking, I would not check anything. I would just stumble into whoever's car would take me. We were just talking about that.
Yeah. How the fuck you and I got home Sometimes even that, like, I would stumble into a car and it happened to be the Uber. Like how did that fucking happen? Yeah. How did we make it home?
Zoe: Well, even like me biking, like I remember biking to bars. Yeah. And I'd be like, Hey, I am not biking home. I, I'm not gonna bike home because I know I'm gonna be blackout drunk at the end.
And I would wake up with my bike in the living room and I'd be like, what the fuck? I biked home last night. So
Heather: it's so crazy. How did did I do that? Because it's like that drunk, courageous feeling of I can do anything. Yeah. And you're like, nah, I could take the bike crazy. That same feeling of like, I'm not gonna drink today.
And you're like, nah, I'm gonna drink. I'm gonna drink. Same thing, but [00:46:00] damnit the bike. What is it? In our brains, you're like, the bike is covered in mud and I am covered in mud and I will get on this bike.
Zoe: I will do it. God,
Heather: you're so dangerous. Honestly, now I kind of get why you're a little more, you're a little less nervous about biking because you were a drunk biker.
Yeah. Like, I gotta be better than I was. Yeah. Now you're the best one on the road. I really am pretty good. We went to boxing on Monday. We're doing twice a week now. Well, twice a whatever. Yeah. But, and I, four way stop sign, I started to go and these fucking bikers, this group of men, not in their, their like little bike suits.
Mm-hmm. But just like going to work. Right through the stop sign. And then I rolled down my window and I said, why didn't you stop? And then he just went. And I was like, no, no. This isn't for my benefit yet, Dick, this is for you. I'm gonna hit you with my car. Yeah.
Zoe: No, I don't fully stop, but I usually slow down and maneuver with the cars.
Heather: It's just the city isn't right either we can't have bikers or we can't have cars as a [00:47:00] car driver. Honestly, if you've said, no more cars, I'd be like, bummer. Fine. Yeah. And I'll get a bike. So what's happening? So Uber, we listened to this podcast. You listened to it. I listened to this podcast. So this podcast, um, from the Daily, the New York Times podcast.
Yeah. Um, hosted by Natalie Kitr, featuring Emily Steele. Okay. So Emily Steele's, the one, two women. Two women. Okay. Love. Um, Emily Steele's, the one that's like really telling the story. Okay. So basically if you guys wanna listen to this podcast, it's called Every eight Minutes. Uber's Alarming Sexual Violence Problem Every eight Minutes.
Yeah. Is that true? Yeah, babe. Yeah, babe. So yeah. Every, which is just like, let that sink in every eight minutes. There's sexual abuse in an Uber. Okay. Sexual. Sexual violence. Sexual harassment. Uber is meant to be a, a safe transportation. Yeah. Right. Like that is what it is. Uber was put in place, largely marketing for things like don't [00:48:00] drink and drive.
Yeah. You know, don't be walking alone as women. Don't be walking alone at night. Easy call an Uber. Yeah. My dad is always like, call an Uber. Call an Uber. And I'm like, I live two minutes away. Yeah. That would be crazy.
Both: Yeah.
Heather: But it's like safety first. Safety first. However we can kind of imagine getting into a car with a stranger isn't always gonna be super safe.
No, we think it should be because they're employed. Right. This is an employee. Mm-hmm. Of Uber wrong. This is a independent contractor that works under Uber. Yeah. So. What that means is just basically they have no one to report to. Yeah. Like they don't have a supervisor, they don't have a boss that's like, Hey, where are you?
Your car says this. Or like, how many, why can't they have videos mandatory inside the cars as well? Well, it's funny you should bring that up, my friend Zhan. Yeah. 2018 there was a new CEO that came in mm-hmm. For Uber, and he was very excited about [00:49:00] this plan to have dash cam footage or like recording devices.
Mm-hmm. In the car, on the dashboard. Yeah. Facing so we could watch the whole thing. Yeah. It was an extremely cheap option and it was extremely doable, affordable, easy to implement. Okay. Not a big fucking deal. Okay. Okay. But it was turned down because it would go against Uber's policy of general contractors.
So if you're a general contractor, you can't be filmed by someone because they're not your employee. Right. So you're just driving your car, you're just a man, like you're just a man driving a car and now they wanna put a camera in your car. Well, fuck you. This is my car. But can't it be like, for only when you're like working?
Is it on, like why? No, it doesn't matter. They cannot implement it. Apparently that's now there is an option. I think in early days of Uber, there was an option on our phones that could say like, record. Yeah. And like maybe their phones were, would, would record or [00:50:00] something like that. But I've never even heard of that.
I've never heard of that. No. No. Also, what am I, I'm gonna just sit and record my Uber driver the whole time. That's Yeah. It
Zoe: seems crazy.
Heather: It seems crazy until you hear these fucking stats. Okay. Tell me. Massive underreporting. Okay. The number that Uber gave of sexual assaults, now they gave kind of like a, a tear thing.
It's like serious sexual assault and just like. Kind of harassment. Mm. And that is a bunch of men deciding what's what, right? Yeah. So fuck off. Yeah.
Zoe: All serious.
Heather: It was reported like 27,000 sexual assaults between the year of 2017 and 2022. That's insane. That was widely under reported. The real number. Are you ready?
Okay. The real number, they said 27,000. The real number. 400,181. Sexual assaults and harassment
Both: in the States Accusations?
Heather: Yep. In the [00:51:00] states. And about 100,000 of them were serious assaults. Now serious assaults, classify as rape and like. Entering someone's body. Yeah. Right. And like, and touching. Touching too, but that's not serious assault to them, right?
Yeah. So like putting a hand back, what's has happened to Zoe and I in fucking Ubers? Like, yeah. Putting their hand back. Grazing your thigh. That does not count as a serious sexual assault. Now this is also the ones that were reported. How many fucking times have you and I been in an Uber and something crazy happened and we're just like, I need to go to bed.
Yeah. How many times has that fucking happened?
Zoe: Well, I'm just thinking of like all the times that Yes, I stumble in an Uber at the end of the night and then I wake up in my bed and I'm like, how did I go from being passed out in an Uber?
Both: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: To being tucked into bed. Yeah. How did I manage to be passed out in my Uber and wake up in bed?
Did I miraculously get up and walk myself into the condo? I [00:52:00] do. If I did, I did. I would love to see the footage of that. But
Heather: sometimes when you're in
Zoe: a blackout, you act like a super fucking normal person. I don't know. I've seen a lot of my blackout friends. Like I try to fucking wake them up and they will not fucking wake up.
Yeah. So I'm like, if I, if they're not waking up, I don't think I was waking up, babe. I don't think I was waking up.
Heather: I got roofed at a bar in St. Mark's place in New York with my friend Jackie and I got in an Uber. Mm-hmm. And I got home and I did wake up. I think he slapped me, not slapped me, but he turned around and was like, Hey.
Yeah, sorry. And then I had to walk up five flights of stairs in my doc Martins, and then was asleep in my boots. Yeah. So like, I don't know if it's like a, that fear of being a woman and being attacked is so deeply ingrained in our bodies that like, when it's our time to get outta the car, it's our time. I, I have no idea.
I have no
Zoe: idea either. But like, uh, all I know is that we were both passed out in a lot of Ubers. Yeah. Okay. And those stats are high. Those stats are
Heather: high. I did have an Uber driver. [00:53:00] Walk me into my condo once. Mm-hmm. Hand me over to the security guard and say, please come with her. Please escort her up to her room.
She is out of her mind. Yeah. That was really kind though. He was not mad at me. He felt bad. He was a dad. That was really kind. Yeah. Now Uber, not only is tracking has all the information of sexual assaults, they're lying about a, to protect the image. Right? Because the image of Uber is a safe way to move around the city.
So if
Zoe: a driver gets like alleged with sexual sexual assault, is he allowed to drive
Heather: again? Yeah. So if a driver is accused of sexual assault, it's on him. It's not on Uber because he's a general contractor. Okay. In one of these cases, Uber actually turned around and sued the driver.
Zoe: Hmm.
Heather: And took no accountability.
Mind you. Okay. But these drivers, he wasn't able,
Zoe: allowed to. He wasn't allowed to drive again or what?
Heather: That one, I don't know. Or does
Zoe: he just drive for a
Heather: different company like Lyft? That one, I don't know. It really depends. Yeah. Now, what I will tell you is that there are options on Uber, [00:54:00] right? Mm-hmm.
There's Uber Black, Uber, Excel, Uber Eco, and then Uber Basic. Mm-hmm. Uber basic is the most basic of options. It is the cheapest option. The way that Uber ranks cars is not just based on the cars, it's based on the safety and the driver.
Both: Hmm.
Heather: So. I'm a person and I don't have that much money, and I'm trying to get to school.
Yeah. I'm gonna choose Uber basic and that person, it's very possible that he has been involved in a sexual assault case, because if you're doing unserious sexual assault, you still get to drive. It's fine. You just get a black mark and you get bumped down, but you can still drive. And now we're fucking picking up people of lower income.
So we're putting those fucking people at risk.
Zoe: Do you get a lower rating though? Like if you, I guess like you would have lower ratings, I would assume You have,
Heather: if you're molesting everybody, you would have a lower rating. But like I've, I, I don't, I mean, I don't know if I've ever gotten like a lower rating.
It's pretty good. But like I, I don't know what happens if you have like one zero. Yeah. And the rest is like four, [00:55:00] 4.5. I don't know if it really brings you down. Do you get Uber excels or do you get basics? Oh, I've never, I never get basics. I get Uber X, oh, Uber excel's like a big one. Uber X is like the one that's like, it's just do they have
Zoe: Uber basic here?
I think they just Uber have Uber X. They have, because I've never heard of an Uber basic, now that I'm thinking about it. Yeah. Uber X, Uber, black. Black. SUV, that's it. Well, Uber green Comfort.
Heather: Yeah. Share, Uber. Share. So share is the same. Share is also the same. So I think in the States they probably do have states and in different cities they have different things.
Different things depending on like, um, economic status. I didn't know
Zoe: that You can call a taxi through Uber. Yeah, they work for Uber too. Oh. Everything is owned by Uber now. Yeah. So damn. Really? Every, every big company is just like endorsing sexual assault. Eh? That's the fucking
Heather: thing. That's the thing. So I'm a college student.
Yeah. I don't have that much money. I'm trying to get to class or the bar or the [00:56:00] this. Mm-hmm. And I have to get an Uber basic, or an Uber eco or whatever the cheapest option is. And that person that, and it doesn't necessarily mean that that person is a bad person. No. What it means is that bad people who commit sexual harassment and sexual assault are still allowed to drive for Uber.
They are not. Yeah. Nobody is told that these are dangerous people. They're not restricted to only picking up men. Yeah. They are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want. It's insane. And I would really just like to bring back the piece of like most people getting those Ubers are,
Zoe: it's Are women.
Heather: They're women, but there are also people of a lower income status because that's just the one you're picking.
You're not picking Uber X. Well,
Zoe: yeah.
Heather: So now we're like saying that marginalized people and people with lower incomes are more at risk. Their safety is more at risk because they have less money and the people that are assholes get to keep driving them around. It's insane. Uber knows when and where it is most at risk.
For sexual violence. So [00:57:00] basically picking people up from bars, picking single women up from bars, things like that. They know which is obvious. That's, yeah, that's obvious. It's just like, but they know that and they allow the lower tiered cars to pick people up from the bar. Drunk girls.
Zoe: It's making me really feel really fucking weird right now, knowing all that shit, to be honest.
Yeah. Um, yep. I don't like it.
Both: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Yeah. Well, also going back to like, women are never really seen, I think I've only gotten two women Uber drivers in my life and I was so excited to see them.
Heather: Oh yeah. Oh, and you're gonna, under this stat is not gonna shock you at all. Yeah. But obviously there's way more men, Uber drivers than women.
Yeah. Yeah. 'cause men inherently love to drive or whatever,
Zoe: but, well, it's just like, why would a woman wanna be an Uber driver? They're. God. Oh God. That's so risky as a woman to be alone in a car with, to pick up strangers with a male. Yeah. Yeah. [00:58:00] No way. Fucking, no way. No way. Even if you have the wheel, you're not in control.
Heather: Well there's also like another article by this woman and she talks about how she was an Uber driver. Mm-hmm. And she was assaulted so many times. Yeah. And terrified. And like you kind of know like when people are getting into your car, you get a vibe and you kind of know like, fuck, this is not gonna be a good one.
And then you're stuck in a car with them. Like, no, of course women don't wanna be uber drivers. Definitely not. So there are more men. Yeah. And also like 98% of the assaults that happen are male passengers or male drivers. Yeah. So like male passengers will assault female drivers. Yeah. And male drivers as well.
Yeah. But male drivers will assault female PA passengers. Men are pretty safe. Yeah. I'm assuming the L-G-B-T-Q group is like not safe either. Yeah, but also for other reasons too. Harassment in general, but it's fucking crazy. Well, I think that brings us back to. Just what you and I were talking about that like, it's so scary to think back and be like, I gotta get [00:59:00] myself home in the middle of the night.
Mm-hmm. And like you risk your life already getting into a car with a stranger. But also like we
Zoe: are risking our lives every day with drinking, with drinking. Sure. So it's like why? Like that wasn't any scarier to me because like I'm already risking my life drinking every day. Sure. But we also didn't know how fucking
Heather: dangerous it is.
Yeah. And how like it, I'm sorry, but if you assault somebody in your car or a passenger assault somebody, that person, that driver or that passenger, never get to fucking work for Uber again. You cannot handle it. Yeah. You cannot handle having a woman in your car. Why? Like.
Zoe: Is there people who are like protesting this, like saying, what the fuck Uber?
Like, can we not have these people that are accused drive still? Like what is happening with that? So there
Heather: was like an internal conflict at Uber where some people were like, let go or quit. Because some of the, it wasn't even just women. Some of these people were saying that work there, we're [01:00:00] saying, Hey, we have all this data.
Yeah. That not only shows who's a risky person. Yeah. A dangerous person. It shows where these things take place. It shows at what time we have this data. We can also create policy and protocol. Yeah. That make it safe, safer for women. And a lot of that would be fucking fuck off if you're an assaulter. Like you can't drive.
But they had all of this. When the Trump administration came in this time. I wonder if it's different in Canada at all. No, no. I mean, there's less people in Canada, so there's just obviously gonna be less crime. Yeah. But no, it's the same. We have the same fucking shit everywhere. Yeah. But, um, oh, what was I gonna say?
Trump administration, when the Trump administration came in, they just kinda stopped looking at it. Hmm. Like the funding for that. Just kind of, we're not doing it. Like they are not interested
Zoe: and, and there's, this needs to be more of a forefront issue because that is insane to me. Mm-hmm. That these people are continuing to drive and you know that they're fucking sick and [01:01:00] gonna keep doing it.
Heather: Oh, I want, you know, they're not
Zoe: gonna stop. And I wanted to say,
Heather: because
Zoe: they got in trouble a little bit.
Heather: No, they're not gonna stop. Yeah. And I bring up the Trump administration just to say that a lot of his policies cut, um, funding to like safety protocols and this, things like that. Yeah. So that's why that's relevant.
Um, yeah. It says here. The cheapest rides are the highest risk testing in 2018. Showed Uber could predict and prevent 15% of all assaults on basic ride options, but still dispatches their high risk drivers.
Zoe: Yeah. Like, it's just like, no, I feel like no one's talking about this. I haven't heard of that. Mm-hmm.
Have you ever gotten into an Uber like I being a sober person? I, well, before when I was getting into Ubers, I didn't feel a thing 'cause I was drinking all the time and I wasn't, I never felt unsafe because I was so out of my mind now being sober and getting into an Uber. Mm-hmm. I feel [01:02:00] anxious all the time.
I, I always thought that it was because I don't have control. Mm-hmm. When I'm biking home or if I'm walking home or if I'm taking a streetcar, I feel like I'm in more control than when I'm in an Uber.
Both: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: With a man. And I thought that was just it. But it must also be the fact that yes, I am in a car with a stranger.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: It is a weird situation and I do now feel like the, I don't take Ubers often, but when I do, it's like, oh, I do get a little bit sick in my tummy.
Heather: Yeah.
Zoe: I thought it was the control thing for me, but it probably is also the stranger in a car with me as well.
Heather: Yeah, 100%. They, they did do a rollout in Saudi Arabia actually, where it was women drivers being matched with women passengers.
Yeah. Probably because there is more of a issue with women's safety. Yeah. So it was like, okay, here we go. And then they were gonna implement it in the states. That was also [01:03:00] cut because of Trump. Yeah. Yeah. Because not Trump didn't cut it. Yeah. Uber cut it. Yeah. Because when he came back into office, the second term, the funding, this is when, no, no, no.
This is when they were gonna roll that out. Women for women drivers. Right. And then they said. With everything politically going on right now, it's just not the time for our image. They said that like with, with everything political going on in the world, it's gonna cause like a gender divide and fights and like, oh, well now we have to hire women because you know, DEI and like all that.
So they're just like, we're not doing it.
Zoe: I'm sure that would employ a lot of women because if I was a woman and I needed like extra money Yeah, for sure. I would be a woman Uber driver if I were knew I was only picking up other women. Yeah, for sure. But also then what's the line of like what if you're a woman picking up another woman?
Yeah. And she has her boyfriend with her, then the lines get blurry.
Heather: Yeah. And maybe you can't do that. Yeah. Like maybe. And, and, and it's [01:04:00] not crazy. I think we got some backlash on TikTok. Of course. Yeah. Because we talked about how I feel. I was in a car with like a professional moay Thai bear knuckle fighter.
Yeah. And I was saying that like, that's crazy that I'm in a car with a strange man who could kill me. Yeah. Like, I don't know this person. And then people were like, well, fuck you men, not all men. And you're like, okay. But I, um, it's super fucking relevant because that's what we were talking about. Yeah. And that's why we bring
Zoe: this up to like say, Hey guys, no, we're not wrong.
Yeah. All women are scared in Ubers no matter what. I'm sorry. And also like, yeah. If you are getting into an Uber, like this is not of like, don't get into an Uber because like then you're gonna walk home. And the risk there is. Probably higher than well going into an Uber. Yeah. Would you say like, walking home is more risky than getting into an Uber?
100%. So go, still go into Ubers guys. Yeah. So just be mindful and be aware that this is happening and share [01:05:00] your location with someone that is awake
Heather: and yes, share your location with someone that's awake. And also like, maybe we're not getting into Uber's drunk on our own. And I know that that is No, but
Zoe: that's like a, I know that that's gonna happen no matter what.
Heather: I know. But also maybe for other people listening that are like, oh, that's my friend. She's going home. Maybe you'll listen to this and be like, actually, you know what,
Zoe: go with her.
Heather: Yeah. Or like take two stops. The, the safety of it all. Yeah. Because we can't sit here and be like, well, well stop taking Ubers or Good luck.
Yeah. I also am like remiss to say like, don't take the cheapest Uber, because that's not fucking accessible. Yeah. No it's not. It's really not. Uber's so expensive and. So you can't say, don't take the cheapest. And also
Zoe: Uber is so expensive on a at 2:00 AM on a Friday, Saturday night. Yeah. It's like 40 bucks sometimes to get to one end of the city.
Yeah. Plus. Mm-hmm. So it's like, yeah, you have to take the cheapest option.
Both: Mm-hmm.
Zoe: Just you have to, hopefully you're not blackout drunk. Yeah. Well, or hopefully you always have [01:06:00] your location shared with
Heather: someone. Uber has all these statistics and they can prevent. Assault. They can prevent this kind of to crime.
They not, they choose not to so that they can keep profiting. Yeah. They literally put people at risk mm-hmm. To make money, which is fucking gross and insane.
Zoe: But that is like all, everything, big companies. Yeah. You know, like this isn't a abnormal or unusual situation. Yeah. This is the way the world works, unfortunately.
Heather: Yeah. And if Uber's not gonna tell you how to keep yourself fucking safe, we will. Yeah. I have one of those birdie alarms. Yes. That when you pull it, it fucking screams. Good. Do you have one? No, I actually get you one. I love it. But those are great. Keep it in your purse.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: Also, like we don't have, we're not allowed to carry pocket.
Well, the line
Zoe: is blurry with
Heather: that. The line is so blurry in this states. I remember during COVID. Yeah. Do you remember those girls on TikTok that were making like self-defense key chains? Yeah. I was like, fuck, I want one of these. But we are, we're not allowed to have. Knives and we're not allowed to have pepper spray.
Even
Zoe: if, if someone assaulted us and [01:07:00] we knifed them, we would get in trouble. Which is so insane of Canada.
Heather: Yeah,
Zoe: yeah,
Heather: yeah. It really is. I'm like, I should be allowed to defend myself. Yeah. But then you get into the like, I should be allowed to defend myself. I want a gun. And like, yeah. We don't want it done.
We don't want
Zoe: guns.
Heather: I just share
Zoe: my location with a lot of my friends. Yeah. And, and then do you text each other when you get home? Like if you're all leaving together? I mean, like I feel like now I don't because I'm sober. Yeah. Okay. I feel like my friends that are drinking, yes. But when I left my friends last week, uh, my friend was like, please text me when you're home, because I was biking, so I texted that.
Yeah. I think I do that to you too. Yeah. I'd be very nervous. I also track you. I was like, also I, we track each other. Yeah. We're like, okay, everyone is home safe. Like I have all my friends on my. Map. And I'm like, okay, everyone is in their beds. Goodnight. Yeah. Shut my eyes. That's cute. That's a really, you just like,
Heather: goodnight.
Goodnight, goodnight. Goodnight night. Everyone is in the right. Love you.
Zoe: This one is not, but we don't, we're okay with
Heather: [01:08:00] that. Excuse me. Where are you? Did you fall down? Yeah, she's with a boy. Fantastic. Okay. I, uh, I, the birdie alarm is great also. We're not allowed to have pepper spray, but honestly I don't really give a fuck.
But I have bear spray. Bear spray. You're allowed to
Zoe: carry that coyote spray
Heather: and coyote. That would be amazing. And they're just like a little tampon tube. Like it's just little, you just put it in your little pocket. Yeah. I will say one thing that's extremely hard for people and those people being me.
Yeah. I am like a polite girl. I've been raised to keep my head down and be polite now. Yeah. Yeah. I'm swearing all over the internet. Who gives a fuck? But like in social situations, I'm super polite with strangers. I'm super polite. I give, are you
Zoe: talkative?
Heather: Fuck no. When I was drunk, I was, I was like, let's get the life story baby.
Yeah. And now I'm like,
Zoe: yeah, I sh I put my headphones on, I shut up. I don't know if the right thing is to like not engage with them because maybe then they're like, okay, I am gonna leave this one alone. She's not cool,
Heather: you know? Well, the scary thing about that is that you never know what's gonna trigger someone.
So ignoring a man might make them go off. Sure. Or speaking with a man might make them [01:09:00] feel like you're, um, asking for it. Yeah. Flirting with them and you wanna be fucked in the back of their weird car.
Zoe: Oh my God. I didn't tell you, but I was at the pool the other day. Mm-hmm. And then my pool like, looks at this building that's being built, like construction guys are there.
Mm-hmm. And this one guy was like, Hey, to me at like tanning at my pool. And I was like feeling like I was in a good mood. I said, Hey back. And I threw like a little heart. Just silly, cute. And then he did the heart back and then he kept fucking yelling at me throughout the whole day. I said, oh, this was the biggest mistake of my life.
Did you ignore the rest of the thing? I ignored the rest. Yeah, but he continued, but he continued. He kept yelling. He kept like trying to wave me down throughout like the four hours at I was at the pool. I am just trying to be like nice and like funny and like cute. That's not me saying hi and like throwing you a heart is not me asking for you to like fuck me, you know?
No. It's just
Heather: me trying to not immediately say. Fuck you. It's me [01:10:00] trying to be like kind of nice and just, I'm just
Zoe: like, Hey, like, what's up? Yeah. Have a, I'm at the pool. Like whatever. Fucking, yeah. I'm just having a good time. That doesn't invite you to harass me throughout the fucking rest of the day
Heather: at the pool.
That's what I think. I think that people don't understand what no means. No actually means. Yeah. It's like, yeah, like if
Zoe: I'm ignoring you, take the hint baby. This is also reminding me of, I was biking home on like a Saturday night and this car like pulls up because there's traffic. Mm-hmm. And I'm just waiting there in the bike and the guy just says to me, how's biking tonight?
And I look forward and I don't make eye contact with him. I don't even. Like Twitch at all. I'm just like, oh my God.
Heather: Yeah. But have you ever done that? And then they go, fucking bitch.
Zoe: Well, they, he just didn't say anything after. Yeah. I'm like, thank God. But like,
Heather: it shocks the men when you, it shocks them.
Don't engage. That's why like in my older age, age don't engage. I'm doing my best to not engage. Yeah. Like someone cat called me the other day and I just was like, this is an insane thing to do, to yell at a woman you [01:11:00] don't know. Yeah. About her tits. Like, that's super weird. You about your tits. Yeah. And I was like, you fucking creepy pedophile.
I'm a child. Um, you are baby. You're so tiny, so small. Thank you so much. Um, when did I tell you about the time I was in New York? I'm in, I'm in New York a lot. This episode? Yes. Who's a New York queen? I was in New York and I was, I got in a taxi and I was going wherever the fuck I was going. It was at night.
Probably like 11 though. It wasn't super fucking late. Yeah. It's also New York, so I. Got in a taxi and like he was chatting and I didn't wanna chat, but when he drove, this was like also kind of before Uber or like in the midst of it. But he drove up and I saw him go, like, he gave me like a wink and a nod and kind of like in a lick your lips kind of way.
And I was like, oh, oh no. But I'm like a kid. I was probably like 19 and I was like, I have to get in this fucking car. Got in the car. I'm not going that far. He's chatting now. He's chatting. What do you do? What do you do? You must be a model. You must be a model really? And like, no. Yeah, I was not Must be a model.
Yeah. [01:12:00] It was not like that. I was just, and I'm trying to be fucking nice. Yeah. If I stop talking, you're gonna get mad and call me a bitch. It's happened before.
Both: Yeah.
Heather: So I finally pull up to where I need to go and I have this feeling, I'm like, he's not gonna fucking let me outta the car. I had that feeling.
Mm-hmm. And so I grabbed the lock and when the lock is like pushed up. So it was unlocked. Yeah. And I grabbed the lock and then I, and then he locked it, but I was holding it so all the other ones locked. Yeah. And I was holding this one up. You're so smart. I just knew he was, yeah. I knew he was gonna fucking do it and I wasn't drinking at all.
Yeah. Like I was super sober. And then he was like, stay in the car. And I, I was. It's delusional, right? Yeah. Because you're like, this can't be happening. Yeah. And I was looking around to see maybe if there's like a bike or something happening outside that I shouldn't, but I'm like, no, you're literally holding luck.
He wants you to stay in the fucking car. Yeah. And he was like, stay in the car. Come on, come on. Just stay with me. And then I just like, I was like, fuck you. And I opened the car and ran. Ran. Didn't pay. No. And there was a hotel and I like ran into the hotel and I was shaking. Your inspiration
Zoe: is [01:13:00] really strong.
I will give you that. It is really
Heather: strong because we are witches. Well, because, and we practice the witchcraft. And my mother is a witch. Yes. And my mother watches true crime and my mother is the one who told us like, if a car ever pulls up beside you and tells you to get in or I'll shoot you, just tell them to shoot you.
She's like, 'cause you could survive a gunshot wound to the head more than you're gonna be able to survive being raped a man. Yeah. Yeah. Well being raped and then also shot and killed. But um, yeah, my intuition, I really fucking follow it and I don't care at this point. Sometimes I feel bad. Yeah. And then sometimes I'm like, for what?
Literally keeping myself safe.
Both: Yeah.
Heather: But that was a scary one. I wish I had had something on me. I, I, I, oh, what I was gonna say is that I think women tend to wanna be polite and not rock the boat and not cause chaos. Right. Especially when you're in the car, a locked car with a man. But I think if you feel uncomfortable in a car, you just get out.
You just, especially an Uber, because it's on your phone, they'll just, they'll, you'll pay regardless. But it's like, if you're [01:14:00] uncomfortable, it's okay. It's use your voice and get the fuck out. You don't have to stay with someone just to appease them. It really is like. Get the fuck outta the car. You don't have to stay in the car.
Trust your intuition. Yeah. Your
Zoe: intuition is usually right. Yep. It's not worth it to risk it. It's not worth it.
Heather: It really isn't. And it's also like not okay to have men be super fucking creepy and give you a weird vibe. I think the intuition piece. Yeah. Getting a little security alarm. Just like being aware.
Yeah. And I think that's the scary part of being, about being like a drunk girl. Yeah. Is that like an Uber?
Zoe: Nothing. Ha. Nothing matters to me if I'm drunk. Well, I don't fucking care if I'm gonna get raped and killed in the back of a car, to be honest. I don't, but Right. We don't want that to happen to you.
No. And some people do care. Yeah. But like, if. If you're a drunk like me. Yeah. You wanna die anyways, so like, whatever.
Heather: Sure. But if you're not a drunk like me and Zoe and you don't wanna die and you just wanna have fun with your friends, but you're drunk. Yeah. You should be able to get into a car and go [01:15:00] home.
Like the car is supposed to be your safe haven. Yeah. Before you go home.
Zoe: Yeah. So there's things that you can set up to make sure you're safe and Yeah. I don't want this to be like a fearmongering thing of like be fearful at all times. Like, I don't want that. I just want to like,
Heather: yeah. I think there's a difference between present this.
Yeah. And you shouldn't be scared. You should be prepared.
Zoe: Yeah. And I think that's the truth.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. As a woman walking around this world, you, you do. And I know that's a little bleak, but you do need to be prepared and mm-hmm. That's what I was gonna say. Being a drunk girl and you need to have your wits about you.
I'm like, you fucking don't. Like I would get into a car and then be like. Yeah, I know. I'd be like, okay. Like my wits are exhausted now. Yeah. But I will say like friends, partners, boyfriends, girlfriends just be parents. Like whatever. Yeah. Whoever
Zoe: you have that like has got you. Like, you know who you have.
And just think like,
Heather: people who have jobs, drivers, they're, they're still people. Yeah. And people fuck up. And just because you work for a company that is supposed to be safe doesn't mean you're a safe person. It means you're a person who wants [01:16:00] to make money. Yeah. So trust yourself, keep yourself safe. And also we're fucking right.
So don't come for us in saying that driving in men, in cars of men is safe because it's fucking not 400,000 assaults. Okay. It's fucking not.
Zoe: Yeah. That's insane. That's really sad.
Heather: But with all that said, Zoe Francisca Chan, thank you for being such a good friend to me always. And especially this week. I love you so much.
I love you so much.
Zoe: I'm here for you always. I'm here for you always. My little un drunky poo-poos drunky pose, and
Heather: I'm proud of
Zoe: you. I'm proud of you soon. Proud of you.
Heather: Proud of you.
Zoe: Bye
Heather: bye.
Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Undrunk podcast and or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com. Good podcast. Good pod. Good pod. God. God, you're still [01:17:00] so fucking tanned. I know. But then again, you're
Both: tanning all the time.
Heather: That's my, it's a lifestyle.
It slings out and so.
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