#14: Tip to Tail: Part 1 (Heather’s Story)
This week, Heather tells Part 1 of her story—tip to tail. School chaos, a recurring eating disorder, little lies, big feelings, and the winding road to getting sober. It's not a straight line... but is it ever?
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Tip to Tail: Part 1 Transcript
[00:00:00]
Heather: This podcast covers sensitive topics that may be difficult for some listeners. Please take care while listening.
I was gonna say something. No, I was gonna say that we should like do like a big scream just to get it out. 'cause I went to other ship with my boyfriend last week and we screamed in a dark room together in the sauna and it really felt amazing.
Should we scream into the pillows? Should we hold it and scream? Okay. Let's scream into something. Get it out. It's gonna be a deep pod. Hit myself with the thing. Do you want this pillow? Yeah, I fucking, let's do it. Let's trees in my way. Oh my God. Okay. 5, 6, 7.
That was good. Holy shit. I needed that so bad. You wanna do it again? Yeah, I,[00:01:00]
okay.
Welcome back. Welcome back to Girl Undrunk. I'm Heather. And I'm Zoe. Yeah.
We're both a little bit on the edge right now. Yeah. How clearly. She is on edge. I'm on edge. Um, I, how. How are you, Zoe?
Well, we just both screamed into a pillow that felt actually really good and cathartic, and I needed to do that. I think I needed that too. I am holding a lot of stuff in and I feel like my throat chakras closed.
Zoe have, Zoe and I have had a week, separate, weeks separately. Separate weeks, but both horrible [00:02:00] weeks. Yeah. Like feeling mentally and physically. I'm not feeling good. Yeah. I have a halls in my throat right now, which I really hope that you can't hear me like playing with. Mm-hmm. Um, I'll just tell everyone it's your tongue ring.
Did you ever think about having a tongue ring? No. No. No. Me neither. I just, I knew I couldn't pull that off. No, I don't. I, I, the throwing up would freak me out. Like if you throw up, did you have your belly button pierced or your nipples pierced? No, I had one nipple pierced. Okay. I had my nose pierced. Yeah.
And then like all of these. Mm. But that's it. I had both my nipples. You did? I did. When did you take them out? And my belly button. Oh my God. Did you ever touch them with a, a chain? One of them fell out when I was drunk. Mm-hmm. And I feel like my friend's nose ring fell out and I gave her one of my nipple rings when I was drunk too.
And then like, they both ended up just filling in. See, you're a good caring friend. I'm a good caring person. Yes. Whatever my friends need, I help and support them. Yeah. Yep. [00:03:00] But no, someone is angry at me and there's nothing I can do to Yeah. Make it better, you know? So really interesting. I just have to accept them to being mad at me, and that's, that's just what it is.
How do you feel like when, because I, I get the feeling of like, feeling like you're in trouble. Yeah. What does that do in terms of your mental health and sobriety? Oh my god. Awful. Mm-hmm. I felt it. All this went down on Wednesday. I had a bad day at work. Something happened at work and then it just escalated to more personal stuff.
And when it was all happening, like my body was shaking. Mm-hmm. I couldn't stop crying. I was on FaceTime with my boyfriend and I was like, oh my God, I'm ugly crying right now in front of you. Yeah. This is not good. But then I think I just called my sponsor and I don't know what it is about talking to my sponsor, but it does immediately make me feel better saying I'm, I've done nothing wrong.
Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. Like, I'm in the right, [00:04:00] whatever. It's what I want to do. Mm-hmm. Um, it did make me feel more relaxed, but it's not like I have gotten a good sleep since Wednesday and I really think that this is why I'm getting sick. Yeah. Because my immune system is like so stressed out. Yeah. And vulnerable.
I know. And it's not good. Like, we do all this stuff like for our mental health and then you like get trapped in this like. Is it my fault? Am I the worst? No. And I always think it's my fault. I don't know if that's like something to do with childhood, but I think like I'm always wrong and it's always my fault.
Yeah. Well was it your fault when you were a kid?
Like were you the one that like grew up and it was like you were the problem child? I don't think so. And maybe I just like wanted to take the blame on myself. Yeah. 'cause I'm a good person, you know? Yeah. So I'm like, okay, yeah, it's my fault. It's also just like comparatively like that situation compared to what we've been through is so like, well, I'm abysmal.
I just really didn't think that I would [00:05:00] be going through situations like I'm in being sober. Mm-hmm. Because, yeah, people were upset with me all the time when I was drinking. Yeah. I'm used to that and yeah, you can call me names when I'm drunk 'cause I deserve that. I deserve the worst ever and I don't deserve anything when I'm like an alcoholic and active of addiction, I don't deserve anything Now that I'm sober and I know my worth when someone speaks out.
On my character, I can't handle it, and I shut down. Well, that's like one of the biggest things we learned in rehab is like, if you're gonna call someone an asshole mm-hmm. It's like, no, they're not an asshole. They're acting like an asshole. Yeah. Or they're being an asshole in this moment. Or, and maybe tell them why.
Yeah. You think why they're, why you think that they're being like that. Yeah. And what it's making you feel. Yeah. But to, you know, to, to get a comment that's just so wildly out of touch and just like the opposite of who you are. Mm-hmm. Like me reading that, I'm like, oh, you don't know or care about this person at all.
And if you did, you'd never speak to them that way. Yeah. Like, if you pissed me off, I wouldn't be like, I'm gonna [00:06:00] come at you with all these swear words and then like, fuck you forever, essentially. Yeah, exactly. I'd be like, Hey, so the fuck was that? Hey, let's talk this out. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. In the first year of sobriety, you're all just like, you're trying to just keep going and figure out the next day and figure out the next day, you know, day by day.
And then after you have a year, you're kind of like, okay, I got this now what? Yeah. You know? So. But now I find that I'm, things still come up. Yeah. Even though you're sober, things are still gonna come up into your life and you have to deal with them and not drink. You have to deal with them. And you also can't go home and drink about it later.
Yeah. You can't be like, this person pissed me off, or This hurts me so bad, but it's okay because I'm gonna get to drink later and that's the only thing I ever really wanna do. So whatever. But now, like you said before, it's like we're you hold grudges, you feel like more in sobriety than you did in addiction?
Well, because I couldn't hold a grudge in when I was drinking because I deserved all the hate and like negativity at me because I [00:07:00] didn't deserve anything. Well, it's like when I was drinking's, are you really gonna hold a grudge on me? Really, really drunkie. Okay. Exactly. But now I do feel like that, like now that I'm two years sober.
Mm-hmm. I, I do feel like in the first year, I, I had, yeah. Like you said, day by day I'm like, this is actually, I'm in a really good mood because I'm working on something. I have like all this gratification. I'm like, okay, I'm doing this, this, this, and things are getting better. Mm-hmm. Now that I'm two years sober and even a year sober, I'm like looking around the world and being like, there's a lot of fucked up shit going on.
Yeah. And like a lot of it feels personal. Yeah. You know, and I, I have a lot of rage inside me and it is something I'm working on, but that's also part of being sober. Mm-hmm. Is like going through these phases. Yeah. Figuring out what, what's going on in my body. Everything I've missed in the past 10 years.
It's like, it's not gonna be super clean. Yeah. Like, it might be super negative sometimes. No. And like, I feel like the past, what three podcasts we've done, both of us have been like very. Levelheaded. Yeah. We're [00:08:00] like solid seven or eights, like for the mental health check-in. Yeah. This is like one of the weeks where it's like, no, it's not a fun week.
Yeah. And, but we're still maintaining our sobriety and putting ourselves first. Mm-hmm. And that's all that really matters. All the other energy around us, we don't have to bring it in. Yeah. If we don't choose to. I think like a really big thing I've learned in sobriety is that like, I know myself mm-hmm.
Like getting, I know I'm a good person, getting sober. I know my intentions. Mm-hmm. I know what I want. Mm-hmm. I know how I feel about other people and I know that I care deeply about other people. Yeah. And so when things come at you like that, when it's against your character, you're like, you don't see me, babe.
Yeah. And then it's like sad that they don't see you. Yeah. Yeah. But they're loss. Yeah. Let's see how that plays out. I mean, everything, everyone, everything happens the way it's supposed to. Yeah. People need time. And my friend did say to me like, when I start was. Contemplating about starting this [00:09:00] podcast with you.
I was like, oh, well what if I say things and people don't like that I'm talking about it? And what if they're upset with me? What if I lose friendships? Mm-hmm. What if I lose relationships like sexually? Yeah. And she's like, babe, if you lose someone over something that you said on the podcast Yeah. Then they're not your people.
No. They're not your people. People who I know that love me. Like the thing. You really can't say the wrong thing to the right person. Yeah. And we all say things sometimes that are like gonna piss someone off or you, you interpret things the wrong way. You, you're, you're sensitive to things. Yeah. But you have to sit with it, reflect, and then maybe have a real conversation with me and don't come at me like that.
Yeah. Especially if you're drinking. Yeah. And everything that we say on this podcast is from our point of view. Yeah. And everything that we say on this podcast, we relate it to how we felt in that moment and how it pertains to our sobriety. Yeah. I don't think we're out here trying to shit talk anybody.
Mm-hmm. At least I'm not. I don't think you are. No. [00:10:00] It all comes from a place of like love and care and we want to help someone who's trying to get sober. Yeah. Get sober and see that this is possible and it's a beautiful way to live your life. It really is. And there's a lot more that goes into it than just like our individual story.
There's so many factors, so many things and eras and events and people. Yeah. But like we do have to tell our stories. Yeah. And yeah, we'll be careful. Yeah. But like Exactly. Sometimes you get caught in the crossfire. I was collateral for so many people. So many people. So you know, I love everybody and same, there's nobody in my life that I'm gonna like actively try and hurt.
No. Because I think everyone in my life really does love me. Yeah. And has like done the best that they can to like either be my sister or raise a kid. Mm-hmm. Or like be, you know, a friend and you know, people are doing the best at any given time and sometimes their best is shit. And uh, that's that. Okay.
But my mental health, I would say is at like a four. But [00:11:00] honestly, I feel better already. Honestly, that scream, I think just helped us all. The scream is good. The sober companion is good. Yeah. I don't know what I would do without. You don't ever, ever believe me. Don't ever leave me. Oh my God. Oh God. Uh, yeah.
I'm at a four too, honestly. Like, I, I don't know what is gonna happen mm-hmm. In the future. And me not knowing what's gonna happen. Yeah. Really scares the shit outta me. 'cause I don't like not having control. Yeah. But also I just, I have to not care about if whatever happens, happens. Yeah. You know, whatever happens, happens.
As cliche as that may sound so hard sometimes. None of this is easy guys. Mm-hmm. None of it is easy. We never say it's easy. No, it is. But if you want it, you can have it. It's true. Yeah. Every now and then, this just happened in the park the other day, my friend came up to me and was like, I have to know, I'm listening to your podcast.
I have to know why you stopped dancing. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, [00:12:00] oh right, right. Yeah. And then Ian was like, when are you gonna tell your story? Yeah. And I was like, what do you mean? I feel like we are telling our stories. Yeah. And he's like, yeah, but you're like tip to tail story. Like what happened? Yeah. I know a lot of people have asked me that too.
Like Yeah. Like what questions about you? Like what made you become sober? Yeah. Or like where did you go to rehab or whatever. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, I guess like we should tell the whole, the whole length of everything. The whole scope. Yeah. The whole scope. And it feels a little scary to me. I've never told my story tip to tail and honestly writing it out this week was a lot.
Yeah. But I, um. I, I'm a little bit nervous. I know what, I'm excited. I had to do this in front of like hundreds of people, so I know. That's insane. Whew. Yeah. Elise, you're just telling it to me. I'm just telling it to you. And don't talk about, don't think about anyone else. Yeah. You guys aren't here. You guys, let's start this podcast.
Cheers. Cheers, Rosa.
Okay, we're gonna get into my story. [00:13:00] Yeah. What the fuck happened? What the fuck happened? And why you like this? Why am I, and what did you do to become a better person? Yeah. Who, who put me in this place? You, you did this to yourself. Okay. Yeah. So all your fault. I'm gonna guess tell you 'cause I don't even think I've really told you like the full tip to, I mean, you know so much, but I know bits and pieces.
I feel like I know the majority, but I don't know everything. Yeah. So I'm very interested to hear that. Well ask, ask questions when you want, because I do feel like telling my own story is kind of odd because. I know what I know. Yeah. And I don't know that you don't know. Yeah. So if you have, if you need clarity, go ahead and ask me.
But I'm going to tell you how I got sober. Mm-hmm. But first, how I became became an alcoholic. Alcoholic. Yeah. And I do think that's important. I do think it's important to start at the top because Yeah. Even like when you were young, like what feelings were you [00:14:00] feeling? What were like the first feelings you remember feeling when you were like a child?
Well, that's so funny. 'cause I, I, when I was a kid I was very like spunky and I was like full of life. Mm-hmm. I was very emotional. Mm-hmm. Like big and small, always emotions. Right. I'm the second born, I'm like the classic second born. Mm-hmm. Like not sofa, so. Mm-hmm. My sister Karen is like so beautiful and smart and skinny and like always was, and like very.
She's one of God's favorites. Like she's really like, she was good. Like, yeah. And I, I didn't really care. It's funny because you, I was the first born, you're the second born. I do think that's weird. I always think that the second borns are the ones that are like the problem. Mm-hmm. Because the first ones, but then again, my sister never did anything.
She didn't like go drinking, she didn't get in trouble. So there wasn't any room for me to be like, to be okay with it. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, oh, shit, I gotta just stay inside that to say that growing up mm-hmm. My family situation was great. Mm-hmm. My parents are great, my sister's great. I, um, [00:15:00] everything was pretty normal.
I didn't have like a tragic life. We, you know, we grew up well. Mm-hmm. Um, and however, I, I've talked about this before. Mm-hmm. But very early on, probably around like four or five. Yeah. When I, no, I would say in like grade one, I would say that's when things started to like change for me because I was like.
Not understanding school. Got it. I could, I wasn't getting it. That was your first like fear, you think like, oh no, school is gonna get me. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause you know what? Before then, when I was like, I started dance when I was four. My sister was already dancing and I was like, oh, she's good. I'm gonna be good.
Yeah. And that I just fell into it. Mm-hmm. Very quickly, no issue. Yeah. But then school, so up until that point I was like, oh yeah, I'm confident I got this. Mm-hmm. And then I went to school and I was like, what's happening? Got it. And I immediately didn't know. Yeah. Like, I think like my mom would get so frustrated with me because I couldn't Do you have a learning disability?
Yes, I for sure. But you're not like diagnosed with it. No. Yeah. But in my, in my [00:16:00] day, yeah. They weren't diagnosing girls, they weren't testing girls. Right. The only thing they were really testing girls for was if you were gifted. Mm. But the A DHD, the like dyslexia, dyscalculia, yeah. Like all of that. Nothing for girls.
Yeah. My brother. Was dyslexic in a way that like he can, when he reads a page, he can't focus on the lines. I think so. He sees it all. Okay. Yeah. My cousin has one of those where it jumps. Yeah. I, um, I can't do, I can't do math. I, I couldn't, things like weird shit, like I couldn't figure out what the difficulty levels were in books.
Mm-hmm. Like, we would have to bring a book home and read it and my mom would be like, that's the easiest book ever. And then I would bring home like a third grade chapter book and she'd be like, what is that? I'm like, I can't tell. Yeah. I cannot tell the difference. I don't know what anyone wants from me.
My God. We should like, do a test for you and see what's wrong with you, what dyslexia you have. I'm pretty sure I have Dyscalculia, which is like dyslexia for numbers. Okay. Numbers and patterns and graphs and charts [00:17:00] and shit like that. Yeah. Which is also why I can't label the map of Canada. Yeah. We're gonna keep bringing it back to geography.
And I love it in school, in like, or really early on in school, I was going to Kuman. Do you know Kuman? I do. I it's like totally forgot about, that's like church basement. Oh my God. It's like AA church basement. Smells like aa. Yeah. Sit there and you would just have to like do these booklets, but I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing, so how am I supposed to manage this?
So I knew at a very young age that I was not smart. Yeah. Like I knew that. And from a young age, were you getting bullied because of it? Like were your parents mad at you for not being smart? I was hiding my. My report cards. Got it. At like in grade one. Mm. Like if they gave it to us in our backpack, I'd be like, oh, I forgot it at school.
Yeah. Like I was also one of those kids that like, you know, the desks with like the, you put your things in. Mine was a wasteland. It was like, like I couldn't put anything away ever. It was just like that, throw it in and then I was like digging around for shit. At the end of the year, it's like, clean out your stuff and everyone has like a nice stack and like [00:18:00] dirt and dust and I'm like, here you go.
Like, God. Um, I don't think I was ever like tidy like that at my desk, but I wasn't messy. I was always just the InBetween I guess. Oh God. I wish I was the InBetween. I always just wanted to be the InBetween. Yeah. I can't get there. Yeah. Um, by grade three I'm failing almost everything. And that's true. And were you held back?
No. Okay. Should they have, um, you know what, I don't think it would've mattered. Got it. To be honest with you, I don't think that I was gonna get it either way. There was no attention. I also couldn't like. I was a kid, so I couldn't explain why I didn't understand. Yeah. And were you, you were ashamed that you couldn't understand it was so you probably didn't wanna talk about it.
It was so embarrassing. Yeah, it was so fucking embarrassing to like constantly like, and we would sit next to each other in class and I would always get our, we would get our quizzes back and mine would always be like a C or a D. Mm-hmm. It was literally failing almost everything in grade three. I did. I was dancing at the same time.
And I will say that I learned also from a very young age [00:19:00] that the tough do survive. Like the strong survive. Because growing up in the nineties, even now, I mean, cheer coaches, dance coaches, they're screaming. I'm sure you're like skating coaches were screaming. They're screaming in our face. Yeah. But I kind of liked it because I knew what it was for when I was getting in trouble at dance.
It's 'cause I was like, oh yeah, I didn't point my feet or I didn't, I like messed up on this. And so I knew and I could fix it, you know? Yeah. Because you knew how to dance. You didn't know how to do school. No. Yeah. And it made more sense to me getting in trouble at dance. And it also made me feel like. Well, you wouldn't be yelling at me if I wasn't amazing.
Yeah. You know, it's like you're tougher on the kids that are good. Right? Yeah. And I just like internalized that and felt that, and so it helped me. Mm-hmm. I was like, dance, I can do school, whatever. Yeah. You know, I, at a young age, I, I really did feel like there's something about me that's really great.
Yeah. And there's something about me that is really bad and I am gonna have to figure out how to keep [00:20:00] that, how to keep anyone from finding out that this is bad. And I know that. Yeah. So that's interesting because like the first thing you were hiding. 'cause like as alcoholics we hide everything, you know?
So the first thing you, you learned to hide was your report card. Yeah. Was the fact that you were dumb in school? Yeah. Sorry, I said dumb, but No, its okay. I, well, but you know what, those are the words I had at the time. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and a lot of people don't have like, oh yeah, I'm not dumb. I just learned a different way.
It's like when you're that little, you don't know that. And if you were never diagnosed with something, then Yeah. You just thought you were dumb. Which is a really. Yeah. Like you can't change that. No. You probably felt like, oh my God, I can't change this. What's inside of me? Like I'm just, this is who I am.
Well, of course not. Yeah. Because every day we would move on and do another thing in school. Yeah. But I'm like, I didn't learn that. Yeah. I don't know what we're doing. And I would often just go, oh, I guess I'll learn it later. She did not learn it later. Learn later. So by grade three, I'm failing almost everything.
I get pulled out of public school and I go to a private school. Okay. Okay. Okay. So this is all happening in Ottawa? [00:21:00] This is all happening in Ottawa. Yeah. Yeah. So first I wanna say that people have asked Zoe. People ask me, why does Heather Haman? That's the main question I get. Yeah. It is a big question.
And I will say that I don't hate men. What my therapist says is that I hate, essentially the patriarchy, but I, I really hate when men get away with things. Mm-hmm. And they can just like. Hurt so many people in their path. Yeah. And just like act like nothing has gone wrong. Yeah. They didn't do anything wrong.
Nothing has happened. Nothing has happened. They didn't hurt hundreds of people. No. No. And so when people ask me why I hate men, this is where it starts. Mm-hmm. I love my dad. Mm-hmm. I love dj. I love Ian. I love many men in my life. I do. And they're, I surround myself with limited but very good, safe men.
Yeah. [00:22:00] And I love them, but this is where it starts for me, with my aversion to, would you say to men? Yeah. I went to a private school. I was in the, the start of grade four. It was the first month, and this private school only had 80 kids. Now remember, I went to this school because I'm stupid. Right? Right. No one was telling me I was stupid.
But you know, when you're a kid, you know, you're fucking stupid. You're not passing anything. Did your parents come off to you being like, oh, like we're gonna go into a school, it's gonna be better for you? Yeah. So they said, we, you know, I needed more attention. Yeah. And like, they never called me stupid, but they never said like, you suck, so we have to put you here.
But it's like, doesn't a good thing for you. And you were excited for it. Were you excited? Um, I, I, I think I was sad that I was gonna like miss my friends. Yeah. But I don't really remember being that devastated by it. Right. I just was so bad at school that I'm like, oh. Whatever. Yeah, it is. What, it's, this school went from eight 30 in the morning till five 30 in the afternoon.
Wow. [00:23:00] And my first month of grade four. Well, let, let me set the scene. This school was in the woods, like in kind of in the middle of nowhere, 80 kids. And it was a very, like, family run staff. So was it grade one to grade eight? Grade one to grade 10. Grade one to grade 10. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So I feel like I wanna touch you.
No, it's like Orna. She was like, um, when I, uh, I started this school. I'm in grade four. I'm wearing my little uniform. Mm-hmm. And I'm terrified of everything. And I'm in, I'm in the portable, at the back of the class, at the back of the school. Okay. A private school. But you saw portables. It was like a, the, the school was like a log cabin, basically.
Got it. With like a bunch of little like portables. Yeah. It was a fire hazard. Ugh. But, so grade four I go to school and within the first month of school.
I am in class and my teacher asks me to go to Mr. We're gonna call him Mr. Tini. Okay. Mr. Teenie's classroom to get a textbook. [00:24:00] Okay. And Mr. Tini also teaches my sister.
So my sister's in his class. And was, did you and your sister go there together? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. At least you could go there with your sister, you know? Well, I was there someone there that you were gonna know? Mm, at this time? Sorry Karen, but at this point Karen was, um, embarrassed by me. Like she didn't want anything to do with me at this point.
'cause I was very Was she embarrassed by you because you were like not smart? I was, no, I was loud. I was loud and I got in trouble a lot. Got it. So she like didn't wanna be around that and she was perfect and could do no harm. Well, and she was afraid of getting in trouble, so she, the way she did that was just to be like.
Perfect. Right. And the way I did that was like, I can't do that. I'm not gonna, the rebellious little child, I love her. Yeah. God. So, um, I, you know, I was like, okay, I'll go, I'll go down to the main building and go to his class. I've never met him. The only thing I know about Mr. Tini is that A, he's really funny and b he's really fucking scary.
This is what people have said about him. Yeah. And what you like girls like No, you just walk by his [00:25:00] classroom and you hear screaming. Oh, mm-hmm. Interesting. And you like also see, like, him laughing with people at recess. So it's a very confusing situation. Mm-hmm. So I, I go down to the classroom, I knock on the door, he says, come in.
And it's like that weird, like Mennonite school. So you walked in, everyone had to stand up and I said, hi, I'm Heather. Can I, um, borrow a textbook from Miss whatever? And I walk in a little bit and he goes, do you pee with the door open? And my face, like, I just felt myself like, shut down. Mm-hmm. I was like.
What? There's no way. He just asked me that. Yeah. And he said again, do you pee with the door open? And I, I'm, there's, you can't possibly I'm, I'm 10. Yeah. You can't be asking me if I, what I do in the bathroom. You can't possibly be asking me that. Yeah. So I'm like a little bit, you're just like confused and like, let's just not answer that.
Yeah. 'cause he cannot be asking me that. I'm also one of these kids and still now when I get embarrassed, my face goes tomato [00:26:00] red. Yeah. So there's you, I'm, you already got me, you know when you've got me because like, I'm a tomato. So I'm standing there and I look over at Karen and she's just face down, white is a ghost looking at her desk.
Like she does not want anything to do with this. Karen's in as well to get the textbook? No, she's in his class. Oh, in his class. She's in grade seven. In his class? Yeah. Or it's grade. He said read that in front of everybody there. Yes. Yes. I thought it was just you going into this class. No, sorry. So when I walked in, it was a full class of kids.
Okay. And there was also only two girls in that class and the rest were boys and they were all grade six boys. So of course I'm in love with them. Yeah. And I'm terrified. He's asking me if I pee with the door open. I'm standing there fully red faced, just being like, I just came down to get a textbook. How am I caught in this?
Yeah. It's also my first month at this school. And then he asks me two more times. He goes, when you go to the bathroom and you sit down and now he's making you feel stupid. Yeah. 'cause you're not answering the question. Yeah. He says, do you leave the door open? Mm-hmm. And I said, no. And he said, are you sure you don't pee with the door open?
Doesn't fucking [00:27:00] stop. Zoey. It went on for so long that I was like, is this, am I in the Truman Show? Is this a joke? Is this happening right now? Finally, I look over at Lucas Towari. He's sitting in that first and last. He's sitting in the front row and he just goes close the door and oh, he wanted me to close the door to classroom door.
Okay. And I turned around. Thank you for saving. Thank you for him for saying, saving you and telling you that. Thank you Lucas. Literally, but like, what the hell? I, I turned my little grade four body around and like closed the door as if like, I was like, is he stupid? And then I immediately am like, no, I'm stupid.
How could I ever be so dumb to not close the door? Like it was so shocking. Yeah. I'd never met this person. It's so manipulative. I've also never met this person. Yeah. He's never spoken to me. Yeah. Ever. Yeah. So it's a crazy way to talk to a child, by the way, talking to children, very easy about their pee is grooming.
Yeah. It's grooming and it's abuse. And it's making you terrified. Yes. And making you feel [00:28:00] small. Yeah. And scared. So he continues to like make fun of me about it to the class. And he's like laughing with the guys about it. And I'm in grade four and I'm just trying to get this textbook and he hands me the textbook and he writes a note on a sticky note and he says, read this to your teacher and in front of everybody when you get back to class.
And I go. Okay. And then he goes, are you gonna read it? And I said, yeah. Like, I'm just trying to get the fault out. Yeah. Mind you, I'm terrified. So I leave the class, I'm crying all the way up to the portable and I'm just like wiping my tears. 'cause I'm like, I can't God cry in my first month here. Yeah. I hand her the textbook, I give her the note and I said, Mr.
Tini wants me to read this to you, but I don't want to. Mm. I go and sit down. End of the day I am leaving school. Pretty good day. Yeah. All in all, we survived. Yeah. I leave the school, I'm walking out and it's probably like a hundred feet from like here, like the front of the school to the parking lot where my mom is.
Okay. And he's standing on the schoolhouse steps where the, there's like a bell. It's like a full schoolhouse. He's standing at the top 'cause he's incredibly tiny. So like if he didn't, it's less intimidating, but he's standing at the top of the stairs and he goes, Hey, did you read that [00:29:00] note? And I went, ha.
Yeah. And I keep walking and he goes, Hey, get back here. Oh my God. I'm terrified. I'm 10. And I go, what again? I'm like, red, red. Yeah. White, white. And I'm like, he's like, did you read that note? And I, I just didn't really say anything. Yeah. And he's relentless. He doesn't stop. Did you read it? And I finally, I'm like, I just gave it to her.
I didn't wanna read it. Yeah. Why didn't you wanna read it? Why didn't you do what I told you to do? Why can't you follow instructions? This is your first month here, and this is how we're gonna start it out. Are you a liar? Are you a liar? Is that your mom over there? Should we go together and tell her you're a liar?
I'm crying. Yeah. Okay. Over a note finally. And he's still picking at you, even though you're bawling your ass out as a 10-year-old. And he has veins popping out of his neck. He's red in the face and he will continue to speak to me like this for the next four years of my life. So he, no, I remember, 'cause my dad would get like that angry at me when I was like drinking and he would be get like scary.
It's really scary, but not that scary. So like, I feel like I'm imagining my dad angry times. [00:30:00] Like a billion plus. It's a stranger. Plus you're 10. Like when I was drink, starting to drink, I was like 16. Yeah. You know, so, and I wasn't doing anything wrong and he finally, I said, when I could finally talk, I was like, I thought you guys had an inside joke and you were gonna make fun of me.
Yeah. And he's like, well, why was that so hard to say? Interesting way to start your time here. Yeah. And it was horrible. Yeah. And I cried. Yeah. And I And that stuck with you? Yeah. Well I held it together until I got to my mom's car and I got in the car and I didn't tell her because. I went to that school because I'm stupid.
Yeah. And because I'm a problem and I get in trouble. And now you just feel more stupid. Well, I, what am I gonna do? Be in trouble my first month at this fucking school. I'm here because I'm a problem. Yeah. I can't now be a problem at the school, so I'm already fucked. And from that day forward, it never stopped.
Yeah. He never stopped. And he did this to everybody? No, he did this to a select group of people. Mm-hmm. He was really, really into the, did you ever talk to [00:31:00] the people that he did this to as well? Um, I got it the worst. Mm-hmm. And I, at that time, it felt like it was only me. Mm-hmm. There was one other girl in my class who was like going through some pretty difficult mental shit once we finally got into his classroom in seventh grade.
So was that the worst year of it all, was when he was your actual teacher? Yeah. Yeah. That was, I mean, it didn't stop because. Grade five. We had maybe gym class with him, grade six maybe. I had health class with him, and then once I got into his class, it was like he had me all day. Yeah. All day. Mm-hmm. And, and it wouldn't stop.
I mean, I could never do anything. Right. It was screaming and yelling and embarrassing and harassing and in front of everybody humiliating a child. Like I would walk in to like circle and he would like circle at the beginning of school. We'd have to like sing Canada and stuff. And like he would just call me out for shit.[00:32:00]
Yeah. Like he would do weird shit and like scream at me and he knew he could do it. Did you eventually tell like your parents like, this guy fucking sucks? No. No. Because, because he. Because I thought he was right. Yeah, I thought he was right. I would continue to go on and get in trouble at that school.
Yeah. I was already a problem with him. And so if there was any kind of like issue with girls and stuff, it was like me and my friend Paige, we would fight and we would get called into the dean's office and he would send her out and keep me in and scream in my face and say like. You are so lucky that I'm not gonna call your parents.
'cause if I did, you'd get it 10 times worse at home. And that wasn't true. Yeah. But he but I didn't know that he made it seem to be true. Yeah. They, they, they were my superiors. They were my, the dean. I, it was like a prestigious fucking school. I thought they were Right. Yeah. And like, whatever they said was true and I'm a fucking problem.
And mind you, I'm still not smart. Mm-hmm. Like, I still [00:33:00] can't do math. Like I still am getting in trouble. I'm getting screamed at for getting like words wrong in dictation. If anything, like you are not being able to like, get smarter. Yeah. Because you're getting abused every day at school. Well, so in seventh grade when I got into his class, yeah.
I, I, um, well, I, I started getting migraines. Okay. As did my friend Paige. She was getting debilitating, paralyzing migraines and I'm like, Hmm. Because of his abuse probably. Yeah, I think so. And um, I was getting migraines and I also. Had a, what I now know is a full mental breakdown. In seventh grade, I was in his class.
I, my body forgot how to eat it, forgot how to swallow food. I can't even explain to you how that's possible, but I couldn't get my brain to tell my throat to swallow food. It, I couldn't. Was this at like a lunch break or what was happening Every single day? All day. Yeah. Morning. I couldn't eat anything. I just, it just [00:34:00] started one day where I just like couldn't swallow food.
Went on for months. I went to the doctor, she was like, you should look up the Hy Li maneuver. Oh, okay. So like, just to, just to say that I was a mentally ill child. Yeah. Like I was going through shit. Yeah. And it was obviously brought on by him and the school. Yeah. And the teachers surrounding that did nothing about it.
And like heard the screaming and the yelling and the crying. Yeah. You were severely depressed, anxious. Yeah. You couldn't eat you Yeah. Had headaches. It was fully, it was affecting your whole body. Yeah. It was crazy Al. Yeah. And like there was also a lot of like threats that would go on about like, taking dance away from me.
Like he would say that he would like talk to my mom about taking me out of dance if I couldn't get my grades up. And that was the one thing you cared about. I would've killed myself. Yeah. I dance is the only reason I'm here today. And that's true. Yeah. Like that's a hundred percent true. And it started here.
Mm-hmm. So your days back then consisted of, were you dancing and then going to school, or were you going to school and then [00:35:00] dancing? Well, I was, I was going to school from eight 30 to five 30. Yeah. And then either being pulled out an hour early or we'd leave at five 30 and then I would dance till like 10, which is insane.
And then get home at 10 30 and have to do homework. Yeah. Which we know I don't do. So, wow. My days were very stressful. And then I would be in the car in the morning, like trying to get my homework done really quickly. I got very good at lying. Yeah. I was in his class and he asked, I, I didn't read. It was about.
Whatever we were learning about in history and I didn't read the chapter. Yeah. And I'm sitting in class and I fucking knew he's gonna call on me. He always calls on me 'cause he, he's trying to get me. Mm-hmm. And I didn't read it. And so before he was like, can anyone summarize the chapter? And I put up my hand and I was like, well, before we get into that, and I just like read one line so fast and was like, why did they decide to stay here when they, and like he answered the question.
So then he wouldn't ask me to summarize. Oh my god. Smart.
Yeah. Yeah. So I became a liar real early. And survival. Well, yeah. You had to figure out your survival skills. Yeah, exactly what I was gonna say. Yeah. You're li [00:36:00] Yeah. So yeah, I was a very stressed out kid. Yeah. I was a very stressed out kid and for a good reason.
Yeah. And once I got to high school, I mean, we've talked about my high school experience a little bit. But just to say that I already knew I wasn't enough. Once I got to high school, I knew I wasn't enough. I knew I wasn't smart.
Well, after going through that, so your last year at the private school was grade eight?
Grade eight? Yeah. Okay. And then grade nine. And then I went to, yeah, sorry. And then I went to high school. I went to real high school and immediately failed math. Like immediately got a 43, like could not do it. Were your parents putting you down now? Because like, oh, we went, we took you to private school and you're still not No.
Getting it. They were never, they were never mad at me. Yeah. They just were frustrated. Yeah. And they really, I mean they did throw this around like, you're not applying yourself. Yeah. And like that pisses me off. It always has. Yeah. Because I'm like, I don't want to, yeah. Like I don't know how to apply myself.
I don't get what's going on there. You to, you tried, you didn't know how to, and no one was like sitting down helping you, were you? I did have tutors high and that was fine in high school, but [00:37:00] then I would test. Yeah. And I would fail. Yeah. 'cause I don't get it. Yeah. I do not get it.
You would think that I would turn to drinking at this point in high school.
Mm-hmm. Because I was an idiot. I had no friends. But I think that's why, yeah. I didn't have friends in high school. Right. Especially in my first high school. So I wasn't drinking, I wasn't gonna parties. I was teaching dance on Saturday and Sunday mornings. I wasn't. Yeah, your whole life was dance. Yeah. So I just was really, you know, when I was writing this all down, I was like, man, thank fucking God.
Yeah. I had dance because I was nothing. I felt like nothing. And the only thing that made me feel good was dance, because I was good at it. Yeah. And I was getting accolades for it. And at this point like this, would you say like this was the best that you were No. Like beginning of high school. Like when No, no.
Oh, I would continue to get so good. Zoe. So good. Okay. But this is like, that's what you were living for at the time with dance. Yeah. Well definitely high school. I was like, this is my entire life. Like I don't ever, I remember I was in, I think I already told this story, but I was in ninth grade. [00:38:00] And we had to write, we had to make a collage.
Mm-hmm. About like our life. Mm-hmm. And my whole thing was dance. Mm-hmm. And my teacher was like, you have to do other things. Yeah. And I was like, woo. It's true. You can't put all your eggs in one basket for dating or for I am in ninth grade, madam. Yeah. What do you mean? I was like, my mom drives me to these places.
What am I supposed to do? What are you talking about? I don't know. Yeah, Dick. That's true. Maybe you should, should Dick. And that at the end of high school I was drinking a little bit. Yeah. And by that I mean I was putting vodka into water bottles and pretending to drink it. Like fully just like, yeah, because you were scared of it.
I was terrified Zoe. My dad raised us to be like, you guys are probably allergic to alcohol and you might die. And we were like, and then, and also I was so afraid of being in trouble. Right? Yeah. Like, this hadn't gone rogue ever for me. I never was like a kid that got in so much trouble. So I just like went the opposite and was just bad and didn't give a fuck.
I was terrified of being in trouble. I didn't wanna get caught drinking. I didn't wanna. Get arrested. Yeah. I didn't, I was scared, you know? Yeah. Because your family made you like terrified of everything. [00:39:00] Yeah. And I was like, if I get drunk, what's gonna happen? They're gonna take dance away from me. Like, I just, it just wasn't for me and I didn't have any friends to drink with, so I was just like pretending to be drunk at parties if I got invited to those parties.
Mm-hmm. The drinking kind of stops here for a sec. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm drinking a little bit in high school. Yeah. I'm like trying to fit in. Yeah. You're getting bullied. But the, but then what happened mm-hmm.
Is I got into Boston Conservatory and I, it was a full dance program. Mm-hmm. And I'm not fucking skinny enough to be there.
Mm. In my own head. Who's telling you that? Me. Are your coaches telling you that? No. No, just me. Okay. I'm also, what, 17? My body's changing a little bit. I'm like getting kind of like mm-hmm. A hippie. Yeah. I'm like, things are changing and like my body doesn't have the metabolism. It did when I was a kid, and so now I'm like.
Oh God, I have to stop this immediately before I get any bigger. Well, what about when you had trouble swallowing food when you were at that private school? Did [00:40:00] that just like kind of continue? Like did you like not, that's a funny question because I hadn't ever thought about that, but I'm a therapist. I did like it.
Yeah, I did like that. People were worried how thin I was. Yeah. Were not like worrying about your people. Were worrying about you and you liked that. Well, I think I liked the attention. Yeah. I think I liked, I think I just felt so unseen in a way, and like this thing was happening to me and I couldn't swallow and it was like, okay, well people are worried about it in a way, so at least that's something like mm-hmm.
It, it wasn't what I needed. I needed to eat and swallow, but. Okay. But now you're commenting on how skinny skinny I am. And you needed people to see that you couldn't eat and swallow because of what was happening to you at that private school and no one I did not connect that, but that's probably exactly true.
I was like literally starving myself because I couldn't like tell anyone was going on. You couldn't tell, tell anybody. And you wanted people to know that something was going on. Before I went to Boston [00:41:00] the summer before, I was dancing a lot and I was decided that I gotta get real thin before I go.
Mm-hmm. But I didn't know how to do that. I didn't know about skinny. I didn't know about thin. I grew up, everything was fine. I did grow up in a house where like there was a lot of like fat conversation. There were like scales. Like I was an almond mom. You say an almond mom. I was weighing myself when I was a kid.
Like I remember being 64 pounds when I was, what? I would've been maybe six years old. I don't know what you are, but like I remember being 64 pounds at some point. Interesting. That's how young I was weighing myself. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I don't remember being 64 pounds. Ever in my life. Like, I don't think I weighed myself as a kid.
Well, it's insane. Yeah. Yeah. The only reason would be 'cause it's like funny, but like, or at like the doctors, I guess. Yeah. Or at, at the fair. And you're like, how, how, how much does it do I weigh? How much does this cow weigh? Or guess my weight? I think there may be used to be like a weight restriction on roller coasters.
Devastating. So I think I need to be like a certain weight for certain rollercoasters. When we were kids, um, [00:42:00] we would go on vacation and, you know, those jumping trampolines with like the harnesses? Yeah. And you could flip Yeah. That you had to weigh yourself. Yeah. And I didn't, and I just told him how much I weighed, which I, I was probably, I don't know, I don't wanna say numbers, but I was in high school, so like, let's just say I'm 120 pounds.
Yeah. I was like. I'm a hundred pounds or 110. Yeah. But the problem with that is they put the harnesses on you and then you, you don't Yeah. It doesn't work. Jump enough. Yeah. Yeah. So they had to like, you know, and that felt so shameful to me at that point already. Yeah. That was high school, so I always knew that weight was a thing.
It just hadn't affected me yet. Yeah. Until I had to go to Boston and I was like, I'll be eating special K from now until the end of time. People you were dancing with, were they
very
Heather: thin? Like the people that were like better than you were like higher up than you. Were they thin? Well, funny you should say that.
That didn't exist.
Zoe: Oh my God. She was the best guys. No. Okay. My best friend was the best. I was the best.
Heather: Fuck. Yeah. At, [00:43:00] at like in my like 10th, 11th, 12th year. Yeah. I was the best. Arianne, yeah. Was the best in her studio. Like we, like there was a group of us that like. We're the best. Fuck. Yeah. And the people I was dancing with, like, if you were thinner than me at my studio, it didn't really matter because you weren't as good as me.
Yeah. And so, and I don't mean to say that being a bitch, but it just didn't, that didn't click yet for me. Yeah. But it will. Yeah, it will vary soon. Okay. Because I went to Boston. I'm just trying to think of like why you thought that you had to be thin all of a sudden for Boston. No, because we grew up, you know what?
I don't even think it was just for Boston. I had love handles growing up my whole life. Even looking at like videos when I was like eight, I always had like a little like extra fat part on my, and I did. And like, okay, I don't believe you, but Okay. But the thing, but the thing is mm-hmm. Is that we were wearing body suits and tights.
Right. And where your tights cut. Yeah. If you had any kind of extra Yeah, it would, you would see it. Right. Like so it was probably a tiny, minuscule thing, but you could see it. Well, bodies are, bodies are bodies. But like [00:44:00] I always had an issue with that, but it wasn't. Fucking up my life yet. Mm-hmm. You know, it was there.
It kind of feels like when I think about it, it's like my life is going and then all of these like mental illnesses and weird fucking shit are coming. Yeah. But I just don't know yet. And I'm like, and then this is like coming at me and then all of a sudden I'm like, where did that come from? Yeah. And it's like, you could have just looked over your shoulder bitch, but Yeah.
But you didn't wanna, you didn't want to think that anything bad was gonna happen. Well, at that point I was like holding everything down. Yeah. I was just like, I'm good. I've got, got it. You just gotta get through life. Yeah. Yeah. And I had a purpose. I did. Yeah. I had a purpose at that time. And so that really helped, which was dance.
Now when I got to Boston, I met, this is actually where I met Arianne, and I was immediately terrified of her because she is gonna be so annoyed that I'm saying this, but she is like. Perfect. So you seem perfect. Arian. She is. And like, she's so [00:45:00] talented. Mm-hmm. And also like very, very smart and focused and the way that she speaks.
Mm-hmm. When I got to Boston, I was like, I don't know, my name is Heather floating around. I'm scared. And she was just like, and I'm a dancer and I'm here and I'm, you know, and I was like, fuck. And um, I was very shocked to not only be surrounded by such tiny, skinny people mm-hmm. But I was very shocked at how small of a fish I was in such a big fucking pond.
Mm. Like I got there and I was like, oh, right. The best of the best are here. Yeah. I'm not the top dog. And that's, and that stressed you out. Yeah. I was like, immediately I was like, okay, how are we gonna navigate this? I'm gonna have to be. The best or the funniest or the can't be the smartest. I'm gonna have to figure this shit out because I already knew I'm not the best ballerina here, that's for sure.
I'm not the skinniest, I'm not the best at all. So I don't know what I am now. It's interesting that you, 'cause you want, you [00:46:00] liked being the best mm-hmm. In 10th, 11th, 12th grade. Yeah. And now you're not the best. Yeah. I wonder if like, you weren't the best in 10th, 11th, 12th grade, if you were like second best, if you would still feel like the pressure to keep being like the best ever at Boston.
You, I wonder, I wonder, I wonder if it's like, I just never, it's so much pressure to put on a kid, like, yeah, you weren't like a kid, kid, but you're still in high school, you're 17 years old and it's so much pressure. You're, you're the best at everything. And now, oh wah w I'm not the best. Yeah. I dunno. It just seems like a big.
A big difference. I think that goes for a lot of kids when they Yeah, I think so too. Are so talented at their sport. Yeah. And like we talk about the NHL, but like I do know a lot of hockey guys that are addicts or have gone through it because it's like, you are amazing and you have a purpose and everyone loves you for it, and then all of a sudden you don't have it anymore and you're like, what the fuck am I?
Yeah. [00:47:00] You know? So all that to say, all of that, the pressure of school, the pressure of Boston, the pressure of dancing, it immediately went to my body. Yeah. It already kind of was starting. Yeah. But it, it was so fast. Yeah. It was like I, I looked at everybody, I looked at me, I said, what's the difference? And there really wasn't that much of a difference, but there was a lot of people there.
So there were girls that were tiny, itsy bitsy, teeny tiny problems of their own. Yeah. Or just like, I feel like certain genetics or like Totally. Um, well, this is when I became very aware of the thigh gap. Yeah. I was not privy to the thigh gap before. I never even. Thought about it in high school. Yeah. And now I'm like, oh my God, these fucking bitches, their thighs don't touch.
Yeah. How, and I've gone through so many ups and downs with my weight. Yeah. My thighs have never not touched. Yeah. Yeah. They're always gonna touch. And that's just the way my hips are.
And I just, I'm, I keep thinking of like your eating disorder definitely started when you were in private school, right? I think so.
Some sort of like [00:48:00] disordered eating. Disordered eating, and maybe like you were stressed out at Boston. Yeah. And you resorted back to that, but in like a very, like you knew what you were doing type of way. Right. You really honed in on it then. 'cause you're like, I know that this is gonna make me better than everybody else and I can do this because I did it in private school.
It is funny. And it got everybody worried. It is funny too that my brain didn't just go, okay, well work really hard. Yeah. It's like, yeah, I'm gonna work really hard, but on this really weird thing that is food. Yeah. And I got. Really depressed really fast. And I got real fucking skinny, really fast. Like scary skinny.
Yeah. Yeah. After my first year, my Christmas first year, look at that dancer. Like, Ooh, we went home for Christmas and I lost 20 pounds in a month. And I came back and people were like, you okay? Mm-hmm. And I'm like, mm-hmm. Uh mm-hmm. And I could kind of keep it up a little bit. Mm-hmm. And then I couldn't.
Yeah. And so within like four months, I had [00:49:00] lost 20 pounds and then gained 30. Yeah. And it was the most I had, it's the biggest I'd ever been freshman year. And that's not the biggest I was ever gonna be. Fucking hell. But it was the biggest eyebrows. I was depressed. I was wearing sweatpants all day. Okay. I was living in the dorm room.
I was like eating ice cream out of a fucking. Mm-hmm. Because I do think that when you restrict so much. Yeah. By the way, let me just pause for a second. I understand that this part of the story feels a little scattered. It's pretty fucking scattered in my brain too. No. When I tell my story, it's gonna be all over the place.
Like this part of my life wasn't linear at all. Yeah. It wasn't clear. It was such, it like eating, eating disorders, or not linear at all. It's, I also wasn't living in this reality at all. Yeah. Like I, you didn't wanna be there. I didn't wanna be there. Yeah. I didn't give a single fuck about anything. I just was like, I can't eat, and if I don't eat, I'll be a better dancer.
And that also means if I don't eat, I'm worth [00:50:00] more. Well now do you think that you still had dance or was like you being skinny, like what you had?
No. No. Yeah. Dance was still what I had. Yeah. I don't think at any point being, well, no. There were some points where being skinny was like pretty on par. More important. Well, definitely more important. Yeah. But I never felt skinny enough. Right. Whereas with dance, I would go in and out of being like, I'm enough, I'm not enough.
I'm, you know, um. We also had a lot of reinforcement all around. Like our teacher Donna would come in our ballet teacher freshman year and she'd be like, I can see your lunch, which means like, mm-hmm. You know, you ate too much. Mm-hmm. Or she like knocked over someone's water bottle once and she was like, oh God, somebody's lunch.
We're like, Donna, come on man. So this is where like those comments came into play. Yeah. Like when you were in high school doing dance. It wasn't like the coaches weren't doing stuff like that. No, but it, that's where it started to happen was the university. I like to bring this up though, because in high school I literally just remembered [00:51:00] this.
Mm-hmm. In high school, this is when I started having severe stomach problems. Mm-hmm. I was basketball belly by fourth period, so bloated. I had to undo my pants every class. Really? Yeah. And I would just like get home and I'd be so bloated, and then finally when I'd get to dance, it would go down. Why now?
Well now it's IBS and it's so triggered by anxiety. Yeah. And I am the poster child for anxiety. I gave myself IBS from being so stressed out all the time. And so now like when I do get stressed out, I have to like breathe so deeply into my stomach and sit in my like infrared little blanket and like, 'cause I'll be massive.
It hurts. I wanna see that infrared blanket. Where'd you get it? Higher dose. Okay. It's like a, it's a infrared sauna blanket. Oh my God. I love that. I know, I know, I know. But I only go in for like 15 minutes and Zoe, it's hard for me. Why do you get stressed being in there? I being hot stresses me out. Oh, are you hot right now?
No. I'm so hot right now. I am. I've been. Can someone tell me what's wrong with me by the way? And don't tell me if it's the [00:52:00] Big C, 'cause I don't wanna know. But I have been having such severe night sweats. I wake up wet, I'm wet. No, but I sometimes I wake up wet once. I woke up wet with my boyfriend too and he was like, what is going on with you?
I think that I get really sweaty when I'm sleeping, when I'm around getting my period. Oh, are you getting your period? I just finished it. Okay. I think it has something to do with the hormones when you're getting or off of your period, because that's when I have very sweaty sleeps as well. Sweaty sleeps.
Mind you, I just started a new relationship and this person is over being like, oh, you are a swamp babe. But like swampy, swampy, he's like, this one is crying during sex. She's swampy when she sleeps. What's happening? Why do you like me? Just kidding. I'm, yeah. Heather's a boyfriend. Do I have you catch that?
I have a boyfriend. Yeah. Ooh. Um, okay. Back to the story. Back to the story. Freshman year, I would say freshman year was my test of how to be skinny. How to do it, how to, how to not eat. I didn't know. I didn't know how to be skinny. All I ever knew was like smoothies [00:53:00] and like Jenny Craig, but I didn't know actually how.
And then sophomore year, sophomore year is where I got real good. Yeah. Like I should be in the Olympics for anorexia because I crushed it. Zoe. I learned all summer. I got home and I was working out hard every day. I'm going to hot yoga at 6:00 AM I'm passing out in hot yoga. That's okay. She's gonna have a teaspoon of peanut butter before she goes to hot yoga.
Everything's fine now. Oh my God. And then I would wait till. I would not eat. Yeah. I'd wait till two 30 and I would have four grapes. Oh my God. And then if I was really feeling skinny that day, I would have another teaspoon of peanut butter and then I would knit and watch Grey's Anatomy until dinner. No, but that's literally sounds exhausting it.
It's exhaust exhausting. It me like when, when I think about like my drinking patterns. Yeah. It's exhausting when you say that. That's exhausting. I remember freshman year, I came home after, after school, like in in May, and I was at my parents' house and I was going to take a dance class and [00:54:00] my mom was like, oh, did you eat yet?
Like did you eat? Do you wanna take something with you? And I lied. It was the first time I ever lied about eating. And I said, interesting. No, I already ate like I had already. Yeah. But I did not. Yeah. And it was so weird to me 'cause I almost had an out of body experience where I was like. You loved lying.
Well, I was just like, you're in. Yeah. You've lied. Yeah. You, you're in this eating disorder now. Yeah. You've made a commitment. You just lied to your mom. Mm-hmm. And now we're in. Mm-hmm. And it felt crazy, but it also felt motivating. Mm-hmm. And then I, um, continued that on, and I went back to school and people were worried.
I looked insane. Mm-hmm. I was like, you know, Arianne was getting real fucking pissed off at me. Did I tell you this story? We were in Alexander technique. She, she was here last weekend and we were having this conversation. Mm-hmm. But we were in Alexander technique, which is like all about like posture and shit.
Okay. And we had to like do this exercise with like a little Reese's Cup where we had to like, sniff it and then lick it and then eat it. And you wouldn't eat [00:55:00] it. I, I can't eat that. It's fucking God. It's food. I can't eat that. I also like, I'm eating papaya in two hours from now. Yeah. Like, I can't. And Anne was sitting beside me and at this point Anne had been dealing with her own fucking shit.
Yeah. And everyone else's fucking shit too. 'cause she had roommates. All of her roommates were like going through eating disorders. Yeah. At this point, she's pissed. She looks at me and she goes, oh my God, just eat the fucking chocolate. And I was like, and did you eat it? Nope. And I, in that moment I was like, oh, they know.
Yeah. Everybody knows. And I did it. Right. Did that make you feel superior? Did that make you feel bad? Yeah. It made you feel superior? It made me feel superior because I was like, I can do this. Yeah. I'm doing something and everybody wants this. Yeah. And I knew everybody wanted it because I started to lose friends.
Mm-hmm. People started to get jealous. Jealous and fucking annoyed. Yeah. I think that because when you have an eating disorder, you don't shut the fuck up about food. Yeah. Anne told me that we were at Whole Foods eating. She was eating sushi or something, which was like [00:56:00] 200 calories. I could tell you all the calories of anything at Whole Foods ever.
Any year she was eating sushi. And I guess I said to her, oh my God, I wish I could eat that. And I didn't even, I don't even remember saying that, but she's like, yeah, that fucking sucked. And I was like, yeah, man. So I'm losing friends. I'm like, I don't care though, because you know, well also like your friends are all dance friends, so like they can't hear that because they're trying to maintain their own certain weight.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. And no one wants to hear it. And I did. I did. I wanna have her on the podcast. I asked her, but my friend Gabby, she was like in her eating disorder. Mm-hmm. And we were like best friends for a year because we were like in cahoots with each other. Yeah. I remember one time we met up just randomly, we, we.
She was at CVSI walked into CVS and we both were in CVS looking at nail polish to distract ourselves from eating. Yeah. That's why we both went to CVS separately. Like it was crazy. Interesting. I started, I couldn't throw up, so I started taking laxatives. Mm-hmm. I was taking eventually 25 [00:57:00] laxatives a day by the end of it.
Oh my God. That was a big jump. So you Okay. Because I couldn't throw up. Yeah. I, I, and I was getting to a point where I couldn't keep restricting. So you would have your binge days. Yeah. Yeah. And those binge days were hell because I couldn't get it outta my body.
Zoe: Yeah.
Heather: And then I remembered that my mom has like stomach issues and every now and then she would take something for constipation.
Mm-hmm. Sorry, mom. And I was like, what is that? Yeah. I'm gonna find that. Yeah. CVS laxatives. I do the normal amount one to two. I keep taking them, taking them, taking them. You're supposed to take them for a week if you don't Yeah. Cope. You go see a doctor. Oh, well, I'm my own doctor. Thank you so much. Yeah. I now am just taking laxatives all the time.
Yeah. And shitting at three in the morning, like waking up with such severe stomach cramps, shitting, but then being fine. Yeah. And going to dance and being like, well, I'm good now. I'm skinny. So interesting. By the way, eventually that stops working and it, you don't get skinny. It, it doesn't work. Yeah.
You're just shitting out water and [00:58:00] it's nothing. Yeah. But 25 was a big jump, rather. Well, so it, it happened gradually. Yeah. It was all like, well, that's what ha all of these things happened gradually, but this is eating disorder. The laxatives. Laxatives are also a drug, and so my tolerance is building, and by that, if I do not take a laxatives, a laxative, I'm not pooping.
Yeah. So I'm going weeks without pooping. So I'm taking all these laxatives and now I'm taking them one, I'm taking two, I'm taking three. Eventually I'm taking the whole carton. Oh my God. And it's 25. So I've, I'm taking 25 laxatives every single night. I don't know why. This is funny to me for like a year.
Oh no. And they stopped working. Yeah. Did you ever talk to a doctor about this? No. No. No, no, no, no. Because they would make me stop. Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah. Oh my God. They, and you knew what you were doing was wrong. I knew what I was doing. Everything. You knew everything that you were doing. You knew it was wrong.
When people would say, you should just go to a nutritionist. Mm-hmm. I would say, they're gonna make me fat. [00:59:00] They're gonna make me eat. At that point, to me, food was evil. Evil, yeah. I couldn't look at food in any capacity and be like, that's great. Yeah. It was disgusting. I was disgusted by people. Yeah. If people around me were eating, I was horrified.
I'm like, you are so gluttonous this. Yeah. This is. I and, and, and not because I was judging them. I was so upset with myself that I couldn't do that. Yeah. You were projecting, why can't I eat like a normal person? Yeah. Why can't I drink like a normal person? Yeah. Why does everything have to be so fucking crazy for me?
Yeah. I can't just go to a nutritionist because I'm different now. When you take laxatives, you start shitting yourself in random places. And that's a little PSA to everyone. Don't get addicted to laxatives 'cause you're gonna shit yourself talking to your choreographer in the middle of the Boston Commons.
No, I've shot myself some places too. No. Did I still get the lead role in that piece? Yes. I did. Nice shit myself in everything. Fuck. So at this point you were still really good at dance? Oh yeah. Yeah. Like the [01:00:00] eating disorder of it all, the laxatives of it all. Like, it didn't affect your abilities. Um, it didn't start to affect me until third year when I was severely depressed.
Okay. I was, I, I don't even really know like what? Happened. It was just building and building. And honestly, it was like I was chasing this thing from the wrong angle. Mm. I'm like, I don't care to be in class because I'm so depressed. Class isn't gonna make me better. Not eating is gonna make me better.
Working out every day is gonna make me better. Right. But like, being so separate, like I just like stopped going to class sometimes. Mind you, no one fucking checked on me. But that's all right. Yeah. Um, eventually, so you weren't going to class, but you were going to dance and none of the dance teachers were like, yo, you missed school.
Well, the thing about, okay, well the thing about being in like a high level thing is that like, first of all, you're so fucking replaceable. [01:01:00] Mm-hmm. You're so replaceable. And like me not being in class meant nothing. Mm-hmm. Even if I had a lead role in something, it. Cassia knows it. Yeah. Anne knows the role.
She'll take it. Yeah. Like, you know, it was, everyone was dealing with their own stuff and no one really gave a fuck, to be honest. Like you couldn't, no one had the capacity to care about anybody else, you know? Hmm. It was really, that's really like lonely. It was lonely. It was exhausting. Yeah. I mean, we were dancing from like eight to midnight every day.
Yeah. And it was like, it was too much, honestly. But eventually I got a boyfriend and I found a little bit of distraction in that. Mm-hmm. And so, it's so weird, but my mood, my mood did start to lighten. Mm-hmm.
And I started to get a little more clarity and I was like, I'm gonna go to a nutritionist. Mm. And I went, mm-hmm.
And I loved it. Mm-hmm. And I was under eating and I was losing weight really fast. And I stopped drinking. I was drinking just like on the weekends. Mm-hmm. But when I went to the nutritionist, [01:02:00] she was like. Stop drinking, let's just stop drinking for 30 days. Mm-hmm. And we'll see what happens with your body.
Mm-hmm. I lost a lot of weight. I also, whatever she gave me to eat, like the plan she gave me was. It was So she was like the nutritionist for the Boston Ballet. Yeah. So, so it was like nothing. I got so eat vegetables and I got so skinny. Yeah. But honestly, I've never been more motivated about anything in my life.
It was instant gratification all the time. I was pooping every day. And you knew what you had to eat. Like there was a plan out for you and you knew, and you trusted that you weren't gonna get fat. Why did you, yeah. Why did you trust her, you think be, I think because my friend Gabby went to her. Right. Okay.
And I was telling her, I'm like, I'm afraid she's gonna make me eat. And she's like, it's okay. She's not gonna make you fat. Yeah. She doesn't wanna make you fat. Yeah. And I just, I felt in that moment, I was like, I don't really have a choice here. Mm-hmm. I'm so fucked. And like, I know at this point I can't restrict food anymore.
Mm-hmm. Once I got to senior year, I'm like, I cannot restrict anymore. I, it hurts me. Mm-hmm. And it, I, I'm hungry and I will literally black out and go to Whole Foods and buy a [01:03:00] giant thing of cookies and eat them all. Yeah. Which is what I was doing. Um. She got me to stop drinking. And it's the only time that anybody has ever gotten me to stop drinking.
Yeah. And I think that's because at that time, eating was just way more important. Way more important. You, you hadn't gone down like your, like you weren't an alcoholic yet? I didn't have the capacity to, to do both. No. So when my eating started to get better, I started drinking. Mm-hmm. And I was drinking really casually.
Were you drinking with your boyfriend? No. So my boyfriend was in a different country. Yeah. So we were hardly ever together, but I was drinking at school. My best memories are with my friend Casia and we, and actually Anne, we had some really fun times, but Kasia and I would leave class after school and we would, this is senior year?
Senior year. Senior year was maybe like the best year of your university experience. Well. Am I being like really unclear about this whole thing? I think it's just like hard because it's a lot, you know? And I wanna make sure that everyone knows the timeline of everything. Yeah. I would say [01:04:00] freshman year eating disorder started, I was in and out.
Yeah. Sophomore year I got really, really skinny. Third year I started to gain weight again 'cause I couldn't hold it down. Yeah. Fourth year I went to see a nutritionist. Yeah. My eating started to get better. Fourth year I started to have more positivity, like I was less depressed. And that's what I mean, like it feels like that would be your best year then at school.
Yeah. Yeah. And I was crushing it. Yeah. Like I was, so it was honestly, senior year was so good because it was like. Really hard and there was a lot of animosity and there was a lot of fighting that went on, but it was such a creative space. Okay. And Cassia and I would leave class and we would just like, go to the liquor store, get a bottle of wine, and then just talk about art.
Yeah. All night. Yeah. And like bitch about things. But we would go to art parties, like we would go Yeah. It was fun. Yeah. And like going out with my friends. Mm-hmm. And like going, going to their, I mean we couldn't go out 'cause we were in America, but, and we were too young. But we'd go to house parties and drink and it was so fun.
Mm-hmm. And then I [01:05:00] started to feel very sad when my friends would leave. I would hate when parties were over. Mm-hmm. When someone started to get their coat, I would start to panic. Mm. Because that meant everyone was gonna start leaving. Right. Then I start, started to throw parties in my own house. Yeah. And I was like, great, I'll bring everyone to me.
And they would leave and I would just sit in my bed and cry. Hmm. I hated it. I felt Would you keep drinking when they left? Yep. So I really was sad the party was over. Yeah. I never wanted the party to end. Yeah. It was so fun to like be amongst my like dancers. Yeah. And alcohol made me feel so confident and fun and loose and it made me feel like I could be the person I always wanted to be.
Yeah. I wanted to just be me and fucking relax and not have all this trauma and bullshit and like insecurity. Yeah. And I just wanted to like be like everybody else and have fun and like work to my potential. Yeah. And I just felt like when I drank I could do that. I mean, [01:06:00] we would like go, my friend Ade and I would go at night and like drink in the studio and dance and like create shit.
Yeah. And it felt so good and it felt freeing and that's probably what you were. Excited to do when you were younger. Like that's the way you wanted to drink. You wanted to drink and have fun like that. Yeah. And that's exactly what you were doing, but it felt like the point. Yeah. That's what it felt like.
Senior year. It was like I, I knew the point of drinking and I was doing it right and it was serving me. Sometimes you'd be a little too hungover, sometimes you'd throw up, but most of the time it felt artistic and it felt cool. You know, so many people, so many, so many alcoholics are creatives. Yeah. And they're like, oh, well I need to be an alcoholic.
To be creative. Like, I need to do this to be artistic. Yeah. And create, and I can't paint if I'm not drunk. I met this really cool woman at the park the other day. Of course, of course. And she's sober, of course. And she was like, yeah. You know, why, [01:07:00] why don't you wanna know what your full potential is? Mm.
When you're drinking all the time, you can't. Yeah. You can't ever hit your full potential, so why don't you wanna know what a hundred percent looks like? Yeah. Interesting. And then I was like, because, uh, because that's terrifying. Yeah. If I give my all and it fucking sucks. Yeah. I don't wanna know that.
Mm-hmm.
So that's kind of how I felt when I moved to New York after Boston, we all kind of moved to New York or LA 'cause you wanna go the dance route. Yeah. You know, New York is very, um, lonely because, you know, it takes an hour to get to anybody. Mm-hmm. No one really wants to hang out with you unless you're somebody and it, it, it just, it was increasingly lonely.
I was anxious. I had a boyfriend in a different country who like was very insecure about the relationship that was tearing me apart. I had a lot of things going on. So what were you doing in New York? I was dancing. You were dancing? I was in like, I was dancing for a few dance companies. Okay. [01:08:00] Um, and what does that mean?
Like they would have stuff going on at their Yeah, so basically company like, honestly, basically what that meant is like one person had an idea and they wanted to create stuff and they would write grants. Mm-hmm. Write for grants from the government and get a little bit of money and then like, pretend to pay us.
Okay. So like I was in a dance company for a year and I got paid $300. Damn. And would you put on shows? Yeah. Yeah. The goal would be like to get into like a massive company that has like funding. Yeah. And then like people come and watch, but that doesn't really happen. Yeah. That's like a big, it's big for like the ballet world.
Yeah. Or like, there's stuff in Israel, but like, it's hard to, I dunno, there's just so many people trying to do the same thing in New York. Yeah. And I just felt so increasingly defeated. Yeah. And I felt like nobody. Were you excited to go to New York to do that though? Like. Yeah. And I felt like I had to.
Yeah. And I, I, I really didn't. You had no other option? No. Yeah. Well, of course I didn't. Where was I gonna go? I literally was like, there's, I'm not gonna stay in [01:09:00] Boston. I don't know anyone in la. I have to go to New York. Yeah. What am I gonna do? Like, I have to go and I wanted to go. I think being in a dance company doing what I loved was supposed to feel so good.
Yeah. Like, were you thinking like, this is the dream? Mm-hmm. Like, I am making it, I'm in New York. This is so fun. I, or this is supposed to be so fun. And you weren't feeling that I couldn't figure out why I was so fucking miserable. Yeah. I didn't wanna do anything. Mm-hmm. I didn't wanna go to class. I would do things like, I would get ready to go to class.
I would walk down to the L or the Q, I'd walk to the Q. I'd get there and I would turn around and go home. I would be so anxious I couldn't even get on the subway. I was like, I can't put myself out here like this. It's, and class was just going to ballet every day. Yeah. Contemporary or whatever. Or like improv.
It was easy. You can just slip in and go. Yeah. But it felt really scary for me to go, like I just felt alone. I felt like I was an imposter. Yeah. I just felt like people [01:10:00] didn't like me. Which for what? I don't know. What's been your past? It's been my whole thing. It's been your whole thing? Yeah. Yeah. I felt like I was like, when I would walk down the street, someone was like holding onto my shoulders and like dragging me from behind.
I would just, or like dragging behind me. That's how I felt. Mm-hmm. All the time.
Hey everyone, Heather popping in here. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. It is a bit long, so we made it a two-parter, and we'll see you back here next Wednesday. Proud of you.
Thanks for listening to Girl Undrunk. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Girl Undrunk Podcast and or send me an email at heather@girlundrunk.com.
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